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ocpmovie

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10-Mar-2008
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Post
#185855
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185855/action/topic#185855
Time
If they want to ban me, let 'em. That forum, as much great stuff has come out of it and as many people are there, has scared me since I previewed it ages ago. I'm curious to see if I can last there, but I doubt it. Forums with too much moderation scare me. I use roughly no moderation at my own.



You can add "Look Around You" to my list of shows to look at, Ogg. Series 1 and 2 are completely different shows, but equally good.
Post
#185833
Topic
Info Wanted: What is the best Episode 4 Edit to incorporate deleted footage?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185833/action/topic#185833
Time
Okay, Sluggo's posted so I will.

Doetzer's edits are as fascinating as they are silly. He's got some fun ideas, which are very entertaining to watch and the kind you'd get from listening to the radio drama while high. It's a lot of nonsense bearing no resemblance to the original Star Wars script, yet watchable.


I (with the vast help and research of Sluggo and others) worked as thoughtfully as I could to slap deleted and making of footage into the film in an entertaining manner. None of the deleted footage is finished or in releasable quality, and it's all quite silly, so it was necessary to give the film a more documentary/comedic tone.

I am offended when someone asks "What is the best Episode 4 Edit to incorporate deleted footage?" and then adds, "Oh yeah, besides that."

The Biggs footage can't be put into a straightforward movie version because it's crap quality and hasn't been released in the same quality and etc etc etc etc etc.

This is as close as you'd want to get. And yeah, I do feel slightly insulted.
Post
#185824
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185824/action/topic#185824
Time
>I imagine that I saw one of the bad edits somewhere when I was younger and remembered the distinctive style and characters.

Or Aladdin. Kidding.


It's funny, I knew about this movie and had read about it in interviews with Richard Williams when I was very young! It's stuck with a lot of people despite its low profile.


>> If you do the documentary, you should open it with a transition from the awful workprint bootleg to your reconstruction - just to show how much better the quality is.

LOL. Not necessary. The thing is ... a lot of the awful looking workprint is still in the movie.


Spaced will probably get a Region 1 release. It's the most "known" of the shows I listed, which is why I listed it last. Request the others. =)

Rutland Weekend Television is Eric Idle's unseen, brilliant followup to Monty Python ... unseen for years because Eric Idle himself has blocked it nowadays. He's become a different person ...
Post
#185782
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185782/action/topic#185782
Time
There are credits at the opening and end of the film.


No mention is made of the reconstruction - it's obvious from the start that this is a mishmash of sources.


I'm planning on doing a documentary, or at least a commentary, about the history of the film and this reconstruction. We'll see.


I prefer the film to speak for itself, is the thing.


I've just signed up for Something Awful, finally, to pimp this reconstruction, yo.
Post
#185421
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185421/action/topic#185421
Time
Those shots of the One Eyes swinging their maces do appear in the released version (and the trailer) so you could work from better quality footage than the workprint. =)


This source, animator Steve Stanchfield, contacted me directly. And yes, not to get too excited, but it does look like there's going to be footage included that's never been seen before, in the workprint or any released version. Interestingly his copy of the workprint, he says, is poor quality, but only a generation or so down from Calvert's own copy - kind of amusing to be using a copy of what Calvert was using when he was trying to construct the film!


I've seen Casino Royale and Williams' work in it. It's not "animation like" enough for me to want to include though. He also did the titles to "What's New Pussycat?" and many other films.


You'll be pleasantly surprised by how much of this cut is finished animation.

If I actually wanted to, I could produce a decent cut of this film using little/no storyboard/unfinished material. And if Disney really wanted to, they could release a good cut of this film using no unfinished or low quality material, easily. Something theatrically releasable.

I won't do that because I don't want to cut out any of what the film was intended to be, but it's certainly possible.

The rumors about the film being unrestorable were largely because the animation houses in Korea junked a lot of material, which is a shame but not a crippling loss. The rumors also came about because Disney didn't really want to do it.

The film is easily restorable by anyone using the three commonly known cuts of the film, and there is great deal more material out there that wasn't included in those cuts but was done and is ready to go. (Calvert would had to have kept, at the very least, all the Thief scenes included in the end titles, which is a damn good start, and certainly Williams kept what he could.) It would be an easy job. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

The thing is, does Disney really want to do it? Would they do it right? Would Williams cooperate?





-- This is insane. I can watch this movie a million times and still spot new things.

In the war machine sequence, the Thief is launched through the air and for a few frames you get a close glimpse of the flies that have been buzzing around his head the whole film.

All the flies are little Thief heads with wings, and big smiles on their faces. They're even wearing tiny Thief robes ....
Post
#185355
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185355/action/topic#185355
Time
I don't want to talk this up too much until I actually see the cuts and know what I'm talking about ...


But it does seem like the work in progress Calvert cut is a longer cut ... which is exciting. I'm really hoping that it contains the extra Thief scenes which only appear in the Calvert credits. (The Thief's assault on the buddha ruby with springs on his feet, and extra footage as the Thief steals the emerald.)
Post
#185325
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185325/action/topic#185325
Time
>>I just recieved a DVD-R of the 1980's workprint today and now I see that you're working on a much better edit. I can't wait to see this finished. After viewing the blurry workprint tape, I was blown away by how amazing the animation looks in your trailer.

