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msycamore

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Join date
20-Aug-2008
Last activity
1-Nov-2017
Posts
3,166

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Post
#508270
Topic
"White Magic 0.2" or, how to enhance LD captures and live happy ;-)
Time

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Back to the JSC, AFAIK it has the "shrinkin' problem", that is not present on the SWE, isn't true? If so, I could manage to capture the SWE trilogy with my Pioneer HLD-X9 and improve the quality with my "white magic"... the only problem is, between my dozen SW OUT LDs I have NOT the SWE!!! 

No, you got that wrong. It is the Special Widescreen Edition of ANH that has the "shrinkin' ratio problem", not the Japanese Special Collection.

But, the Special Widescreen Edition was released in a different pressing by Technidisc in '93 from a different master which we were talking about here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Smear-free-93/topic/12190/

Post
#508038
Topic
"White Magic 0.2" or, how to enhance LD captures and live happy ;-)
Time

Moth3r said:

Although personally I don't think it's that big a problem, certainly nowhere near as bad as the crushed blacks on the '04 DVD.

Yeah, it may have been overkill of me to put it that way, also the '04 transfers even manage to have both clipped whites and crushed blacks in them. ;) But still, it's an unfortunate problem that the JSC don't have.

Post
#507944
Topic
Lucas' Hypocrisy Strikes Again
Time

doubleofive said:

Here's my new favorite Lucas quote:

Cinefex said:


On your special edition, do you expect any backlash from fan who might resent your tampering with a classic?
I don’t know. It’s my classic. On the one hand I’m doing this, while on the other I’m on the Artists Rights Board, a foundation that’s trying to protect films from being changed - which I feel very strongly about, because with the technology we have today, anybody can go back and do this kind of thing. I can sort of see the future, and I want to protect films as they are and as they should be. I don’t want to see them colorized, I don’t want to see their formats changed, I don’t want to see them reedited, and I don’t want to see what I’m able to do now, which is add more characters and do all kinds of things that nobody even contemplated before.


Emphasis mine.

That is the most disturbing quote from Lucas I've ever read, in which Cinefex did you find this?

This man need some medical attention!

Post
#507932
Topic
Treadwell Collection
Time

none said:

msycamore wrote: Is this still seeded somewhere?

Doesn't show up in th'spleen unseeded.  Can ask walkingdork over in this thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Once-upon-a-time-on-MySpleen/topic/12652/page/5/

 Ah, ok. will do, thanks! :)

none said:

Yeah these would only added better clarification on font/shadow choice.  We didn't know the tape existed when you started working unfortunately.  Did they use the same font for all three films?

Some of the subtitled sections (7 or so) got picked up in this automated screen cap guide:

http://fd.noneinc.com/Theater_Performance/1983-TWC328_ROTJB-1.html

examples: (1/4th reduced)

Yes, they seem to have used the same font for both films as far as I can see, they do however look a little different due to being done in the analog age I presume. Just like the Lucasfilm logo, SW logo or the preface look slightly different in each film:

SW

Jedi

^ Seems to be the same font-family at least.

Post
#507902
Topic
Star Wars OT & 1997 Special Edition - Various Projects Info (Released)
Time

dark_jedi said:

LMAO! Yea, that is a real fair comparison, while Harmy's is sourced from the SE HD broadcasts, mine is sourced from the GOUT DVD, so what exactly is this comparison going to tell you anyways? I am curious to know.

I will actually say that your GOUT upscale look better than the SE HD source. Yes, the HD is technically superior, have higher resolution, less compression etc. but in terms of overall look the Gout upscale wins, it even have more detail in some places where the HD-source is blown out (stormtrooper helmet) but this is only a screen-cap afterall.

Nicely done d_j!

Post
#507869
Topic
"White Magic 0.2" or, how to enhance LD captures and live happy ;-)
Time

It's not bad at all _,,,^..^,,,_ , I just thought I would bring this issue up as I think your screen-caps show a lot of promise, unfortunately I suspect that the clipped white is a flaw in the PAL - master as well, but I could be wrong of course. Somehow I'm not able to download your samples?! :(

So what exactly is this script you call white magic?

