moviefreakedmind

To me the idea of Disney ignoring the current movies is about as likely as hearing Luke ask for Leia's midichlorian count in Ep. VII. Star Wars has been, and always will be, on the shelves in stores. It's one of the highest selling home video movies of all time, and it would make no sense to not want to sell it in stores for no reason. IN FACT! (I'm a bit excited because I just thought of this) - I wouldn't be surprised if Disney want's a new set out there so that the current blu ray set doesn't read, "The Complete Saga". The old Indy DVD set read, "The Complete Adventures," and the three movies were re-released before Crystal Skull came out, this time being advertised as, "The Adventure Collection," instead so that people knew their old boxed sets were no longer the comprehensive Indiana Jones set. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens again. Also, Disney makes money on Home Video releases, and it's always a given to re-release your movies in a new boxed set when revisiting an old franchise like this. 

I agree that it's possible Lucas and Disney agreed that the SE has to be recognized as the "official" version (whatever that means) or something but I don't think Disney would agree to give him control over what they can and cant release. Also, I think the likelihood of George putting it in the contract that the OUT can't be released is the equivalent of him putting it in the fine print that Episode VII has to have gunguns in it. 

Nick66 said:

I agree that the rumour that Lucas has forbid a release of the original versions could be completely unsourced and false.

That said, would this surprise anyone if that were the case? Disney was quite keen on getting Star Wars, to make future films, which was their primary motivation for acquiring the franchise. So if one of George's conditions on the sale was that the film never be released in its original version, or at a minimum that he must approve all future releases of the OT...I doubt that would be enough of a reason for Disney to walk away from the deal.  There seems to be a prevailing attitude that once Star Wars was sold to Disney, Lucasfilm gave up any interest in the films at all, and I don't know if that's the case at all.  There could be all kinds of conditions to this deal we don't know about.

On the other hand it's also possible that George has softened on the issue.  We just don't know.

Now, I have no idea what the deal is, but George wanting final approval on future releases certainly would not be inconsistent with anything he's done before.

 That's true, but if Faraci's sources are telling him that Fox is the one refusing to release the OUT then that's still inaccurate. Also, I actually don't think George cares. It's been years since he's fallen back on the whole "true vision" thing where there could only be one version of the film. Before he sold it he just seemed to think that he shouldn't have to restore movies he doesn't care about. If he truly wanted the OUT wiped from existence so much then he wouldn't have given the movies to another company, and he also likely wouldn't have released the GOUT.

Fang Zei said:

doubleofive said:

Fang Zei said:

The bit from the badass digest article I find interesting is that apparently the people in charge at Fox don't feel comfortable releasing the OOT while Lucas is still alive.

I'm not sure why this would be the case, though.

Yeah, but without sources, that's really just someone assuming something. I'm pretty sure Lucas has never actually said "There will be no originals as long as I draw breath!", or even thought it. For Fox to assume that is stupid, and for anyone to assume that Fox assumes that is even more stupid.

 "And there's one more wrinkle I've heard from sources at Fox: as long as George Lucas is alive they're not willing (or able? I'm not clear here) to go against his wishes and release the untouched originals. That was the situation earlier this year, when a rumor about a rerelease of the untouched originals was circulating. Unless something has changed in-house I wouldn't expect movement on these in the immediate future."

http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/16/why-i-doubt-disney-is-releasing-the-unaltered-star-wars-ot-on-blu/

I do think he's making a mountain out of a mole hill with the whole "Fox owns the rights, therefore this rumor is bs" part, though.

 That article has come up before. His "sources" are just as vague and shady as the comic book.com article. He's also very confused on the Fox issue. He thinks they own the actual films, meaning the films are trademarks of Fox, which is not true. He also said that Fox would be the one to restore the films which will NEVER happen. Fox won't spend a bunch of money restoring films they won't own rights to much longer.

darklordoftech said:

moviefreakedmind said:

At the very least, the black escape pod door is back to blue; there was a picture of it in RMW's video.

Strange considering how 04/11 looking the lightsabers are. 

 I know, that's what worries me...

