I watched d_j's clip and it was a definite improvement over the GOUT for that scene, but it's hard to say whether the same settings would work for the whole movie. Also, on a different monitor it didn't come off quite as well, so this kind of thing should definitely be done with caution.
I watched The Incredibles yesterday. Man, I love this movie. Great action, great story, great animation, 'incredible' sound mix . . . everything about it is awesome.
Sometimes I think Elastigirl comes off a little too shrill occasionally, but it's only a minor thing and part of it is just me being leery of shouting women anyway. lol
I'm a fan of the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight game series. Someone once made a mod, I think it was for Jedi Outcast, that made it so every single enemy character in the game used the Wilhelm scream. It was pretty dang hilarious, but it would get old fast. lol
I do think the colour timing of the 2004 transfer is salvageable through careful correction--it's not quite as far off as it seems. However, it does have a huge amount of problems, and it's insulting to say it's just down to consumer equipment and people complaining about nothing. These problems are often very obvious. Lightsabres and laser blasts should not be magenta, not ever, and the red levels in a lot of shots are through the roof. Not to mention the hideous black crush, which is probably the worst visual aspect of the entire thing, and makes all the other problems stand out even more. The Death Star corridors should be blue to some degree, not grey as in the faded GOUT, but the new and apparently intentional blue cast often intrudes onto Vader and stormtroopers and pretty much everything else. In trying to make the backgrounds a consistent hue, rather than varying as they sometimes did in the original cinematography, they pretty much damned the colours of every other element to fluctuate wildly and beyond reason.
And of course the '04 sound is a pile of crappe, made by a tone-deaf imbecile.
Boy, they sure picked a winner to use as the source of the GOUT, didn't they? Of course, some of these things were later corrected, but still . . .
Interesting that someone pointed out the missing tractor beam line--nobody seems to have known about the mono mix, or that it had been added to the '85 version but was not in the 35mm or 70mm versions originally.
I see also the note about 'two chirps in the left channel' of Empire. I spotted this a while back on the Belbucus track and thought it was due to a corrupted upload or something, but it looks like the error was made in the mastering stage. The 'Faces' version corrected it: dark_jedi sent me that section to patch over with, so that his version and also the associated 5.1 tracks would not have the error. Not on this list is the jump-cut in the music at the beginning of the carbon freeze scene, which the Faces LD did not correct, but the VHS version (and also the GOUT) did. I'm pretty sure the GOUT Empire used the VHS audio track; not sure about the others, but I don't think so.
The Faces audio was phase-inverted compared to the DC, but that's largely inconsequential.
They also note a loud click between scenes in Star Wars on side 3, corrected in later editions. Does anyone know which scene this is? I assume Belbucus used a laserdisc set that didn't have it, but it would be good to know for sure.
The new audio was sent to me yesterday, but my connection was a pile of garbage, so I'm just getting it now. Once I've verified that it sounds right, I'll post about it on the 70mm thread.
Probably not, since they would be extremely similar to the base 1993 pcm tracks. I could, however, post 'patch' files that anyone with a basic knowledge of audio editing could use on their own copies of the '93 mixes, if there are requests for such a thing.
Since there has been some concern about the idea of using music-edited mixes in preservation projects, I've asked Satanika to help with making additional 5.1 versions of Empire and Jedi that more closely resemble the 35mm/1993 versions and do not contain these edits. So, assuming that he is able to do this, there will be more 'authentic' versions for those that prefer to hear the films that way.
Fans of the snowspeeder crash sound need not worry, for this effect will still be heard. ;) Essentially, in terms of content, both will be 5.1 representations of the 35mm versions of each film. I did not attempt to replace the main title music in Jedi, as indicated above for its 70mm mix, because I don't think there's much point in doing so, and a few parts of the special edition LFE bass may not have been there originally, but aside from that it should be fairly close to what it's supposed to sound like. All that's really missing now is the 70mm Empire mix, and since that's quite a separate and elusive thing that wouldn't even synch to the GOUT video anyway, we should pretty much be all set for sound mixes. Obviously we still don't have the discrete channels of the originals, but it's about as close as we can get with what's available.
I'll probably still watch them with the music-edited versions, just because I like the way they sound, but hopefully now everyone will be happy. :) I think of all the films I'm most fond of the sound of the original Star Wars, and in its 70mm form it finds its most ideal presentation. The only thing I really miss when hearing it is the 'deceleration' sound from the mono mix (when the Millennium Falcon comes out of hyperspace), but other than that it is nearly perfect--so much so that I wonder how anyone could feel the need to incessantly remix it and move it further away from what made it sound great in the first place.
Damn, you caught me, Mallwalker. Now everyone's going to know what I look like! *hides*
I got a call from Erica Campbell today, and she told me she likes me better. Sorry, Davnes007 . . .
It would be great to have those two shots available especially, since they were the ones most affected by horrid DVNR smearing. Undoubtedly they would be invaluable for various preservation projects, and the raw X0 captures would certainly be interesting to many also.
