captainsolo said:
If you really scrutinize it the smearing on the Reivax isn't too horrible in motion. Still frustrating though.
I strongly disagree, the motion-trailing and smear is even worse than on the GOUT transfer in many parts and that is horrible.
captainsolo said:
Odd, I don't know how 10 second clips could be a preview.
Probably a TV-spot like Silver suggested.
captainsolo said:
Well, wouldn't they have to recrop anyway due to PAL having a larger frame size than NTSC?
Yeah you're probably right, I guess so.
Have some computer problem at the moment, need to re-install everything before I can try out AfterEffects.
I just had to... this comparison disturbs me on so many levels. GOUT was released in 2006, if the guy who wrote it refer to the original year of release it should be 1983. ;) Secondly, it's not the same visual effects in the original film as in the SE, hence not exactly the same shot. Third, the '93 THX transfer is not a good example in how that shot is supposed to look, that transfer is horribly green tinted in many of those space battle shots.
But in the end it's all pretty pointless when the last thing Lucas want is to make his new edits look anything like the original films, don't be surprised when the colortiming differ in his new video releases when the goal of these versions wasn't to replicate the original color pallette in the first place. (not to be confused with the various glitches in the 2004-master of course;)
The day when the original films get released (if it ever happens) is when I will start to bitch about colors if something looks funny, these fake versions isn't even worth the energy.
Maybe they did it because they noticed how badly affected some of the scenes were because of the bad cropping that was made in this part of the film and not for the dirt, the PAL transfer basically show the same amount of picture information to the right of the frame as the NTSC frames I posted when taking the overscan of a CRT-TV into consideration. But they also recropped the rest of the film which doesn't make any sense if that was the main reason, maybe to get rid of the "light-artifact" seen throughout the film.
Not sure about how these things work, do they just crop/frame the same telecine differently for the PAL regions? I actually don't know when the framing takes place in the process. It looks to be the same telecine session, same dirt marks and everything. I guess Coily was probably on the print or IP.
The framing is zoomed in, losing picture information on all sides on the PAL LD except when Coily appears, then the PAL suddenly have even more info than the NTSC, so it's damn nice we have it to work with. Even if I'm not able to get rid of it, it will be much less distracting as half of him is gone already with this transfer. :)
LexX said:
Ewoks films on DVD has it but not sure if they're exactly the same.
Probably not as they weren't exactly the same between the three SW-films either. Are the logos displayed against a black background on those? The classic Raiders featurette on DVD has one, but I think the quality on that one is even worse.
If you want to be really anal about it you could perhaps restore the original preface to Empire and Jedi using the broadcasted '97 special editions. Empire used the same preface as Star Wars so I understand why you used GOUT-SW as it was from a better source, but maybe the broadcasted '97 versions yields even better results for a possible future version, at least for Jedi. Just a thought I had. Just avoid ANH as it was redone in '97 for some reason. I guess the Lucasfilm - logos will be harder to find in better resolution though, the only way I can think of is a very well made capture of a Pan & Scan LD or a scan of an actual print. ;) I don't know, maybe the GOUT-upscale you used looking good enough or better than using the '97 sources.
EMPIRE
JEDI
Here's a comparison with the fine transfer Jaitea provided, this will be a much better alternative than splicing in DVD footage. I'll see if I can apply some sharpening without introducing halos, Jaitea was kind to make more than one capture, so the results can be very nice. :)
US
UK
US
UK
US
UK
US
UK
US
UK
I am almost tempted to make separate releases of the PAL LD and US LD with their different pros and cons but I think I will be happy with a combination. The framing/cropping is much better in the PAL transfer only in this part of the movie, the roles are reversed in the rest of the film where the NTSC is much better. Now, I will finally try to get rid of that thing I have as my avatar. ;)
You can see another variation of Mark with that cannon when he wears his pilot helmet in Rinzler's new making of book, the cannon is mounted on those small vehicles that were going to be seen in the battle against the AT-AT's.
