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lord3vil

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7-Aug-2006
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2-Dec-2007
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97

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Post
#246432
Topic
LEC games: X-Wing, TIE Fighter...
Time
Originally posted by: Cable-X1
The golden age of Star Wars LucasArts games was....X-Wing, TIE Fighter, Rebel Assault 1 & 2, Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, and Mysteries Of The Sith.

Yeah, the golden age was definitely the early to mid 1990s as I see it, though there have been a few gems since. My favorite Star Wars games will have to be X-Wing, TIE-Fighter, Dark Forces, Jedi Knight and Jedi Knight 2. I haven't found the time to play any the KOTOR games, but I've heard they're great though.
Post
#246409
Topic
LEC games: X-Wing, TIE Fighter...
Time
Ah, those two games. X-Wing and TIE-Fighter are two of my favorite games of all time. X-Wing was fantastic because the Star Wars simulator experience was the first of its kind. Then came TIE-Fighter, finally a Star Wars game where you could be evil - and it felt good!

(Yeah, I know about the old arcade games, but I've just barely played them, and the experience never came close to the Lucasarts games of the early 1990s.)
Post
#246365
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Originally posted by: Mike O

Um, no. People are trolls when they attack members of the forums and insult the site and its members. Gomer is simply offering a different opinion. That doesn't make him a troll.

Let me explain this to you then, because you're missing my point: I didn't bother with Gomer's particular response to me, because, it does in fact contain unsubstantiated claims and hollow statements for the most part. Aside from that particular response, he does indeed offer alternative opinions here, and I actually haven't argued against anyone's desire to present opposing views anywhere around here. On the contrary, I am a strong supporter of having different opinoins presented to me, explained and argued for, since this is what usually makes for the most interesting discussions. This, of course, and by all means, includes Gomer when he posts to present different views on things.
Post
#246260
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Originally posted by: JediRandy
Originally posted by: lord3vil
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
[snip]

troll

He's a troll because he gives an opinion that is different from yours.

Why do you think people who express differing opinions are trolls? I simply noticed that his response to me consisted mostly of unsubstantiated and unreasonable claims rather than opinions, which is why I didn't bother with it.
Post
#245933
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Originally posted by: WaragainsttheCouncil

Here's where I disagree. This is one business model. Not the only one. Not even necessarily the best business model. It is purely one approach out of many.
Hold on, I didn't say that it is the only possible business model, and I didn't state without doubt that it's the best one either. I think what Lucasfilm is doing with Star Wars is reasonably sound if their motivation is to reap some good profit, though there are of course alternatives. I certainly don't support their business model though and would have done things very differently and would have brought quality releases to the market if I had the power to do so for sure, so that's another take on things right there.
LFL does have many other revenue generators. THX, LucasArts, LFL (who worked on the most successful film of the year, PIRATES) and then the merchandising wings including EU. There is a plethora of revenue streams into that company. So LFL isn't dependent upon releasing and re-releasing and re-releasing SW again and again to survive.

I wasn't aware that LucasArts was part of Lucasfilm (though Lucas obviously has control of both), and I didn't know Lucasfilm was involved much with contemporary movie productions. If this is true, then I'll have to slightly update my view on things. I have to wonder if Lucas own ego, personal matters (aside from the money-making side of things) and old contracts plays a bigger role with regards to the lackluster OOT releases than what I've been thinking up until now.
Enough with the fancy words though, it's Monday. Crap sells. Quality sells. But which one lasts in the marketplace and which one, almost always, sells more. Quality. Which one is ultimately remembered? Quality. Eventually, and this is proved in the market time and time again, crap is punished in the marketplace. Crap loses. George found this out with his ATTACK OF THE CLONES release. For a SW franchise title, it performed miserably.

