oojason

John Doom said:

(😄 On a side note, is it me, or things are getting a bit “intense” in this forum? Maybe I’m being misinterpreted, but I do have to say that lately, when I step on a thread about TFA, I’m by some immediately wrongly “accused” of considering this movie “garbage”, and of “bashing” it because it’s trendy or something 😄 )

Well, I hope what you said doesn’t derail thie thread - like cyclista has just stated ‘in this thread - love only’. Perhaps if you’d like to talk about your side note you could start a new thread?, or attempt genuine dialogue on the subject in the very thread in which there are a few opposing viewpoints?

Lord Haseo said:

oojason said:

Lord Haseo said:

I also loved how in that brief scene they established Poe and Finn being friends far better than us being told Anakin and Obi-Wan were friends in the Prequels.

yet it happens quite casually and seemingly naturally in TFA with Pe & Finn.

And then again with Finn and Rey. While I believe that they’re not meant for each other romantically their friendship was developed pretty well. I mean even though they barely knew each other I could feel genuine woe emanating from Rey as Finn was being dragged off by a Rathtar.

Yes, you can see and feel that moment where Rey thinks that this man Finn, shows genuinely concern for her - something she may not have been used to on Jakku in her environment before and seems taken aback by it, and this, amongst other scenes is obviously strengthened by him Han and Chewy coming to try and free her on Starbase Killer later on. Her scenes with an injured Finn just before she leaves to find Luke was very well played too.

Bingowings said:

oojason said:

Just in case it hasn’t been mentioned… any Editors could remove from the end credits the mention of the UK Chancellor - George Osbourne - from the film. Someone who cuts the benefits for the sick, disabled and mentally ill, cuts the NHS and other emergency services, cuts the HRMC (tax service) so it’s no longer fit to collect taxes or challenge big business avoiding paying their fair share, whilst the rest of us in the UK face even more cuts doesn’t really deserve to be in the film credits - even if he did give tax breaks to Disney.

Rant over. Sorry.

^ THIS comrade 😄

The proletariat shall be heard, my brother 😉

Just in case it hasn’t been mentioned… any Editors could remove from the end credits the mention of the UK Chancellor - George Osbourne - from the film. Someone who cuts the benefits for the sick, disabled and mentally ill, cuts the NHS and other emergency services, cuts the HRMC (tax service) so it’s no longer fit to collect taxes or challenge big business avoiding paying their fair share, whilst the rest of us in the UK face even more cuts doesn’t really deserve to be in the film credits - even if he did give tax breaks to Disney.

Rant over. Sorry.

Bingowings said:

I hate the end credits. Our evil Chancellor gets a mention FFS. The End Credits were the worst part of the movie.

FanEditors know what they have to do…

https://agentofhistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/jc-as-obk-1.jpg

Lord Haseo said:

I also loved how in that brief scene they established Poe and Finn being friends far better than us being told Anakin and Obi-Wan were friends in the Prequels.

Great point mate. One of the bugbears of the 3 previous films is that important friendship between Obi-Wan and Anakin was not satisfactorily seen or felt - yet it happens quite casually and seemingly naturally in TFA with Pe & Finn.

DrCrowTStarwarsreborn - I won’t tell you how you should feel, patronise you, say or something along the lines of ‘it’ll all be alright in the end’, but please remember this - I for one enjoyed your original post here and then arguing and articulating our viewpoints with others - albeit we had to repeat ourselves a few times…

Plus, Frink posts on here ‘frequently’ enough to know more than most he’ll be in misunderstandings in these threads!

Hope you feel better, and see you post again when ready, soon.

TV’s Frink said:

I thought Maz was fantastic. I don’t get the hate. Especially the “JUST A YODA COPY” complaints. What?

Yoda had a thing for Chewy too? j/k

cyclista - be interesting and fun for Maz to further reference her fondness for Chewy - it’s a good way of the writers fleshing out the characters well - and I hope we see more if in the future films; even if it’s something like Maz winking at him knowingly and him being all shy & coy and running off pretend he’s busy etc.