Seen down in the left corner:
Got the PAL-LD captures from Jaitea today! :) They look excellent from what I've seen so far, will post some comparisons for you soon...
hairy_hen, I have forgotten to ask you about this, in the cantina around the 45:16 mark, some creature vocalization was added in the Mono mix, (also added to the THX re-mix) I noticed that you got rid of some of it in your re-creation but not all. Any particular reason behind that decision or was part of it really heard in the six-track? I can't say I hear it in the in-theatre reference I have.
I don't know if your method of capturing is "primitive", you should be able to easily get pretty good results this way. Never captured LD's myself, but I guess the quality of player, recorder and cables will ultimately decide the outcome, but have you tried to use S-Video instead of composite? heard the results can be better than composite on some players. Maybe there is also some other settings in either the player or the recorder that could improve your results besides the recording mode you described.
An easy way to spot the blown out white levels I described in the other thread is the snowy mountains when the Falcon fly from Hoth with Luke in the foreground. But this could perhaps be how the LD transfer look and not something in your set-up.
Maybe you're able to find some info regarding your player on this site: http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/default.htm
Tobar said:
The other two issues I noticed were audio ones. I don't know what was used as the audio source but it seemed as if there was a channel missing or something.
I noticed most when Luke sold his speeder and that stilt alien walked by. In every other audio mix of ANH I've ever heard he always made a weird quackish shout as he walked past but this mix didn't have it all. I also noticed during the trash compactor scene the sound of Chewie banging on the door is missing as well.
Those sound effects weren't in the 35mm and 70mm Dolby Stereo tracks. They first appeared in the Mono mix.
Harmy said:
If you want to see it in motion, there is a YouTube clip here:
A huge improvement.
Harmy said:
Good news, everyone!!! I spent quite some time looking for the original 70s 20th Century Fox logo present in the original SW in HD and today, I got the original MASH movie on Blu and found out that it's there, so I'll be able to use it :-)
I already had the 80s Fox logo used in Jedi in HD from the D-Box Alien DC, so now I'll be able to use an actual HD Fox logo in SW as well.
Almost, if you want to be extra picky about it, that Fox logo lacks the registered trademark symbol that was added to it in the seventies. If you need an exact match in HD, the release of Alien on Blu-ray got it.
Haven't seen it in motion, but the speeder entering Mos Eisley looks almost perfectly restored on that still you provided, incredible! :)
I did take a look at your SWE sample, and it is definitely much more video noise on your capture than I am able to see on my actual LD, not a fair way of comparing perhaps but it seems like it has been over-sharpened, hence all the aggressive noise popping out at you, the edge-enhancement, blown out whites is definitely not a thing I can see on my LD. I don't know, maybe that pressing is worse afterall as your SE LD did look quite alright. I can still see more horizontal detail on yours which is weird. You should perhaps take this to the how to section or making a separate thread.
Have to correct myself here... I am actually not 100% sure if the source was the same for the Beta/VHS tapes (don't own my Beta tape any longer), I recall that the '82 Laserdisc transfer have at least some different choices compared to the tapes in the Pan & Scan framing, so the same transfer wasn't used for the tapes. Anyway, the IP/film elements used for the JSC was definitely used in making the first LD release in '82, how uninteresting that info may be. ;)
The Aluminum Falcon said:
You can download my new DVD at:
I'll take a look.
The Aluminum Falcon said:
They could still be made from the same master, the Emperor hologram in the GOUT doesn't have the scanlines visible even though they are on the US '93 DC LD.
This was just a side question, but are there differences between the GOUT and the DC? Sorry I just didn't know this. Are the GOUT and Faces an exact match then (minus the ANH/SW crawl change of course)?
See here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Complete-Comparison-of-Special-Edition-Visual-Changes/post/452971/#TopicPost452971
and here for some examples: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-X-Project-Laserdisc-on-Steroids-SEE-FIRST-POST-FOR-UPDATES/post/487450/#TopicPost487450
It shows that there is more detail present on the masters they were made from. Even how bad these old transfers are, the 2006 DVD's could at least have looked a little better if they were done right.
Looking very nice, good job Ady!
The Aluminum Falcon said:
Okay, so I checked your post and it seems that my strangling scene does more closely match the GOUT, with more vertical scan lines. That's weird since I thought the SWE and the JSC were from the same master...
