When it comes to motion smear, ESB '97 is generally much better than GOUT-ESB but everything is really.
_,,,^..^,,,_ said:
38066 - binoculars' digits are green instead of red... which is the right color?
Green is the correct color.
Great job, _,,,^..^,,,_ ! the screencaps looking good. I would also recommend reducing the sharpening but you're the boss.
Just a thought regarding multi-cap average and median scripts in general, I wonder if you potentially could get even better results if you average the medians? For example, use 4 or 5 captures, make 3 different median of three then average the medians. Perhaps the differing results would be so minor that the trouble going through such a tedious step isn't worth it. Thoughts?
Nice catch Spaced Ranger! The always satisfied Lucas...
I always thought a better end maybe would've been the scene where Luke set fire to Vader, it's a beautiful scene. But then it would've been too abrupt instead.
Zombie, do you happen to know if those "Han Shot First" shirts actually were produced by Lucasfilm around the time they released the GOUT? or was it just some random fan made shirts or what? But yes I agree with you, he is a fascinating enigma.
zombie84 said:
Actually, I think some of these additions are actually just his way of fucking with critics. "Oh, you laughed in the theater when Darth Vader said 'Nooo' in Episode III? Well, fuck you, I thought it was good, in fact I'm going to put it in Return of the Jedi TOO! How do you like them apples?"
I think in some ways we want to think that the stupid alterations are his way of fucking with critics and fans, I actually wish it was/is his reason sometimes, it makes things easier, but I strongly suspect it's much worse than that; that he actually sincerely believes that some of these stupid and nonsensical alterations improves the films. The reason being some of the stupid alterations done already in '97, why fucking with critics and fans back then, wasn't it supposed to be a nice 20th anniversary celebration? No, many of those changes and those in '04 are completely in line with every other stupid change done since, including the stupid things seen in the Prequels. It's the filmmaking 101 by Lucas these days. Sad but I think it's the truth.
zombie84 said:
Because I mean if he really cared about the films...why would he sell them to Disney?
He always used the analogy of the films being his children so he wanted to make sure they were properly protected...so, did he just sell his kids for a huge paycheck?
I'm off topic now, but man that guy is hard to figure out sometimes.
Yeah, it has been more than a month since the announcement but it still hasn't sunk in for me. It's bizarre...
Teeceezy said:
Hey guys does anyone know what happened to msycamore's m2v? I was checking my seeds when I noticed the m2v said 'Failure: Torrent not registered with this tracker'. I went back and checked MySpleen and the m2v is gone. Anybody know why?
Yeah, I noticed it was removed. Don't know the reason behind it, maybe they deleted it because it was a video only file. But they seem to approve audio only uploads so I honestly don't know...
none said:
More about the late addition to ESB can be found in tMoESB Rinzler book, pg. 333-334.
Yeah, there's some nice storyboards and info about the additions in there. Ken Ralston also mention this late addition briefly in the old Definitive Collection LD commentary track.
SpilkaBilka said:
zombie, msycamore, thanks so much for the info re: the shot of the fleet. Anyone know a reason why this was done, and when the FX shot was created? Was it a shot they simply forgot to put in, or one they felt they needed for some reason after the movie was released?
The way I understand it, the reason for the re-editing being that apparently there was some confusion where exactly Luke and company were located and where the Falcon (Lando) were in relation to them. Besides the two shots added before we first see Lando in the cockpit, they added the exterior shot of the ships with the extra dialogue, "When we find Jabba the Hutt and that bounty hunter, we'll contact you."
SpilkaBilka said:
I seem to remember reading/hearing in some Lucas or Kershner interview, about a shot at the end of ESB that apparently came out crappy, I believe of the fleet, and I think Kersh said, "one bad shot can ruin the whole movie" or something like that, so they decided to redo it. I wonder if this is related to the missing/added FX shot?
Yes, I think the quote you remember is from IGN's interview with Gary Kurtz: http://www.ign.com/articles/2002/11/11/an-interview-with-gary-kurtz?page=4
Kurtz: At the very end of Empire ... we decided at the very last minute – we pretty much locked the picture in the mix and just getting ready to make 70mm prints – and we decided that there had to be an extra shot at the very end, to identify this rebel fleet.
If you remember how the end works, it's before you go into the medical department, who are working on Mark's hand. It's the establishing shot of the fleet, and we had a shot already of going into the window and showing Mark inside, and we just decided that it was confusing. We didn't know exactly how that was sorted out, so we wanted a long shot at the beginning, and then one at the end that shows the whole fleet when the Falcon flies off. They weren't very difficult to do, and all the ships were there ... just pile up the composites, and they were rushed through, just to get it done. Very last minute. One of them wasn't particularly good, and George said, "Oh well, maybe we should just let it go."