The amount of attention the OUT has gotten online the past summer is more than it's had at any one point in time that I can remember, and the fact that they're talking about Harmy so much also shows that there are plenty of people willing to go out of their way to see the original cuts of the trilogy. 

With Disney, they'll either release them or they won't. The petition to Lucas made sense because he was personally refusing to release the films and we thought that maybe it would make him realize that a lot of people care about the original versions. Now, it boils down to, "will we make money by releasing this?" as well as, "will releasing the OT create good will and build hype for our movies?" along with a few other business decisions. The new management isn't going to say, "will releasing the OT go against the original vision of the films?" they're going to make their decisions based on business, not some vague and nondescript "true vision", and also not based on a petition or boycott. They already know what we want, and there's no way an OUT release wouldn't make money, so I'd be surprised if it isn't released in the lead-up to Ep. VII; maybe it will be announced at celebration (I think the first SW blu ray was announced at a convention). 

I agree, and also (we can't know about this for sure) but hopefully that means the weird purple tint when they're on the death star is gone too. At the very least, the black escape pod door is back to blue; there was a picture of it in RMW's video.

We literally know nothing about it, and it's shrouded with mystery, which is what gives me hope. I've emailed RMW and they've not even responded with so much as a, "that project was cancelled," reply. Not that they'd spend time talking to someone like me, but the fact that there's been quite a bit of media buzz about the rumors and about Harmy's reconstruction of the OUT, and not even so much as an acknowledgement from Lucasfilm or RMW? Also, the fact that they removed it from their site is particularly interesting, and we can guess from their videos that they've at least restored Star Wars and part of Empire so I doubt it's a cancelled project. No clips from Jedi though, so that could imply that it's a more recent project. Very curious...

Well, Red Letter Media did do a commentary on Star Wars (DVD) and he just tore all the changes apart, it was great. In one of the reviews, I've forgotten which, he said that the SE's were "offensive", I think he described it as something along the lines of, "you're trying to watch the movie, and they keep shoving more shit on the screen to distract you," and if I remember right he referred to Lucas as nothing but a child waving his arms around for attention or something. I guess that's all that really needs to be said about the SE's, but if you want to hear him pick apart specific changes then check out that commentary track, it's on their website I think.

Will there be 35mm sources for the Sail Barge scene, like when Han almost falls off, but without the added ropes, as well as just for the old sarlac in general? Sorry if I'm asking a question there isn't an answer to yet, but what all 35mm scenes are going to be used for Jedi 2.0? 

darklordoftech said:

moviefreakedmind said:

A common misconception that I think has been unaddressed in most places is that people who are unaware of the SE v. OT debate are going to refuse to buy the original trilogy. The fact that it's  an OUT release for the first time in almost 20 years (I don't count the GOUT) will get everyone who wants the unaltered versions but accepts the SE versions, as well as everyone like us who hates the current SE, to purchase the new release. Anyone who doesn't know anything about it isn't going to say, "Oh, this is the original version, I don't want that I want the one where the CGI dinosaur walks in front of the screen." The argument that "everyone who grew up with the SE knows that as their version of Star Wars," is also invalid because we were all pretty excited when the SE came out, and we knew the original as our version. Also, the argument that most people don't care about the new changes goes both ways because anyone who doesn't care about added CGI is not going to care about the added CGI's mysterious disappearance either. My point is, some people seem to think that because a lot of people are used to the SE, they will for some reason be offended by the OUT, and I just don't think that's the case, because most of the changes are just really stupid, and no one will be devastated by their removal.

I love this post beyond words. It's one of the greatest posts that I've ever seen.

Glad to see someone liked it

Seriously, some of the hopeless fans I've come across either in person or online just can't bring themselves to look at things from a more common-sense perspective now that real businessmen are in charge instead of ol' George. I can't blame them though after nearly 20 years of heartbreak, but I think now it's actually safe to be cautiously optimistic! :)

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

One thing I would like to see on a proper release, is the COMPLETE deleted scene with Biggs, Luke, and Red Leader - with the complete dialog about Luke's father.