Post
#507862
Topic
Treadwell Collection
Time

none said:

Rikter's "BLAK0009: The 1975 Casting Auditions" is probably high up on completeness and quality scales.  (but I don't think i've seen an alternative DVD version) 

.nfo details: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-The-Torrents-thread/post/93050/#TopicPost93050

Nice, thanks for the tip! I knew you would somehow sit on that knowledge. ;) Is this still seeded somewhere?

none said: 

How have some of these finds helped out with the subtitle recreations?

I was actually able to make a nice recreation of the Jedi - subs thanks to Videocollector's "theatrical performance bootleg" and indirectly thanks to you and LexX. :) Haven't checked out these yet, I already have all the correct timings in place, but these seems to be in nice quality, especially the Jedi going by the screen-cap, if I only had that quality when I did work on it. I'll definitely check these out.

Post
#507791
Topic
"White Magic 0.2" or, how to enhance LD captures and live happy ;-)
Time

Orinoco_Womble said:

Nice example Msycamore.  Every time I see examples like that I feel just that little bit more annoyed at old georgie and all the guys at Lucas Film.

Yeah, the fact that they haven't yet released the trilogy in decent quality no matter in what shitty resolution makes you really mad, every single release have had its own set of little problems.

A few other examples of the horribly blown out whites in the THX-masters:

JSC (V8)

GOUT

JSC (d_j)

GOUT

As mentioned earlier, the JSC isn't perfect either but you can definitely see the problem with the white level in these examples, something I think is often overlooked when it comes to these THX transfers, it's also one of the reasons they look so flat and colorless.

Post
#507709
Topic
Preserving the "German" Original Trilogy (Released)
Time

grisan said: 

The idea to sync the german audio to the NTSC version is something I wanted to do myself if I decide to make a german theatrical version with the original german crawl and end credits.

 

If something like that is ever attempted keep in mind the different framecounts between the NTSC and PAL versions of GOUT http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/457548/#TopicPost457548 so you don't end up with the audio going out of sync.

Post
#507701
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Ok, I think I'm done with my info text regarding the various versions. I will upload the Italian Cut probably to myspleen as soon as you send me a Italian translation of the text erri_wan.


- The different versions of THX 1138 -


When THX 1138 was originally released in 1971, it was in a hacked apart - 81 minutes long version after the studio Warner Bros had taken the film away from George Lucas and cut 4-5 minutes from it without Lucas' approval, mostly scenes in the "white limbo" and some of the films bizarre humor were taken out. According to a furious Lucas in '71, Warner had also changed parts of the films sound design by Walter Murch. This original theatrical release version have never been available on video.


Even though THX 1138 was released in UK and France in 1971, it wasn't released in Italy until 1976, then under the title "L'uomo Che Fuggì Dal Futuro", literally translated: "The Man Who Escaped From The Future". How much this cut resembles the "Warner Bros-cut" released five years earlier in terms of editing is hard to tell, but both cuts are approximately 81 minutes in lenght. The editing is much different than what we would later see in the "restored cut," besides having many scenes missing obviously, the most significant differences are:

* The film opens with a segment of the chase sequence from the end of the film narrated by THX himself complete with an added background story in place over the title sequence, it's like it sort of trying to tell the whole film as it was projected through THX mind, a flashback or perhaps like THX himself describes it in the narration "I want to leave a telepathic message so that posterity will know my real story..." Oddly enough the narration is never picked up in the film ever again.

* The scenes where LUH visit THX in detention where they make love and the medical examinations of THX, both occurs before we see his trial, which makes the context of the scenes and the following scenes leading up to him being put in prison quite different. What is interesting is that this is the order the scenes appear in the shooting draft, which suggests that this may not have been an editing decision made by Warner after all, if this actually was presented this way in the '71 theatrical release that is.

* SEN's conversation with the children is slightly longer.
 
Besides the different editing, the Italian dubbing is sometimes very poor with translation errors in a few places, making the plot confusing in some parts. In addition to the previously mentioned opening narration, the dubbing also alters the story and plot in many other ways throughout the film, sometimes new concepts are added to the film and sometimes the dialogue is just completely different. Much of the editing is probably a reflection of the "Warner Bros-cut", but the story differences and concepts that occur in the dubbing is more likely liberties taken by "Societa Italiana Distribuzione Films" which was the distributor for it in Italy. This was oddly enough the only version available on video in Italy until the "2004-Director's Cut" was released and replaced it, this time the dubbing was more faithful to the source material. In conclusion, George Lucas' "restored cut" was never released in Italy.


