kk650

n00b said:

kk650 said:

I don't see why the image quality of the footage taken from the blu-ray should be reduced just so the difference in quality between the GOUT footage and the blu-ray footage is less. That doesn't make much sense to me, that the blu-ray footage image quality should suffer for the sake of the GOUT footage, so the overall image quality of the encode is less.

The GOUT uprezes fine to 1080p, I should know, I reinstated Lapti Nek and the original Jedi Ghosts scene with Sebastian Shaw from the GOUT to my Return of the Jedi Semi-Specialised Edition, they look fine in 1080p alongside the blu-ray footage, I've never received any complaints. Harmy should be able do the same with his Despecialised releases now that he has the processing power.

Those are really bad examples, you know? The ghost scene looks good because there's nothing wrong about blurry ghosts and the Lapti Nek pictures that had to be taken from the GOUT are 100 % GOUT, so there's basically no compositing of both sources within the same picture. Furthermore, there's a second argument that was already presented by CatBus. Are you going to start another never-ending discussion as you did in Adywan's thread?

No, I wasn't planning to. Do I need your permission to post my thoughts in threads now n00b?

CatBus said:

I think the previously stated reason was that the Blu-ray doesn't really have more than 720p in detail (even though it's 1080p, the film transfer isn't so great), so there's not much point in 1080p until some source better than the Blu-ray becomes available.  Not that it couldn't be done--it's just a lot more time and a lot larger file sizes for something that, for the most part, won't be noticeably better even in the 100% BD-sourced scenes.  Cue shot of Tarkin at 720p and 1080p...

Hmm, while it is true that the Star Wars OT blu-ray transfers are not the most detailed transfers out there, they could definately use a 4k remastering, they still look noticably better in 1080p than they do in 720p IMHO, at least from my experience encoding to both 1080p and 720p.

I am certain that his Despecialised releases would look better in 1080p and now that he has the processing power to handle it, why not?

n00b said:

kk650 said:

If that's the case I think it would be a real shame because you now have the processing power to create a high quality 1080p encode of The Empire Strikes Back Despecialized Edition.

It wouldn't be because in that case, the gap between GOUT and blu-ray material would be much more visible. This has been discussed more than a dozen times.

I don't see why the image quality of the footage taken from the blu-ray should be reduced just so the difference in quality between the GOUT footage and the blu-ray footage is less. That doesn't make much sense to me, that the blu-ray footage image quality should suffer for the sake of the GOUT footage, so the overall image quality of the encode is less.

The GOUT uprezes fine to 1080p, I should know, I reinstated Lapti Nek and the original Jedi Ghosts scene with Sebastian Shaw from the GOUT to my Return of the Jedi Semi-Specialised Edition, they look fine in 1080p alongside the blu-ray footage, I've never received any complaints. Harmy should be able do the same with his Despecialised releases now that he has the processing power.

That's a nice setup you've got there Harmy, looks a lot more powerful than my rig! Two monitors as well! My setup is certainly a lot more amateur than that.

With all that processing power, are you planning to release this as an 1080p release? The reason I ask is because those screencaps you posted have a width of 1280 which is the width of 720p, suggesting that you only plan to create a 720p encode. If that's the case I think it would be a real shame because you now have the processing power to create a high quality 1080p encode of The Empire Strikes Back Despecialized Edition.

Star Wars Despecialized Edition could certainly use a boost to 1080p as well, now that you have the tools, why not?

rockin said:

Awesome news kk650!

Do you have anything lined up yet for Empire?

I certainly do. I don't like to keep you guys that support me and enjoy my releases waiting. :)

I have been working on all three OT films in conjunction to maintain a consistant look across the whole trilogy. All the editing and most of the grading work is pretty much done so Empire Strikes Back should be available for release soon after this release, most likely in a week or two.

Cheers guys!

I should probably include the details of this Star Wars Semi-Specialised Edition from the first post to give everybody a better idea of how this release differs from the official blu-ray:

STAR WARS: Semi-Specialised Edition

Below is a brief summary of the changes made to this film:

Star Wars:

Audio changes:

Original Krayt Dragon call restored

New lossless pcm audio track created to fit this semi-specialised edition, based off Belbucus's excellent 1993 Star Wars PCM audio mix

Video Changes:

Regraded to remove blue tint running throughout the whole film that was introduced for the first time in the special edition DVD and was carried over to the blu-ray

R2D2 no longer hiding behind a CG rock when Obi One Kenobi appears

Silly CG droid and jawa antics when they enter Mos Eisley have been removed

Jabba scene removed

Han shoots Greedo first with no awful CG head dodging action

Lightsabers made more consistant so they are not constantly changing colour, Vader's lightsaber is now red all the time rather than turning pink.