I said, "It's worth at least one more go through. One bad shot can ruin the whole movie, basically." Which I really believe is true, and it just wasn't very good. It was just a compositing problem, had nothing to do with the individual shot elements – I can't even remember what shot it was, now. I think making a movie wears everybody down. You have to be really careful of the decisions you make at the very end, because you can kind of throw a monkey wrench in, very easily.
Tobar said:
Anyway, nice catch msycamore!
Or not... ;) Hard to unsee, I thought more people had noticed it. And the reason behind it has been bugging me for years.
I posted a recreation of the 70mm ending of ESB in one of the threads around here a few months ago, just for fun to see and hear how it actually played, you can check it out here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/6nt4ow
Just a quick and dirty edit and sync job of the 70mm audio and GOUT. I actually think it worked better in some ways, the pace, no tracked music... the establishing shot of the fleet which ends on the Falcon became somewhat awkward in the reedit IMO. Both versions works in their own way of course.
Edit: here's a good thread for the various 70mm differences in ESB: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/70-mm-print-of-the-Empire-Strikes-Back-Differences/topic/2321/
zombie84 said:
My question is...HOW DO YOU PEOPLE NOTICE A SINGLE FRAME MISSING?
Good find though. Another useless bit of trivia I can now add to my knowledge of Star Wars, along with the stunning revelation in the OT Purist thread that there were, in fact, not one but three Prune Face people in ROTJ.
He he, this is geeky alright, sorry if I have now sort of ruined the scene for some. This one I noticed way back in the 80's when watching the film endlessly on video, 1 frame missing may sound like something that is impossible to spot without studying the scene but the reason I noticed it being the motion in the scene where it happens, the rebels running and the snow that is falling in the background, it always stood out to me...
zombie84 said:
otherwise it will jam up and tear the whole reel.
Didn't know or expect it could go so bad!
The jump is there on every source I have seen including the 35mm bootleg and as they apparently went back to the negative for the Lowry Digital transfers Zombies story sounds like the logical explanation for it.
Nice example You_Too!
Tyrphanax said:
Wow, I don't think I've ever done that before.
Yeah, it may sound pathetic and I wasn't completely sober but yes your nice little story made me happy and a little misty-eyed. :) It's a little hard to imagine what the feeling must be for those who watch the originals for the first time after being accustomed to watching the altered versions for as long as they can remember, must be a weird experience for some.
georgec said:
msycamore said:
Bingowings said:
I think he looks like Father Christmas and I want to cuddle him.
After seeing your avatar, I want to cuddle you.
What about me?
Damn, there's too many of you.
SilverWook said:
There's a behind the scenes photo of the original Emperor hologram being shot, but I can't recall where I saw it recently.
Yeah, I think the pictures you refer to is the ones that leaked out to the net before Rinzler's making of came out, they are all in that book. Buy it Silver! it's fantastic even if you own the old journal, I truly recommend it.
SilverWook said:
Some of the spacesuits seen in the cantina are somewhat recycled too. ;)
Indeed. ;)
I know this is a silly thing to devote a thread to but I thought what the heck.
In every video transfer and as much as I know every theatrical presentation of the 35mm cut of the film, one frame is missing. (including all the SE's)
For those who don't know what I'm talking about...
missing frame causing a minor jump cut
With all expertise around these parts when it comes to film, why did this happen? Is it a leftover error from Lucas' panic cut? Was it a naked guy who suddenly showed up for this frame or was it a good old fashion error of the negative cutter? In the old transfers you can see splice glue between these frames.
Tyrphanax said:
This was originally part of my second reply to the George Lucas thread, but I decided it was too long-winded and off-topic and would fit better here:
I can't speak for anyone else (though I have a suspicion that many will agree with me) but I care because his stance on film preservation applies to all films but his; that he was actively suppressing and attempting to destroy the originals (covering up or removing hard work done on the originals by other people, et cetera), through neglect really peeved me and many others. The fact that Star Wars is such a huge piece of cultural and cinematic history made it all the more egregious.
And I know many other people care so much because the original versions of the films were a huge part of their childhood, and now they don't have access to that part of their childhood anymore.
I can't claim that, because I grew up watching the Special Editions, but when I finally found the Original Unaltered Trilogy through fan preservations, I realized how much better the films were before the changes. I went into my first fan preservation without the "taint" of anti-Lucas, anti-Special Edition, anti-Prequelism, thinking "Well how much different can it be? I like the CGI stuff from the Special Editions!" and I came out a changed man. They're just better in their original format.
