pleasehello

It’s hilariously ironic that George Lucas originally conceived of Star Wars as a throwback to the old movie adventure serials, and then criticizes TFA for being a throwback to the Original Trilogy (a throwback of a throwback).

Yes, visually TFA is extremely similar to the Original Trilogy (maybe too similar), but visual distinctiveness by itself does not make a good movie, which George always seems to be implying. For all the visual distinctiveness and new digital technologies used to make the Prequels, they’re not even close to being as engaging as TFA.

Broom Kid said:

It seems like the last couple weeks have essentially gotten us to a pretty solid place in terms of basic plotting and motivation for the movie.

The most intriguing thing to me, honestly, is the idea that the movie might not start with the main title and scroll, but a flashback following the “A long time ago” card, and then smash cut to the main title at the end of the flashback, like Rogue One.

Interesting idea. I wouldn’t bet on it (nor would I bet on anything in the so-called “plot leaks”), but that might be cool if done well.

Though I can hear the entire theater audience’s audibly confused utterance of “what?!” when that happens and it’s annoying me already.

StarkillerAG said:

Yes, TLJ is postmodern. But does that mean it’s bad? I actually felt like the postmodern attitude of TLJ was a nice change of pace, especially after the boring corporate nostalgia bait that was TFA.

I thought the postmodern aspects of TLJ were interesting departure, but it certainly was jarring on first viewing. No other Star Wars movie is really self-analytical like TLJ, so if you’re not interested in that I can see not liking the movie very much.

Again, my problem with TLJ is that it calls into question the good and evil paradigm that has been perpetuated throughout all the SW movies which is cool (“Good guys. Bad guys. Just made up words.”), but at the end of the movie we’re just back to good guys vs. bad guys.

Could you post a few before and after comparisons?

act on instinct said:

I liked a few things, namely the scope. Felt like that grandeur has been missing after all the emphasis on real sets and practical effects, I want the huge CGI festival or whatever that was, make the worlds big and spectacular again it’s 2019 nobody cares anymore as long as it’s not cg faces. If TRoS is to be a grand finale I want it to be big.

I care. Bigger is not necessarily better. In my opinion, the simple imagery of the single Star Destroyer flyover at the beginning of Star Wars is grander and more intimidating that 100 Star Destroyers in a lightning storm.

Obviously it’s going to be a big finale, but the overuse of big bombastic effects whether CGI or otherwise becomes boring really quickly.

Mocata said:

The scene with a hundred OT Star Destroyers is weird. Is that also a vision?

I think it’d be awesome if ghost Palpatine created a ghost fleet of Star Destroyers. Don’t know how that would fit into the movie, but whatever.

Mocata said:

This is official? It looks like a fan poster with some videogame art of Palpatine slapped on.

I was going to say the same thing. Palpatine’s face looks like it’s from a PS2-era prerendered cinematic. Not great.

phoenixobia said:

Yes, there should be other changes in the 3D. The opening scene was an example that only exists in the 3D that I noticed. See the images I created for comparison https://fil.email/7x4LPwUf

They got rid of the shallow depth of field effect so that the tree isn’t blurry as it’s popping out of the screen right into your face.

Retroactively converting movies to 3D is one of the dumbest things.

StarkillerAG said:

pleasehello said:

Each Bond film is the exact same movie, but the series has established that formula pretty well. Schlocky action, cheesy one-liners and a general feeling that it should not be taken seriously. Audiences go in knowing and expecting that.

You could say the same thing about the MCU.

You could. The Marvel formula is pretty well established at this point. But I don’t think the brand sees or markets it’s movies that way. I also don’t think the general movie going public sees the MCU movies that way or else there would be no appetite for them anymore with 3 or 4 of them every year.

The supply and demand for Bond is a lot lower because I think most people recognize that all of the movies are the same.

Getting back on topic a little bit, it’s possible that interest is waning in Star Wars films because the public is recognizing that the new movies are afraid to be different and keep retreading the same already well-trodden ground.

The MCU movies (with rare exceptions) are incredibly formulaic and played-out, which is why I don’t care for them at all. Ostensibly each superhero’s story should be distinct from the others, but in practice they’re mostly the same.

Bond is a different animal, I think. Each Bond film is the exact same movie, but the series has established that formula pretty well. Schlocky action, cheesy one-liners and a general feeling that it should not be taken seriously. Audiences go in knowing and expecting that.

Try ripping the official bluray with MakeMKV then convert to mt2s with TSMuxer for import into Premiere or whatever. That has never not worked for me.

DrDre said:

Why not? RJ chose to have Rey come to the Resistance’s rescue, and have her react like this:

This is what I mean with a lack of consequences. It’s all a matter of buildup, and cinsistent tone. If you want what has happened to her to resonate with the viewer, it should resonate with the character.

