gobalicious

Really great work as always.  Variations on classic John Williams themes are always appreciated  whenever they can be inserted.  My only suggestion is that you try to quickly end Leia's theme when you move to Obi-Wan carrying Luke on Tatooine.  It's about Luke now, not Leia.  The transition into the binary sunset theme is pretty rushed.

What do you think of the possibility of a fan PT being made?

Given the amount of talent displayed in the fanedit section (e.g. TheCutter's audio and original score, Adywan and Bobgarcia's visual effects), I'll contend that there is enough talent in fandom to create a truly great PT.  The problems, as always, are funding and agreeing on what should be done. 

However, if a quality script emerged here, maybe it's not all that implausible it could be made.  It's really a shame that so few people put in the effort to read some of the PT scripts posted here.   (Perhaps more writers than readers?)

There are plenty of people unsatisfied with the current PT.  The big following on Adywan's Revisited project leads me to suspect it may not be as difficult to support as one might expect.  What say you? What would be the biggest hurdles?

rpvee said:

I suggest you guys check out the scene as written in Matthew Stover's novelization.  It's a masterpiece of writing (really, the whole novel is extraordinary).

I agree.  The novel is a must-read for any potential faneditor of ROTS.  In particular, conversations between Anakin and Palpatine are brilliantly done.

I also like the end of the Obi-Wan/Anakin duel in the novel.  There is no "I have the high ground" nonsense.  Obi-Wan jumps to the edge of a cliff next to the lava river, and Anakin immediately follows and gets sliced.  Anakin tries to hold on but slips down to the bank of the lava river.  Obi-Wan then notices Palpatine's shuttle approaching.  He leaves knowing he probably won't have time to go down and put him out of his misery.  He needs to save Padme before Palpatine gets there.  It makes his decision to leave so much more reasonable.

Perhaps with proper editing it could be possible to get a shot of Palpatine's shuttle arriving before Obi-Wan leaves.

The John Williams score.  It's about the only thing I can hold on an equal level with the OT. 

Premise of Palpatine's rise to power. 

Coruscant and the senate building.

Opening scene of ROTS.  I would have liked it even more if it incorporated practical effects.

Naboo.  Beautiful planet and city.

Montage at the end of ROTS.

Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman, and Liam Neeson were good choices for their roles.

I grew up with the VHS of the OT and TPM.  For some reason, when I was done with the OT, I didn't want to pop in TPM and I just started the OT again.  I never hated TPM but I realized there was something unlikeable about it, though I never thought deeply enough to find out what that was.  I saw AOTC and ROTS in theaters and though I remained excited throughout the films, many awkward/wtf moments kept me from enjoying the films completely.  Rewatching the prequels over the years, I just kept finding more and more I didn't like and didn't make sense.  There was no well defined moment where I thought "These movies suck."  Then coming across the Phantom Edit I was drawn into the larger world of this segment of Star Wars fandom.  Still, I don't hate the prequels.  They have some redeeming qualities and some fanedits can make them enjoyable again.

Mithrandir said:

I like it that you made the dialogue more extensive. It certainly adds to the feeling. Though putting it so at the beginning doesn't feel very star warsy.

I'd put it after we see the jedi fighters, when they're doing all those acrobacies, just to boost the feeling of them feeling comfortable in a war scenario, that they are in a good mood.

I agree with this.  Maybe start the dialogue right when we first see the star fighters so we know where it's coming from.  Hopefully you could time it so Obi-Wan says "May the force be with you" right before they make the downwards turn into the battle.

I think this is great.

As unlikely as it is, I'm still holding out hope that Liam Neeson filmed scenes for the blu ray.  Take any chance you can to get his guidance to Yoda. 

And LOL, Tarkin got so owned by Vader for a change.  I think Vader's lines are a bit too loud compared to the Emperor.  Maybe you could insert the obligatory "master" after "Obi Wan will die."  Great work as always.

I like it and it's very well-done.  However, I think a darker and more subtle version of Imperial march would serve the scene better.  There's too much flare.  I think I liked it better when you had the Emperor's arrival theme.  Regardless, good job and it's more than I could ever hope to do.

A little color correction to match the sunset colors, a longer establishing shot of the balcony, and this could work brilliantly.  Perhaps the background behind Padme could be made more futuristic looking as well.  I like the music as is, though I'm sure you could do a nice mix that might suit it better.  I wonder how you'll deal with the scene where Bail says he'll take Leia? 

If you are doing away with dying in childbirth, maybe it might be possible to change Anakin's dream so that he just sees her death and not how it happens.  That way it is still a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you are doing away with his vision then you just have to cut it so Anakin says "You died." instead of "You died in childbirth."

This completely turned this scene from facepalm to epic.  Congratulations!

I like that Vader refers to Padme as "it."  It makes him seem cold and it's clear he has severed all of his emotional connections for good.

This scene really shows the power of the dark side over an individual.  Vader has just renounced the very thing that pushed him to the dark side in the first place.  Any trace of humanity is dead.  It's all about power now.  Even though Kenobi just defeated him, his faith in the dark side has grown.  Vader doesn't seem redeemable now.  And it's so much more in line with how he acts towards Luke in ESB.