They could still be made from the same master, the Emperor hologram in the GOUT doesn't have the scanlines visible even though they are on the US '93 DC LD, these variations seen are all various shortcomings in different video releases and not actual visual changes done to the film. But I have to admit, why the vertical scanlines on that communication screen isn't visible on my Pioneer pressing but is on yours is a little odd.
The Aluminum Falcon said:
Has anyone checked the video I posted yet? I'd be interested in your thoughts. It shows the GOUT-similar strangling scene and the JSC-similar Emperor scene (preceeded by the Officers scene). At the end, I tacked on the Cave scene just so you can get an idea of the quality of my laserdisc transfer.
It hasn't been IVTC'ed and the audio somehow got out of sync, but I think the video is all right for being able to observe the scan lines.
Note it's similarity to the JSC, as should be...
In any case, I'm not sure if the SWE has more detail or if it's simply a different master all together.
Thoughts?
I looked at your sample, and to be honest with you... it looks very bad, in which way did you capture it? maybe someone with more knowledge in the field of LD-capturing could give you some suggestions on what to do to get some better results, there is some very nasty artifacts on it. I doubt that sample represents the overall look of your LD, my Pioneer pressing looks pretty damn good and there's no reason your Mitsubishi pressing should look any different if it weren't for in the way you captured it.
BTW. the Vader hologram you posted looks identical in every video release I've seen of the original film, it's only on Puggo's super-8 it looks a little different, probably due to blown out white levels.
The same font was used for the US original, you can also try to use "Trade Gothic", not a perfect match either, the actual font they used was probably altered a little bit when it got digitized.
The Aluminum Falcon said:
Is there any way of positively indentifying it?
You can check the mint marks here: http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/00873/1425-85/Star-Wars:-The-Empire-Strikes-Back-(1980)
The Aluminum Falcon said:
Oh crap. The cap I posted was from a transfer I made that I anamorphically enhanced with DVD Rebuilder. Would that make it appear to have more horizontal resolution?
Sorry, I meant horizontal detail. The scan-line pattern on the screen is what surprised me as we discussed it at lenght in this thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Complete-Comparison-of-Special-Edition-Visual-Changes/post/450397/#TopicPost450397
The Aluminum Falcon said:
In any case, and I'm sorry if this is way too off topic, but I am using a Pioneer LD-V850 to transfer these and would be interested in some info about it. Is it related to the LD-V800 from Arnie.d's V8 Capture?
I'll let anyone with more knowledge about players than me answer that for you.
The Aluminum Falcon said:
Okay, just was surfing the web and noticed that the SWE did have multiple pressings: Pioneer, Mitsubishi, and Technidisc. See info here. Does anyone know if there were any differences in quality between them, as far as ESB and ROTJ?
I think Mallwalker is investigating that. So, what pressing is your LD then? your screen-cap isn't the same frame but it appears to display more horizontal resolution compared to the others, see the scan lines on the screen.
Harmy said:
Not true, when you look at these 70mm cell scans, there's actually more picture information on the sides than there is in the 2004 SE, which is the least cropped transfer to date.
It seems to me that those could be 35mm, the reason behind my thinking is that this shot wasn't in the 70mm version:
The Aluminum Falcon said:
msycamore said:
...this transfer doesn't have the various color issues the JSC and first pressings of the SWE had on ANH, the major thing that bothered me on that transfer.
Oh well then. Would you consider doing a transfer after you finish your wonderful THX-1138 one? It seems you're having fantastic results on that one.
I don't have the capability to capture LD's at the moment, but I plan to do it.
The Aluminum Falcon said:
By the way, would you happen to know how the Special Widescreen Editions of ESB and ROTJ hold up against the JSC?
I don't know for sure but from what I have seen on various screen-caps, the JSC seems to have a slight advantage:
The Aluminum Falcon said:
Oh, so this could make a worthy transfer after all... Without the crosstalk, is it an improvement over the JSC or the same?
I don't own the actual JSC LD myself, so I can't compare them on equal ground, but in terms of colortiming it is much better, this transfer doesn't have the various color issues the JSC and first pressings of the SWE had on ANH, the major thing that bothered me on that transfer.
