Aalenfae,
Any new news?
Anxiously awaiting your release ;)
(I understand real life time-tables though, so no worries - don't feel rushed)
Dethryl said:
I think having a Jedi with a red lightsaber IS a pretty radical idea. The audience is not so simplistic that is needs these visual cues. Best part of the EU is that Leia has a red lightsaber.
Absolutely, I will agree that a Jedi having a red lightsaber is a very radical idea for a fanedit.
Personally, however, I am a fan of these visual cues, even such simplistic ones. It would solidify his character to the audience at the end of the movie and show that it's tragic the good guys are fighting "another good guy" without having to say it again. If he whipped out a red lightsaber, the average Star Wars audience member would think, "Oh, maybe he was bad this whole time..." Then their Star Wars guru friend (everyone has one) would have to explain that just because it's red it doesn't mean he's bad...
On that note, hypothetically, if you would keep the Episode 2 Geonosis arena with all of the Jedi, would you change some of their saber colors to red as well? Would it be a normal choice at that point for Jedi or would it be something rare in the films, to see a Jedi with a red lightsaber (during this period in the Republic)? I know the movies pretty well, but almost nothing of the EU so I don't know the details behind having red over the others - just curious.
Having said all that, fanedits aren't exactly for the average Star Wars audience member, are they, and this is the radical ideas thread... ;)
Your Rogue Jedi idea for Dooku; is it similar to what I remember reading before/wrote above or was it something different? I'd like to hear more about that if you have thought about it some more.
Dethryl said:
...but I would definitely have Dooku as a rogue Jedi...Thoughts?
(Sorry for the double post, but this is a separate issue so I wanted to separate them)
I saw the idea elsewhere on this site, so it's not my own, but I loved it. (not sure what of the following, if any, is my idea, but want to give credit elsewhere just in case - the general idea is definitely not mine)
Dooku is a rogue Jedi, and actually not corrupt at all, (however, presented to the audience as bad in the beginning, an unknown entity) who senses the Sith in the Senate. Dooku tries to warn the Jedi Council of this corruption but they don't sense it. So, Dooku leaves the Order and then decides to (either of his own volition or by the influence of Palpatine - it doesn't even have to be defined though) start a Separatist faction that could battle the Senate and rid the Sith corruption from the Senate.
Basically Dooku's speech to Ob-wan on Geonosis is true, and Dooku is on the right side.
Now, how much of his character has changed being a Rogue Jedi and no longer under the Order, is up for debate. I think he would be a man who has had to make his own rules and rethink his beliefs after years of being "brainwashed" - from his point of view. He would be a little impulsive, untrusting of any Jedi, yet reserved and contemplative at the same time. Is the entire Jedi Order under the influence of the Sith? How long has this been going on? Is the Jedi Order in and of itself, evil and manipulative? How much of his own training can he trust in? These are the debates that would be constantly waging war in his own mind.
I would also have Dooku's lightsaber not be red... this sort of man wouldn't adopt that color. He might change his original to show his distancing from the Order, but not to red. If it would be remotely applicable and accepted anywhere, purple COULD be used in this instance, however I'm still on the fence about that particular color. And hey, this is the radical ideas thread :)
Dethryl, I really like your ideas to the plot changes of episode 1 and 2. I'm going to think about your Episode 2 thoughts some more since a lot of those ideas would work with what I've been brainstorming.
I've also been following some of the other Episode 3 edits over the past few months (Aalenfae, BobGarcia, theCutter) with great interest as again, a lot of the same thoughts have been going through my head in the past decade... (I just don't have the skill to pull off what they're doing, ha)
Here is a very, very brief summary of my ideas for the sequels mixed with some other thoughts I've seen around:
(All of these ideas were made with the assumption I could not re-cast Anakin and Padme and re-shoot entire scenes... so to work with what we have currently available - otherwise I have some different ideas...)
Episode 1:
George Lucas' episode 2. (Radical enough? ;P) (GL's Episode 1 is so bad I don't see a point in saving it as a narrative. What really happens we would need to keep? It then can be used cut up for other sequence fillers for the rest of the trilogy)
Anakin is just a young Jedi in training; however, he and Padme have been having a secret "friendship" since a chance meeting earlier in both of their lives. (Still a need for a chosen one prophecy at all?) There is a Separatist faction growing amongst the Republic and the Republic feels the strain of a possibility of war. (All semi-explained in the title crawl)
I feel the story starting this way semi-mimics Luke in A New Hope. Both Luke and Anakin are not fully happy with where they are in life, there is backstory to their character that we don't have all the details, they're both a little whiny, it just fits.
The main plot line would be how Anakin and Padme's relationship develops, followed by the Separatist subplot/creation of Clone army. This ends with Anakin and Padme's secret marriage on Naboo.
Episode 2:
First half of GL's Episode 3. The main plot would be Anakin's relationship with Palpatine and his subsequent fall to the dark side. Slow and deliberate manipulation by Palaptine. (add in a some of the deleted scenes) My initial thought was to keep his fall over trying to save Padme from death - the dream Anakin had was planted by Palpatine to force Anakin to seek out more power.
This ends with Mace's death and Anakin's "birth" as Darth Vader. The subplot would be Obi-wan hunting down Grievous.
Episode 3:
Second half of GL's Episode 3. The main plot would be Darth Vader's hunting down of the Jedi and the end of the clone wars. (Separatists killed or just a mention of loss - similar to how the Senate is dissolved in Episode 4) The subplot would be the creation of the Empire and the creation of the Rebellion mirroring each other. (again, add in deleted scenes)
This would end with the Mustafar battle and Padme being taken to Alderaan to give birth. The kids are split up to prevent Vader from sensing their presence too easily, Obi takes Luke to Tatooine.