This is one of the things that bothers me most about TLJ. In the scene previous to the Krait battle she faces the harsh reality that her parents are bums who don’t care about her. Then she fails to turn Kylo Ren. Technically she has seen failure (all the characters in TLJ do), but there aren’t really any personal or emotional consequences for her or any of the characters at the end of the movie. Every character the audience could care about lives, and they all seem quite happy in that group photo at the end.

DominicCobb said:

For instance, the worst part of TFA (in my opinion) is the inclusion of Starkiller Base, not simply because it is a repeat of the Death Star, but because it is only really in the film to repeat the Death Star, and thus feels inorganic to the rest of the story - whereas other repeated elements fit far better and serve a more justifiable purpose in this narrative and actually work in the film’s favor.

Absolutely agree. The only purpose Star Killer Base serves is a big, flashy battle sequence at the end of the movie, which is a piss poor justification for its existence.

The original Death Star battle works well because it is a defining moment for the main protagonist. It brings Luke’s character arc to completion. The Return of the Jedi Death Star battle works not as well because the fighters are ancillary characters whom the story is not about, but is still symbolic of the Rebellion’s decisive and final victory against the Empire. The Star Killer battle has neither of these things and has almost no reason to exist and honestly the movie could be just as effective without it.

Rodney-2187 said:

SilverWook said:

Rodney-2187 said:

I think Star Wars is doing great. I’d say Lucas did more butchering with the the Holiday Special, Ewok Movies, special editions, and prequels, but Star Wars is still going. I love it as much as I ever did.

The level of Lucas’ involvement with the HS is questionable at best. And the Ewok movies are squarely aimed at kids in spite of Battle For Endor rivaling Alien 3 in some respects. 😉

Still, it’s all Star Wars. It just seems people talk about the Original Trilogy as some sort of sacred era of perfection before Disney came along and made all of this other stuff they don’t like. It’s as if they have deleted the Holiday Special, two Ewok movies, Ewok animated series, and Droids animated series all from their memories. Star Wars has always been about more than just the main saga movies, and The Last Jedi isn’t the first piece of Star Wars that some people haven’t liked.

I can sympathize though. I know where they’re coming from. Disney owns Star Wars and they don’t see an end to the current style of movies. I thought the same thing during the prequels. People come and go and someone else will inevitably be in charge of new Star Wars movies. Hopefully those will be more to their liking, but I don’t think Star Wars has been ruined, nor is it ending anytime soon.

The Holiday Special and made-for-tv Ewok movies aren’t really comparable to a big tent-pole movie that’s part of the main Star Wars saga. It’s not the first piece of Star Wars content that people haven’t liked, but it’s one of the biggest.

I agree though, that Star Wars isn’t ending any time soon. Enthusiasm has waned since TFA for sure, but there’s obviously still a huge market. Star Wars survived the prequels and will definitely keep going after the sequel trilogy.

Rodney-2187 said:

pleasehello said:

Rodney-2187 said:

Is everyone pretty much thinking the same thing then? ($700,000,000 domestic/$1.4 worldwide) I haven’t seen too many predictions far outside of those numbers.

The Force Awakens opening weekend was $247,966,675 and The Last Jedi opened with $220,009,584, so I would expect The Rise of Skywalker to at least open around $230,000,000.

I’m definitely predicting less than The Last Jedi. I really think a lot of people were turned off by it and don’t feel the need to see final installment.

Are you going to see it?

Most definitely. I quite liked The Last Jedi on repeat viewing, even loved certain parts. But I have a few friends who hated it for legitimate reasons and who just don’t care to see IX.

Even I am much less excited to see IX than I was to see The Last Jedi. As interesting as parts of TLJ are I don’t think Rian Johnson left much to anticipate. TLJ really felt like an ending with all of our characters reunited, stories sort of completed (except maybe for Kylo Ren). Especially the symbolism of the epilogue with the little slave children felt like this chapter of the saga has come to a close.

Not every middle chapter has to have a big cliffhanger ending, but TLJ needed some sort of business that was left unfinished. Something more immediate and personal than “Rebels are still fighting the First Order” which technically is unfinished business, but is not really all that compelling.

All this to say that I expect a smaller turnout for episode IX.

Rodney-2187 said:

Is everyone pretty much thinking the same thing then? ($700,000,000 domestic/$1.4 worldwide) I haven’t seen too many predictions far outside of those numbers.

The Force Awakens opening weekend was $247,966,675 and The Last Jedi opened with $220,009,584, so I would expect The Rise of Skywalker to at least open around $230,000,000.

I’m definitely predicting less than The Last Jedi. I really think a lot of people were turned off by it and don’t feel the need to see final installment.

