guitarfan01

This is mildly off the topic of Bobago Fett, that is, it has nothing to do with it (If we're taking votes, I'm definately on the side of it being Boba in both AotC and ESB, I think it adds to the character, and I love the mockups ben_danger has put together), but on the subject of Order 66, is it possible to have the Jedi Purge initiated by Palpatine behind Anakin's back?  Leave off all the "we must now kill all the Jedi" drivel; I never thought it was well-reasoned, and even in Anakin's very suggestible state at the time, I don't believe that he would just rush off to kill younglings.  If Sidious initiates it behind his back, he can then say to Anakin later that he had evidence that the Jedi as a group were dangerous or whatever, blah, blah, blah.  The way Anakin just agrees to execute them all without even a flinch doesn't match the character in the rest of the prequels.  I would, however, believe that he would rush off to Mustafar to execute the Separatist leaders on Palpatine's say-so.  There's also so much extraneous dialogue in that sequence, I would suggest removing as much of Palpy's figurative mustache twirling as possible.

Even the storming of the temple might work as part of the basic order 66 montage if we leave off the scene of Anakin killing the kids (say, if we could get Palpatine to say something like "Go to the temple.  Then go to Mustafar and wipe out the Separatist leaders" (a paraphrase).  Anakin and the 501st might even be able to take the temple without much blood: after all, Anakin is a member of the Jedi Council and a legally-recognized advisor to the Chancellor.  The slaughter could begin after he leaves, and he could ostensibly be there just to revoke their "badges" or military commissions or something.  I don't know.  I'm mostly just brainstorming right now.  I will see if I can work on a script or slap a basic proof-of-concept edit on it.

If all of this didn't hinge on the logical leap of "the Jedi Council didn't tell me about their plans to confront Palpatine, and Mace tried to make the same choice about Sidious as I did about Dooku, so obviously now I need to slaughter every last child in the Jedi Temple" I wouldn't have a problem with it, but as it is, I can't take it at all.

Who is it that did the voice for the Holiday Special Fett?

Of the two, I like the music in SSWR's better.  The problem with using OT music in the PT is that all the really good OT music automatically makes one think of the scene from the OT.

Critics nowadays don't think Blade Runner is horrible.  Ebert gave The Final Cut a good review when it came out.

SSWR, I really like that cut, it makes it seem a lot more frantic and there's tension in the scene for probably the first time I've ever seen it.

In addition to what was mentioned earlier, when Anakin releases Padme through the force, his lightsaber is on.  I know that's because you repurposed a shot from earlier in the sequence, but that does need to be fixed, if possible.

Otherwise, a really good job.  Though it makes me feel like I'm flying the Millennium Falcon in X-Wing Alliance. :p  Is there any way you could get some good JW music from another source, maybe an Indiana Jones film or Minority Report, or anywhere else he's done action music?  Obviously, it can't be anything super-obvious, but an action cue from Minority Report or something might work.

Excellent!

Hunter6 said:

This New film is just Messy and lazy writing, also film-making.

The Delta Vega problem is one thing most trek-fans are puzzling about.
Delta Vega in this movie is a ice world (moon?) by vulcan in which old spock, Scotty (just happens to be too) and kirk (just happens to be also) thrown on.

The Delta Vega problem is that Delta Vega is NOT an ice-world nor is it be by vulcan.

Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman's Messy and lazy writing is in action here.

The Delta Vega problem is an major error by Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman.
They used the wrong name for the ice-moon by vulcan.

Even in the new timeline of this film, Star Trek: Enterprise is still canon (hell even scotty talks about Archer in the new film) because the alternating of the timeline is 100 years after the event of Star Trek: Enterprise.

The ice-moon by Vulcan is Andoria and NOT Delta Vega.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorian

See Messy and lazy writing.

Man, Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman are dumb-a@@**

Ridiculous.  Andorians are from a different system entirely.  Just because it's cited as being "near vulcan" and an ice planet does not make it Andoria.  The Andorian and Vulcan homeworlds are light-years apart, and one could never see the destruction of Vulcan from the surface of Andoria, not even with a Vulcan naked eye.

I agree that the ice moon (and it being Delta Vega, last seen in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", though it is obvious from the film itself that "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is not considered in-continuity (that is, Prime continuity) by the writers of the film) was an asspull, but at least it was fun.  Would have been a lot better if Spock was on the surface of T'Khut, Vulcan's "twin." (see http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/T'Khut )  But I just accepted it as a previously-unmentioned frozen body in the Vulcan (40 Eridani) system, just far enough outside Vulcan's orbit (or perhaps tidally locked and always enough in Vulcan's shadow) to have such a difference in climate.  Still, in a triple star system like 40 Eri, it doesn't seem likely that so close to an oppressively hot, arid planet would be a frozen one (and who knows if the whole thing is frozen anyway, or if Kirk just landed on some sort of ice cap -- I don't recall what the establishing shot of the planet looked like).