In fact Vader seems so evil that Palpatine comes off as the good guy in this scene, informing a man of his dead wife without waiting to be asked.  I like the open mouth expression Palpatine has.  It's like even he doesn't believe how far Vader has fallen.  The evil laugh at the end now makes more sense.  He is pleased with his unexpected success.

Now if only the ending of the duel could be fixed... 

It's fun to be pretend serious!  It's what fiction is about...

zombie84 said:

The line about Chewie isn't racist in any way. She just made a snide comment based on his appearance. If he had glasses and she said, "would someone get four eyes here out of my way," that wouldn't necessarily make her prejudiced against people with glasses. If wookies were short and she said, "would someone get this shrimp out of my way," it wouldn't make her prejudiced against little people either. It's just a sassy remark and it fits her character very well.

You could use the exact same argument to justify racial slurs.

It is unfortunate that today's society cannot tolerate any snide comments based on heritage or the color of skin, but evidently some consider it a sign of underlying discrimination against people with these characteristics, which is the true wrong in it.

To be technical, the comment isn't racist but rather speciesist.  I don't know if Leia's comment was a sign of some underlying discrimination against Wookiees or not. Only at the end of ESB does she seem to treat Chewbacca with much respect.  From watching the movies, we know Chewbacca is a senient being with as much intelligence as a human, so it's curious why Leia persists with the jabs at Wookiees.

To be fair, she doesn't seem to treat any of the main characters with much respect so I find it unlikely it's of any speciesist underpinning.  It's an aspect of her character.  It's a defense mechanism she's formed to keep away those who would take advantage of her.  And she was quite angry at the time the comments were made.

Of course, it's silly to say the comments don't belong in the movies.  It's nice to have these character aspects to think about.  I also think it's silly to keep racial comments out of adult movies.  We've all had these thoughts and we might as well acknowledge it and realize it doesn't indicate any fundamental discrimination.

It's May 1980 and the Empire Strikes Back is doing wonderfully in theaters. 

In a stunning move, George Lucas announces he is leaving film for good.  However, not wanting to disappoint his fans with the many loose ends in ESB, he commissions you to finish the Star Wars trilogy.

How would you do it?

Some issues to think about:

What will happen to Han Solo? 

Who is the other that Yoda speaks of and how does this person enter the story?

Will Luke and Leia be siblings?

Is the love triangle at the beginning of ESB really resolved?  Does Luke still have a shot?

Is Vader really Luke's father?

Will any major characters die?

How does Luke confront Vader and the Emperor?

When does Luke go to complete his Jedi training?

Is there another Death Star under construction?

If Leia is Luke's sister, does she play any role in confronting Vader and the Emperor?

What new characters would you introduce?

EDIT: More things to ponder

Where does the final confrontation happen?

To Ewok or not to Ewok?

Will Vader survive the film?

Will Vader be redeemed?

Should Luke fight the Emperor?

Who is Luke's mother?

How will Luke confirm that Vader is his father?

How will Obi-Wan explain Anakin's turn to the dark-side and his lie to Luke, if at all?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2011/05/02/luddites-rejoice-new-glasses-let-you-watch-3d-films-in-2d/

Glasses to let you watch 3D movies in 2D.  I wonder how well they work.

Having virtually no memory of seeing the OT in theaters, I may try this.

Does anyone know a quick way of applying a "comic book" effect to an image?  I have a project in mind that might require hundreds of these images.  All the tutorials I've seen require substantial customization for each picture and I don't think I have the patience for that.

Also in the novel, Obi-Wan is at the edge of a shallow cliff when he slices Anakin, who then falls down to the bank after losing grip with his mechanical hand.  Not sure why George didn't do this.  Makes a whole lot more sense.

btw, the novel is pretty good; I'd recommend it to any fan editors out there.  Anakin's fall is so much more believable, with a lot of new insights and dialogue added.  Some of the bad lines remain, but it's forgivable this time.

Many complain about why Obi-Wan left Anakin to burn to death, instead of trying to do a mercy kill or save him.

I was reading the ROTS novel, and one of the reasons why Obi-Wan left is that he saw Palpatine's shuttle approaching.

Would it be possible to insert a shot of the shuttle approaching?  Perhaps insert it just before the jump to the side of the hill when Anakin says "This is the end for you my master."  Maybe even have shots of clone troopers approaching too.

nvm

Starting at Jabba's palace is a bad idea I think.  Hearing Lapti Nek first is a big shock.  It feels so out of place without seeing it's being produced by a band in Jabba's palace.  As said before, the focus of the film is Luke's confrontation with Vader and the Rebellion facing the threat of a new Death Star.  Han's rescue from Jabba's palace is more of a side story to demonstrate Luke's skills as a Jedi are complete.  It's better to keep the intro as is, then move to Dagobah.

oracle said:

is troopermans version avaliable publicly or just to a select few?

I'd like to know this too.

Obi-Wan is a total badass and Darth Maul doesn't go out like a punk. Strengthens both characters.  Genius!

haljordan28 said:

I have thought about this many times my self.

 

it  can be done though. