Absolutely. Remake, retread, reboot, carbon copy, whatever term you want to call it, it’s just a fan service ripoff of ANH. That’s just a given. If anyone says they don’t see it, well, there may be some cognitive dissonance at work.
I am shocked there is not more fan outrage over this.
How is TFA a remake or a reboot exactly? It looks like a sequel to me.
A lot of his points though make very much serious. The definition of nitpicking for one person might be very different from someone else’s. I’ve encountered tons of fanboys in the past week or so, and whenever I bring up that the movie is a remake of A New Hope, they say I’m nitpicking. Everyone perceives it differently. Saying some of the things he said are flat out wrong isn’t necessarily true either, as the movie left a lot of questions unanswered.
I think we can all agree though, it is a straight-forward fact at this point, regardless of opinion, the story of the movie is most definitely a carbon copy of A New Hope.
Except it is neither a remake nor is it a carbon copy of A New Hope.
Ugly? I myself thought he was an absolute dreamboat.
Ren couldn’t pull the lightsaber to himself cause it flew to Rey.
darklordoftech said:
I love that Luke wears a gold and white version of his ROTJ robes.
Gold and white? What movie did you watch? They were clearly black and blue.
I thought the prophecy from the pt was to bring balance to the force. Doesn’t Von Sydow’s character say that without Luke there can be no balance?
For all the complaints about JJ recycling ANH, I think he does some really new stuff in this movie, and his depiction of Ren is one of those things. He’s a flawed villain, instead of a perfect villain. He clearly is strong in the Force but he can’t control it. His “temper tantrums” made perfect sense to me.
They made sense to me also. I really liked that scene where you expect him to force choke or otherwise kill that officer, but instead he throws a tantrum. That scene helped show that he isn’t just a clone of Darth Vader.
What made him look pathetic was the fact that Rey and even Finn were able to hold their own against him. Considering he is supposed to have killed a number of trained Jedi, and he has had actual training whereas Rey hasn’t, that cheapened his character for me.
We don’t yet know if he killed any Jedi who had a lot of training. He could have been one of Luke’s eldest students. He also likely had help possibly from the Knights of Ren or Snoke, neither of whom we know much about at this point.
The reason why I would not have the Capital hit first is it’s A) too bold a move for the First Order still licking it wounds from the end of the Empire B) a Resistance base in First Order territory would arguably be a legitimate target as they are being attacked by them.
After Leia takes command of those loyal to her in the Republic old guard (Ackbar etc) and attacks the weapon having it destroy the capital also makes it seem legitimate self defence on the First Order’s part. Remember evil is rarely self aware. Most evil people think they are doing the right thing.
What we would be left with would be the same but by a more plausible route with Leia having more to do (a bit like Kirk in Search for Spock but on a bigger scale than pinching one ship and it’s bridge crew.
Still think she is Snoke btw which would explain why they have marginalised her role.
I just don’t see it, that would be quite the reveal if we find out that Leia is the one ultimately responsible for Han’s death.
Why would anyone go to see a film wanting to hate it? A good film is a good film. Tfa is not a good film. At least lucas has commented, I think he was polite saying it’s a retro film rather than a blatant rip off!
Didn’t he say that he really liked it and it was the film that he should have made a couple of weeks ago?
Apparently George is criticizing the film for being a “retro movie”
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/dec/31/george-lucas-attacks-retro-star-wars-the-force-awakens
According to wookieepedia it is called a Happabore.
There were also little details in the movie that didn’t make sense, like that huge pig-thing that drank and wasted enormous amounts of water, which was no doubt precious, and had little conceivable purpose.
If you think about it I guess that makes sense, but wouldn’t the same apply for the dewbacks on Tatooine? And why do the Stormtroopers magically have one after landing to search for the escape pod? Were they really keeping them in captivity on the Star Destroyer to take with them on planetary missions?
Wait… What? So Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother? I don’t remember that from the movie.
It’s in the original ROTJ script and in the original ROTJ novelization.
That’s wonderful… I thought we were discussing the films here and not early drafts of the script or novels.
Of course it’s contrived in 1980.
No, it is not.
In ANH, Vader just happens to chase Leia to the planet where his son and her brother lives…
Leia was not Luke’s sister in 1980.
and he just happens to take possession of his sister’s droids…
See above.
one of which just happens to be carrying the stolen plans his father is trying to retrieve?
Yes. According to the original storyline (forget the prequel sh!t), Obi Wan took Luke to Tatooine to live with his brother, Owen Lars. Obi Wan remained on Tatooine and lived nearby, often checking in on Luke as Luke was growing up and oftentimes coming to Luke’s aid when Luke got into trouble.
So, these are the key takeaways from this so far: Obi Wan had a small boy to care for. He logically took the boy to his brother and his wife, so that Luke could have a mother and father figure. Tatooine is a remote, dead, completely unimportant planet that virtually no one knows about and no one cares about. Perfect place for Obi Wan to go into hiding. And the perfect remote, hidden, unknown place for Luke to grow up.
Leia programmed R2 to deliver the plans to Obi Wan. She gave R2 the rough coordinates to Obi Wan’s home. R2 was on his way to deliver the plans directly to Obi Wan when he was caught by Jawas, who then sold R2 to Owen and Luke, who happened to live right there in the neighborhood.
Perfectly plausible story.
Admittedly, the story gets contrived with ROTJ and then goes to complete sh!t with the prequels.
Wait… What? So Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother? I don’t remember that from the movie.
Smoking Lizard said:
Finn has made it perfectly clear that the First Order is looking specifically for BB-8 with a perfect description of what the droid looks like. Yet they make no effort whatsoever at hiding him? Heck, we know the First Order is looking specifically for BB-8 and have an exact description of him. Let’s take him into Maz Kanata’s really, really crowded bar, packed full of sketchy characters who might just be First Order informants!Guys, it’s sloppy, slapdash, juvenile writing, as if the script was written by an 11-year-old.
Again, just a brutal takedown. Could have left the droid in the Falcon.
Well done.
Right… and just letting the wanted droids with the Death Star plans wander around Mos Eisley on their own when they were just approached by Stormtroopers moments ago made perfect sense. I guess it was more important for Luke to sit down and order a drink.
hydrospanner said:
Who said he had completed his training while he was stationed there? And where was it established that he is the First Order equivalent of the Green Beret?I’m not sure why I’m going to attempt to apply logic to this screwball story line, but let’s try anyway.
So by your thinking, Finn was a baby, learned his ABCs from his First Order teachers, grew into a teen, and then studied the textbook, “The Art of Stormtrooping, First Order Style,” and then graduated stormtrooper high school and then put a droid out of a job on Starkiller Central buy becoming the garbage man. Then, he evidently took out the garbage so well, Captain Fantasma noticed him and selected him for her elite of the elite elite squad.
Uh huh.
No, that is actually not what I was thinking at all.
I don’t see why some don’t find the idea of Finn working sanitation while stationed at the base to be so unbelievable. Aren’t new recruits in real world militaries often tasked with menial jobs before they can rise through the ranks?
Do the Green Berets complete their Green Beret training and then get assigned to the Pentagon to take out the garbage?
Answer: No.
Who said he had completed his training while he was stationed there? And where was it established that he is the First Order equivalent of the Green Beret?
I don’t see why some don’t find the idea of Finn working sanitation while stationed at the base to be so unbelievable. Aren’t new recruits in real world militaries often tasked with menial jobs before they can rise through the ranks?
Vince Gilligan had been given the job instead of JJ Abrams. Good God, just imagine the possibilities.
Surely it would have been a masterpiece. Better than ANH and ESB put together…
hydrospanner said:
Physically weak? I thought it is pretty clear that he was severely wounded from when Chewy shot him with the bowcaster, so sure he is definitely weakened from a physical standpoint.I was speaking more about his physical appearance when he took off the mask. He was, shall we say … less than intimidating. But to your point about him being wounded…
Well Darth Vader wasn’t quite as intimidating when he took his mask off either…
First of all, even if he were wounded, that is terrible storytelling. Chewie shot him with a blaster and so our protagonist, Rey, only gets to defeat a weakened version of the villain? That is awful storytelling.
Second of all, I would contend that he was evidently not wounded enough to prevent him from running and spinning and jumping and twirling about with his lightsaber.
All of that is the worst of storytelling.
I don’t see why it is such awful storytelling? Would you rather have had him be completely crippled by his wound? Or would you rather have him lose at full strength? I think both those alternatives would have made for a far worse story.
hydrospanner said:
Mental breakdown? He just killed his own father who apparently still loved him enough to caress his face after he rammed a lightsaber straight through his heart, so I am sure he actually did have a lot going on in his head.Did you miss the part when he took off his mask and dropped it to the ground? The part when he told his father he didn’t want to be a bad guy anymore and asked for help?
I would say he was having an identity crisis.
When did he say he didn’t want to be a bad guy anymore? He did say he was torn I believe. I am understanding it as the help he was seeking was for Han to let him kill him to get help rid the feeling of the call to the light he spoke of earlier.
hydrospanner said:
Force weak? Didn’t he use the force to slam Rey into a tree? Could someone who was weak in the force do that?That was force strong and consistent with his character. When he suddenly stopped using the force and got his ass kicked later in the fight, that was force-weak. All of that buildup, showing him stopping blaster bolts in mid-air, freezing people in place, throwing them against trees … where was it when he was suddenly threatened?
I think this is nitpicking and you could ask the same questions of consistency of force use in the OT. Why didn’t Vader just force choke Luke from his fighter during the trench run? Why didn’t Vader just grab Luke with the force when he took the dive at Bespin and pull him back up just like when he just used the force to toss all those heavy metal objects at Luke a few minutes ago? Why didn’t the Emperor who sensed everything sense Vader about to turn and pick him up before he tossed him down the shaft and zap him before he was able to? Probably because it wouldn’t have made for a very fulfilling story.
hydrospanner said:
He also made it clear he wanted to take Rey under his wing and teach her so you could argue he wasn’t trying to murder her and he was caught off guard by her skills when she really started using the force.This was all great up until a point. He should have been momentarily caught off guard and then the chasm should have separated them … saving Rey, not Kylo. It still would have been a dues-ex-machina ending, but at least better from a storytelling perspective than the one we were given.
Maybe this would have been better. I kind of like the idea of it ending in a stalemate, but I don’t have a problem with the way it was presented.
Well, that’s probably why we see this film in different lights. For most of two hours I watched Kylo appear physically strong, mentally strong, and force-strong. Then at the end of the film he was suddenly having a mental breakdown and appeared physically weak, mentally weak, and force-weak.
Physically weak? I thought it is pretty clear that he was severely wounded from when Chewy shot him with the bowcaster, so sure he is definitely weakened from a physical standpoint. Mental breakdown? He just killed his own father who apparently still loved him enough to caress his face after he rammed a lightsaber straight through his heart, so I am sure he actually did have a lot going on in his head. Force weak? Didn’t he use the force to slam Rey into a tree? Could someone who was weak in the force do that? He couldn’t pull the saber away, but maybe the saber had a bit of a mind of it’s own as well since it was calling to Rey earlier in the film. Also, perhaps the fact that he was physically weakened and mentally shaken was hindering his ability to properly focus and channel the force at that time as well.
Then in that battle he proceeds to critically injure Finn who has been trained to be a warrior since he was an infant with his lightsaber with relative ease. He also made it clear he wanted to take Rey under his wing and teach her so you could argue he wasn’t trying to murder her and he was caught off guard by her skills when she really started using the force.
Isn’t it also written into his character that he isn’t fully trained and fears that he will never be as powerful as Vader?
If the next two films are about showing us this poor misunderstood boy’s tender heart, and how he’s really a good boy on the inside, and he was just tricked by some mysterious monster in the shadows, are there any people who will be happy to have watched the ST?
I’d rather they didn’t go in this direction, but if they do it will all depend on if it is executed well or not. If it is done well I am sure I will have little problem with it.
I just got back from my third viewing and I have found that most of the nitpicks I had the first time around have bothered me less and less on each subsequent viewing. The exact opposite effect of what happened upon watching the prequels multiple times in my experience. It was also the first viewing for my wife who enjoys the movies, but I wouldn’t classify her as a Star Wars fan and she enjoyed it thoroughly. I am really starting to dig the music now that I am becoming more familiar with it. I am already counting down the days to see where the next episode takes us.
Luke most likely didn’t have unlimited resources either, I don’t see what he did as any different than what yoda or ben did.
I agree with this, and we don’t even know exactly what the exact circumstances or what Luke’s reason for going into exile was yet. Before the prequels we didn’t know why Ben or Yoda were either, and the explanation provided by them didn’t make any sense. Why didnt they just all go hide out on Dagobah and train up the Skywalker twins and then go after the Sith as a foursome?
Merry Christmas and Happy Life Day!
Can’t wait to watch my little guy open the Millennium Falcon Santa brought him in a few hours.
Something that just came to me- we see that Ren is pulled to the light, so he prays to Vader’s mask to help him stay down the dark path.
Does he know that Vader eventually turned to the light? Maybe if he continues to worship Vader and his mask, he will be pulled to the light?
I was reading a comment about this. Some believe Snoke is tricking Kylo by exploting the story of Vader. Vader never has spoken to Ben via the helmet or any other relics. Instead, Snoke is making it seem as if Vader speaks to Kylo Ren. Manipulating Kylo Ren into thinking Vader was this tragic hero that was under-appreciated or some shit. You could say that Luke probably already told Ben about Vader’s redemption. However, I don’t think Luke would freely boast about Vader to his new and training Jedi, including Ben. It’s a dark and emotional thing for Luke to bring up. This is of course is Luke’s flaw and allows Snoke to feed into Kylo Ren’s mind that Luke is trying to hide the ‘true’ story of Vader.
That is an interesting take. I wonder if Snoke was the one who recovered the burnt up Vader armor. Anyone notice when he takes his mask off he sets it in a pile of what looks like ashes?