 What are you talking about? Luke's father is Darth Vader. Lucas had it all planned for 25 years before the movie was made. You're just a hater, stop Lucas-bashing* :p

*That's a legitimate term used on "Wookieepedia", not being sarcastic this time, it really is...

A common misconception that I think has been unaddressed in most places is that people who are unaware of the SE v. OT debate are going to refuse to buy the original trilogy. The fact that it's  an OUT release for the first time in almost 20 years (I don't count the GOUT) will get everyone who wants the unaltered versions but accepts the SE versions, as well as everyone like us who hates the current SE, to purchase the new release. Anyone who doesn't know anything about it isn't going to say, "Oh, this is the original version, I don't want that I want the one where the CGI dinosaur walks in front of the screen." The argument that "everyone who grew up with the SE knows that as their version of Star Wars," is also invalid because we were all pretty excited when the SE came out, and we knew the original as our version. Also, the argument that most people don't care about the new changes goes both ways because anyone who doesn't care about added CGI is not going to care about the added CGI's mysterious disappearance either. My point is, some people seem to think that because a lot of people are used to the SE, they will for some reason be offended by the OUT, and I just don't think that's the case, because most of the changes are just really stupid, and no one will be devastated by their removal.

unamochilla2: I think that any tweaks would be tweaks to Special Edition changes, and I think the prequels are just done forever. No one likes them (except a vocal group online)

As for the unaltered release not having demand, I think it'd have just as much demand as the SE did in '97 if the marketing was right. Also, that's not to say that people who are uninterested and ignorant of the situation, but want to get the trilogy are going to refuse to buy the original versions, they'll buy whatever has "Star Wars: the Original Trilogy" written on it, and they probably won't even notice the SE CGI's absence. 

Oh, I'm confident that we'll get an OUT release in HD (whether adequately restored or not is a different question). I assume it'll be like the GOUT, not quality-wise, but in a sense that it's the second disc for each movie, so I doubt they'll clean up the matte lines in order to please all the purists, especially since they'll likely be including the SE's anyway. I was positively shocked when the GOUT didn't include the New Hope crawl, especially since they would've had to have edited it out of the laserdisc transfer I believe, so I suppose it wouldn't shock me if they do give us the original crawl, but as I've said before I won't boycott it if they don't since I've had the 81 crawl on tape for decades.

Harmy said:

Well, that was the original plan but since they already promised to give them to me, it just seems like a terrible amount of work to try and despecialize all those shots, only to have to do it again soon after, so I will be waiting for the N1 sources, however long it takes for them to be delivered.

That's a good idea, and given how well the N1 sources worked in Star Wars, I have no worries that they'll look pretty damn good in Jedi as well. They'll be a huge step up from the GOUT anyway. Not to be completely impatient, but is there an ETA on their arrival? Even if it is just a rough guess?

Ultimately, this rumor will never be debunked/confirmed unless it's by Disney/Lucasfilm themselves. The only speculation (except for here at least) online is being done by people who are completely ignorant of, but still obsessed with, the distribution rights "issue", and it's pretty annoying.

Hey, I was just wondering what the progress on Jedi 2.0 was since there really haven't been any big updates like on Empire (at least not that I've seen, sorry if I'm repeating things). Is there a long wait for the TN1 35mm's? Those would be the most important sources to get the dance scene and missing Jabba moment looking good. I guess it's also likely the best way to restore the eyebrows as well as Anakin's more skin-colored face rather than that weird grayish tone in the SE. Anyway, I was just wondering what the ETA on Jedi is, I'm desperate to see Lapti and the eyebrows in high quality! :-)

The fact that it hasn't been debunked or even addressed gives me some hope; Lucas made clear that we were never going to get a satisfying release of the originals again the second the SE was released, but Disney's Lucasfilm hasn't said either way. There's also the possibility that they won't officially debunk anything until after Ep. VII so they don't get any bad press before the new movie. 

imperialscum said:

moviefreakedmind said:

What? I haven't changed my mind. If anything I just said they'll revert back to '04 content-wise because I don't think they'll add the extra rocks in front of R2 because those are completely minute and non-sensical.