Today I flipped through the 2004 dvd and found that in many cases, the colouring is actually not nearly as bad as I had previously thought it to be. There's still a huge amount of problems, but it's probably not beyond salvage if timed to a proper reference.
The main issue, which makes its use the most difficult, is that the whole thing is so damn dark. The crushed blacks and general darkness are much worse than I remembered, and as a result skin tones take on an 'ultra-tan' look, such a strong brown look that is not at all natural. Reds are also hugely oversaturated in many cases--Chewie is starting to resemble Elmo half the time--and there is of course the blue cast on things that shouldn't have it, like the interior of the blockade runner and Vader and stormtrooper armour, and there are pink laser blasts and things like that. Still, if there was some way of getting past that huge black crush, the rest of it could fall into place without too much difficulty, because it's often not as far off as it seems.
(But the '04 sound mix is still by far the worst problem with that dvd, surpassing any grievances with the image. It's truly repulsive.)
I'm not a video expert, so I don't know how much more I can add, but this concept is rather exciting. ;)
I really think you're on to something here, zombie84. Last night I flipped through the GOUT dvd approximately recreating your settings on my tv (didn't use VLC because I was tired of looking at the computer screen, lol). Jacked up the saturation around 10 notches and shifted away from red around 5, and it became similar to what you posted, except that I didn't go as far because the lobster skin tones were getting really ugly in places. But it was rather startling and exciting to see the dull GOUT image start to resemble a crude version of those Technicolor screenshots. Very, very interesting.
I've always hated the look of the 2004 transfer, but it's interesting to know that the blue Death Star isn't quite as wrong as it instinctively seems. One of the problems is that the colour is often wildly inconsistent, far exceeding any variation seen in the original version . . . and now, I think I understand why that is. I'd have to go back and look at the '04 again to be sure, but as I recall the Death Star colouring is pretty much the exact same hue in every shot. It's entirely possible, even probable, that one of their aims in its timing was to get the overall look of the set to be the same everywhere--but in so doing, all the rest of the colours shift by different amounts along with it, which is why is changes so much according to the camera angle. Of course, this doesn't come close to explaining a lot of the other image problems, but I think it's a significant part of the problem. Too much digital manipulation overcompensating for perceived 'flaws' in the cinematography that were never really problems to begin with.
I think a good way to go might be to try to recreate the original colours from the GOUT as a reference, and then once that's settled upon, correct the '04 footage to resemble it as closely as possible, so that the higher resolution image can be used for most of the movie. More work, but in the end it might be worth it . . .
Crud, I forgot to mention that part. I didn't know how many people were actually interested in it anyway . . . Damn, this is getting complicated. lol
Okay, I'll have to send another PM about it. He's usually pretty quick with this stuff as long as he's not too busy.
I just sent a PM to Satanika asking him to upmix another RotJ 5.1, this time with the unaltered 1993 mix, so provided he is able to help with that, you shouldn't have to make that edit for the ntsc version--it'll be a fresh ac3 encode from a lossless source.
I was finally able to get this all downloaded. The Mac jdownloader program liked to crash, so I had to get each piece individually, but it now resides on my new Firewire hard drive. :)
Haven't yet had time to actually watch the movie, but I flipped through it last night on the computer to get a general idea. On the whole, it's pretty fantastic. The picture is clean and detailed and the colour for the most part seems very close to the original. Seeing such a good image without the hideous blue cast is rather wonderful, and most of the original shots that were put back in blend well with the rest of the movie--they are at times noticeably softer but not horribly so, and I'm very impressed that it came together so well.
It does seem to me that the removal of the blue cast was actually too aggressive at times--shots that should legimately have blue in them are now sometimes a flat sort of grey (such as the appearance of the Executor, as evidenced by 70mm film scans). The sabres in the cave scene didn't seem to have been corrected, because they still look washed out and dull as they do in the 2004 version, but they did look rather better elsewhere. As Moth3r pointed out, crushed blacks and skin tones were sometimes problematic, and there's a sort of slight 'fake digital' look to it sometimes, but that's just a limitation of the source material.
I've only listened on my headphones so far, not the full 5.1, but mostly the sound seemed pretty good. The majority of it is the '97 SE mix, so there are various dialogue differences from the familiar 35mm version (how many of them appeared in the 70mm is anyone's guess). Some parts of the movie use the 1993 mix, but this was not always done consistently: most--but not all--of the music edits, and a few of the lines, in addition to the obvious places where the edit differs from the SE. Occasionally the transitions between the sources weren't always seamless and had audible jump cuts, though admittedly this was rare.
What I can't figure out is why adywan decided to use the surround channels from the 2004 mix combined with the front channels from the 1997 version. I won't fully know what that sounds like until I've had a chance to play it in 5.1, but while usually they are similar, occasionally this results in a bizarre effect when they don't match up. Most clearly this can be found when Luke observes the probe droid meteor landing on Hoth: the dvd version added a rolling echo that moves from front to back to bolster the impact, but in this mix only the rear half of the sound is heard (in all pre-2004 versions, this was not there at all).
