theMaestro

MusicallyInspired said:

Interesting that it’s the 1997 SE artwork but not the Drew Struzan painted version. Those are collaged photos (except they used an alternate shot of Leia from ESB for some reason).

Yeah they sort of did that for most of the movies around that time. They would roughly try to capture the essence of the Struzan artwork by using actual images. Sometimes the head positions would be different, but they tried to get the gist of it.

TPM poster: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0630/8509/products/flat2228starw_grande.jpg?v=1469549959
TPM VHS: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ed/8d/e2/ed8de234bc71ebe921c0d6d8c8d8a475--vhs-movie-vhs-tapes.jpg

ROTS poster: http://www.thecine.es/1784-2133-large_liquid/cuadro-star-wars-episodio-iii-la-venganza-de-los-sith-cartel.jpg
ROTS DVD: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RHXMVH9YL.jpg

ANH SE poster: https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/50048/1000953176/original/a-new-hope-special-edition-poster-photo-u1?w=650&q=50&fm=jpg&fit=crop&crop=faces
ANH SE VHS from 2000: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/8/88/Ep4.png/revision/latest?cb=20060713202042

TESB SE poster: http://www.screenused.com/images/posters/14275_1.jpg
TESB SE VHS from 2000: http://swonvideo.com/vhs/imageslarge/vtrilogyboxuk2000esbfront.jpg

ROTJ SE poster: http://www.screenused.com/images/posters/14274_1.jpg
ROTJ SE VHS from 2000: http://vhscollector.com/sites/default/files/vhscovers/box_front/star-wars-vi-return-jedi-vhs-1-28433.jpg

AOTC was the only one whose VHS/DVD cover did not even look close to the theatrical poster. Then there was the 2006 GOUT release, where they followed a similar philosophy, except that the image collages were made to look like the original theatrical posters; and their back covers had the actual theatrical posters for comparison.

It’s the 2000 VHS re-release of the Special Editions which have that short behind-the-scenes thing for Episode II.

So in your theatrical AOTC audio, does Padme have that awkward line dub where she robotically says “Yes” after the clone trooper asks if she’s okay (later changed to “Mmm hmm” on home releases)? There was a DVD website that mentioned this and gave an audio clip but I wasn’t sure if it was on every single theatrical version.

Mike tends to refer to his efforts with words like “we” and “our”. Does he collaborate or make his pitch with another person?

Huh. Pablo (in his latest tweets), is now overtly implying that it’s George who is preventing the OOT release. Wow.

He writes, “There’s one pretty noteworthy person who doesn’t want them released. Shouldn’t be too hard to research who that is.” (https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/941382975853281281).

I had a question about color spaces. Basically I’ve noticed that the colors can look slightly different depending on which “Working Space” is selected in Color Management under After Effects’ Project Settings. So which working space should I select (e.g. SI RGB, sRGB, etc.) so that the post-LUT colors there look like they do in Dr Dre’s program (when you build the color matching model)? Also, does it matter which program you use to take the reference & test screenshots? I’ve been using VLC to do this (and then editing in GIMP to align them properly), but I’m not sure if there’s some better way.

Anakin Starkiller said:
I’m not saying the Hayden ghost is perfect. It’s just the less wrong option.

No it’s not. It’s the most wrong option. Makes no sense given that the ghosts around him are the age at which they died. And makes no sense symbolically either to have the ghost be someone who cannot even be considered a good person.

Regarding the argument that the “Shaw ghost never existed”, well…the Hayden ghost never existed in that specific form either. He clearly has both arms intact when one should be missing (and yes, both hands are visible in the wide shot). So if the Hayden ghost is okay from that standpoint, then so is the Shaw ghost. Therefore, the “Shaw ghost never existed” argument is no longer valid.

So since we’ve now established this, we can look towards other factors. The Hayden ghost symbolizes regression back to an unstable man who had already begun his descent to the dark side (had murdered an entire village, including women & children). The Shaw ghost, on the other hand, symbolizes growth and shows that Anakin has learned from his past mistakes to truly become a good person in the end. That, and he is the same person (albeit with healed injuries) that Luke just saw behind the mask. So the Shaw ghost makes far more sense, even with the prequels. The only thing the Hayden ghost has going is familiarity with those who like the prequels or saw them first. It was a way to connect the trilogies that doesn’t actually make much sense when you really think about it.

