thebluefrog

A major problem with all 3 movies was Rey’s constant winning and Kylo’s constant losing.

A hero and their journey is only as good as the villain and their antagonism.

Imagine if Obi-Wan had WON the very first lightsaber duel back in 1977.

That would’ve killed Vader’s character from the start.

Kylo’s loss at the end of TFA was the first crack. Then losing against Rey again in Snoke’s room. And then being humiliated by Luke. And then losing again to Rey again 1/2 of the way through Rise. Also, her ability to beat Luke while training didn’t help any character progression either.

Rey had no consistent hero’s journey. Yes, yes, you can make all sorts of arguments about scene x or development y, they’ve been done before–the point is that the growth of the heroic character overcoming obstacles isn’t coherent. Since Kylo was neutered as a threat midway through TLJ, they had to use Palpatine to give her a new challenge, which didn’t thematically fit at all from her starting point.

Splitting the movies into a tv series is something I’ve thought about for the Marvel movies. Could really make a good, cohesive narrative there.

Unfortunately I don’t have the time for such an immense project.

Holdo’s kamikaze scene, while visually great, was not a good addition to the SW lore. Yes, yes, all the arguments have already been made, especially as this kind of overpowered attack would actually win the rebellion.

So…why not make that scene part of the final dogfight battle…and involve Luke.

Maybe something like:

Instead of dying after the Force projection, Luke pulls off the greatest Jedi trick and wipes out the fleet from afar and THEN dies. Proving size means nothing and the Jedi are one with everything, including space. He’s gone beyond sabers and fighting with lasers.

timdiggerm said:

Maybe after Andor there will be enough pre-ANH, live-action Rebellion content to stitch it, Solo, Kenobi, and Rogue One into a movie, but I kind of doubt it. Solo has the problem of being a great prequel but which, in sequence, really comes out of left field. Who are these characters? What do they have to do with…anything??? Rogue One is better in this regard, but still not great (Hey look it’s Bail Organa! Oh he’s gone).

There could be potential to stitch them together a like a tv series.

Star Wars: A Holdo story. That character’s sacrifice really made me interested in seeing more of her backstory.

Also, Star Wars: Nameless Guy In Prison.

BedeHistory731 said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

This finale was so bad… might be the worst piece of sh*t Disney created for the franchise along with TFA and TROS… Deux Grogu Machina is ruining everything again (they don’t even try anymore, just the way it’s moving is insulting to good taste in filmmaking).

I’m so concerned about Kenobi: can they ruin SW any further? 😕

Why don’t you quit if all it does is make you rageful?

You could say that about 75% of the internet.

The series summed up:

click for sound

Maybe the ROS scene could be put into TFA somehow?

Lars was Anakin’s brother to brother in law to stepbrother at various times in “canon.”

RogueLeader said:

I definitely agree with that assessment. It’s like they have a very small fleet, but they invested a lot into it. Arguably it could be seen as a quality over quantity mentality, which the Empire arguably did the opposite with their disposable TIE fighters and such.

If only there was a line where their limitations were brought up. Too bad there weren’t any scenes reminiscent to the Imperial meeting in ANH.

There was; JJ put it in ROS.

After TLJ reduced Hux and the First Order to a comical joke, Admiral Pryde was JJ’s attempt to bring Empire-like imagery back and added Sith cultism. Unfortunately, it was far too little far too late.

The basic problem is that TFA and TLJ had different ideas of what The First Order was.

TFA intended to it set up as a military junta. Leia and her rebel band were supposed to be the only ones in the government taking these space-jungle fanatics seriously. This semi worked; JJ screwed up by not making it clear that Starkiller was designed to take out the Republic so the Order could take over. If the FO had been much more fanatical about The Sith religion, that would’ve made it clearer they were a fringe cult, but still very dangerous. Again, JJ didn’t put ENOUGH details in, which is his common failing. JJ tried to rectify this in Rise, but by then it was far too late.

TLJ did not seem to build off that as much, and indeed Rian seemed to toss any of JJ’s unused ideas away. On screen, the Order in TLJ is pretty much the same as the Empire. A big army chasing the rebels. Are they in charge of the government? Are they all that one fleet chasing the last 3 rebel ships? Is Snoke the new leader of the galactic government? Did it matter that Starkiller was destroyed? Did Holdo just nuke the entire fleet? Does any of that even matter?

Obviously they were afraid of the vocal backlash the prequels got for too many political scenes…but to go from “too many” to “none other than 1 line” was a poor move by all parties.

RogueLeader said:

Either way, you kind of just end the series with an old man’s face getting melted.

Which is a tradition for all 3 trilogies.