And my workprint is also slightly better than the one that's out there. I hope this new workprint I'm getting in is even better ...

>>Did you ever find out what the rest of the source music was (like March of the One Eyes)? I've been looking for the title of the music for months and not even music researchers I've talked to know what it is!

Richard Williams is a jazz musician, so it's possible that he created some of the music himself, or had somebody do it.

>>Also, was the scene with "Oh Phido, how could I forget? I fear you haven't eaten yet." and Zig-Zag walking down the staircase ever fully animated?

I am 90% certain that it wasn't. Obviously the end of it, and Phido, made it to pencil test form. Maybe the whole thing made it to pencil test form.

With the rest of this scene, it's clear that Williams finished it in pencil form, and inked a couple of shots (including everything with Phido), and then Fred Calvert's team inked/colored it, rather poorly.

You can tell the difference between a Williams Zigzag shot and a Calvert Zigzag shot by looking at Zigzag's eyes. Williams' Zigzag has a thick dark green outline around the eyes, with lighter green in the middle and a black pupil, which makes it look like a real eye. Calvert skips the green outline, so he just has light green eyes with a black pupil.

Williams animated Zigzag himself .... and finished pretty much everything as pencils at the very least .... so we get a lot of Williams pencils colored by Calvert's team, with varying levels of success.


I wouldn't say the film suffers terribly without the "eating Tack in prison" subplot that got cut, but I love Yumyum's reaction to Phido - "Get away, bird of evil!" I would kill to see these scenes animated. Wish I knew for sure what had and hadn't been animated .... but I can guess .... Calvert didn't touch these scenes, so that reduces the likelihood that these shots were finished.


Big news here - I should be getting in some works in progress of the Calvert cut, which haven't been seen before - one of them is poor quality but widescreen.

Looks like the quality of this cut just took a step up.
Post
#185187
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185187/action/topic#185187
Time
I saved my completed part 1 edit in its original format, PhotoJPEG (miniDV would have looked awful for this film!). I have it on a few data DVDs here.


If a better copy of the workprint comes in, I'll have to painstakingly hack my original edit, for part 1.


I'll keep part 2 open. The entire movie is nearly finished at this point. Heh, typical.


This source was friends with a guy who worked on the Calvert cut, hence his having unusual edits ...
Post
#185125
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185125/action/topic#185125
Time
It's always the way, isn't it?

Now that I'm on the last leg of editing this, doing some really hard work and not far off from done ... a guy writes me to say he has a few different versions of the film, probably better than I have and a couple of versions I haven't even seen ... works in progress of the Calvert cut ...

Very exciting indeed --- even if it might mean doing some of this over again!
Post
#184951
Topic
FAN EDIT REQUEST THREAD - Post your dream Fan Edits Here!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/184951/action/topic#184951
Time
As posted in another thread:

It would be nice to do a fan edit of The Muppet Movie. There's a really obscure cut out there which is longer - I only have it in Pan & Scan and in terrible quality, wish I had it better, as it has a longer version of "I hope that something better comes along", and most notably a better ending - the Muppets talk over the credits! Really amusing, nice stuff there. I think that the ending is actually the same edit visually, only the sound is different (with the Muppets being audible as they talk) ... So it would be possible to make that change easily, just that one change to the ending. Hm.

In the Classic Jedi thread, I discuss the best way to do an extended fan edit of Army of Darkness. I did one years ago. You have to use the Hong Kong DVD, as it's the best quality out there, and "hack" it, a la the Classic Editions. For most of the movie you bypass your editing software and put the raw M2V files directly into your DVD program (DVD Studio Pro), then only edit the extra deleted scenes (the four from the Television cut and Anchor Bay discs). Extend the opening with a bit from Evil Dead 2, and include both endings via seamless branching.
Post
#184947
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/184947/action/topic#184947
Time
The F word gag (and the word "ass") is in the workprint. Williams did like to push the boundaries a bit. He was making sort of PG animated films "for everyone." He snuck a few things into Roger Rabbit too of course. In the Thief, there are a lot of little double entendres with the word "balls", some of which Miramax cut ... and the rather odd character of the Witch (who sniffs gas - or "mystic fumes" and lights a match to blow herself up). There's also the matter of the King's entanglement with a "Maiden from Mombasa."



With regards to matting the top and bottom of the shot, that would ruin the shots beyond belief. They're very cramped in the pan & scan to begin with.


I've done "window boxing" on some of the shots ... presented them pretty large and uncropped, with black bars on the left and right. You'll get used to it!
Post
#184768
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/184768/action/topic#184768
Time
Hmmm .... speaking of using the Princess audio for this edit ...


It sounds to my ears like, for the most part, they actually kept Joan Sims' original voice for the witch.

- Update - Yep, Joan Sims is credited, along with Mona Marshall who did the extra lines. (Toni Collette in the Miramax edit.)


That comes in very handy, as the witch audio is awful. I'll go ahead and replace it with the Princess material where possible.



Oh .... on the subject of swearing in this movie .... I hadn't really noticed before, but one of the Brigands clearly says "Get your ass down. Get it down."

Nice.

The Nurse was allowed to say "ass" in the script, so I guess that makes it official. Along with the gag where Zigzag stops himself saying the "f" word.


Brings it one step farther away from Disney.