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oojason

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5-May-2004
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1-Jul-2025
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Post
#207832
Topic
A Series of Questions for Socialism's Proponents
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207832/action/topic#207832
Time
1. Since socialst nations have existed in the past and failed, what do you attribute their failure to? Is it reasonable to believe that these "obstacles" can be overcome in the short term?

some have failed - some have succeeded. The UK is governed by a socialist based party, as are other countires around the world. It is intersting to note that some countries that have enforced a system upon it's inhabitants have rebelled against it.



2. Were any of these nations imperialistic in nature, meaning did they expand beyond their national borders and conquer territory not in their possession prior to the Bolshevic revolution of the early part of the 20th century?

Have a look at the British Commonwealth and just how many countries are part of it - could add the USA to it on past criteria.



3. Were there "exceptions" to the socialist philosophies of these countries, meaning did any of the ruling class own nice automobiles or houses that were well beyond "....his needs"?

Probably so - the idea of socialism is to work together and help those around you to better everyon'e lives. It does not mean people should not have 'nice things'.



4. If inequitable distribution of wealth is the cause of crime and social injustice, how do you explain people who are wealthy that committ crimes?

Greed, love, jealousy. I'm prettys sure there are murderes in prisons from all walks of life.



5. Is brute labor the only force that is essential to the prosperity and equality of a society?

No, of course not. People voluntarily working together to acheive a goal can accomplish a lot.



6. If wealth were to be "redistributed" from the "20%" of the world's population that control it, and then given to the other 80%, will despotic rulers and tyrants be disposed to give this wealth to their people, or keep it for themselves?

Are the 80% all despotic leaders and tyrants? - what of 20% leaders? Do you give the leaders the money and say 'here it is' and leave them to it, or do you agree schemes and projects that help the most needy and take an active role in how it' is allocated.



7. If they did give the money to their citizens, would the social and physical infrastructure of these other nations immediately improve? If so, how?

Immediately? Possibly not - such an underastking takes time. If a hosptial can buy several £million of new equipment for it's patients it will still need to train technicians and and staff on how to use them etc



8. What incentive does a person who has guaranteed health care, housing, food, water, and clothing have to strive for a better life?

He strives for an even better life - helping those around him to ensure it.



9. For socialism to be truly implemented, the government must assume vast powers. Once assumed, what guarantee is there that the government will not abuse these powers?

Vote them in, vote them out - they don't need to be all powerful - tghe electorate (the people) still have ultimate power.



10. Do people try to accumulate more or less power?

As a whole? I don't know. It seems politicians cancertainly lose sight of issues for personal gain.



11. What if 1 or 2 people in said country decided they didn't feel socialism was right for them. Would the government be justified in using any and all means to implement the system for the greater good?

They are free to live wherever they feel as long as they abide by the people's wishes. They do not have to stay where they do not agree with how things are being run.



12. Is force justifiable in the redistribution of wealth?

Ask the IRS, or the taman, or the parking wardens.



13. In a socialist system, who's interests should/will take precedence in case of child rearing? Parents, or the State?

Parents decide on how to raise their childen. The state should be there to protect them, and both should work together to ready the children for life as an adult.



14. Should religious institutions be permitted in socialist societies?

Absolutely - free speech and beliefs should be permitted everywhere.



15. Of the examples the world has known so far, socialism as implemented in Cuba, China, North Korea, Soviet Union, etc; and capitalism as seen in the US, UK, Australia, etc: Which has offered the greater personal liberties to it's citizens?

I disagree - Communism has been implemented in some of those countries you mentioned - not socialism.



16. Given that the socialist death toll is at 100 million and counting, vastly outpacing "facist" numbers, does socialism get a free pass because it's more "altruistic"...at least on the surface? Can any ideology that results in the death of even one life be considered to be altruisitic?

Again, that is not a socilaist death toll - it a commnist based one and enforced on the people.



17. What is the difference between Facism and Communism? Do they not both lead to state control of the economy, thus making ideologies irrelevant?

That really isn't about socialism, but is you wish I'll come back to it later.



18. What is the difference between Marxist-Leninism vs Communism and can the more "pure" forms be implemented without innevitably deteriorating to totalitarianism?

That really isn't about socialism, but is you wish I'll come back to it later.



JediSage - what is your definition of socialism? and how does it differ from Communism?
Post
#207826
Topic
A Series of Questions for Socialism's Proponents
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207826/action/topic#207826
Time
^ some interesting points, Ric.


Under Capitalism we have seen countries stand by and do nothing (or too little too late) as atrociites have been carried out around the world - it seems if it is not in the interests fo the West to intervene (oil, money, contracts, money etc) then it stands by and does nothing.

What is the point of accumulating money and power (and large militaries) - when people around you are dying and you can prevent it, but choose not to?



Post
#207694
Topic
A Series of Questions for Socialism's Proponents
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207694/action/topic#207694
Time
^ you can have a democratic socialism on a national level - the UK Labour Party is a socialist movement (though seemingly not over the past 10 years - from my own point of view) - and is currently in power in the UK.