I mean the details and context are different, but the major plot points in TFA borrow a ton from Star Wars.

-Droid has crucial information that needs to be delivered to Rebellion which is also be relentlessly pursued by the Empire

-Droid finds its way into the custody of our main character, the catalyst which starts the protagonists adventure.

-Protagonist meets an older, wiser “father figure” who used to be involved in with the rebellion, who upon learning of the information contained within the droid offers to help deliver to the rebellion.

-Protagonists learn of the existence of a planet-killing superweapon that poses great threat.

-A covert rescue operation is attempted inside the superweapon in which older “father figure” is killed followed by an Rebel assault on the super weapon(in TFA these things happen simultaneously)

There are a ton of story and character differences of course in TFA which I think makes it distinct enough to stand on its own. Plus the climactic saber battle and the ending with Luke on the island set the ending apart as well. But for a good majority of the movie, the narrative thrust which gets our characters from point A to B to C are driven by the same sort of plot devices as in Star Wars. The movie is derivative, but I think is saved in the characters and the details.

OutboundFlight said:

I wish - we need more time with these characters - but like rogueleader said, there marketing is clearly showing it as “the end”.

Until the SST in 10 years, of course.

I’m ready for it to be over. Plus I don’t think the ST has earned a two-part finale. Episode VIII already had a finality to it, not leaving too many loose ends. I think it would be the height of egotism for J.J. and Lucasfilm to decide that the final chapter (which plot-wise starts basically from scratch) is worthy of two films.

Valheru_84 said:

If the leak in this article has any validity then it sounds like TROS will be the third ST movie to continue with the soft reboot / remake in repeating and reusing many plot points and elements from the OT, in particular ROTJ for what this article talks about which is essentially ANOTHER Death Star but as a ship this time (still thats going on four! Or FIVE if you’re just talking about the use of “Death Star tech”) that can at the least take out whole continents or possibly even up to whole planets again as it reportedly has the same power level of the first DS.

Apparently it even has a trench in its design for what would be the third trench run now, though to be mimicking ROTJ they would need to fly into the ship in order to destroy it.

https://movieweb.com/rise-of-skywalker-onager-star-destroyer-star-wars/

This “article” went from tabletop board game piece to Ep. IX Death Star trench run with about as much evidence as a kangaroo court.

Really cool chart! Thanks, Dre.

TROS won’t do as poorly as the chart currently indicates, I don’t think. Though you don’t need a chart to predict that it’s going to be the worst performing film of the Sequel Trilogy. I don’t think it’s going to bomb as hard as the Solo movie. Might make a modest profit by Disney standards.

This project has not been completed yet.

But I am wondering if there are any updates. I know RU.08 was hoping to have it rescanned a couple months ago.

jawa scrapper said:

do not go to forums.thestarwarstrilogy.com and expect to find links to the movies…i just registered and it was a complete waste of time.
jumped through all the hoops and there wasn’t anything worthwhile…so I spent a few minutes to tell others on this forum not to bother, hopefully save your time.

forums.thestarwarstrilogy.com = waste of time.

Well, you couldn’t be more wrong. Some of the projects that are indeed available on TheStarWarsTrilogy started right here on OT. Everyone here already knows how invaluable Williarob and TheStarWarsTrilogy have been to the Star Wars theatrical restoration effort.

The only thing you succeeded in doing with this post is making yourself look a fool.

MikeWW said:

You don’t know that that cut wasn’t notably worse than what Lucas ended up with.

I don’t see how it could’ve been much worse.

act on instinct said:

My prediction of how the audience might view this in hindsight is that TFA and TLJ will feel like an overextended prologue while TROS will be this mega movie, the one you skip to (RotS anyone?), backed into a corner and ultimately too bloated to gracefully end the ride smoothly, if even intact.

I think this is a pretty apt description of the problem with this new trilogy. I quite like TLJ, but what it didn’t do well was provide concrete motivation for our characters going forward. There are almost no loose ends to tie up and as a viewer, there aren’t very many questions that I need answered.

So now Ep. IX has the unenviable task of starting from scratch story-wise. Introducing a brand new conflict and new character motivations and then resolving them while also wrapping up the trilogy as a whole, resolving the First Order vs. Rebellion conflict. There’s so much to do and so many ways it could go wrong. I would almost prefer it if they left the main First Order vs. Rebellion conflict open-ended and just focused on developing a satisfying story and ending for the characters, but we all know that won’t happen.

OutboundFlight said:

People are now saying Rey is Shimi Skywalker, which raises some very concerning questions I think don’t fit in the SW universe. Hopefully, this isn’t the case.

Uh, yeah. I don’t think those people are considering the extremely problematic implications of that scenario.