In a very small nutshell, that's been my idea ever since I saw Episode 3 on opening day. GL's Episode 3 should have been Episodes 2-3...
Some details here and there:
-The Anakin and Padme relationship develops "behind the scenes" even though it's the main plot of my Episode 1. What I mean is that it wouldn't seem so forced and in the audience's face. Some of their Naboo scenes would be dubbed over with Obi-wan, Mace, and Yoda's worries about Anakin. That way a lot of the horrible dialogue and delivery can be swept away but you still see Anakin and Padme's love blossoming through their interactions.
-The fall of Anakin in my Episode 1-2 would be very painful for him and the audience needs to connect with and feel his mental debate and confusion. He is very much a tragic character that is being slowly influenced and twisted by Palpatine. Do away with as much whiny Anakin as possible. Anakin's fall needs to be about persuasion and a choice he doesn't want to make.
-Yoda never even having a lightsaber in the prequels is a good thing. After all, his ally is the force, and a powerful ally it is... I'm not opposed to Yoda fighting, but he needs to emanate power and confidence when he does so, using the force. ie: Clone troopers force pushed dozens of yards back with a simple move of his hand.
-Obi-wan and Anakin duel trimmed to not be ridiculous or overdone (theatrical state - it's both) - but still needs to be emotionally charged.
-Something I would love to see, is the return of the Yoda and Palpatine confrontation. But not in it's current form... I was told that in the books, the Emperor was tossing buildings and ships at Yoda filled with innocent people. Yoda doesn't lose the fight so much as he retreats in order to save innocent life. Whether or not this happens in the books is irrelevant to me as it would fit with the main understanding that the Dark side is NOT stronger, but instead is 'less' power unrestrained. The fact that Yoda loses in the theatrical Episode 3 shows that even after 900 years of training, a Light side user isn't as powerful as a few decade old (assuming) Dark side user... I want to see that Yoda could have easily taken Palpatine if he was willing to sacrifice innocent lives but instead makes a conscience decision to back off. (Han Solo and Leia being tortured in ESB is not the same as they weren't necessarily "innocent" - or maybe Yoda learns from his fight with the Emperor that you sometimes need to sacrifice?) Yoda not even trying to fight Palpatine or LOSING to him completely negates any power Yoda is supposed to project to the audience.
Anyway, those are a few of my ideas (there are more, but this is long enough). If anyone would like to collaborate on a project like this, I'm willing! I can edit if a CG artist out there is bored ;) Just know I have 3 kids under 2.5 so anything I work on will take time - if any editor wants to give these ideas a shot on their own, go for it! I'm still in the brainstorming stage of my edits anyway, getting all the loopholes sorted out...
aalenfae said:
Ah, yes - how he knows. I've actually moved this scene to after Palpatine's reveal. Though it's hard to see in just one unfinished scene, I want to depict that Anakin is already sort of in-league with Palpatine's before he "officially" turns.
Last night I moved the "plot to destroy the Jedi" line to earlier in the scene, and it seems a lot less like he's delivering an obvious line.
I've also intercut some more Anakin musings, as well as Palpatine communicating to him through the Force. It both further justifies Anakin's action, and pads the scene out so it doesn't feel so rushed. I think it works pretty well, and I'll have an updated clip up fairly soon.
Sounds great! I like the idea of more Palpatine influence experienced by the viewer. I'm looking forward to it as well!
Aalenfae, you mentioned getting Padme to Alderaan: what about Padme delivering the twins on Alderaan in the first place? (haven't figured out all the details of why is she dying, and could this work with Anakin Jedi hunting before Mustafar, etc - but who better to figure those details out than this group...)
I actually don't think a reason needs to be given for how and why Padme dies. She goes to Alderaan in hiding with Bail, and we can assume from Leia's words in ROTJ that she dies young from grief. This happens in "real life" as emotional and mental stresses can cause people to just let go... Sometimes everything doesn't have to be explained to still be a good story :) That way you can also do away with Medical Droid lines completely if you wanted to.
Side note: Anakin's dreams of Padme dying in childbirth don't have to become a reality to still have an impact emotionally; enhanced by the fact that she lived (if on Alderaan) while he thinks she died. Also thinking logically, Anakin's dreams, from his point of view, never became a reality since he killed her before she gave birth.
Regarding that vision: a view that came up with discussions amongst my friends was that those dreams were planted there by the Emperor to encourage Anakin to seek the power needed to save her. They weren't necessarily completely true or only his to begin with - perhaps the Emperor just expounded Anakin's own fears of loss? Again, in my opinion, it doesn't need to be explained to be good.
Keep up the great work Aalenfae! I know we're all looking forward to seeing your progress as things develop!
BarBar Jinkx said:
I always HATED the way SLJ delivered the line "A Sith lord?" and in any edit I do that is usually the first thing to go! have you tried the scene without it?
Hi Aalenfae, first off, I've been watching this thread (and Bob's) closely anxiously awaiting these releases, thank you for your time and efforts! Things are looking great!
Second off, in the above mentioned quoted text, what about having SLJ say "A Sith...." and his voice trails off in contemplation? Have a worried look on his face after the line delivery? (slow down audio/video for greatest effect - but not so much to look like it's slowed down - just more of a silent pause as the full force of this revelation hits him - no pun intended)
Also, what do you think about SLJ's "I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi." especially in this recent edit? Do you feel that it is necessary exposition for the later Windu/Palp fight when Windu feels the need to murder him? Or is it redundant with Anakin's revelation?
Thanks again for your hard work, I'm really looking forward to this edit!