A bit like where Rey says to Finn ‘why are you holding my hand?’ when on the run - it not only establishes their character, but that bit of interplay, makes the characters a little bit more real, accessible and likeable.

I think it may have been something missing from the Prequels.

Anchorhead said:

joefavs said:

^Agreed. It’s been thrown around so much and so carelessly that it’s lost its specific meaning and become an excuse for dismissing something without bothering to articulate.

Exactly. It’s no different than Fanboy and Fanfic. Internet laziness for trolls.

Amen, lads.

TV’s Frink said:

That_OT_Ruler said:

joefavs said:

Couldn’t it be that -GASP- the character is supposed to be more powerful than Luke? Everyone’s treating this like they failed to portray a character on roughly ANH-era Luke’s level believably, but since when is that the cap on Force aptitude in this universe? Maybe Rey just does better than Luke because she is better than Luke.

The problem is it makes her unrelatable. I didn’t connect with her character at all. She was too perfect, didn’t have any flaws, didn’t dream of wanting more, or something that could maybe connect us to her personality. She was just… weird.

She didn’t dream of wanting more? She was weird?

I’ve barely read any reviews complaining about Rey not being a character you could connect with. Women and girls especially.

never has to be rescued

Well that’s not a sexist complaint.

The bits where she keeps telling Finn to stop holding her hand and she knows how to run were fantastic.

Good luck with the sexist who ignored/forgot that Rey needed rescuing off of the Starkiller Base as it was about to blow up by Chewy in the Falcon mate, not that you’ll need it.

Nice writing, that - the bits about the handholding and running (in amongst an already well-written and well-portrayed character).

I must now depart this place for a while - there may be some women out there that need rescuing… (the weirdos!)

DrCrowTStarwarsreborn said:

Well I wasn’t thinking of the prequels but that is a good point. I was basing it just on how much she looked like Luke when he was bashing away at Vader in Return of the Jedi, and after that he had to throw his lightsaber away to keep from turning to the dark side so it seems to me that striking in anger for any reason leads to the dark side in the Star Wars universe.

^ Same here - though I’ve bored even myself (and mates) silly with my belief/theory that Rey is Luke’s daughter so I’m trying not to read too much into more similarities that others have come across that may enforce this! lol. Having said that I’ve done it again in that Rey displaying a similar fighting style to Anakin could contribute just that little bit more to her being a Skywalker (whether intentional on the actress/filmmakers part - or a coincidence - or my strawclutching). Let alone similar to Luke… I need some sleep.

The rest of your post was for JD, yes?

In terms of the Sagas itself I liked the return of real sets - acting and reacting in a real environment or sets (or as close as). On my 1st viewing Maz and Snoke jumped out to me - they seemed somewhat fake, yet it wasn’t that the CGi was bad, it was that they were CGI characters in a ‘real’ film. On the 2nd and other viewings they didn’t jump out as much, and to be honest Maz has grown on me and Snoke does have that menace and intrigue about him.

It is probably because of the Prequel sets, the CGI characters in them, the stageiness/falseness of the PT sets, that ‘bad’ feeling about the Prequels, that they possibly jarred with me (and possibly others too?)

I also think they’ve nailed the characters - you actually identify with them, care about them, what is happening to them, what will happen to them in the coming films. I’ve not felt that about a Star Wars film in a long, long time… the filmmakers and the crew all did a great job.

DrCrowTStarwarsreborn said:

Yeah same here, sorry to say I am done for now.

Oh and I say she was using the dark side or at least in danger of falling to the dark side because in the OT when Luke struck at Vader in anger it pleased Palpatine because it put him well on the path to the dark side and Yoda ever said “A Jedi uses the force for Knowledge and defense, never attack” and Rey was clearly mad and attacking, at least as mad as Luke was in Jedi and since this movie does share a writer with Empire and Jedi I assume it is playing by the same rules that were put forward in those movies. I admit I could be wrong about this but a few people I have talked to came to the same conclusion I did without my telling them my idea after they saw the movie for the first time, so I am sticking with this idea until I am told it is wrong by another movie. That is all.