Yes, quality prevails in the long run, and a quality OOT release wouldn't be difficult for LFL to make at all. In general though, I'd say the reason we don't see more quality products than we do is that quality products in terms of original works of art are notoriously difficult to create, and there are so many examples of even experienced and talented artists and businessmen who let great opportunities slip by and go to waste simply because they didn't realize what they had on their hands until it was too late. In a competetive industry it's so much easier to just go with the run-of-the-mill way of things, since it's a much more predictable and proven way to do business. Quality on the other hand is often risky business, and as such it really has to bring the promise of paying off that much more than the average thing for investores to be bothered with it.

I do have to wonder though, whether Lucas found out anything much about quality in the last few years. Leading up to the release of TPM, I really got the impression that he thought he was on to something with The Slapstick Show starring Jar Jar Binks. He obviously wasn't but he still brought on Attack of the Clones, and even with all the nails solidly and thoroughly embedded in the coffin he kept on hammering with Revenge of the Sith.
Post
#245174
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Originally posted by: mverta
Lucasfilm is playing the long game; a waiting game; and it's working.

I wonder what makes you put it this way, because I honestly can't see any such sophistication about what they're doing myself. Lucasfilm is just a company trying to maximize profit and their actions fit perfectly with that simple scheme. They don't have a lot of movie products to sell, only a scarce few films, and if they were to release pristine versions so good as to be perfect for historical preservation, they'd lose a big chunk of their business right there. As far as the man in charge is concerned, it's money first and a little glory second, and history shows that to get more of the former, he's more than willing to sacrifice the latter.
Post
#245129
Topic
How I learned to stop worrying and love the 2004 dvd's
Time
Originally posted by: JennyS1138
I have to agree that certain changes make watching the 2004 DVD version cringeworthy.

I'll purchase future OT releases from Lucasfilm only if they make it possible for me to edit them together into the movies I'd actually like to see, without spending months struggling to do so. I just want to see the movies with proper colors and picture, good sound, updated effects, but none of the atrocious changes, such as having child molester Skywalker appear in the OOT:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/lord3vil/ChildMolesterSkywalker.jpg
Post
#244717
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Originally posted by: mverta

We certainly could, that's for sure. Personally, I believe that would only happen post-George's death. I began work on the Legacy Edition only after people who would know, suggested as much. Basically, there are people I trust - you would, too - who told me "forget it" and told me why. And I was thoroughly convinced.
So going by what you've said earlier in this thread, this is an opinion you have formed based on information and knowledge you have access to through actually working for Lucasfilm, that is access to resources which are under confidential agreements? If that is correct, then please accept this token of appreciation for your posts from someone who as much as possible tries to stay within the boundaries of rational and truthful reason.

As for myself, since I don't have any of this direct knowledge, I can only make educated guesses based on what Lucasfilm does, and deduce their intentions by comparing those actions to similar actions made by other people and corporate entities for which the intentions are at least partially or fully known to me. Since that sort of extrapolative analysis tends to branch off into chaos and pure speculation rather quickly, I admit that I haven't spent too much time on it, but my guess about Lucas' intentions, going by what I see, can be summed up as follows:

Lucas(film) quite clearly wants to earn as much money as possible off the Star Wars franchise (for himself, for his family and for whatever other personal reasons), and the best way to do that is obviously to keep the franchise going. However, releasing exactly the products the market wants immediately would be to cut off a viable revenue stream prematurely, so rather than throwing away profit, they instead exploit the marketing opportunities of giving people almost, but not quite, what they want. This is accomplished through an iterative product cycle, the properties for which is determined mostly by financial and marketing fundamentals. The product cycle consists of releasing various incarnations of the same product in sequence until the market for the basic item is saturated. When the lifespan of one (or perhaps a group of) such product in the franchise is nearing the end, some of the gained profit is reinvested in order to come up with a new product to start the cycle going over again and thus keep the franchise going. In the case of Star Wars, this is likely the investing and marketing model which will yield the maximum amount of profit from it over a human lifetime. This is also an excellent way of catching the focus of the media and generating some buzz from time to time as Lucas himself sees fit, so as to cater to one of his most important secondary interests, namely to portray himself as a visionary artist and filmmaker.

