imperialscum

generalfrevious said:

The Ewoks only existed to sell toys. Everyone knows this. 

That's a dumb statement. The furry creatures were part of the story from the beginning. They changed it from Wookiees to Ewoks because it is harder to get lots of 2.20m actors then lots of short ones.

Now the common sense. How many of you actually wanted or even had Ewok toy as a kid? I don't know anyone who did.

Thrawn said:

Too bad he didn't consider being authentic with Star Trek. I seriously have my doubts that he will in any way honor or respect the Star Wars universe, but that's my own personal viewpoint based on what I have seen of his movies. I sincerely do hope I'm wrong.

I don't think that's really up to him. Lucas' story treatment and Arndt's screenplay will define things.

Film director (if not also a writer) is basically more or less an operational director. In general, I think writers should get more credit than the director since they are the real creative force.

Bingowings said:

Willow is a better Star Wars film than Jedi

I don't think I will be taking you seriously any more. :)

Ryan McAvoy said:

Hey, it's me. said:

How do you know Vader didnt send troops to investigate? He obviously sensed Luke was still alive. Maybe the TIEs that intercept the Falcon were there to search for Luke and stumbled upon it rescuing him. That's the way I see it. 

Oh I totally agree, I was just making a point about things not being explained in all 6 of the SW films.  But as I said I don't care that things aren't explained on screen.  Exposition is can be a curse on cinema if over used.

The problem is that certain people only see them in ROTJ. If you listen to Bingo everything in ANH and ESB is perfect while ROTJ has all the "flaws".

Bingowings said:

Clearly Jabba is more keen on making an example of Solo than getting his money back so it's one of the few plot points of ROTJ that make sense.

Well but it doesn't make sense in ESB. He promised to get right back with the payment in front of his men in ANH. He made a fool of him in front of his men. So deciding to pay him after 3 years (in ESB) is ridiculous and useless because Jabba wouldn't let him go. That is like deciding to commit a suicide.

Not to mention he already had bounty on his head and I don't think he would even reach Jabba before someone would collect it (even if it was in front of his Palace). Just like Greedo would have killed him and collected the bounty, despite Solo trying to convince him he is going to pay Jabba. I mean bounty hunters aren't stupid. On top of that the bounty hunter would just take his pay-off money too.

What you guys are doing now is just nitpicking on minor stuff. That's like going after "Han bounty" thing in ESB. Why didn't Han pay Jabba in 3 years? And why the hell did he decide to pay him after 3 years when Jabba wasn't after the money anyway. After 3 years Jabba was after making an example of him to regain his pride and reputation. There is no way Jabba would leave an impression a petty smuggler can make a fool out of him. I mean just how did Han expect Jabba to let him go with a payment?

Now this is a bit better. Still I think these things are details and I disagree with most of it.

I mean I like Solo not being serious or scared when they were about to cook him. That's old Solo. I mean if he knew he was going to get killed he sure wasn't going down crying. He was going down in style. As for his rescue, I posted the probable plan in some other thread. It may be very fragile but this is a fantasy after all.

If you don't see any emotional transitions, it doesn't mean there aren't any. Ewoks traps, some props being reused and not seeing bothans before mentioned... I really couldn't care less about details like that. Actually just mentioning stuff without showing it in the film makes the whole film universe seem greater. Just like the "Kessel run" in ANH or "gundrak" in ESB.

Bingowing, you can tone down the Ewok stuff now. :) If you haven't noticed I wasn't even discussing ROTJ. I was pointing out the silly way you present your opinion. You drop in some general cliche critique like "bad story, poor acting". And when one is expecting a detailed explanation to follow, you just leave it at that and instead go on and write a novel about Ewoks. Do you just attach that general cliche in attempt to make you opinion look better, more valid?

It was funny that the more I asked you to leave Ewoks and explain the "bad story, poor acting" thing, the more you went on about Ewoks.

Bingowings said:

Actual examples of what?

of this...

Bingowings said:

I've mentioned the stupid giant threat eraser, the lazy acting, the make do and mend recycling, the lack of directorial panache.

But never mind. I will satisfy myself with the general cliche when it comes to the crucial stuff. After all, I was given a very detailed insight of the irrelevant Ewoks stuff. :p

Bingowings said:

By cheap storying telling I mean ticking off and clearing every possible hanging thread.

That never happens in real life and when it happens all in the last chapter it's clunky, unsophisticated and rubbish.

Now when you should provide some actual examples you seem to fail to do so. Instead of going on about the useless Ewok stuff half of your post, you should be providing examples of this. At this moment, I might remind you that SW and ESB have those kind of unrealistic scenarios too.

Bingowings said:

By by the numbers I mean almost everyone other than Mark and Ian just winging it.

Well Luke, Vader and Emperor character development is the main storyline of this film. Other stuff (such as Han and Leia) is secondary. And Ewoks (which seems to be your personal focus of the film) are irrelevant. You are actually contradicting yourself. You stated that Luke/Emperor stuff is good and on the other hand you say the film story is bad. How can it be bad if you stated that its core is good?

About Han and Liea. Well yes Ford wanted to avoid the film before they even started it and he didn't do his best. But more importantly, Lucas' completely exhausted Han and Leia character potential in ESB. So it was little left for ROTJ. All he could go for was this "love triangle" stuff.

minor note: Could you please improve your usage of paragraphs. It is hard for people to understand the main points and reply to your post. No offence. :)

Tobar said:

imperialscum said:

Erikstormtrooper said:

It was the story line that was questionable.