Well if they aren't going to redo/reshoot the PT crap which is now stuck in 2K... then the version will pretty much end up being the 1997. Non-PT differences between 1997 and 2004/2011 are rather minor.

Unless they use the 2K and up-scale it to 4K which would be extremely embarrassing and unprofessional.

And no, saying the 97 and 11 SE's are identical is not the same as comparing the SE to the original; they're the same, just with updated Jabba and new prequel references (and without the scream in Empire).

That's like saying 15 and 16 are identical numbers, while 5 and 6 aren't...

 I should clarify this, I do in fact think it'd be nice for the '97 version to be preserved since it was probably one of the biggest theatrical re-releases of older movies ever. I just think it's not the best idea to get our hopes up because I just don't see it happening. Then again, you're actually a fan of the original SE so it's probably a lot more important of an issue to you than it is to me, and you're right, while I'm definitely no fan of the '97 SE, it certainly is a lot less offensive than the post '97 changes.

darklordoftech said:

moviefreakedmind said:

darklordoftech said:

moviefreakedmind said:

sadly I have little hope for seeing Shaw's ghost... :\

Why is that?

 Just intuition I guess; it's hard to put into words. It's kind of because, while it's completely atrocious to people like us, to the non-fan (or TFN guy) the Hayden change isn't non-sensical in the same way that Greedo shooting or the extra rocks are.

I'd love to be proven wrong though!

Gotcha, although I have the opposite intuition and I think that it is non-sensical. What's the point of making a ghost look younger?

 Yes, I agree, and I also personally think that Hayden's ghost is the most offensive of all the Special Edition changes, and I would be thrilled to see it gone. I still would be surprised if he's removed, but the more I think about it, that is a change that everybody notices (the 20 second video of Shaw's ghost from the GOUT, just Shaw and not a comparison of him and Hayden, has over 1.2 million views on youtube) since it really is the most obvious change because you have a modern actor shoved into ROTJ. CGI in a 70's movie doesn't even raise an eyebrow, but pretty much everyone can figure out that Hayden wasn't there before. I know that it's non-sensical, I just meant that it's non-sensical in a different way than the extra rocks or Han dodging Greedo's bullet since those break the laws of physics. 

darklordoftech said:

moviefreakedmind said:

sadly I have little hope for seeing Shaw's ghost... :\

Why is that?

 Just intuition I guess; it's hard to put into words. It's kind of because, while it's completely atrocious to people like us, to the non-fan (or TFN guy) the Hayden change isn't non-sensical in the same way that Greedo shooting or the extra rocks are.

I'd love to be proven wrong though!

I wouldn't be completely shocked if Han shoots first since that's so notorious, but sadly I have little hope for seeing Shaw's ghost... :\

imperialscum said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ok, I'll admit that I'd be pretty surprised if Vader's "NOOOO" or R2's extra rocks make it into the next "Special Edition" release, or even Han shooting second (and maaaybe Jedi Rocks if we're lucky) especially since Vader's "NO" and Hayden Christiansen would have to be re-added if they're 4K restoring the 97 negative.

What happened to the "they will NEVER release 1997"? :)

If you read darklordoftech arguments about 4k from the beginning you wouldn't need to make 3 posts about how certain you are that 1997 will never be release again.

 What? I haven't changed my mind. If anything I just said they'll revert back to '04 content-wise because I don't think they'll add the extra rocks in front of R2 because those are completely minute and non-sensical. I think they'll keep the """official""" versions of the films as close to the 2011's as possible since that is the director's true vision, just maybe without some of the really weird stuff like Vader screaming "NOOO" or the extra rocks. I also stand by my previous statement that Disney will not want Star Wars to be cluttered with 4 different versions because that'll confuse customers, they're probably going to keep releasing the current SE's as the director's "Final Cuts" with the originals along side them as well. Having the director's cut and the originals is one thing, but it becomes cluttered when you have three different but nearly identical Special Editions. And no, saying the 97 and 11 SE's are identical is not the same as comparing the SE to the original; they're the same, just with updated Jabba and new prequel references (and without the scream in Empire).