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thebluefrog

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29-Sep-2017
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20-Oct-2021
Posts
309

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Post
#1448874
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

7 and 8 do not link together. The characters from 7 are not the characters from 8, because both directors had their own interpretations. When people defend 8, they are defending their love of the movie and their parasocial love of Rian, not its cohesiveness in the trilogy or how well it meshes with the other 2 films.

Rey was someone in TFA, Rian decided she was “no one” and then JJ decided she was someone again. There is no way that Rian thought she was a secret Palpatine when he made 8.

Kylo was Vader obsessed in TFA, 4 minutes later in TLJ (in universe time) he isn’t, and ROS he is back to Vader obsessed.

Snoke was a mysterious new emperor in TFA, TLJ said he was a joke nobody, ROS then said he was back to being a mysterious new emperor (clone thing). This is on record that JJ did not expect Rian to kill off the big bad unceremoniously.

This is not saying JJ’s writing is good. This is saying that the two different directors clearly had different visions of what they wanted the characters to be.

Post
#1448719
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

fmalover said:

In other words, the problem with the PT was that George Lucas had nobody to reign him in, whilst the ST had the opposite problem, which was that there wasn’t a single creative vision driving the trilogy.

Exactly.

All 3 films were not sequels to each other. This is a failure on all levels, from management/producers to the directors themselves for not having any cohesive communication with each other.

Post
#1448509
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread
Time

Palpatine’s return would’ve worked better if it had any foreshadowing or logical buildup in either TFA or TLJ.

Since all 3 sequel movies basically aren’t connected to the previous, none of the revelations or plot swerves flow organically.

Regardless of whether you love or hate Rian, TLJ was the speedbump that threw off any narrative flow throughout the trilogy. So, really, whatever ROS came up with, Palp or no Palp, would not have fit.

Post
#1448283
Topic
Why Rogue One doesn't work well as a prequel to Star Wars
Time

Mocata said:

thebluefrog said:

Infernal Affairs II
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me

Better Call Saul

These were referenced above–now, I haven’t really watched much of them, but are people saying them because they are good PREQUELS or because they’re just good QUALITY? What did they change about the perception of the original story?

I chose these specifically, and didn’t pick Temple of Doom or The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly for example.

What did they change and impact regarding the original story and characters?

Post
#1448190
Topic
Why Rogue One doesn't work well as a prequel to Star Wars
Time

Infernal Affairs II
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me

Better Call Saul

These were referenced above–now, I haven’t really watched much of them, but are people saying them because they are good PREQUELS or because they’re just good QUALITY? What did they change about the perception of the original story?

A good prequel would need to actively change or impact something in the original. Otherwise it’s basically a (good quality) standalone story–it may as well be a sequel. Like the Temple of Doom example, the fact that it’s a prequel changes nothing at all about the Indy 1 character. If it were a sequel, it’d be exactly the same.

An example of a prequel changing the original would be Vader. REGARDLESS of whether you think it was a good or bad change, OT Vader was written and designed to be a menacing, imposing figure. We did not know what his face or personality was as Anakin.

PT Anakin was not written to be menacing or imposing–now, remember, this isn’t about personal like or dislike for the writing or characterization. This is just an example of how a prequel changes the original, because now OT Vader has a face and personality underneath the mask…and I bet PT Anakin was NOT what anyone, anywhere, envisioned what he was like.

Post
#1448131
Topic
Why Rogue One doesn't work well as a prequel to Star Wars
Time

NeverarGreat said:

thebluefrog said:

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

Temple of Doom.

Does that really have any impact at all on the original? Does it change anything about the storyline or characters in Indy 1?

Temple of Doom may be a good MOVIE, but does it actually have any relevance as a prequel? Could it be a sequel and change nothing?

Post
#1447366
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

fmalover said:

As bad as the prequels are, despite the overuse of CGI, and having a baroque aesthetic which contrasts with the utilitarian aesthetic of the OT, they still feel part of the SW universe.

That seems to be a general consensus. As bad as the prequels were, they still feel like part of a cohesive narrative.

The sequels are disjointed with each other, much less the rest of the story.

Post
#1447256
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

Servii said:
Then came TLJ. Over the two-year gap, my state of mind about Star Wars veered near complete apathy. I couldn’t bring myself to care, and I thought Star Wars just wasn’t for me anymore, but I still planned on seeing the movie, partly out of curiosity, partly out of a lingering sense of obligation. I had heard beforehand a couple vague rumors about some controversy over a thing Mark Hamill said in an interview about Luke. I went into the movie with low expectations, but still a little hopeful that the story was heading in a worthwhile direction.

I left the theater depressed.

Stardust1138 said:

As it stands I feel lots of apathy because the story I grew attached to feels incomplete and like it’s missing important pieces to the puzzle.

Apathy–there’s the deadly word in art. When you don’t feel anything for the characters, it’s a death sentence for the story. You guys mention it, and it’s a microcosm of the problem for most of the audience.