Okay, I've been focusing all my attention these last few days on getting the Star Wars Semi-Specialised Edition finished for May the 4th and it is proceeding very nicely.

Here's a little preview clip to show how the colour grading is going to look in this Star Wars Semi-Specialised Edition V2:

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https://mega.co.nz/#!T9BllRhR!CNc1-aYgcGBrcTLdLLPThyxECJ54Q_8agk28xUpich4

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Here's the same preview clip taken from the official blu-ray to compare to the clip above:

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https://mega.co.nz/#!O5JF1CCI!-x3UyB_NjpB5WysikWhcWwMaj576270sUYIV9RrHeaI

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And here are some comparison shots taken from the preview clip between the official blu-ray and the semi-specialised release (note the removal of the distracting red light in vaders eye in the third and fourth comparison on the semi-specialised edition, one of many corrections made to this semi-specialised edition like correcting the lightsaber colours and making them consistant):

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http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/73007/

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/73008/

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/73011/

Lacerated said:

I never liked PJ's cinema coloring for TTT and ROTK.  I think they were too dull and wished he would've kept the FOTR coloring.

 A lot of that dullness actually comes from the blanket green tints over TTT and ROTK, remove them and the films become a lot more appealing.

For all those interested, the regraded The Two Towers Extended Edition 25gb release is now also up on tehparadox.

DoomBot said:

What kind of changes were needed or made for the other two movies?

In terms of colour, The Two Towers and Return of the King official blu-rays have blanket green tints over them as well, though they're a lot more subtle than with Fellowship of the Ring, so the regraded releases correct that.

In terms of image dynamics, there are no changes whatsoever, I think the official blu-rays of TTT and ROTK are perfectly fine as they are in that regard.

In terms of editing, there will be no changes to TTT and ROTK in these two 25gb releases. I have in the past created an edited version of ROTJ though that cuts out the whole scene with the corsairs with PJ being shot by Legolas, I felt it took away from Aragorn's appearing with the army of the dead later on during the battle. I also cut the bit with Aragorn beheading the Mouth of Sauron, it didn't happen in the book, the Mouth of Sauron was allowed to leave unharmed. Aragorn would never do anything so dishonourable as kill an emissary under Parlay, I do not know what PJ was thinking there. I could release this edited version as a 25gb release as well but i'll have to see whether there is any interest.

Lacerated said:

I like the classic look as well.

Yeah, it looks like pretty much everybody that's voted has prefered that version, myself included. It also matches the saturation levels of the second and third films, which was very much deliberate on my part. I'm just wondering whether I should remove the more colourful version to avoid confusion. Does anybody prefer the more colourful version and want it to stay?

I'm really surprised by how little feedback i'm getting here for this regraded Fellowship of the Ring release, the official blu-ray is so clearly messed up that I expected there to be a lot more demand in this forum for a release that fixes the many problems the blu-ray has. As DoomBot said, the improvement that this regraded Fellowship of the Ring Extended Edition release makes to the official blu-ray is pretty huge yet there seems to be little interest based on the amount of feedback.

As for The Two Towers, i've run into problems with artifacts during the credits which i've now fixed but it has delayed me a bit but it should be up by the end of today.

I'm personally going to try my utmost to release my new Star Wars Semi-Specialised edition on Star Wars Day. I think DJ is planning to release his Star Wars '97 SE on that day as well.

Thanks StarmanSkywalker!

I'm currently finishing off my regraded versions of The Two Towers and Return of the King but then i'll be back to these Semi-Specialised editions. Regrading settings are pretty much finalised, so all that needs to be done is some audio editing, then they'll be good to go.

If you like what you're seeing with those screencaps, you're in for a real treat with these Semi-Specialised editions! :)

Thanks DoomBot! :)

I'm also very happy with how the two latest Fellowship of the Ring releases turned out, especially the less saturated standard release.

If you're also interested in the second and third Lord of the Rings films, the regraded The Two Towers release should be up by tomorrow afternoon.

DoomBot said:

Thanks kk650!

My pleasure. :)

25gb regraded releases of The Two Towers and Return of the King are also going to be coming out soon in case you're interested. Now that i've done Fellowship of the Ring, might as well finish off the Lord of the Rings trilogy while i'm at it.

Nick66 said:

Add me as another vote for the desaturated version.

A request...any chance that you can include screenshots from the EE DVD and TE BD to compare against the existing EE BD and your regraded version?  Since the idea is presumably to bring this fine film in its extended edition as close as possible to the colours in its theatrical, green-tintless counterpart as possible, I'd think that comparisons to the EE DVD and TE BD might be useful.  Just a thought. 

Hmm, I don't think there's much point. Trust me when I say that the image dynamics very closely match for most of the scenes. In terms of colour though, this 4k remaster is a totally different animal to the theatrical blu-ray, most scenes have been regraded very differently by Peter Jackson and Andrew Lesnie.