"'Vulcan has no moon,' various Vulcans have been heard to remark: accurate as always, when speaking scientifically. 'Damn right it doesn't,' at least one Terran has responded: 'It has a nightmare.'" (Spock's World by Diane Duane)

From how it was written, and the allusions to a several of the better Star Trek novels, I think I'm pretty safe in saying that Kurtzman and Orci are Trekkies like us.  I highly enjoyed the film, even with all the time-tampering and subsequent invalidation of every series.  All of that happened; if it hadn't, Ambassador Spock wouldn't remember it, or he would have ceased to exist as soon as he arrived in the past.  Every legend has to have an end: in Christianity, you have the Apocalypse and New Creation, and the binding of Satan; in Norse mythology, there's Ragnarok, the death of the Gods, and the Frost Giants triumphing; in Greek mythology, Zeus would be overthrown and the world cast into darkness; etc.  For Batman, it's The Dark Knight Returns, and for Superman, Kingdom Come.  In Trek, the end of the future is technological, and mired in time travel, quite fitting to a science-fiction universe, and not only this, but the rebirth of the franchise into a new universe, a new 'creation' if you will, mirrors the rebirth aspects of a lot of the mythological cycles I listed above.  Not to mention the fantastic possibilities of a new Trek universe, with all the stops pulled out.  Would be kinda neat if they toss off references to things that wouldn't have been changed by Nero's mucking about in the future (v'ger, the whale probe) -- of course, that's twenty (filmic) years down the pipe, but it would be cool to find out that for some reason, it's a completely different crew that saves earth in those incidents, while Kirk and co are on watch at the neutral zone or something.

One thing that did bother me was how fast they promoted Kirk to captain following his graduation from the Academy.

Bingowings said:

Star Wars doesn't end with ROTJ we just don't see what happens next (it's our departure point).

There is plenty of evidence that "And they all lived happily ever after" is not end of this tale just yet.

Bingowings, do you mean the sfx exterior shots?

Well, killing the Emperor and Vader wouldn't free the galaxy anyway.  There are still Moffs, Admirals, and warlords aplenty, with thousands of Star Destroyers to sink, burn, or take as prizes.  Even if we're discarding the EU here, there's years ahead of the Rebellion to rebuild the Republic; even the Senate itself has been disbanded for four years, with military governors having power at least that long (and even longer, if the deleted scenes from ROTS are to be considered).  Do we really think that they would all just give up their power because Vader and the Emperor blew up on a Death Star that was really more the Emperor's bid for personal power than a real military machine at all?  I don't.

BarBar Jinkx said:

Darth Piccolo said:

here is an idea for ep III in the scene of the clones storming the jedi temple, remove anakin from it so instad palpatine sends anakin immediately to mustafa to kill the seperatist

didn't ben say 

"Vader hunted down & Killed the Jedi"

in ANH?

Well, yes, but there's no reason that couldn't have been after Order 66 and the formation of the Empire.  We see several Jedi killed, and the Temple is ransacked, but odds are some would have survived.  Yoda and Obiwan send out the signal telling surviving Jedi to go to ground and hide, after all (or was that just in the deleted scene?  I can't remember).  Either way, we can't just assume that none of that happened between Episodes III and IV.

ben_danger said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

It's funny because the other day I was playing with the Yoda escape scene and I cut the Yoda line completely. This, again, is another lets-spell-it-out-for-the-audience piece of dialouge. We *know* he failed. And why tell us he must go into exile when it would be much more interesting for us as the audience to wonder where he is up until ESB.

So are you suggesting that when Obiwan meets up with Yoda and Bail the *first* time in ROTS that it *not* be somewhere in space but actually be on dagobah? Because THAT could work...

So it could be like:

Obi: my clones turned on me...

Bail: we're sending you our coordinates...

-wipe to dagobah with Obiwan landing and continue with scene on board the tantive

-continue movie as is until we leave mustafar

-no asteroid planet thingy. instead yoda and bail are back at dagobah hiding and waiting for obiwan

Bail: we'll take her to the medical station...

-medical station is now on board the tantive...which is on dagobah

Hmm?

 

that sounds much better, perhaps a throw away line could be made from yoda, though im not sure if it is necessary, just like 'this place is hidden from the force' or something as such to explain why they are there. the claustrophobic atmosphere of the planet should be enough to show that they are hiding. i can't stop thinking about mattes of having headlights illuminating the scarily dark planet.

i definitely agree on having yoda not mention the exile buisness. having obi wan, bail (and padme, corpse or uncorpse) going their seperate ways, will hopefully force a 'loose end' that will get tied up in ESB. it makes yodas insane chatter seem so much more dark now, thinking he has just been losing it in lonliness for 20 years!

how hard would it be i wonder to remove padme from the table? it would be cool to have her give birth outside, though a logical reason would be hard to grasp. i really like the idea of 'it is too dangerous to deliver the babies in space' dialogue.