It wasn't "questionable". It sucked and on top of that it pissed on OT characters.

Care to expand on that?

They write some random nobody character and make him beat both Vader and Emperor. That is beyond stupid.

When a writer lacks talent and originality, the easiest way for him to do something is to parasite on something good that was previously made. "Oh look my character is so cool he was Vader's secret apprentice and he beaten both Vader and Emperor".

Bingowings said:

It's insanely cheap story telling.

Everything else is just by the numbers (just like the PT).

These two sentence (while I understand they are being your opinion) make no sense at all. Care to elaborate on them? And please if you could go a little deeper than the usual insignificant Ewok stuff.

Also I didn't get the reply on the "ROTJ indicating the SE" thing. I would be happy if you could reply on that.

Bingowings said:

Jedi is really an indication of the SE and PT that followed it.

That is a silly statement...

Just how does ROTJ indicate to the SE? There is more miniature model based SFX in ROTJ than in any Star Wars film. Not to mention, ROTJ suffered the most from latest SEs (Hayden, NOOO, Dug)

And the prequels are fundamentally a complete opposite of ROTJ. ROTJ is essentially a pure adventure/fantasy film (I would say even more so than SW and ESB). While the prequels are essentially a soap opera about an annoying troubled kid growing up.

Bingowings said:

If you have just had the first one blown up wouldn't it make more sense to build lots of small Death Stars in different locations (each which could be finished more quickly) than an even bigger one that takes ages to finish and can be blown up in one go?

Who says it was started only after the first was destroyed? They could have started building it years before Yavin.

You see... in ww1 era if they sunk a battleship then the country made a bigger one. They didn't make a few smaller ones instead. Same in ww2 with aircraft carriers (except Japan at the end of the war). So it makes perfect sense.

I think ROTJ is on par with SW and ESB.

Any kind of comparison between the three in terms of story is stupid since the individual storylines are complementary. I think the ROTJ storyline concludes the trilogy in a great way.

Well Han and Leia took the back seat in ROTJ (compared to SW and ESB) but that most certainly doesn't mean the characters are badly written in general (as some people get the impression). It is just that other characters (and their development) are more prominent (Luke, Emperor, Jabba, Vader). ESB practically sucked Han and Leia character potential dry. To keep them going, Lucas could have postponed the love proclamation into ROTJ. But then he would degrade ESB.

Anyway I think it is great as it is. OT are my top 3 favourite films.

Hey, it's me. said:

Who would you rather, Leia or Padme? (Sorry, not a pertinent question I know. But one that needs asking I feel :))

Padme. I actually never found Leia that attractive.

twister111 said:

 

 

Cute. :)

Well there is something I like about AOTC after all.

Diego said:

Speaking of which, what the hell was Luke's plan for rescuing Han? As much as I love ROTJ, I've never been able to make any sense of the plan.

Here is how I see it. First he sent Lando to infiltrate and get familiar with Jabba's habits. He found out that Jabba care about his rancor and that his worst punishment is throwing people into Sarlacc pit. So Killing his rancor would ensure "Sarlacc". Luke knew he couldn't defeat all the thugs and bounty hunters packed together in Jabba's palace so he intended to confine them to the sail barge through "Sarlacc punishment". In order to guarantee Solo will be part of the punishment, Luke sent Leia and Cheewie to melt him out of the carbon. He knew he would be stripped of his lightsabre after killing rancor therefore he hid it into R2 so he was able to use it at the Sarlacc pit.

Yes I know this plan could be ruined by a single flaw but still... that is the only reasonable way I can think of.

Yoda's lightsabre fighting in PT is indeed stupid. Makes him look like some pathetic annoying little dog barking and running around your leg.

Well ROTJ is in my opinion completely on a par with SW and ESB. Yes it does have some "silly" things (like Ewoks) but SW and ESB have their share of "silly" things too. After all these are fantasy films.

Maybe ESB has a little better acting but that is reasonably so because the story/script offered a bit more and because twice as much time was spent on principal photography compared to either ROTJ or SW.

As for prequels, the main problem I have with them is that it is not an adventure/fantasy any more. It is a soap opera about an annoying repulsive main character. And I don't enjoy that...

OT (I love them all the same)

ROTS
TPM
AOTC

Bingowings said:

Without entropy biological processes would never have begun and would not work, because of it eventually all biological life will end so I think it pretty much trumps everything.

What I was trying to say is that as a living organism you will never leave this planet (unless you are an astronaut). We are a biological system. Throughout the life this system absorb and emit the energy. But that energy is not "us". If the system fails we are dead and we cease to exist. If the worm (another system) eats the remains we don't become the worm. The remains may be burned and the heat and light is emitted into the space but that's not us any more.

Bingowings said:

imperialscum said:

Bingowings said:

imperialscum said:

TV's Frink said:

Everyone leaves the planet eventually.

Well there is this thing called gravity.

There is this other thing called entropy.

And there is this yet another thing called biology.

Entropy always wins.

Not in this case.

Magnolia. I didn't like it.

Bingowings said:

imperialscum said:

TV's Frink said:

Everyone leaves the planet eventually.

Well there is this thing called gravity.

There is this other thing called entropy.

And there is this yet another thing called biology.