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Post
#1320342
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

StarkillerAG said:

pleasehello said:

Almost everything you mentioned has a 1:1 counterpart in the sequel trilogy.

Which shouldn’t be taken as a compliment towards the sequels.
Copying a much better story does not make your story good.

Yeah, it’s not a compliment. I’m saying they’re comparable in this one specific regard. Wexter seems to think they aren’t

Post
#1320330
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Wexter said:

pleasehello said:

Wexter said:

The weird thing about the new trilogy is that the state of the larger galaxy is just absolutely incomprehensible. While the prequels clearly show the might and fall of the Old Republic, the OT depicts the Rebel Alliance defeating Palpatine’s Empire. The obvious next step would probably be showing the struggles of the New Republic or something along those lines.

Instead we got what seems to be two fringe groups of fanatics and has-beens fighting it out in the Outer Rim while the larger galaxy doesn’t really care about any of that until like the last ten minutes of the story.

You kind of just described the OT. We never really see the effect of the Empire on the galaxy at large. Only how it relates to the rebellion and our main characters. The only reason we know of the Empire’s reach is because it’s called “the Empire”.

This is simply not true. We see the Empire terrorize the citizens of Tatooine and Bespin, having spies and mercenaries everywhere, shattering the residues of the old Republic with the dissolution of Senate and destruction of Alderaan, which itself is supposed to be a clear message towards potentially dissenting systems.

Sure, the First Order somehow built the SKB, but that was supposedly a one-off device with no clear follow-up and nobody really reacts to the obliteration of several systems. My point still stands.

Almost everything you mentioned has a 1:1 counterpart in the sequel trilogy.

Like I said, it doesn’t make the ST galaxy any more comprehensible, but the two are completely comparable.

Post
#1320303
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

StarkillerAG said:

pleasehello said:

Wexter said:

The weird thing about the new trilogy is that the state of the larger galaxy is just absolutely incomprehensible. While the prequels clearly show the might and fall of the Old Republic, the OT depicts the Rebel Alliance defeating Palpatine’s Empire. The obvious next step would probably be showing the struggles of the New Republic or something along those lines.

Instead we got what seems to be two fringe groups of fanatics and has-beens fighting it out in the Outer Rim while the larger galaxy doesn’t really care about any of that until like the last ten minutes of the story.

You kind of just described the OT. We never really see the effect of the Empire on the galaxy at large. Only how it relates to the rebellion and our main characters. The only reason we know of the Empire’s reach is because it’s called “the Empire”. I agree it’s less clear what the scope of the First Order’s power is, but only because their name is more ambiguous.

The OT doesn’t need as much explanation though, because the story is relatively simple. An evil empire rules the entire galaxy, and a brave group of rebels has to stop them. With the sequels, you need more backstory to explain where this mysterious First Order came from, how much influence it has, and why the Resistance is a separate group from the Republic, none of which is explained by the movies. You need to read the EU to find out the basic plot of the sequels, which isn’t a good approach to storytelling.

Right. It’s obvious that Abrams was trying to do something simpler, eschewing the politics of the prequels. In his mind, I bet the story made as much sense as the OT. But the ST is a continuing story, the First Order is not the Empire and at least a bit more (not much) explanation was definitely warranted.

I know this has been said ad nauseum, but I’ll take the confusing galactic status of the ST over the political minutia of the prequels any day of the week. It’s still too bad a middle road wasn’t taken.

Post
#1320289
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Wexter said:

The weird thing about the new trilogy is that the state of the larger galaxy is just absolutely incomprehensible. While the prequels clearly show the might and fall of the Old Republic, the OT depicts the Rebel Alliance defeating Palpatine’s Empire. The obvious next step would probably be showing the struggles of the New Republic or something along those lines.

Instead we got what seems to be two fringe groups of fanatics and has-beens fighting it out in the Outer Rim while the larger galaxy doesn’t really care about any of that until like the last ten minutes of the story.