Most of these things come down to individual preference and nitpicking, though. He has done an incredible job with this, and I'm very grateful to him for making this version. Here's hoping to see a theatrical version of Star Wars from him sometime in the future. ;)
What still remains to be done with the audio? Did you decide to make ESB and RotJ 5.1 tracks without the music edits, or are you still synching the theatrical stereo mixes?
If you're really dead set against having those music edits I can talk to Satanika and ask him to help out with that like before . . .
I absolutely despise the look of the 2004 sabres in the slo-mo cave fight for ESB. They are extremely dull and washed out, almost no colour in the blades at all. Compare this to the original, which is bright and colourful. The new version is truly dreadful once you see what it's actually supposed to look like.
(I was hoping adywan's theatrical ESB would correct this, but it seems he did not do so. Blast . . .)
I usually refrain from knowing too much about how special effects were done, because I don't want to spoil the illusion for myself, but I have to admit it is very impressive to think how much they were able to accomplish with what was available. While it's true that the effects of Star Wars do have some flaws, on the whole they're so damn good I still feel they have yet to be matched in many ways. It's truly incomprehensible to me that Lucas can only ever see them with disappointment and believe them not to be good enough. It seems he can't distance himself enough from the making of the film to be able to see the merit of what's actually there, instead of what isn't.
Dykstra was right about there being a wave of 'b' science fiction movies after Star Wars. Most of them don't even come close to matching it in terms of visual brilliance or artistic value, and the effects nearly always look utterly fake in comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqiUGjghlzU
Go to around 1:10 and you'll see what I'm referring to, and how it might relate to the various Frinks notated above . . .
One time I used a magnifying glass and a mirror to convert my butt to 3D . . . then put it on VHS Bluray upscaled to 2160p. It's only available as a rare limited edition gold-plated release, though, so you'll have to look on ebay and see if there's any left going for less than a thousand or so.
It was a special project for TV's Frink, as a reward for helpfully pointing out to me that gullible was written on the ceiling. Looks like he's more interested in this than all my hard work, though . . .
I watched Home Alone on December 24. Given that I used to design burglar traps for my house when I was kid because of it, the fact that I like the movie shouldn't come as a surprise. lol
The film's music is rather good also. I always felt it gave the story a lot of extra depth, although for some reason I didn't realise until relatively recently that it was actually John Williams who composed it.
"Keep the change, you filthy animal!"
*iz outgrabe'd by mome raths*
damn them slithy toves, anyway.
As I recall, the precise delay values for Belbucus' audio tracks were 1.017s for Star Wars, 0.948s for Empire, and 1.015s for Jedi. This refers to the pcm tracks running at correct speed, and provided a complete synch with the ntsc gout audio. To synch with the pal version, you'd probably want to add the proper amount of silence at the beginning of the track first, and then speed it up after that.
Assuming of course, as Darth Mallwalker points out, that the frame count and timing of this version is identical to the gout.
Now, about the 5.1 audio. I made the edited version mainly for my own use because I like the way it sounds, but clearly an unaltered version would be ideal for projects such as this. I'd have provided one already if I could, but my editing has always been done in stereo and then sent to Satanika for processing, since upmixers do not seem to work on my computer. Accordingly, I've only ever had the final mixes as AC3 files, not the multichannel wavs, so unfortunately it's not a simple matter of editing the changes out again. You could conceivably decode the AC3 to its component channels, put the unchanged sound back in, and then re-encode, but I don't recommend that at all because it will further degrade the sound quality by being twice lossy. Really the only way to do it would be to make a new upmix of the unchanged RotJ 1993 mix and add in my LFE channel, then make a new 5.1 AC3 that way. (The LFE is critical to it being 5.1, otherwise there's no difference from simply using Prologic II in the receiver on the stereo track.)
I reckon I'll have to see if Satanika would be able to lend his services again. dark_jedi also expressed interest in having a non-edited version for his v3 gout project, so clearly there is some demand for it . . .
It kills me when people say that fixing the lightsabers is one of the things they like about the 2004 version. To me the original blades were nearly perfect, with only a few minor technical glitches popping up occasionally. The '04 blades look stupid and weird, they're clearly completely re-done in some shots, and don't have the same feel or effect to them at all.
In addition to the blades being altered visually, the sound effects during the duel are also completely screwed up. When Ben activates his saber, the low end of the ignition sound is cranked up beyond reason, and there's a huge amount of extra hissing and junk noise added in every time they clash, which sounds completely wrong. It's ridiculous.
I swear, that Matthew Wood guy who did the 2004 mix must be a tone-deaf buffoon to think any of that is even remotely acceptable. Either that, or he gets off on destroying original sound design and "improving" it beyond recognition. But then, he is responsible for the repulsive voice of General Grievous in RotS, so I suppose the level of bad aural taste is no surprise.