^ yes mate, the bit in the fight with Ren after she let the Force in when backed up on the cliff and she goes on the attack… after she hits him low down and then with a thrust to his shoulder - there is a grimace on her face and style/stance which reminded me of Anakin’s fighting style in ROTS (very confident, attacking style - and to a point, similar to Darth Maul’s) - she has the sabre behind her back ready for a chopping motion… and then they go onto clash and she kicks him to the floor.

Of course I’d have to go watch the Prequels again to verify it (my dodgy old memory - I could well be wrong) - and I really don’t want to have to watch those Prequels again 😉

With respect JD, I think you’re pausing to talk and shift what you say you mean around, not pausing to take in and listen, and your arguments are circular. For example…

your new reply 1 - ‘only referring to the fact she was able to fly the Falcon good enough to not get destroyed by the Tie-Fighters’… and then ‘not a real issue’. Which is it? Why didn’t you say that in the first place instead?

your new reply 2 - your ‘almost fully trained Jedi’… holding a lighsabre and still it’s a small knowledge of the Force (of all the force powers and abilities out there…)

your new reply 3 - ‘sometimes she doesn’t seem a true character fully enstablished’ - I fully disagree, she as a character developed over the film to her given situation and environment as stated before.

your new reply 4 - it contradicts your own claims in your new reply 2. Which is it - ‘she barely knows what it is’ or ‘almost full trained jedi’?

your new reply 5 - he’s now ‘drawing power from the Darkside’ because another user on here said so? Again, that’s quite a reach.

your new reply 6 - ‘Which, again, is something she does but never explained how or even hinted’ - erm… Maz hints at it where she says that Luke’s sabre is calling to her… and Maz tells her about the Force - “it moves through and around every living thing”, “close your eyes… feel it… the Light. It’s always been there - it will guide you.” - after the Force Visions where she touches Luke’s lightsabre. As I stated before the Force guided Rey when she let it in after she was her getting beat by Rey (you know, the bit where she closed her eyes and let the Force in?)

I’ve done you the courtesy of answering your statements and questions - but as I stated above, your posts shift in what you mean, your arguments are circular - and you don’t seem to have taken in what others have said - so I hope you understand why I won’t be replying to you again on this. Thank you.

John Doom said:

oojason said:

I disagree with a lot of that JD - for one she hasn’t acquired more skills than Luke has (has she?)

She has, indeed:
-she has extensive mechanics knowledge (thankfully, it’s at least hinted that it may be because of her work as a scavenger;
-she’s a good enough pilot that she can outdo two (or three?) Tie-Fighters; Specifically, she knows how to pilot the Falcon AND also knows how to fix specific Falcon’s issues;
-she’s a skilled fighter in both close-quarter and range combat;
-in the end, she knows how to use the Force to push, pull, trick.

and she is clearly not a skilled Jedi or even ‘just’ a Jedi (that may come in the later films?), her first knowledge of the Force is when Han tells her and Finn about it on the Falcon, no?

Well not as a “status”, but in the end she does both know how to use Force and the handle a lightsaber fight, almost like a “fully trained” Jedi.

She is too perfect? Adapting to her environment in which she has grown up… she has clearly struggled to irk out a living as a scavenger and had to learn to fend for herself - but is quite tidy with the staff and bit and kicked her way through a fight (none of which not really Jedi skills). She also knows how to fix things - probably from her life as a scavenger - and has past experience of flying ships - though not leaving the planet atmosphere).

I’m not saying she shouldn’t know this much because Luke didn’t, just that some of her skills are unexplained, so it feels like she always knows exactly what is needed when is needed. If she can do almost anything, I wonder how they’ll ever be able to put her in a dangerous situation 😄

She then nearly crashes the Falcon, later plans to return to Jakku to await a return of family she deep down knows aren’t coming back, runs from Maz’s castle away from where she has the Force Visions after touching Luke’s old sabre - which is her first real introduction to the Force.