You kind of just described the OT. We never really see the effect of the Empire on the galaxy at large. Only how it relates to the rebellion and our main characters. The only reason we know of the Empire’s reach is because it’s called “the Empire”. I agree it’s less clear what the scope of the First Order’s power is, but only because their name is more ambiguous.

Post
#1320113
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

yotsuya said:

They are junk speeders and falling apart. The weapon is about to blast a whole in the very thick door and Finn is trying to fly down the barrel. His ship starts disintegrating around him and his weapons are destroyed. It took no brain power for me to understand Finn was going to kill himself and do no damage the first time I saw it. Nothing needs to be added or explained. None of it is fan theory. The movie properly shows us what we need instead of giving us a boring speech to lay it out. Show don’t tell is basic writing 101.

I disagree. It’s not made clear at all that his sacrifice would have had no effect. But I don’t think it matters. Either way, Rose’s point remains the same.

Post
#1319000
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Valheru_84 said:

You’re not meant to stop and think and try to make sense of it all Hal 😉

You jest, but it’s true. That’s the way Star Wars has always been. It’s emotional, not logical. None of it makes any sense logically and if you think about the viability of certain plot elements in those terms, it falls apart. So no, you’re not meant to make sense of it all.

I don’t think that’s even close to being this film’s biggest problem.

Post
#1318689
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

dgraham414 said:

I mean I was sitting in the theatre and when the emperor’s theme started playing over an image of Rey I literally freaked out at how similar they were. Being a music composition minor in my undergrad, this similarity might not have been planned from TFA but Williams clearly pushes the similarities for this film

Rey and Ben’s theme’s having commonalities was clearly intentional. Ben and Palpatine commonalities are there and probably not an accident. But to suggest that Rey and Palpatine’s theme’s are intentionally related because they both use a minor 3rd interval a few times is really a stretch.

Post
#1316613
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Yeah. Old school film composition par excellence as Williams does so well requires having the final edit in front of him to work with.

Yes. It really annoyed me that the exact same musical cue was used in the wipe to credits as TFA. This was the big finale and they just recycled the same recording from TFA. It comes off so lazy.

Post
#1315276
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Cthulhunicron said:

act on instinct said:

The fact that we even need to dive this deep for explanations through art books and lore really bums me out.

Me too. I was really hoping for better storytelling than this.

It’s not really important to the story though. Would the movies really be better if they told us in excruciating detail how he found the Jedi Temple? Expanded materials are the perfect place for those kind of explanations in my opinion.

Post
#1314674
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

theprequelsrule said:

ChainsawAsh said:

theprequelsrule said:

Cthulhunicron said:

I’m still trying to wrap my brain around Palpatine’s resurrection.

My current theory is Exogol Palpatine is the same one from the prequels. ROTJ was a clone being controlled like a puppet, a la Snoke. This would explain why he’s so decrepit and withered in TROS, and why he still has the face scars after being regenerated. My thinking is that Palpatine cannot simply clone a new body and transfer his soul into it, he can only control them remotely using the Force. This explains why he needs Rey. Eventually his body will grow so old (and possibly withered by excessive dark side energies) that even his life support equipment will no longer sustain him.

What do you think?

I think Dark Empire’s idea was way better then the shit sandwich TROS gave us.

How would you know? You haven’t seen it or TLJ, right?

There are enough spoilers out there for me to form a judgement. And Dark Empire already had the idea that Palpatine needed a non-clone force-sensitive body to transfer his essence into.

A plot synopsis is not a movie. You may think the plot sounds dumb and it kind of is, but you can’t honestly call the movie a “shit sandwich” if you haven’t seen it. A movie is more than a series of plot points. An Empire Strikes Back plot synopsis would probably be boring as hell.

Post
#1314593
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

Hal 9000 said:

People taking Luke’s remark as he catches the saber as a jab at TLJ don’t seem to appreciate his arc. It’s pretty obvious that he changed dramatically over the course of that film.

