krlozdac

NeverarGreat said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I for one think the only hole that needs patching in TLJ is Holdo. There is a clearly ADR dialog spoken when she says “I’ve dealt with plenty of trigger happy flyboys like you.”

The idea would be to replace that with something like “But there could be a First Order informant on board.”

So the whole thing would go as follows: “Of course you do. I understand. But there could be a First Order informant on board. You’re impulsive, dangerous, and the last thing we need right now. So stick to your post, and follow your orders.”

Changing that line so extensively would probably clash with the rest of the scene, though.

“I just want to know what’s going on.”
“Of course you do. I understand. But what I want is a captain I can trust. You’re impulsive…dangerous…and the last thing we need right now.”

This keeps the suggestion that there may be those among the crew that are less than trustworty, while focusing the conversation on the real sticking point between these two characters. It’s important that we don’t make Holdo so transparent in her reasoning that we think Poe is the unreasonable one…there still needs to be a communication breakdown between them.

I was on an experimenting mood and tried this out: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CWGPfT4agOt8APKajHcE9Nw4qljB0xGt/view?usp=sharing

That’s awesome. I wonder the most about the Anakin on fire pic and how it’ll look in motion and play out in the story.

It says V6 but now that you mention it, I think I might have an older unfixed version of V6.

Hi Hal, I hate to be that guy because I know this edit is pretty much closed but I found an error with there being an extra frame when you cut from Luke seeing the Falcon leave to Finn, Rose and DJ in the ship.

I like that Vader/Luke deleted scene in isolation but I think it was wisely cut out for better pacing and dramatic reveal.

I does not track for me with Leia’s character that she would be afraid of her inner darkness so much that she would quit being a Jedi. If anything that would be sort of a reason to keep being one and working on that. Idk. It’s a good clean up but I don’t personally mind the original idea of Leia sensing the death of her son at the end of her Jedi path (which explains why her body only disappears after Ben dies).

Jar Jar Bricks said:

"Nobody can claim those the Force made.”

I understand what you’re going for but I believe from a dramatic standpoint this wording kind of defuses the tension for the audience on whether or not she will prevail at the end against Palpy. This basically implies that she will win because it’s rigged by Deus Ex anyway.

Also, it’s not a really true statement. Palpatine definitely claimed Anakin as his servant for the bulk of his life, even though he was made by the Force. Sure, he came around at the end but that was after decades of being used as a tool.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

No problem! Hey krylozdac, would you mind drafting up those same tests with these lines instead? I just want to see how it would sound.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HkIoQzFIqkMwVeJ9Hl-k3Q_zAmiOhREA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ciu5FBt4cltg0hBY4MVA48r_Y7wVw57y/view?usp=sharing

Better late than never!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QefSEGWnl20lQNRj8iIqGTQ7tPBLpHOU/view?usp=sharing

I will paste here the original intent of this idea when it was for Ascendant:

Basically, given that we see in the crawl that Kylo is on Mustafar chasing whispers of a hidden power and we see Vader’s castle, what if as soon as Kylo finishes killing the cultists he hears the voice of Vader guiding him towards the Wayfinder and that’s what makes him turn his head so suddenly?

I think this way the audience can make a stronger relation between Vader, his castle, the Wayfinder and it quickly reintroduces Kylo Ren’s existence in the shadow of his grandfather. By doing this, when he arrives on Exegol, the reveal of “I have been every voice you have ever heard inside your head” feels even more surprising given that its giving you a twist on the earlier assumption that Vader was talking to him and also when Palpy says “Become what your grandfather could not” it now feels like its something that has meaning to him as a character.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

No problem! Hey krylozdac, would you mind drafting up those same tests with these lines instead? I just want to see how it would sound.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HkIoQzFIqkMwVeJ9Hl-k3Q_zAmiOhREA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ciu5FBt4cltg0hBY4MVA48r_Y7wVw57y/view?usp=sharing

Oh does sound good! I’m gonna try to send it tonight when I’m free.

Btw, what are you using to train the voice?

Oh you guys are completely right. I read the original itent some days ago and forgot about that aspect. Sorry!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Yeah, like I said, once I put Kylo wandering through the snow at the beginning in, his line ideally won’t come in too soon. He hears a Sithy whisper, and this puts him on edge as he goes deeper.

A hypothetical first-time viewer wouldn’t know it at the time, but I chose “You are unworthy” because it is meant to refer to the idea that Rey is possibly the superior heir to the Sith throne, at least in Palpatine’s mind. I think it’s best to leave it vague so we can keep that.

The thing about the insecurity of Rey being a worthier Sith heir wouldn’t land with either Kylo Ren or the audience given that as far as he and we are concerned, at this point of the story the Emperor just wants to have her killed. The drama is that instead of doing that he’s planning on having her side with him. It is not revealed till later that Palpatine wants her as the heir. Therefore I think leaning into that at this point of the story is a bit premature.

On another note, there’s an old concept I brought up at the Ascendant thread but it wasn’t executed properly because I didn’t have a good enough Vader clone. Sounds like you have figured it out.

The idea was this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gjKx7o3NC9aTZX1nDYD8ItbkJ6xn8BSp/view

Basically, it’s sort of a way to create a tenous link between the Wayfinder and Vader given that it’s his and it’s in his castle. Also reestablish who Kylo’s grandfather is before the Emperor brings him up and adds a little bit more of set up to the reveal of “I have been every voice you have ever heard of inside your head.”