 

cant wait to see the next installment of SSWR. for the record i still cant stop thinking of the bugs life clip, my girlfriend keeps on chanting it whenever it appears in the films!:P

I vote against the "it is too dangerous to have the babies in space" line: it's ridiculous (a society so advanced but they can't afford to have a baby in space? come on), it's exposition instead of just doing it, and it would obviously be there just to make sure they land on Dagobah just to tie it in with the OT.  Like too many things in the PT already.  I love the landing/meeting on Dagobah idea, and really really like the way SSWR mentioned it, with Dagobah kind of existing as a "Force-cloaked" hideaway for them after Order 66 and everything goes to crap.

Davnes, that's a good mockup for translating the same basic beats as the original film to Dagobah.  However, if we/you are radically reduxing (ha) the Prequels, then is it an intention to try to preserve the revelations of the OT (Vader is Luke's father and Leia = sister) as much a surprise as possible?  That's always been on my wishlist for every prequel fanedit, that it would create a version that I could watch with my (hypothetical) kids who had never seen Star Wars before, in numerical order, and they would feel as gutpunched as I did when I first heard "No, Luke, I am your father."  

It would be epic if we could keep the Vader name from ever being applied (onscreen) to Anakin, and made it look like Vader was actually another Jedi Palpatine had turned either in the years between Ep.III and IV, or even before he took Anakin as an apprentice, with Anakin just another puppet to destabilize the galaxy or somesuch.  I know I'm grasping at straws here, just kind of spitballing ideas, seeing what sticks to the wall, you know, but the point is to set up the end of ROTS in some fashion that indicates that Vader is not Anakin, and that Anakin did indeed die on Mustafar as Obi-Wan expected him too.  He probably wouldn't have even made the connection himself until facing Vader later (whether during the in between period or at the final confrontation on the Death Star).  The EU (and I'm not sure how much this radical redux would draw from it) has definately established that there were plenty of Dark Jedi helping out the Emperor, even beyond the "only two Sith" rule.  

Also, the last ten minutes of ROTS, with it's frantic scramble to tie up as many loose ends as lamely and obviously as possible (not to mention furthering GL's landing platform fetish) absolutely grates on my nerves all the time now.  Just leave some ends loose, George!  We love to speculate!

I have to admit, I kind of like the strange noises things make in the PT.

Though I do agree that it gets to be a bit much when every ship seems to use buzz bomb tech (going by their sound).

Is there a way to put Jabba in the background, with the Geonosian still signaling the start (as it is his planet, after all).

It definately seems to have discontinuity in lighting (and the type of rock) from one half of the image to the other.

ben_danger said:

thanks for the fcp pointer octorox. i just got hold of a copy of after effects, so had a go at masking a closer shape to jabba http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwVB-zpcxjk&feature=channel_page . for some reason it wont upload to HQ so its looks terrible. there is full colour correction on this version, but some bits do seem too dark because of the upload. next question though for an after effects whizz, is there a way to make a mask, and then set it to change shape? eg make a square blob for the beginning of a 5 second shot, and have it slowly morph into a circle blob at the end? could make jabbas arm movements and him shuffling towards the camera work better.

I do like the concept, but I think I like Monroeville's idea of having the crowd noise go silent when jabba hits the gong, with the first alien only coming out to the sound of it's footsteps (kind of like a hushed silence to see what it will do; this seems like a good way to add still more tension to the scene), and music and crowd noise coming back after it screams.

Freaking gorgeous, Angel.

oh wow.  a pine-needle-smelling lightsaber.

That would be AWESOME.

C3PX, if you post in the thread for whatever ones you want to download, it'll unhide.  I thought that would be a pain too, but it's not actually that much trouble.

I'm glad I got to do something helpful around here for once. :)

Darknikos, I'm going through TLC now, and there seems to be quite a few mentions of ysalimiri in there.

On the subject of extra Wedge lines (for the BoE), it should be remembered that Denis Lawson (Wedge) did the abridged audiobook for Heir to the Empire, so it might be possible to crib some lines from there.

Ta-da!

JasonN said:

bigbaddaddyvader said:

Loved the twilight edit Jason.Torrents for the other two would be hugely appreciated!

 

I believe guitarfan01 was going to be uploading the edits to Demonoid.

I am.  Sorry it's taking so long, guys.  I've been a little out of my mind with school and tax stuff.  I'll try to get them started tonight when I get home; tomorrow at latest.

Darknikos, I believe in page 79 of HTTE, the name of Karrde's Vornskyr should be Sturm, not Strum.  Sturm and Drang is one of Zahn's many references to Earth culture, as it was a movement in German art and literature in the late 1700s.  

Also, I believe that the scene where Luke takes his lightsaber back worked better without the one-panel saber crossing.  Your edit makes their confrontation less psychological and more physical, and while it might have worked if you had more material of the two of them dueling to work with, it just feels kind of silly as it is to me.  Just my opinion, of course.

You did make the first story work without the ysalimiri, and though I liked them for the implications they have in the third book in conjunction with cloning, I like HTTE without them as well.