I have simply removed the blanket green tint and corrected the messed up image dynamics of the official blu-ray, not tried to recreate the colour grading of the theatrical blu-ray. Doing that would require a shot by shot regrade that I simply don't have the time to do.

DoomBot, the standard edition is now up as well. :)

Thanks rockin! That's now 5 votes for what i've decided to call the 'standard edition' and 0 votes for the 'more colourful' edition.

As for the whites being pink/purple tinted, they're not on my professionally colour calibrated monitor. I just checked. Are you using a laptop perhaps or a monitor that hasn't been colour calibrated to look at those comparisons? Things meant to be completely white always have a slight pinkish/purple tint on my laptop, so the whites on those comparisons do look pinkish/purple when I checked them on it.

Thanks for your feedback DoomBot! Looks like its currently 3 votes for the normal settings, 0 for the more colourful settings.

The normal version should be up very soon, tomorrow morning on uploaded, on netload a few hours after that. I'd just wait and download that one.

As for the very high bitrate well, the 4k remaster looks so good in terms of image quality and grain that I feel that this transfer in particular, more than most other blu-rays, really benefits from that extra bitrate. :)

Thanks Andrea, I knew I could count on you to provide feedback! :)

I agree with you about the 'classic' settings based on those screen comparisons, they just feel more 'right' to me, don't know how else to explain it. I have to check out both on my TV, see how they both look there, see if that'll help me make up my mind up 100%.

EDIT: Hmm, I think i'll just call it 'normal' rather than 'classic', i'll leave 'classic' for the Star Wars Semi-Specialised Editions. Any other suggestion for what I could call this more muted Fellowship of the Ring version?

Okay, just finished the new Fellowship of the Ring regrade using what i'm going to call the 'classic' settings. Here are some comparisons between the blu-ray and 'classic' settings regrade below:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71251

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71253/

And here are some comparisons between the first 'more colourful' settings regrade and the 'classic' settings regrade:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71254/

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71255/

Guys, please let me me know your thoughts on how they look and which of the two settings you prefer. I'm personally leaning towards the classic settings myself because I suspect that the more muted look is what Peter Jackson and Andrew Lesnie were going for with this 4k remastered transfer of Fellowship of the Ring and respecting the intentions of the filmmakers is always the most important thing of all for me.

I think these two regrades are the very best I'm able to do to make this amazing film look as good as possible.

Now, onto the Star Wars Original Trilogy...

Okay, just finished the new Fellowship of the Ring regrade using what i'm going to call the 'classic' settings. Here are some comparisons between the blu-ray and 'classic' settings regrade below:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71251

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71253/

And here are some comparisons between the first 'more colourful' settings regrade and the 'classic' settings regrade:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71254/

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71255/

Guys, please let me me know your thoughts on how they look and which of the two settings you prefer. I'm personally leaning towards the classic settings myself because I suspect that the more muted look is what Peter Jackson and Andrew Lesnie were going for with this 4k remastered transfer of Fellowship of the Ring and respecting the intentions of the filmmakers is always the most important thing of all for me.

I think these two regrades are the very best I'm able to do to make this amazing film look as good as possible.

Now, onto the Star Wars Original Trilogy...

For those that are interested, the new regraded release of Fellowship of the Ring in now up on tehparadox. Let me know what you think. :)

For those that are interested, the new regraded release of Fellowship of the Ring in now up on tehparadox. Let me know what you think. :)

rockin said:

They're very good.

After seeing every old movie remastered in a teal colour timing these days, it makes me wonder if that will be the next thing for Star Wars in the future.. But I also wonder if it were teal, would that look superior to the current blu-ray and perhaps more in line with some of the prints? Hmm.

Thanks rockin!

If they did a 4k remaster of the Star Wars films, they certainly would much better in terms of detail and retained grain than the current blu-rays, no doubt about it. You just have to look at the detail/grain on the 4k remastered fellowship of the ring blu-ray to be pretty certain that would be the case. In terms of colour though, its debatable, it depends on how strong the teal tint is.

The Star Wars Original Trilogy on blu-ray has a bluish tint across all three films and boosted contrast. Based on my experience with teal films though and fixing them, if the teal tint was on a similar level to say Titanic or The Terminator, the Star Wars Original Trilogy would look worse in teal than it currently does on the blu-rays. Teal is a colour that really does mess up all the other colours, I still have no idea why the studios insist on adding it to every film these days...

Thank you oh_riginal and DoomBot, i'm glad that you like what you're seeing!

I'm going to go ahead and start encoding the more desaturated version now to give people a choice but i'll also start uploading this one. It should be up by tomorrow morning, fingers crossed.