You can vote them in, you can vote them out - no coersion - no one is imprisoned for having a different belief etc.

Local councils run government at a more accessible (and local) level - though there are corrupt and greedy politicians from all political parties - and differing beliefs.

Post
#207680
Topic
A Series of Questions for Socialism's Proponents
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207680/action/topic#207680
Time
(the following may not make too much sense as my head's been spinning from the OT chess tournament and other PC stuff today, but...)

I basically view socialism as a coming together of a community or group of like-minded people to acheive something for the which will benefit the group or their surroundings.

Many of the questions posed by JediSage can also be applied to capitalism - corrupted Western politicians with ties to private companies giving them lucrative government contracts in return for a place on the director's board after their political lives are over - at the expense of the people they are elected to help...

Each system has it's corruption and weaknesses - people are dying in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and many other places in the world because of the greed and power of Western governemnts and an unwillingness to get involved because it may be unpopular - and they may lose their power by being voted out by the electorate. On the other scale we have governments getting too involved in other countries affairs - and give reasons as stability and fuel as reasons why they should take matters into their own hands.

Besides, in a capitalist world it seems as long as people have a nice house, car, holidays, a big tv and are subjected to the mindnumbing blandness that appears on the majority of it, nearly everyone under capitialism are content - many of which have a 'so what' attitiude to the preventable and addressable horrific events that take place around the world.


I have to say it is communism - not socialism that is enforced in places such as China by the Government. The people do not decide for themselves what is to be done for their betterment - it is a regime that anwers to no-one (which could also be corrupt) - and that is NOT socialism.

Socialism is, and can be, democratic - if it was so I'm confident they wouldn't vote to exile thousands of people many years to Siberia for not agreeing with others, many more missing and liked in China.

(have to stop here for now - time for an anadin)

Post
#207518
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207518/action/topic#207518
Time
It's a little strange that the press release on the sw.com has changed 3 times (or is it more?) since it's first appearance on 4th May - with info disappearing/reappearing about the possible content/versions of this release.

Though, having said that, it's certainly got the fans talking... interesting publicity - or perhaps not everyone 'high up' in LFL knows what's going on?


More changes to come?




Post
#207005
Topic
Finally At Peace With Star Wars...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207005/action/topic#207005
Time
Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
It's finally done and over, and we get to have our beloved movies. But also a little sad because many of us will move on now that the "war is over."

It doesn't have to be that way. People can still discuss the original trilogy. After all, we're all here because we really like it. It's a passion, an escape, a part of our journey. We've spent plenty of time discussing it, but now there won't be this preoccupation with, or this threat of, it being taken away forever while we try to find a way to save it.

Sure, the war is over - but now, the original trilogy isn't. I'll make that trade any day.



With the forthcoming releases it may well be possible/easier to do edits for each time GL tinkered with every release...

Post
#206235
Topic
ORIGINAL STAR WARS TRILOGY OUT 09/2006 BY LUCASFILM
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206235/action/topic#206235
Time
Let's wait and see just what is going to be on these discs - a capture from the 1993 laserdiscs, or a hybrid of a couple of releases etc, a suped-up OCP set?


Am expecting 'George Lucas' to start his own thread in the 'Preservation Section' shortly - though probably won't be telling us exactly how he made this set - and he may get short shrift if he starts asking for money for them...


Post
#204859
Topic
Jokes thread : Reloaded
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204859/action/topic#204859
Time

A man breaks down on the motorway in his 3-wheeled Reliant Robin. Just then a fella in a Lamborghini passes and stops to help. "I'll give you a tow to the next garage" says the man, "but if i'm going too fast for you, just flash your lights and I'll slow down"

So off they go, the Reliant in tow.

They're driving along, when a Ferrari whizzes past, doing 150mph.

The Lamborghini driver decides to pose, and race the Ferrari, and proceeds to put his foot down.

A mile down the road, a policeman on his motorbike radio's through to his colleague. "You won't believe what I've just seen. A Ferrari doing 150mph and a Lamborghini racing beside him also doing 150mph.

Whats so great bout that?" asks the colleague

"Well," says the copper "There's a Reliant Robin also doing 150mph, flashing his lights, trying to overtake..."

Post
#204647
Topic
Have any of you guys been fired before?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204647/action/topic#204647
Time
Originally posted by: HotRod
I had a job in the holiday’s way, way, back printing T-Shirts.
What a shit job. But because I knew it was only for a few weeks, I didn't really care about it.

But I eventually got the sack for spraying glue into my eyes. I was so bored I made a little tube out of stickers that were lying around, and stuck them in the nozzle of the spray glue. Then for some reason I sprayed it into my eyes. Yep, I nearly went blind, and they fired me. Well, I suppose it didn't help that I kept taking the piss out of the mongs who worked there. But man, what a shit job.



That's one to save for the grandkids mate...