The first time she displays abilities with the Force is when she is being interrogated by Ren - she resists his mind probe and is actually able to probe him back from seemingly learns some abilities or skills from this event to help make she escape via the help of a weak minded stormtrooper. This is being a Mary Sue? It may well be a clue for what is to come in her development, or establishing her character as having the ability to use the Force… or a sign of Ren’s over-confidence, arrogance, or even untrained skills - maybe both?

There’s no enstablishment. Had they at least questioned her sudden knowledge of the Force (like they actually did with Luke’s lightsaber’s finding), it would’ve been fine, though.

The next time she displays abilities with the Force is where she ‘let’s the Force in’ towards the end of her fight with Ren - a fight she was clearly losing to an injured, yet experienced sabre wielder - though hasn’t finished his own training.

Ren keeps hurting himself: if anything, his wound almost seem to make him more powerful. In any case, trained or untrained, wounded or not, Rey suddenly has the upper hand.

And that seemed to me to be the Force guiding her - rather than her having Jedi powers or having more skills than Luke, or being ‘too perfect’… no?

It didn’t seem to me that way :\

Quoting breakdown quotes is starting to hurt my eyes…

your first reply - you ignored the crashing the Falcon bit, she didn’t outdo 2/3 Ties - Finn shot 2 down, yes? A bit of teamwork wouldn’t you say.

your second reply - holding a lightsabre and having a small knowledge of using the Force does not make her an ‘almost fully trained Jedi’.

your third reply - ‘just that some of her skills are unexplained, so it feels like she always knows exactly what is needed when is needed’ - makes little sense.

your fourth reply - ‘sudden knowledge of the Force’ - we’ve established she has knowledge of The Force beforehand - but not how to use it before the interrogation scene with Ren. During the interrogation she gains that knowledge from Ren himself, no?

your fifth reply - you’re reaching a lot there in claiming being shot by a powerful bowcaster made him more powerful? and Rey still only had the upper hand when she let the Force in.

your sixth reply - ok, that’s your interpretation of it.

John Doom said:

She’s too perfect in that she not only has acquired more skills than ANH’s Luke in less than 20 years or so and in poor economic conditions, but she learns all she needs to know about the Force exactly at the right time.

oojason said:

It seems to me it is a lazy criticism - not understanding the characters in the SW universe, or not thinking through the events in the film itself as a whole (her environment, how she struggles initially to the events occurring around her, the decisions she makes, then how she evolves and adapts through those situations she encounters etc - ultimately ending with her ‘Letting The Force In’, as it were, to not be defeated by Ren in the lightsabre fight at the end of the film).

And here’s the thing: it’s not about adaptating to the environment, because it’s been enstablished with 6 movies that nobody in the SW universe can become a skilled Jedi without training, patience, diligence. Rey, on the other hand… Now, I know people’ve speculated that there might be a reason for her sudden knowledge of the Force (like some sort of training at young age), but it wasn’t even hinted or questioned by anyone in this movie, so even if this were true for the sequels, saying Rey is a deus-ex-machina or “Mary Sue” in TFA it’s still understandable. After all, even with a shared plot, every movie should be able to technically stand on its own.

I disagree with a lot of that JD - for one she hasn’t acquired more skills than Luke has (has she?), and she is clearly not a skilled Jedi or even ‘just’ a Jedi (that may come in the later films?), her first knowledge of the Force is when Han tells her and Finn about it on the Falcon, no?

She is too perfect? Adapting to her environment in which she has grown up… she has clearly struggled to irk out a living as a scavenger and had to learn to fend for herself - but is quite tidy with the staff and bit and kicked her way through a fight (none of which not really Jedi skills). She also knows how to fix things - probably from her life as a scavenger - and has past experience of flying ships - though not leaving the planet atmosphere).

She then nearly crashes the Falcon, later plans to return to Jakku to await a return of family she deep down knows aren’t coming back, runs from Maz’s castle away from where she has the Force Visions after touching Luke’s old sabre - which is her first real introduction to the Force.