It doesn’t. There was some extra CG moss added to the roofs on Kashyyyk (the wookie planet) and some different voiceover effects when the clones descend from the ropes in Utapau (where Obi-Wan fights Grievous).

Hmm good idea! I’ll try that. Thanks for the help and for making the program to begin with!

DrDre said:

In principle more spaces will result in a better color match, but it’s possible if artifacts appear early on, they may get worse with each iteration. In that case increasing the smoothing parameter will prevent such artifacts.

Here’s the thing. I actually set it at 100 color spaces and the smoothing parameter to .98 (yes you saw that correctly haha). In the program itself, I’m satisfied with how the frame looks after the color correction model is built. But when I’m actually inspecting the video after the LUT has been applied, there are sometimes glitchy areas whenever there’s something shiny in the video. I’ll show you some pictures so you see what I mean. I’ll zoom in on the areas of interest in the frames.

Uncorrected:

Corrected with LUT 1 (better LUT overall, but causes glitchy spots, as you can see in the shiny areas):

Corrected with LUT 2 (not as good as LUT 1, but doesn’t glitch out the shiny areas):

One workaround that sometimes works is to re-build the color correction model & LUT but with fast processing. However, this sometimes makes After Effects not even accept the LUT, so it doesn’t always work. What I’m wondering, though, is: why does this even happen, and what can I do to prevent it? (I’m making sure that my test & reference frames are as closely cropped as possible).

Just wondering, is there ever such a thing as setting the “color spaces” value too high? Like if I’m working with DVD footage, would a LUT that was generated with 100 color spaces potentially causes some glitching in the video (because DVD source video may not have that many color spaces to work with)? And if this is true, then is there some kind of standard cut-off for color spaces that can be used for DVD video vs. Blu-ray video vs. 4k film scans?

Williarob said:

Dre, if you are planning to make some improvements… a way to batch jobs would be really useful. For example, if we could select a test folder (instead of just a file) and a reference folder then have it cycle through, taking the first file in the test folder, matching it to the first file in the reference folder and generate a LUT for each pair before moving on the the next pair.

Sure, it could take hours to run, but you could color match every shot in a reel automatically, and not have to sit there watching it, waiting to select the next pair of files. Just run it before you go to bed, and apply the LUTs in the morning.

This would be a brilliant upgrade and would truly elevate the tool’s efficiency. Of course, the tool is already amazing, so this would just be icing on the cake.

Is there a way to take a 5.1 mix and decode & create separate audio tracks for voices, sound fx, and music?

SilverWook said:
George’s own words have been used a few times before, so I was avoiding rehashing them here. And with his strained relationship with the mouse, I wasn’t sure it was a good idea to invoke it now.
How about “Even though they have become difficult to see, these original versions continue to inspire a new generation of fans.”?

Yeah that works. I just want to make sure that Disney/LFL don’t get the wrong idea that the OOT is only important for the older folks. Because as sentimental as your draft is, if we look at it from a corporation’s point of view, do they really want to focus their efforts on the past/older fans, or on ways to appeal to as many people as possible? I think it’s the latter, so if you add in a line about the newer generation as well as a line about our cultural heritage, it would frame the overall scenario as something that needs to be done for the benefit of everyone. And if the Disney execs see this as something that can make them look like absolute heroes to everyone, then I think they’ll be more inclined to do it (not because they’re actually heroes, but rather because looking like heroes would garner more goodwill, and more goodwill = more loyal customers = more $$).

I like the letter. My only concern is that it seems to be implying that only the people who grew up with the OOT in the 70s and 80s are passionate about seeing a new restoration. As if the only reason a restoration should be done is for the sentimental satisfaction of the aging fanbase. I think it would actually be of benefit to broaden the scope a bit.