Oh, and mverta, if the above is reduced to no more than mindless speculation when held up against the truth as you know it, have no hesitations about telling me. Actually, I'd be quite interested to know! On the other hand, if you instead remain silent I might just think I'm onto something. (Just kidding.)

And don't think I'm not tempted every day to put Legacy out, which with a couple of good torrent seeds, would put right a shitload of wrongs. You would also see a legal smackdown ensue of galactic proportions. But regardless, I just can't bring myself to do it. Just not how I roll.

I understand quite well where you're coming from, and I second your notion on not to do it. Personally, I will be infinitely grateful if you only continue your work on posting information and screenshots on your website! I find your thoughts and take on the films and your work on them very interesting in and of itself. Besides, it might just happen that, one day, one of Lucas many movie releases comes just close enough to what I want for me to actually bother to take on the task of editing, or should I say restoring it into the science fantasy adventure fairy tale I'd like and love to see once again.
Post
#242482
Topic
Info: Anyone Got A Spare 1300 Bucks? Star Wars 16mm on ebay...
Time
Originally posted by: Karyudo
[from] the Monty Python sketch "How To Do It":
Jackie Well, first of all become a doctor and discover a marvellous cure for something, and then, when the medical profession really starts to take notice of you, you can jolly well tell them what to do and make sure they get everything right so there'll never be any diseases ever again.

Thanks, I hadn't heard that in a while!
Post
#239507
Topic
Ducks in Star Wars?
Time
Originally posted by: JarHead413
By that same logic YIYF, it's possible that on some other planet we have not encountered in the SW universe there was a cultural equivilent of the 50's style of living. Let's just say it's not impossible, but infinitely gayer than mentioning ducks or Hell or Falcons.

None of these things have ever bothered me actually, especially not those from the OT since they're rather small and insignificant. In the PT, design and execution always tended towards the more contrived and inappropriate by default:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/lord3vil/shreknass-1.jpg
I don't care that Shrek was made after Episode 1. Whatever his coolness factor, he just isn't fitting for a live action movie feature like Star Wars!
Post
#239500
Topic
Ducks in Star Wars?
Time
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Yeah same here. Ducks are creatures and could theoretically evolve elsewhere in the universe, but the 1950s were a cultural thing. Earth Culture. It never should have been in there.

It's not quite a 1950s diner, although the crucial point is of course that it's close enough, so that the source of inspiration is a dead giveaway. This is an interesting point on the list of the many things that went wrong with the prequels. The PT, like the OT, is full of subtle analogies and parallels to the real world, but the notable difference is that where the OT artists took something familiar from several sources and then redesigned and extrapolated it into something that was just subconsciously familiar to the viewer at the time, the PT craftsmen too often simply made a few small tweaks, making it blatantly and intrusively obvious to everyone what had influenced their work and what the original starting point was.

A practical example of this is Yoda in the OT and the Nemodians in the PT. Yoda is a character which, both in character and appearance, appears to have been subtly inspired by the Asian culture of knowledge and wisdom as well as the great Western philosophers and then extrapolated in age into an over 800 year old sage of unparalleled wisdom. It worked great because the end result appeared refreshingly new (no pun intended) and everyone saw something slightly different in him, so lots of very different people were collectively able to recognize something familiar to them, something similar, and when he reveals his true identity to Luke, there is soon no doubt in anyone's mind about what sort of character he really is. He was just the perfect wizard and philosopher for this type of fairy tale.

Contrast this with the Nemodians in the PT, which were poorly designed and voiced, consequentially with the exact opposite result. Lots of people saw a strong controversial Asian connection immediately, but due to the nonsensical and cartoonish design of these characters, it was never really possible for people to agree in any way on what sort of cultural aspect they actually represented, if any at all. Accusations and arguments about derogatory cultural stereotypes and racism soon ensued, and little is known on whether the dust ever fully settled on that debate or whether it was silenced simply because the PT movies just got old pretty fast and everyone grew tired both them and the new characters really quickly. In the end though, nobody really cared.
Post
#239467
Topic
How George Lucas created the O-OT fanbase...
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
[BluRay and HD-DVD] might end up existing side-by-side for a long time.