The first time she displays abilities with the Force is when she is being interrogated by Ren - she resists his mind probe and is actually able to probe him back from seemingly learns some abilities or skills from this event to help make she escape via the help of a weak minded stormtrooper. This is being a Mary Sue? It may well be a clue for what is to come in her development, or establishing her character as having the ability to use the Force… or a sign of Ren’s over-confidence, arrogance, or even untrained skills - maybe both?

The next time she displays abilities with the Force is where she ‘let’s the Force in’ towards the end of her fight with Ren - a fight she was clearly losing to an injured, yet experienced sabre wielder - though hasn’t finished his own training. And that seemed to me to be the Force guiding her - rather than her having Jedi powers or having more skills than Luke, or being ‘too perfect’… no?

^ Yes mate, fully agree. I’m looking forward to the next film (even the dislikers will to carry on disliking it)… but not just to watch the film for itself - but to see how the characters are going to develop, what’ll happen to them, how the story will evolve etc… and having that important element of the viewer caring for the characters shows what a good job the filmmakers did with this film. A mary sue character just wouldn’t have that effect, or generate that interest.

Re ‘Merry Sue’ - no worries 😃 I still can’t remember if Yoda says in ESB ‘difficult to see… always in motion the future is’?, or is it ‘difficult to see… always emotion the future is’? Both work as a line and have an impact - though my memory grows ever awful, and I need more coffee! Thankfully youtube tell me it’s the ‘in motion’ line 😃

Mate, I think it’s ‘Mary Sue’ not ‘Merry Sue’? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

I agree with a lot (not all) of you what you say above - I don’t think Rey is a ‘Mary Sue’ either, much in the way Luke wasn’t (though he possibly fits the description more than Rey does in Ep4).

It seems to me it is a lazy criticism - not understanding the characters in the SW universe, or not thinking through the events in the film itself as a whole (her environment, how she struggles initially to the events occurring around her, the decisions she makes, then how she evolves and adapts through those situations she encounters etc - ultimately ending with her ‘Letting The Force In’, as it were, to not be defeated by Ren in the lightsabre fight at the end of the film).

An example of a similar sort of lazy and not very well thought-through click-bait ‘journalism’ here:-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html -

Which was quite well retorted to in here:-

https://www.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277/

That’s not to say there aren’t valid criticisms of the film or the characters therein - as there will be for almost any film out there… but the Mary Sue thing just doesn’t seem applicable to Rey in this film.

Ajguy said:

Thanks, I’ll do that!

The “Always” line had a weird little squeak or something behind it right at the end of the line. I tried my best to minimize it (you can still kinda hear it if you really listen) while keeping the line intact. I considered trying to find a different line to end with, but there really wasn’t a better option!

I mistakenly thought that the ‘always’ line carried a little - a bit like ‘alwa—yyy—sss’ but you’re 100% right. My memory vs reality! lol

It may be worth checking out these for ideas etc - Shahan’s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN74bOubUug & MakeItDirty’s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdcMWWh3s0&feature=youtu.be - they seem to be quite popular and stir the emotions judging from comments.

Wazzles said:

What exactly is this? An early reconstruction of the '77 crawl and audio?

As far as I can remember/tell it’s NOT a reconstruction - but more a merging of the content from a VHS bootleg handcam recording from a time before ‘A New Hope’ or ‘Episode 4’ was added to Star Wars - edited together with a laserdisc version of the film (for quality) and put onto dvd by MagnoliaFan.

(back then we were all watchers of the various laserdisc versions from PAL/NTSC/Jap regions, and varying quality of laserdisc players being put onto dvds - by the likes of Dr Gonzo, TR47, Cowclops, Isomix, Moth3r, Editdroid, Editous, Citizen, Grinder etc).

Hopefully someone else remembers better than I do - though it may be worth contacting MagnoliaFan himself to see if he can remember! 😃

.

actually (from 7-Jul-2004 - http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-The-Edits-and-DVDr-releases-thread/id/801/page/3)…

MagnoliaFan said:

The audio mix comes straight from the bootleg vhs.
The video has been replaced shot for shot with the lbx laserdisc and the alternate crawl was recreated in After Effects. Also Greedo’s subtitles were recreated as a subtitle track. It’s similar to how the dvd remastered Phantom Re-Edit was done.