You mean he’s not the same asshole at the end of the film that he is at the beginning? I guess I was too busy complaining that TLJ ruined Luke’s legacy to bother to pay attention.

Next you’ll tell me that his projection holding Anakin’s saber at the end was symbolic of that change. Should have been the green one cuz it would’ve been more cooler and what I desperately wanted as a fan.

Post
#1314392
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

dgraham414 said:

Alright during the Rey Kylo fight in the water Finn and Jana are inside the wreckage, then 10 seconds later they’re on top of the wreckage, then Rey pushes Finn through the waves, then we see them on Ajan Kloss with zero explanation of how they got there or when they repaired the Falcon. Just a small scene needed to be added to fix this…

The scene with them repairing the Falcon is when Jana reveals that she was a former storm trooper. One can assume they finished up repairs and headed back to base. I didn’t think it was a huge leap.

Post
#1314347
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread — * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Omni said:

To be fair, I think Rian at the very least suspected something like this could happen and wrapped the trilogy in his own movie. There are really so few loose ends that TROS could be a mini-series of epilogues or something.

I doubt that was his intention. If it was though, and he purposely engineered TLJ so that no one would be able to continue the story in a convincing manner, that would be a real asshole move.
As it stands, TLJ really put J.J. in a difficult position and it shouldn’t be a surprise that TROS feels rushed and overstuffed.

Post
#1313633
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations - <strong>NO SPOILERS</strong>
Time

Hal 9000 said:

I apologize for my bitter comments about the box office so far. I don’t want to be that guy. I’m honestly surprised to see widespread positivity about this one, and I don’t want to prevent that enjoyment from happening.

Like I said, I’m looking forward to seeing my own perception rebound upward over time, with the group’s help, hopefully.

I mean, you’re not wrong. It’s totally lacking in creativity, though I would argue no more than TFA. It’s short on thematic material except for some already well-trodden territory. But it’s so joyful in its schlockier aspects that I couldn’t help but enjoy it.

It’s punctuated with some genuinely touching moments as well.

Mod Edit: TROS SPOILERS REMOVED

 
Read the New plot spoiler policy - ** please read ** - Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker & The Mandalorian series

NO TROS SPOILERS IN HERE

EDIT: Sorry. I wasn’t using my brain.

Post
#1312645
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread — * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

This movie was schlock and I kind of loved it. The story is fun but incomprehensible and purposely never stops long enough for the audience to think about any of it. There were a lot of chuckles and a lot of eye-rolls, but I was always with it. The worst part for me was the kiss, making it two Star Wars films in a row where a kiss was easily the worst part of the movie.

I feel that each film in this trilogy stands on its own well enough and has its merits. But as a trilogy, as three pieces of a larger whole it fails miserably. I don’t know what else to say. This whole thing feels like a failed, poorly planned experiment, but one that I got a lot of enjoyment out of.

Post
#1311316
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

fmalover said:

I’m going to wait a few days until after the premiere to read the plot summary on Wikipedia.

I don’t trust J.J. Abrams.

This will be how we all consume film in 50 years. The film’s success will then be determined by the number of upvotes the plot summary receives. Nice to see you’ve already embraced our dystopian future.

Post
#1311278
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

screams in the void said:

this sums up my thoughts on the film and the fan base very well. To the creator of this video, I say Kudos and drop the mic dude ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cBTLsWiDg&fbclid=IwAR1lUEbfBOn5Yr2VPJSfqaLPzlQf5WDqjUQEZEfG46_WMcctzcbjJqODgoI

Too much nerd-splaining. He uses the same lore-based logic to explain why TLJ is good as its detractors use to explain why it’s bad. If you have to strain this hard to explain why a fictional work is actually genius, then either you’re desperately trying to convince yourself that you like it or the arguments you’re trying to refute probably aren’t worth refuting. Star Wars is so much more basic than that. These films suffer from so much over-analysis and in the end few of the arguments actually have any bearing on whether the movie is good or bad.

