moviefreakedmind

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

One of my best friends growing up was a 50-year-old lesbian. It’s all good with me.

I really don’t think you have to say this in order to make your point. You sound like one of those white dudes who says “I have lots of black friends!”

I knew I’d get this response from someone; figures that it’s you. I don’t really care what you think I sound like.

That’s fine. I’m not saying you’re a homophobe, I’m saying there was zero reason to throw that sentence in.

My reasoning was to add a bit more depth to my own story and experiences with gay people, particularly since a young male preteen hanging out with a 50-year-old lesbian in the 80s goes beyond the typical “some of my best friends are [whatever]” statement.

I tire of the virtue signaling performed by whites being offended on behalf of their minority friends. It’s another form of “some of my best friends are [whatever]” and I’m always surprised when the hypocrisy escapes them.

I don’t think that it’s necessarily virtue signaling. If I had friends I’d probably get offended if I perceived a slight against them. Of course I can’t relate, but I would assume I’d do that.

One of the biggest myths on the internet is that the far-left has a huge influence on mainstream art. I said it earlier, but most big movies and TV shows aren’t very progressive. They actually try to avoid controversial things. Take that IT reimagining from last year, for example. If Hollywood were really some bastion of social change and progressive politics, they would have used that as an opportunity for commentary on violence and racism faced by black families in rural white America, which was a prominent issue in the novel. Instead, they ignored it and didn’t once mention race. There’s a lot of examples of this. Hollywood and TV are quite moderate. They’re fringe left when compared to red-state southern culture, but not by any other standard they’re not.

I don’t like the idea of corporate art anyway.

I think the key is to empower a more diverse selection of artists. If that happens then the amount of perspectives communicating in art would increase and the whole issue would resolve itself. I don’t trust editors, friends, or audiences to have any idea what they’re talking when it comes to art. “Another writer they trust” would be the best option.

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Artists aren’t obligated to do anything. If it’s an obligation then it isn’t art.

They aren’t obligated, but many leave out diversity almost by accident or out of habit. I think we should be careful about forcing an artist to do something they don’t feel is right for their story, but there should be someone there to check and ask the questions that need asking. Does this character really need to be a white man? Is there a good reason why 90% of the speaker characters are dudes?

Again, it’s not a matter of forcing, it’s a matter of looking long and hard at the work and asking why it isn’t diverse. The truth is, most of the time, there isn’t a good reason.

I suspect the reason is that people write about what they know and most writers old and experienced enough to be writing big movies or TV shows probably don’t “know” diversity so they don’t naturally write about it. Since most writers are men, they write men more. That’s my assumption.

If it’s a story about being black for example, I’d get why a white writer might not want to go there. But if they’re skin color isn’t that important to their story, there’s not a great reason why not.

If they’re doing it subconsciously and they grew up in an environment lacking in diversity, it makes sense that they wouldn’t think to write in any diversity. I’m thinking about movies and TV right now so it’s probably the casting department that makes those decisions anyway.

The dance scene in Spiderman 3 is my favorite scene in any superhero movie.

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Artists aren’t obligated to do anything. If it’s an obligation then it isn’t art.

They aren’t obligated, but many leave out diversity almost by accident or out of habit. I think we should be careful about forcing an artist to do something they don’t feel is right for their story, but there should be someone there to check and ask the questions that need asking. Does this character really need to be a white man? Is there a good reason why 90% of the speaker characters are dudes?

Again, it’s not a matter of forcing, it’s a matter of looking long and hard at the work and asking why it isn’t diverse. The truth is, most of the time, there isn’t a good reason.

This is the part of your post I have a problem with:

but there should be someone there to check and ask the questions that need asking

Unless by “someone”, you mean “the audience”, no. Just no.

Who is this “someone”? How did they get the job of policing content for appropriate diversity? What are their own biases that might influence their objectivity? Must this person be a minority? Or perhaps a committee that’s fully representative of the population? Do we put hard rules in place, i.e. 13% of the population is black, so 13% of your characters must be black? Do we use the U.S. population as the benchmark?