Maybe you could mention how even a lot of newer fans are passionate about these hugely important movies. Personally speaking, I grew up in the 90s and associate almost every single version of the OT with my childhood (besides the 2011 versions). Despite that, I still want the OOT released because…well, those are the actual movies. There’s an authenticity to those original films that’s simply lost when you watch any subsequent version. It’s really hard to appreciate the special editions on any contextual level because they’re a mishmash of various ideas & film-making technology that spans 4 decades. Like you can’t watch the 2011 version and marvel at what Lucas was able to accomplish with his low budget (for the kind of movie he was making) and 1970s special effects.

These two quotes by George Lucas are quite relevant here:

1.) Talking about colorizing The Three Stooges, he says “Would color distract from their comedy and make it not as funny anymore? Maybe just the fact that they’re in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. By putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was. But you try to make it in full, living color and try to compare it to a Jim Carrey movie, then it’s hard for young people to understand.”

2.) “As a filmmaker and a lover of cinema, I have always appreciated the many disciplines that go into making a film-- the props, the costumes, all the aspects that come together to make the whole as great as the sum of its parts. I have archived all the important pieces from my own films, and I am a staunch believer that it’s important that we all make an effort to preserve our cinematic heritage-- before it’s too late.”

Nah, they wouldn’t actively seek out an OOT site and then feign interest in it just to “fit in”.

At least it shows that people of all ages are interested in the OOT.

That clip looks great! Less grain than I expected (was there noise reduction applied?)

I think it also has something to do with the surrounding elements and length of shot. The TPM scene is pretty short and Jabba doesn’t really interact with too many physical things (if any). But in ANH, Jabba has numerous closeups, is poorly lit, and it’s very obvious that it sticks out from its surroundings. Additionally, it was done in such a way that Han often isn’t even looking at it when he’s talking:

I don’t think the Han/Greedo scene ruins Han’s character since it’s not like Han is waiting around for Greedo to shoot before he even considers shooting. Instead, Han shoots only a split second after Greedo, which shows that his self-preserving instincts are still intact from the original version.

That being said, it is still a very stupid scene because Han’s instincts were too slow and it’s ultimately luck that saves him (Greedo missing) rather than his aforementioned instincts. So it ends up being a stupid-looking change with an awkward head dodge (that wasn’t even necessary since Greedo’s shot was still wide) with no real impact on Han’s character other than learning that luck saves him more than his instincts.

For me though, the worst SE change is Vader’s “Noooooo!” in ROTJ. It completely ruins the film’s climax and injects unintentional humor into what was previously an emotional moment.

poita said:
[brilliant post]

This is truly astounding and helps us get a better sense of what Legacy is doing: grain removal whilst gaining detail. If Legacy doesn’t get an official release (though hopefully it does) I hope some of the projects here eventually evolve to this point. Although I do realize how time-consuming it would be to have pixel-perfect image alignment so that dream is probably way off in the distant future.

Not all changes are bad. Some of the VFX in the Battle of Yavin SE were nice to look at. I even like the Victory Celebration music over Yub Nub.

As for the Emperor in TESB? I’d take the original any day over the 2004/2011 version. And that’s not nostalgia talking (it’s just a different system of values, which I’ll try to explain). Because for me, continuity is a binary: either it works or it doesn’t work. And neither the original nor the 2004/2011 version work for continuity since the original is a different actor than in ROTJ and the 2004/2011 Emperor is the ROTS version rather than the ROTJ version. So given that, I’d take the original any day because I’d at least be watching the actual movie.

Having said that, I do quite like Adywan’s version. If that were the one used for the 2004 & 2011 releases, then it would be my favorite for continuity. But it’s not. What we got instead was an alteration that didn’t have enough effort put into it to justify its existence (IMO). It was ultimately a half-measure; and I hate half-measures. Either do it 100% right, or don’t do it at all. So for that reason, I prefer the original over the 2004/2011 version (but I would prefer Adywan’s if that were on the SE).

Yeah I’d love to stay updated on this too if it becomes private.

Harmy said:

If you mean the COMING SOON thing, that’s been there for years. I was thinking though, that if the presentation has indeed happened and the Disney execs agreed, they’d probably want to announce it on their own terms, so Mike may have had to sign a nondisclosure agreement and may be throwing misdirects at us now 😃

Read his post on the Legacy forums for more info. I think he’s being honest in those posts.