Post
#1310539
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Cobra Kai said:

pleasehello said:

I just listened to it as well.

It’s fine, but it’s pretty anemic when it comes to new thematic material with a couple of exceptions (both of which Sir Ridley mentioned). I know this isn’t a complete soundtrack, but as-is it has the least to offer of all three sequel trilogy soundtracks. It either spends a lot of time playing with different colors or weaving quickly in and out of motifs we’re already familiar with. I know John Williams is very old now and I honestly wonder how much involvement he really had in scoring this movie. Much of this soundtrack sounds like it might have been delegated to one of his proteges.

Also keep in mind, most of Williams’ scores that he’s composed over the course of his career were written AFTER the final cuts of the movies were finished. That is no longer the case as modern big budget movies are now cut and re-cut right up until the release, so composers no longer have such luxury. As a result the final scores end up being cut up and patched together by the music editor to match the final edit.
This is one reason why thematic scores in general are mostly a thing of the past; modern scores are no longer linked to the movie structure, but are just relegated to simply being appropriate moments for individual scenes.

So yes, Williams is very old now, but it’s also not really fair to compare his modern scores with his old classics where he was completely free to work his magic.

Yes, that’s true. But not being able to score the final cut doesn’t preclude a composer from writing compelling thematic material for the individual scenes you mention. Comparing this score to OT or PT scores is unfair and not something I would do, but even when comparing it to TFA, this score has a lot less meat.

At Johnny’s age it’s almost a certainty he had collaborators who contributed musical material to this score, so it’s not so much a question of if he had help, but rather how much help he had. And honestly that’s fine. I love John Williams and I’d rather he contributed only 50% of the score than if he didn’t contribute at all. It’s a fine score and it’s no less than I expected.

Post
#1310517
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I just listened to it as well.

It’s fine, but it’s pretty anemic when it comes to new thematic material with a couple of exceptions (both of which Sir Ridley mentioned). I know this isn’t a complete soundtrack, but as-is it has the least to offer of all three sequel trilogy soundtracks. It either spends a lot of time playing with different colors or weaving quickly in and out of motifs we’re already familiar with. I know John Williams is very old now and I honestly wonder how much involvement he really had in scoring this movie. Much of this soundtrack sounds like it might have been delegated to one of his proteges.

Post
#1309301
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Sir Ridley said:

yotsuya said:

regularjoe said:

timdiggerm said:

Hey everyone, I accidentally read some spoilers, so I guess I’m here now instead of the no-spoiler thread. Anyway, the stuff I read was pretty crazy, but then I read some other stuff that seemed to conflict it. So…is there anywhere where I can read a summary of the current state of speculation and leaks, instead of sifting through 127 pages?

here you go

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k-gO17Y1ENyq2aahYqDAFgeMrqP95qaNhIaLtiFLDAE/edit

I kinda hope that is accurate. That is about the level of detail of the TFA leaks that proved very accurate. We will see.

I’m fine with all the leaks, I just hope there’s more to the fate of Kylo/Ben. That’s the only thing I feel strongly about. But I think it’s likely that the leaks are incomplete and in some cases only true from a certain point of view. There are a lot of crucial details missing. But I will go into the movie expecting the worst and see what happens.

The leaked plot stuff seems mostly fine to me as well. Kind of standard, mostly predictable stuff; nothing groundbreaking. Honestly, the dumbest part of the new plot has already been officially revealed which is that Palpatine is returning somehow.

Post
#1309119
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

thedewback2 said:

emanswfan said:

I’m sure it won’t be anything larger than what happened in Endgame, but I’m still happy to hear some progress towards LGBTQ inclusion in the Star Wars movies.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/star-wars-rise-skywalker-director-j-j-abrams-hints-lgbtq-n1095496

This was leaked a little while back. Two female Resistance pilots kiss before the final battle.

Found them!