For that, the audio was from vhs, the video was a dvd rip, and the subtitles were transcribed as a seperate sub track.
In that case, though, two shots had to be replaced, as no dvd source existed for them, but a before and after vhs to dvd comparison was left to show how minimal the changes were.

Beautiful mate - some impressive work and I really liked watching that.

If it catches on you may be asked a few hundred times how people can get hold of them - it may be worth putting a link into the video itself (at the end of the trailer maybe?) to Harmy’s facebook page, his youtube video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXifjbxZDAM or his threads on here?

I would say that Alec Guinness’ ‘always’ line at the end of the trailer seems a little cut off or short? Could be my hearing though! 😉

Bit of a bump, this - it’s only getting on for 12 years…

I found a dvd copy of this MagnoliaFan version of ‘a Pre-ANH’ Star Wars amongst some stuff previously thought lost in a house move a while back. There may be more info on this in this thread here - but am not 100% sure - http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/id/801/page/1

If anyone wants a 1.9gb .mp4 copy from a googledrive you can PM me for a shared link. (You’ll have to own a copy of Star Wars on vhs, betamax, philips2000, laserdisc, dvd, vcd, cd, film, or whatever format was going back then! - as per site / fanedit rules 😉)

Got to be honest - the picture and sound quality is very raw - in fact the whole film comes across that way - but still enjoyed watching it! MagnoliaFan did a top job back in the day…

😃 I’ve no idea on Young Officer’s name, but glad he’s making a big impression 😉

Think there may be some deleted scenes from the Resistance ops room - hopefully they’ll make it to dvd and be of use for the Editors on here. Maybe a line of dialogue inserted from the other 6 films may also do the trick?

Main thing I’d be interested in seeing done well in an Edit would be how to ‘fix’ the scene where Leia ignores Chewy (after Chewy and Rey return from the mission that Han has just died on), and Leia just hugs Rey instead…

^^ in the ops room on D’Qar with many of the Resistance around the holo-table…

POE: The scan data from Snap’s reconnaissance flight confirms Finn’s report.

SNAP WEXLEY: They’ve somehow created a hyperlight speed weapon built within the planet itself.

YOUNG OFFICER: a laser cannon?

SNAP WEXLEY: We’re not sure how to describe a weapon of this scale…

MAJOR EMATT: It’s another Death Star!

POE: I wish that were the case, Major. This was the Death Star… (a hologram of the Death Star appears, then Starkiller Base appears next to it - dwarfing it in size) … and this is Starkiller Base…

(gasps from many of the people in the room)

HAN: So… it’s big.

ACKBAR: How is it possible to power a weapon of that size?

FINN: It uses the power of the Sun - as the weapon is charged the Sun is drained until it disappears…

Leia receives notice that they are the next target, and the weapon is already charging - the group then come up with the plan to destroy Starkiller Base…

ZkinandBonez said:

oojason said:

buddy-x-wing said:

This seems like as good a place as any to speculate on the upcoming films. I saw The Force Awakens for the 3rd time this morning and I never noticed this on the first 2 viewings, but the scene at the end where Rey meets Luke for the first time, it would appear that Luke is standing in front of a make-shift grave and there is a flat slanted stone that looks like it could be crude headstone. Could this belong to a Mrs Skywalker? or Rey’s mother ? or both?

Aye, my guess it is the grave of Luke’s wife - who was also Ray’s mum. I’m usually wrong on these guesses though…

I don’t think you’re supposed to post camcorder-screenshots on the forum. They don’t exactly look like official pictures released by Disney, Lucasfilm, etc.
Or maybe it doesn’t matter at this point, I don’t know. Just thought I’d mention it.

Apologies - you’re right mate - best be on the safe side and thanks for the reminder - pics deleted.