No one felt anything for the new characters after TFA. They just weren’t interesting or compelling. The hero is only as good as the villains–and the villains were terrible in the sequel trilogy. They were reduced to jokes–or, worse, boring.

Some people mentioned Poe mouthing off to Kylo as a bad start. That’s very true, but it could’ve been salvageable with the right character development post-TFA. Han mouths off to Imperials but suffers for it often, climaxing in Vader capturing him and freezing him. However, TLJ and ROS both made Kylo ineffectual and weak–he loses every fight with Rey. That’s not an interesting or threatening villain.

Hux, Phasma, Snoke, Pryde–who cares about any of them? They never seriously hurt the heroes and die as jokes. Snoke’s final scene is him cartoonishly lying there like Jar Jar, tongue hanging out and all. Hux gets slapped around by everyone INCLUDING the comic relief character Finn. Phasma does nothing memorable at all.

Vader was a threat. Darth Maul was a threat. Palpatine was a threat. There’s a reason why everyone remembers those characters, because Lucas knew how to write the most basic requirements of the hero’s journey: the villain has to be a credible challenge to be overcome.

Since nothing permanently bad happens to Rey or Finn or Poe, there’s no emotional engagement, so no one cares about them.

Apathy.

Post
#1447094
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

The disjointed nature of the three films proves they needed ONE director and ONE writer for all 3.

TLJ was not a sequel to TFA, and ROS was not a sequel to TLJ.

JJ and Rian wanted their own interpretations of the characters that clashed with the previous.

Kathleen Kennedy failed as a leader by assigning the duties to multiple people.

Bob Iger failed by forcing the rushed 1 Star Wars film per year rule.

Nothing was special or unique about the writing. None of the new characters will be remembered in 2040 with the possible exception of Kylo, whose TFA potential was squandered.

Disappointing on all levels by everyone involved, and they likely will not be remembered as classics or groundbreaking moments in film history.

Post
#1429887
Topic
Deepfake Ideas - Index and Discussion
Time

EddieDean said:

thebluefrog said:

  1. I think it’d be a good idea to make a list of potential deepfake SOURCES. Other movies, games, audiobooks, interviews, etc. That would be a valuable resource for project makers to come visit the thread.

Very valuable idea. I’m happy to maintain the index, but I don’t have the time to actively hunt that all down myself. But anything that’s dropped into this thread, I’ll arrange and present in a sensible way. If it starts to get complex I’ll gladly convert it all into a spreadsheet or some other sensible reference format.

Well, just for starters, I’d say a good useful list of sources would include:

Voice clips:
-Video games. Checking the credits will show who voiced who. Let’s Play videos would be a good source.
-Audiobooks, especially if an actor reads them.
-Cartoons where the actors appear, such as Carrie Fisher or Mark Hamill.
-Youtube/online, such as Disney’s Star Wars Kids, which has actors reprise their roles. This one is good for secondary characters like Rose.
-Interviews. Often an actor will drop into character and do “the voice”, such as James Earl Jones.
-Promos and commercials: Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford did rare commercials back in the 80s. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThGdJ9kfUw4&feature=youtu.be

Video clips:
-Deleted scenes, obviously.
-Making-of documentaries, which often have alternate camera angles.
-Commercials that sometimes use longer footage.
-Video game cutscenes, which can be movie quality.
-Footage from other movies, especially if they do sci-fi.
-Interviews. While they wouldn’t be in costume, their facial expressions could be used for deepfakes. I have an idea that Finn COULD be deepfaked by using footage of Boyega protesting in real life.
-Social media of the actors. Sometimes they put good quality personal vids, which again can be used for deepfake coding.

If the community works together, we could create a list just by randomly noticing things online in our daily internet browsing. “Hey, that could be useful to someone!” Then all we need is a thread for people to regularly drop links into easily.

Post
#1428469
Topic
Deepfake Ideas - Index and Discussion
Time

Great thread, EddieDean!

  1. I think it’d be a good idea to make a list of potential deepfake SOURCES. Other movies, games, audiobooks, interviews, etc. That would be a valuable resource for project makers to come visit the thread.

  2. Any deepfake artists think it’s possible to ever do Chewbacca over another monster? Such as, say, an ape from a movie like Kong, or a werewolf, etc?

Post
#1426792
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

David__B said:

After reading the comic, I don’t think it confirms Snoke is a canon version of Luuke.
It certainly implies something will be made with that hand later on, but whether that’s Snoke or something else is unclear.

The comic takes place shortly after ESB, so those fully grown Snoke-like creatures (strandcasts?) being already so big and conscious after, like, a week (?) seems a bit far-fetched. Palpatine was probably already at it before he got the hand, then took it for other purposes.

I suspect, regardless of the comic, Mandolorian will eventually just explain Snoke as a genetic failsafe experiment from Palpatine’s will. Some Empire admiral will be enacting it as part of his “If I die” orders.

Post
#1426721
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

EddieDean said:

Whoah.

Edit: Wait, hang on. We know the Sequel trilogy often had names which were directly related to other characters.

Kylo = Skywalker + Solo.