It wasn't until 1978, after George Lucas' enormous succes with Star Wars the previous year that Lucas was able to finally re-release it for a limited time in a fully restored cut. This version restored the 4-5 min of previously cut scenes, making it approximately 86 minutes in length. It was later released on video rental in 1982. This version was widely available on Betamax, VHS and Laserdisc through the 80's and 90's, the last release was on VHS in 1996, it has not yet been released on any new video formats.


1978 was also the year the film had its TV-premiere in West Germany, this broadcast and an American/English 16mm print has revealed that yet another version exists, it is basically identical to the "Restored Cut" but it includes the slightly longer scene when SEN is talking with the children and the same re-ordering of scenes seen in the Italian version.


Finally in 2004, a new version was released in theaters for a short limited time and released on DVD and later Blu-ray under the banner "The George Lucas Director's Cut", which is a rather silly title when he already had basically released his director's cut in 1978. Anyway, this version is approximately 88 minutes in length, using alternate takes, have a much different editing which even alter the story in subtle ways, utilizing modern CGI etc. Lucas even let new footage be shot and even reshot several scenes using computer systems to insert the actors and replace existing footage. While interesting in its own way, this is the only version currently available on modern video formats.

 

* 1971 Original Theatrical Release - approx.81 min
* 1976 Italian Cut - approx.81 min
* 1978 Restored Cut - approx.86 min
* 1978 German TV-Broadcast - approx.86 min
* 2004 The George Lucas Director's Cut - approx.88 min

 

Btw, IMM in the end credits isn't an error of OMM I previously pointed out, it's an entirely different character credited in the US version as well, it's only SEN who is typed wrong as JEN.

Post
#507539
Topic
"White Magic 0.2" or, how to enhance LD captures and live happy ;-)
Time

Going by those screen-caps it looks way too oversharpened and with clipped white levels even worse than on the GOUT-transfer. The detail seems pretty damn good though.

The clipped white levels in the GOUT is also one of the reasons they look horrible, maybe the PAL LD's share that same flaw.

An example of what I'm talking about...

JSC (V8) - this one is a little too dull but you get the idea

GOUT - lost detail on the droid

The clipped white levels in the GOUT is almost as bad as the crushed black levels in the '04 DVD, it would be nice to somehow merge the luma from the JSC with the chroma from the THX LD's/GOUT.

Post
#506967
Topic
Info & Offer: Does anybody still need any LD captured?
Time

Jonno said:

It's quite hard to say at the moment - the only proper review so far skips the issue of the film's history of revisions entirely, and just gives a neutral commentary on this disc's AV qualities. From comments on the angry HTF thread it sounds as if this might be derived from the same HD master prepared for the previous DVD, so content-wise it will in all probability be the same.

Well, I recently watched the new blu-ray and I can confirm that no further tweaks have been done as far as I can see, it's the extended 25th anniversary edition and it looks fantastic IMO, the warmer color pallette is back and the great audio mix is left untouched. :)

Here's a nice blu-ray vs DVD comparison: http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?vergleich=american_graffiti 

Do anyone know if the original opening shot was part matte painting?

The reason I'm asking is that I recently noticed that some objects on the background building in the opening shot isn't visible later on in the film:

The angle is of course different but I think you would at least see the sign back there, was a matte used in this shot or could it be another 1998 digital tweak?

The tweaked opening shot removed more than that sign though:

Post
#505211
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Yeah, I've read about that short and it's influence on Lucas and THX, but I've never seen it. Cool... didn't know about the cell-nr homage or it never crossed my mind. :)

Edit: I found it http://www.nfb.ca/film/21-87/

Quite brilliant I must say, you can clearly see and hear the influences it had on Lucas, also Walter Murch's sound design. Thanks for the heads up skyjedi, I've wanted to see that for a long time, and know I stumbled upon it immediately. ;)

Post
#505127
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Thank you guys. Also, you have the line previous to that "Give them the answer." written as it is spoken by a different person, is it not the same person delivering those lines? to me it sounds like it is. If that's the case should it be:

"Give them the answer."

"LUH 3417 destroyed on date 21/87..."

or

"Give them the answer,"

"LUH 3417 destroyed on date 21/87..."

or

"Give them the answer:"

"LUH 3417 destroyed on date 21/87..."

Btw, how was the quality on the Italian version you downloaded erri_wan, was it any different, same broadcast?