That all sounds absurd, of course, but that’s what happens when you make this sort of thing official and place the responsibility on someone in a corporation to do it. Lots of rules and regulations and HR people.

I more or less agree with this. Bureaucratic bullshit doesn’t mix well with artistry.

I started writing books and stories for myself, literally just for myself to read, mainly because I got tired of finding characters in other media un-relatable to me, even if that other media is really good and high quality. If you want diverse stories to be told, support artists that are telling those stories. Don’t go to the artists that aren’t.

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

One of my best friends growing up was a 50-year-old lesbian. It’s all good with me.

I really don’t think you have to say this in order to make your point. You sound like one of those white dudes who says “I have lots of black friends!”

I’ve been implied to be a homophobe before in some discussions on this forum. I think people like to preemptively combat the assumptions that people will make about them. I’ve done it before too but now I don’t really care what anyone thinks about me.

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Artists aren’t obligated to do anything. If it’s an obligation then it isn’t art.

They aren’t obligated, but many leave out diversity almost by accident or out of habit. I think we should be careful about forcing an artist to do something they don’t feel is right for their story, but there should be someone there to check and ask the questions that need asking. Does this character really need to be a white man? Is there a good reason why 90% of the speaker characters are dudes?

Again, it’s not a matter of forcing, it’s a matter of looking long and hard at the work and asking why it isn’t diverse. The truth is, most of the time, there isn’t a good reason.

I suspect the reason is that people write about what they know and most writers old and experienced enough to be writing big movies or TV shows probably don’t “know” diversity so they don’t naturally write about it. Since most writers are men, they write men more. That’s my assumption.

TV’s Frink said:

Dek Rollins said:

Some gay people at my school constantly brag about how gay they are (mostly to eachother), and it’s extremely annoying. It’s like they think people like me actually care that they’re gay.

If I were gay and I heard someone talking like this, I’d certainly brag more, because I’d find it extremely annoying to listen to how annoyed that person was that I was talking about being gay.

It comes off as “you can be gay, just don’t bother me with your gayness.” Similar to how chyron is bothered by “flamboyant men.”

I agree with you but for some reason I can empathize because I get annoyed and even hate people for far more arbitrary things so I shouldn’t be talking.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that devices designed to kill as efficiently and quickly as possible are “disgusting.”

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

Guns are inherently disgusting.

…

If I was speaking purely emotionally…

You are. It sounds like you have conflicting emotions when it comes to guns (disgusting vs. cool) and have decided to indulge one over the other.

That’s not how I interpreted it at all. I think he was saying that his response wasn’t purely emotional while the people who say that guns are exciting and cool are speaking out of pure emotion.

I’d compare awkward insertion of sexuality without relevance to the story to when characters are awkwardly made to have romantic or flirtatious interactions with people of the opposite sex with no regard for its relevance to the story.

Artists aren’t obligated to do anything. If it’s an obligation then it isn’t art.

Not probably, definitely. But I’m already hated by everyone I’ve ever interacted with so I don’t really care if what I think is twisted around at this point.

Like I said, I wouldn’t phrase it that way but you’ll just read whatever I say as that anyway so I don’t think it’s worth my time to actually reiterate my position.

I have a feeling that comicbooks, like movies, video games, books, and almost everything else, aren’t anywhere near as politically subversive or progressive as people think. Typically corporate media tries not to be too progressive. I don’t know where the idea that every single media outlet is pushing progressive politics comes from.

EDIT: I know where the idea comes from, but I don’t know why anyone believes it.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:
Go ahead and explain why the giant Joi hologram had to be naked and not dressed in any of the clothes she wore while with K/Joe. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

Probably because showing nudity is more exploitative and immature than clothes.

WYSHS

Exploitation is often more exciting than clothes.

Is this supposed to be a defense?