So how about this:
It’s not Luke
It 's not Luke
‘S no’ ke
Snoke

Too much of a stretch? That ‘ke’ at the end there is suspicious either way.

And damn, if there was one person Palpatine would want to clone into a servant, it’d be Luke…

Wookiee
Wo ke
Ke Wo
E Wok
Ewok

IT ALL MAKES SENSE.

Post
#1424994
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

If there was a way to turn Luke’s exile into Kylo’s exile, that’d be more thematically fitting an ending.

Kylo dying was trite and cliche and also completely predictable given that it was Disney. But having him alive, alone, living forever with his crimes…that’s more interesting a fate.

You’d have to re-edit TLJ and ROS heavily, though. Massive undertaking, would require a lot of deepfake skill to change Hamill to Driver.

Post
#1418732
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Movies Remastered said:
Does Kylo really mention his grandfather after TFA? I use his fight to kill Vader in my cut so not sure if it should be more of a Palpatine speech, Vader speech or kylo just doing something before opening the chest?

He doesn’t mention his grandfather much at all, actually. Which, now that it’s pointed out, is a bit weird, and probably contributed to the slightly disjointed nature of the sequel trilogy. In-Universe, the timeline is really broken: When fighting Rey, he’s obsessed with the Skywalker legacy being his life’s purpose…10 minutes later he’s smashing it up. It’s as if TLJ Kylo is not the same character as TFA Kylo when viewed as a whole narrative.

If one were to restructure the entire sequel trilogy better, the helmet smashing would be far better 1/2 through Rise.

Post
#1416791
Topic
Star Wars Episode IX (was) to be directed by Colin Trevorrow - DUEL OF THE FATES RIP
Time

oojason said:

Fan Turns Colin Trevorrow’s Leaked Star Wars Episode 9 Script Into a Comic’:-

https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-episode-9-colin-trevorrow-script-turned-into-fan-comic
 

The link to the actual fan-made comic adaptation (Issues 2-6) : http://awinegarner.squarespace.com/duel-of-the-fates

 

Unfortunately, he’s clearly tracing movie stills, and it’s very distracting when artists do that. Especially when you recognize scenes.

Wish they wouldn’t do that, it degrades the quality of the artform in all ways.

Post
#1409404
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I actually had an idea for remaking TFA to completely 100% change Luke’s character to be actively involved with the New Republic. There’s footage that’s usable with him interacting on ships in space. Which would mean no exile…or at least not in the same way.

This would cause a domino effect that would require a lot of editing of all 3 films…but I think it’s doable.

Alternatively, I think making “Episode 6.5” is also doable, showing him before Kylo snaps.

Post
#1409037
Topic
Your ideal Star Wars Sequel Trilogy
Time

theprequelsrule said:

ThatPixarGuy said:

I mean with Lucas out of the picture, does anyone really care what the “true” canon is anymore?

In fairness, Pablo did say JJ contacted him regularly to check certain plot points. JJ is a shallow and poor writer, but he did at least seem to try. Even if he did muck up Rise in the end with his random rushed ideas, though part of that was the studio pressure.

Rian, who is a somewhat better writer, seemed to think his version of canon was BETTER than what those other nerds thought, so he just made up his own thing, regardless of whether it actually fit. See: Hyperspace ramming, which now changes the entire war now that one person can take out 30 ships. Why bother with weapons anymore? Just Holdo over and over until it works, it’s easier than actually shooting.

And then at the top, Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy don’t care either. Both have shown they are creatively bankrupt and don’t remotely care about the characterizations or plot. Bob even admitted his “1 movie a year” approach damaged the brand, and KK clearly had some sort of self-insert fantasy that Rian gave to her with Holdo.

Post
#1407531
Topic
George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy
Time

PressFireToPlay said:

Shows a little promise with the aspect of there being a power vacuum but you can already see the warning signs “I don’t want any human characters to get killed”

Also it is evident he did not understand the little things, the snippets of Nostalgia that appealed to us, the generation that made Star Wars successful.

The Sequels got things off amazingly well with TFA, completion opposite to the shallow prequels with obvious green screen backgrounds (although Hal’s re-edit of TPM showed there is a good film there in Episode 1), but why Rian Johnson ballsed things up with a bizaare story of spaceships going ‘just about fast enough’ to stay out of target and whilst that’s going on, lets have other characters leaving the ship and going on a merry adventure. Bizarre they even green lit his idea!

Agreed. Some critics complain that TFA had too many mystery boxes with no idea how to resolve them…but that’s what you WANT with part 1 of a new trilogy that needs to get people’s interest. Everyone was speculating on Rey’s parentage or what Luke was up to or who Snoke was…and that’s good. You want the audience invested. The fact that JJ had no idea what to do is not a bad thing in the sense that they had 2 more films to get a good writer to tie up the plotlines. Rian’s “unexpectedly throw them all away” answers were not good for part 2 of a trilogy OR part 8 of a bigger narrative–it’s as if Rian childishly wanted to make his own trilogy and thus forced the narrative to start over with his own version of the sandbox.