G&G-Fan said:

I can see why they didn’t do it, a bit too violent for a Jedi

Where were Mace Windu and Yoda when this lesson was being taught?

ALLEGEDLY, this is how Boba was supposed to die in an earlier draft.

You could probably do a hyper violent death and it’d be popular on youtube, but it’d likely be for comedy reasons.

Perhaps the Star Wars: Galaxy of Adventure footage can be used to make an animated version?

Nice ideas, rogueleader. A scene like that would be immensely popular on youtube, especially as everyone’s looking up Boba Fett scenes.

Why is there no edit of Boba Fett in ROTJ to make his “death” less terrible?

I find it interesting that no fan has done any edit over the past 40 years. Especially now with the Boba interest peaking.

Like, for example, have him at least try to shoot Luke a few times from a distance before just dropping in front of him to be Mace Windued?

Surely over the past 4 decades of video games and commercials and such, there has to be some footage that’s usable.

StarkillerAG said:

thebluefrog said:

Editing Adam Driver’s footage from The Last Duel to make a better Sequel Trilogy.

This is actually a good idea, but there’s no place to put footage editing ideas, so…

All right, you want me to turn that into a bad idea? Here you go:

The footage of Driver talking to that gold-robed guy would be turned into flashbacks, implying that Kylo reached such a high position in the First Order by being Snoke’s personal debt collector. The scene of Driver raping a woman would be inserted near the beginning of TFA, in order to establish how evil Kylo is (like how Plinkett wanted AOTC to include a scene of Dooku killing an innocent person for no reason).

That would’ve made the sequel trilogy a lot more dark, and certainly more interesting.

Editing Adam Driver’s footage from The Last Duel to make a better Sequel Trilogy.

This is actually a good idea, but there’s no place to put footage editing ideas, so…

7 and 8 do not link together. The characters from 7 are not the characters from 8, because both directors had their own interpretations. When people defend 8, they are defending their love of the movie and their parasocial love of Rian, not its cohesiveness in the trilogy or how well it meshes with the other 2 films.

Rey was someone in TFA, Rian decided she was “no one” and then JJ decided she was someone again. There is no way that Rian thought she was a secret Palpatine when he made 8.

Kylo was Vader obsessed in TFA, 4 minutes later in TLJ (in universe time) he isn’t, and ROS he is back to Vader obsessed.

Snoke was a mysterious new emperor in TFA, TLJ said he was a joke nobody, ROS then said he was back to being a mysterious new emperor (clone thing). This is on record that JJ did not expect Rian to kill off the big bad unceremoniously.

This is not saying JJ’s writing is good. This is saying that the two different directors clearly had different visions of what they wanted the characters to be.

fmalover said:

In other words, the problem with the PT was that George Lucas had nobody to reign him in, whilst the ST had the opposite problem, which was that there wasn’t a single creative vision driving the trilogy.

Exactly.

All 3 films were not sequels to each other. This is a failure on all levels, from management/producers to the directors themselves for not having any cohesive communication with each other.

Palpatine’s return would’ve worked better if it had any foreshadowing or logical buildup in either TFA or TLJ.

Since all 3 sequel movies basically aren’t connected to the previous, none of the revelations or plot swerves flow organically.

Regardless of whether you love or hate Rian, TLJ was the speedbump that threw off any narrative flow throughout the trilogy. So, really, whatever ROS came up with, Palp or no Palp, would not have fit.

Mocata said:

thebluefrog said:

Infernal Affairs II
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me

Better Call Saul

These were referenced above–now, I haven’t really watched much of them, but are people saying them because they are good PREQUELS or because they’re just good QUALITY? What did they change about the perception of the original story?

I chose these specifically, and didn’t pick Temple of Doom or The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly for example.

What did they change and impact regarding the original story and characters?

Infernal Affairs II
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me

Better Call Saul

These were referenced above–now, I haven’t really watched much of them, but are people saying them because they are good PREQUELS or because they’re just good QUALITY? What did they change about the perception of the original story?

A good prequel would need to actively change or impact something in the original. Otherwise it’s basically a (good quality) standalone story–it may as well be a sequel. Like the Temple of Doom example, the fact that it’s a prequel changes nothing at all about the Indy 1 character. If it were a sequel, it’d be exactly the same.

An example of a prequel changing the original would be Vader. REGARDLESS of whether you think it was a good or bad change, OT Vader was written and designed to be a menacing, imposing figure. We did not know what his face or personality was as Anakin.

PT Anakin was not written to be menacing or imposing–now, remember, this isn’t about personal like or dislike for the writing or characterization. This is just an example of how a prequel changes the original, because now OT Vader has a face and personality underneath the mask…and I bet PT Anakin was NOT what anyone, anywhere, envisioned what he was like.