I really think this could turn out to be a good thing, as it presents a greater likelihood that we (the consumers) end up with the best product in the long run. For all we know, this might even cause us to end up with the best of both worlds eventually, i.e. the best storage capacity combined with the best codecs. Multi-format players capable of handling CDs and DVDs containing video and audio data in numerous formats are already quite common, so at the moment at least it doesn't seem so unrealistic either.
Post
#239382
Topic
How George Lucas created the O-OT fanbase...
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: lord3vil
This is most likely incorrect. Lucas likes to portray himself as a visionary by revision, so it is possibly true that the original Star Wars is only 25% of what he would have preferred it to be today. However, going by the interviews he gave back in the day, the original Star Wars came pretty close to what he actually wanted back then, even though it still wasn't quite 100% perhaps.

Very true. I never meant to imply that Lucas was saying anything close to the truth in the quote I mentioned. Based upon his rough story ideas and the way he invented elements on the spot, I can't see how he can argue that much of anything was outside of what he wanted besides some technical feats.

Yeah, I understand what you mean and I didn't really intend to imply in any way that you were trying to present it as fact. That was just poor wording on my part.

Other than that I agree with what you say. The information available to us about what happened back then (through old articles, reviews, interviews, documentaries etc.) strongly suggests that there were only a few rough conceptual ideas and a rough story based on the template of myths and legends, combined with a considerable amount of improvising, revision, trial and error and creative impulse. There was no "grand vision" and Lucas simply changed and updated the draft continously as he got better ideas over time, and after it was all shot on film he was done with it for over ten years, until he decided it was time to find new ways to earn more money off the franchise. (Incidentally, this is about the same time it took him to transform completely from an artistic filmmaker to a cynical businessman.)
Post
#238964
Topic
Star Wars before 1977
Time
I came across some articles from the New York Times, finally with some links this time. I especially liked From 'American Graffiti' To Outer Space, which is an interview with George Lucas on the set of Star Wars from 1976, apparently done as they were filming the trash compactor scene.

This page contains links to some of NYT's articles on the original trilogy, their original reviews of the OT films, as well as other features. Highly recommended!
Post
#238763
Topic
Star Wars: 30th Anniversary (2007 - New Box-set)
Time
Originally posted by: Scruffy
Actually, the latter COA is indicated.
Experience from the real world has shown us that he does both, as I said. While there is no doubt that he will happily release sub-par products to maximise profit (we agree on this), he also, for example, made the decision at some point to produce a laserdisk master for a relatively small market. Why did Lucas do this? Generally speaking, he did it because the return on investment makes it pay off in the long run, in the sense that spending money to renew the product from time to time will yield a significantly greater profit than simply exhausting all the marketing possibilities after the initial outlay. Star Wars became a phenomenon, not just because it was good, but also because Lucas cleverly reinvested significant amounts of money into the franchise to keep it going. If he hadn't followed this strategy, Star Wars would have worn off just like any other fad, as evidenced by the relative drought of Star Wars products in the mid to late 1980s. (On a different note, Lucas also has no other products to invest in which can yield him a profit of the same order of magnitude and this has also contributed significantly to the longevity of Star Wars, but that's beside the point.)
The former COA requires a significant investment (finding/striking a good print, scanning it, downrezzing for DVD, QA) and shuts off a future revenue stream (fanboys who think if they buy it the next one will be done right).

As you correctly point out, this does shut off a future revenue stream, so the investment isn't made before this source of income is close to exhausted. The important thing to remember, which you have omitted, is that the investment creates a new product, which can be sold and resold with all the spin offs and special editions you can imagine for the purpose of generating even more profit. The point is that you'll make much more on the bottom line from doing this all over again with the new product rather than trying to squeeze the few last pennies of profit out of the old one. So you go this route, and you do this until the market is saturated once more and the cycle starts over again.
The latter COA requires very little investment -- Lucas can pretty much use the same technique he's using now, bundling with an extant product and marketing it as something new. For all the releasing his does, he produces very little, and I expect this to continue. (Barring some technological singularity, like the sudden mass adoption of HD content.)