As an added benefit for this particular edit, it would make their confrontation and Vader’s ‘killing’ more cathartic imo.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Agreed on both fronts. Here is another test:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HnI8y_Diz62HWHn6T7p12_c226L4Y3Z8/view?usp=sharing

But keep in mind I’m (still) yet to add back in the part of him wandering through the snow and hearing a whisper that draws him deeper into the forest. Once that’s in I think most of the pacing issues will be gone. I’m just waiting to add that back in until we’re satisfied with the dialogue.

I really dig this idea.

I think the line “you were never real” comes in a little too soon. I think it shouldn’t start until we see the the back of Kylo Ren. Otherwise it seems like he notices too soon. The previous iterations of the lines felt more straightforward.

I think it would be cool for Vader to say something like “You’re unworthy of the dark side.” Then Kylo stabs him and retorts “I’m the master of the Knights of Ren.” I think this would segue nicely to the next scene.

I feel like this concept of them being surrogate parents deviate too much from canon.

They do reference a raid at the Festival of Ancestors so I’d think it shouldn’t be too removed from that point in the film.

I would make the argument that the line “Leia knew it too” does not necessarily mean that they knew all throughout the previous movies. It could be taken to meaning that she and Luke have known since his death. It’s ambiguous enough and I think it’s better than spelling it.

Burbin said:

True, but the conversation starts with Rey outwardly confessing her vision to Luke, whereas her lineage is something Luke has to coax out of her, it’s clear that carries a heavier burden to her in the moment, and is what’s convinced her the vision will become true. Saying Leia knew about the vision but not her lineague is a much less impactful revelation, since we can assume she believed, like Rey did before the rest of the movie, that she could overcome it by focusing on her Jedi training. You might as well just say Leia sensed her pull to the dark, or the darkness inside her, which would work for the Nobody cut, but for the Rey Palpatine version it makes more sense for the conversation to stay focused on the big reveal.

I quite agree. I think the “You are family” line makes the “Leia knew it too” line work much better.

I skimmed through the changes. The AI voices are very well integrated now. Kudos!

I was opposed to Leia telling Rey “You are family” from a writing standpoint because I thought it undercuts her journey and I still believe that, but I must say it made me quite emotional hearing that on the scene. Not only for what it means to Rey but because it made Leia feel more alive and present in the movie than ever before.

Good God that’s awesome.

Yes, you’re right. That part I wasn’t clear enough about. So are we to assume that Kylo Ren knows before getting to Exegol that he knows Palpatine is guarding the Final Order fleet?

I have always bumped into something that I want to bring up. The original crawl states that Kylo “rages in search of the phantom emperor, determined to destroy any threat to his power”. The film supports this by showing that when he arrives to Exegol the first thing he does is turn on his lightsaber before getting down the temple and also the first thing he says in retort to a seemingly benign statement by Palpatine is “I killed Snoke, I’ll kill you”. The movie makes it very clear that he’s going to Exegol to kill.

However, Ascendant’s crawl says that what he seeks on Exegol is a “hidden power that would allow him to destroy any threat to his rule”. This is not reflected in the behavior that he shows in the film. If his mission is really to get this power it would make little sense why he would be so confrontational and gung-ho on killing whatever is on Exegol. Sure, he has always been an erratic character but you would imagine he would be in a more exploratory attitude if he still presumably does not know how to retrieve the power he seeks. I think it runs the risk of muddling the character motivations. Is he there to retrieve a power or is he there to kill it?

Lol no arguments here. But like you said before, they probably wanted to make it seem like they had planned this all along. Dear JJ can’t even plan his vacation.

As dumb as it sounds, I think it is better for it to have a name you can refer to. Otherwise the different factions of the bad guys can get murky in a film that if anything requires clarity.

The way I see it, the Final Order is to the First Order what the Republic was to the Resistance.

I’m on the camp of not explaining it. I never bumped into that one in the movie theater as I felt that it was a power that made sense for Jedi to have originally and to have abandoned by the time of the PT as they got more dogmatic and became more and more detached.

I applaud the incredible rendition for the Force healing illustration. However, I do think that at a conceptual level, it is a tad coincidental that Rey was reading up about that particular power the very day she would need to use it twice (and presumably for the first time since it is suggested she doesn’t leave the base).

I think having her verbally tell BB-8 that she read up on it in the books is enough of an explanation if one would actually want to include one. I personally don’t think it’s super necessary to have any explanation (after all, nobody questioned Baby Yoda using it) but that’s beside the point, I guess.

Alluding to the concept of Force healing before it happens feels a tad premature imo vs having Rey look up the Wayfinder on the book because she saw it in her vision, which serves a plot function that strenghten the connective tissue of the whole first act and pays off in the third act.

I think Palpatine’s plan was clear enough in that the audience never expects him to be trustworthy about what his true intentions are.

I’ve been thinking, in order to give some useful plot function to Rey’s vision, how about showing glimpses of Kylo Ren using the Wayfinder and going through the Nebula? I think this would motivate Rey checking out the Wayfinder on the book (if that’s still something that’s being kept), which then feeds into her showing Leia. Also it makes it so that when Rey gets the Wayfinder from Kylo’s Tie whisperer, she has at least already seen it there before and it doesn’t feel as much like it’s coming out of nowhere.