This is basically what I wanted to say, and when I came to the part where you said that you grew up with the Special Editions it was actually close to tears in my eyes, because this proves it's not about a sentimental bunch of old nerds who grew up with the originals. You see it as clear as we do. Thank you!
The old Sluggo is back!
Sorry if I take this further off topic but they also effectively recycled parts in the cantina for the bounty hunter IG-88. See his head.
Sorry for the lack of response, ww12345. Hadn't noticed this. Thanks for posting an audio sample, will check it out.
bkev said:
If nothing else, this is good for capturing the original title card. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like.
If you have never seen the original opening, here is a sample:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/bnsn8v
my idea was to splice in the LD-footage with the DVD transfer but the low quality of the LD transfer in comparison with the DVD footage would never make a successful blend. When checking this out, I noticed that not only was the opening titles redone, the Lucasfilm/Coppola card was recomposited and for some reason the footage of Dreyfuss introduction got shifted by one frame, which means; when his car enters the frame, it's one frame earlier than the original and the last shot ends one frame before the original.
Bingowings said:
I think he looks like Father Christmas and I want to cuddle him.
After seeing your avatar, I want to cuddle you.
Before I make too many enemies in this thread, I have to say that I love the design of the royal guards, the shuttle and the handiwork behind the biggest puppet ever; Jabba, lovely creation. I also enjoy Ian's Emperor even though I expected something else.
And to bring this back to the threads original question, tell you the truth I have not seen episode II and III in their entirety, only clips and segments here and there, quite hard to avoid. But I'm pretty sure already from what I've seen that Jedi doesn't sink as low as those two in my view. I promised myself that I never was going to watch another after Phantom Menace but now a friend of mine has given me an opportunity to do so and I've sort of mellowed to the idea, and I must admit that I'm actually a bit curious to finally watch them in a morbid way.
Does he like you? Does he like his fans?
SpilkaBilka said:
I do like ESB a lot... it's a great movie, but for me, it's not even close to SW. Gonna be totally honest here- and I swear I'm not trying to troll anyone... I'm not a fan of Vader being Luke's father- in fact I think it's kind of silly and takes everything to soap-opera land. I often wonder what other SW movies could've been like if Vader was not Luke's dad. The universe would've been much bigger, that's for sure.
I absolutely love the classic "No, I am your father." in the context of the film but I also see the bad repercussions of it. I remember when I first saw the film I definitely thought it was all a part of the seduction and temptation. When I had my doubts, I recall my dad and several friends said, "Come on, it's quite obvious, he answers Vader's call at the end of the film; "Father". and his "Ben, why didn't you tell me?" I just saw it as Luke's twisted nightmare after his confrontation, Williams sort of wrote the music for those scenes in that way as well. But I can also see a build up to this revelation in retrospect throughout the film. You also have Yoda's; "Much anger in him, like his father."
Bingowings said:
I still have this nagging suspicion that the Prune Faces actually came form an attempt to depict the Emperor with a one piece mask.
If you look at some of the depictions of him in storyboards for ROTJ he looks less skeletal and old and more simian and alien.
Interesting, there's definitely a likeness between them. Where does this Prune Face show up in ROTJ? I only recall the action figures...
Bingowings said:
The storyboard is spooky.
The real satan of Star Wars, before the cackling disney villain... Thanks for posting! don't think I've seen that one before.
zee944 said:
The reason I say this is a trendy viewpont because back in the old days Return of the Jedi didn't receive much criticism from the audience; it was nearly the same widely adored as the previous two films. The critics were less satisfied, but due to their roles they always enlarge the problems and with each sequel they're more and more critical anyway.
Nice to finally have an authority on these matters.
zee944 said:
Once again, the loss of credibility for me here is that ROTJ haven't been heavily critisized by the fans for a very-very long time.
So you say it was heavily criticized by fans a very-very long time ago? Damn trendsetters...
zee944 said:
Common sense, people!
Yes, common sense please. This is only a movie, it's not your mother or girlfriend that is being critized. Could it just not be a case where some people and fans are able to take a step back and look at a film objectively, does it have to be down to following some sort of a trend? I loved both SW and ESB and still do to this day and was very disappointed by the third film, and I didn't need to over analyze it to come to this conclusion as you suggests. You know, you can dislike certain aspects and even films in this series without some sort of agenda and still be a fan. ROTJ may perhaps not be as sacrosanct to others as it is to you, just as SW and ESB may not be as sacrosanct to others as they are to me.
In the end it's what you think and like about a film that's important, not what others may think of it. I love many films that I know are overall disliked by both critics and audiences but it doesn't stop my enjoyment of it.