Not really. I just don’t consider what you consider to be exploitation to be a problem at all.

Obviously.

I’m very in favor of sexual liberation and body positivity. I think if people were less spooked by nudity then it would help a lot.

Gosh, if women would just get over being exploited everything would be cool and we could all enjoy looking at more boobs in movies without the whiny prudes complaining about it.

I wouldn’t phrase it that way, but sure.

Knife violence and gun violence is the biggest false equivalence in political discourse these days, with the sole exception of Trump and Hillary being equivalents.

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The lack of gun control is the only reason that these school shootings happen so often in America.

Or society is sick. Machine guns were readily available many years ago — actual machine guns, not black plastic rifles that look like something out of a movie, but are functionally the same as a hunting rifle. Where were all the mass shootings back then?

Banning scary-looking rifles won’t solve the problem. I went shooting with family and friends a few weeks back for my dad’s birthday. I can tell you that someone packing a couple semi-automatic handguns and a few magazines can do a tremendous amount of damage in a short period of time.

Background checks and mental health checks would probably help. There’s something going on out there that goes beyond availability of firearms.

There were more people incarcerated in mental institutions decades ago, which is why I think there were less shootings then.

We still put many people with mental issues in jail. In fact, I’d guess we put more mentally ill people in jail today than we did back then. It’s easier to throw them away in prison than to tackle something as complex as mental illness.

I didn’t say prison. I’m talking about mental institutions. I don’t believe in putting mentally ill people in the same facilities as sane criminals. I’m a staunch advocate of reforming our justice system.

Also, who said anything about rifles? I don’t even know if this shooter used rifles. I want almost all guns to be nearly inaccessible.

Never happen.

It’s what needs to happen.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:
Go ahead and explain why the giant Joi hologram had to be naked and not dressed in any of the clothes she wore while with K/Joe. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

Probably because showing nudity is more exploitative and immature than clothes.

WYSHS

Exploitation is often more exciting than clothes.

Is this supposed to be a defense?

Not really. I just don’t consider what you consider to be exploitation to be a problem at all.

Obviously.

I’m very in favor of sexual liberation and body positivity. I think if people were less spooked by nudity then it would help a lot.

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The lack of gun control is the only reason that these school shootings happen so often in America.

Or society is sick. Machine guns were readily available many years ago — actual machine guns, not black plastic rifles that look like something out of a movie, but are functionally the same as a hunting rifle. Where were all the mass shootings back then?

Banning scary-looking rifles won’t solve the problem. I went shooting with family and friends a few weeks back for my dad’s birthday. I can tell you that someone packing a couple semi-automatic handguns and a few magazines can do a tremendous amount of damage in a short period of time.

Background checks and mental health checks would probably help. There’s something going on out there that goes beyond availability of firearms.

There were more people incarcerated in mental institutions decades ago, which is why I think there were less shootings then. Also, who said anything about rifles? I don’t even know if this shooter used rifles. I want almost all guns to be nearly inaccessible. And there are sick people in all 1st world countries, but this stuff only happens this regularly in the United States.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:
Go ahead and explain why the giant Joi hologram had to be naked and not dressed in any of the clothes she wore while with K/Joe. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

Probably because showing nudity is more exploitative and immature than clothes.

WYSHS

Exploitation is often more exciting than clothes.

Is this supposed to be a defense?

Not really. I just don’t consider what you consider to be exploitation to be a problem at all.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:
Go ahead and explain why the giant Joi hologram had to be naked and not dressed in any of the clothes she wore while with K/Joe. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

Probably because showing nudity is more exploitative and immature than clothes.

WYSHS

Exploitation is often more exciting than clothes.

I hope all the politicians that do nothing about this school shooting other than pray about it get voted out of office in midterms this year. The lack of gun control is the only reason that these school shootings happen so often in America. Anyone who claims otherwise, including the terrorist Oliver North that will soon lead the NRA, is lying.