The creation of HD content is just one of the potentially upcoming investment and product cycles. Provided there is a viable HD market at some point in the future, Lucas will know how to profit from that as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending what Lucas is doing. I want a proper quality OOT release just as much as you do, and I'm not even willing to buy the stuff he puts out in place of what I want. What I'm saying is that what he's doing makes perfect sense if his goal is to maximise profit, and that's pretty much a given by now. On September 12, Lucas will ride again, and he will be laughing all the way to the bank once more, but at least he won't be carrying any of my hard-earned cash with him.
Post
#238736
Topic
Star Wars: 30th Anniversary (2007 - New Box-set)
Time
Originally posted by: Scruffy
On the other hand, if Lucas can be convinced there's money to be made by dicking around with the fans, releasing cheaply-made inferior products, bundling them to maximize revenue, and banging the "Last Chance to Own!" drum again and again, he'll continue doing that.
Well of course he will. Lucas just wants to earn more money. If he can earn more money by giving people what they want, he will do so. Naturally, this also means that if he can earn more money by doing something that displeases a large portion of the fanbase, he will, as we have seen in the past, do that as well.
Which of these two courses of action are indicated by his historical and present activities?

Both actually. At one point he stated that the Star Wars movies would not be made available on VHS, but it happened eventually. He also said he would not release them on DVD, but after a while he did. All the while he does these things, he exploits most of the publicity stunts and maketing tricks available to him, so that he can earn as much money as possible. Did I mention that experience tells us that, more than anything else, Lucas is out to earn as much money off Star Wars as he can?

I, for one, won't be buying the Sep. 12 release and will instead wait to see what the 2007 set brings. Perhaps more disappointment, and if so, I won't be buying that one either.
Post
#238654
Topic
How George Lucas created the O-OT fanbase...
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup

I just read an interview of his where he said the original Star Wars was only 25% of what he wanted.
This is most likely incorrect. Lucas likes to portray himself as a visionary by revision, so it is possibly true that the original Star Wars is only 25% of what he would have preferred it to be today. However, going by the interviews he gave back in the day, the original Star Wars came pretty close to what he actually wanted back then, even though it still wasn't quite 100% perhaps.
If that's true, why should he go back and fuck up an already good film with his additions?

He does this because he isn't the same person today as he was 30 years ago. Almost any person will change quite a lot over such a period of time for that matter, and frequently over much shorter timespans as well, all dependent on the events in our lives. Depending on what order of magnitude in terms of change we look at, you've changed slightly even as you read this very sentence. A minute change, and perhaps not a significant one on the level of day-to-day life, but a change nevertheless. Lucas is just an example of someone who ins't really willing to accept this, that this is what was and this is what is and just let it be.

He should have just made all the movies brand new and not bothered to change the old. Then his Saga would truly tie together. Though he doesn't like Star Wars enough for that kind of commitment I'd guess. That would be too much work for our lethargic filmaker.

I'm almost beginning to wonder whether Lucas will eventually turn into a manic recluse, as obsessed with editing the Star Wars movies into ever new versions of his "grand vision" as Howard Hughes was with collecting jars of his own urine. In the end though, it's all about the money of course.
Post
#238650
Topic
George Lucas' business conglomerate
Time
Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Originally posted by: lord3vil
make good movies—or at least the kind of movies they like.

At least.

I don't know... The rate at which Jar Jar almost disappeared from the prequels after TPM makes it easy to question even this. Lucas was very fond of Jar Jar as a technical achievement and conceptual character. I think that, for all practical purposes, it's only about the money for him nowdays. While you will probably be right in saying that Lucas simply likes to make the kind of movies which appeal the most to the market, regardless of his own tastes and opinions, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that this isn't what he meant when he said this back in 1978.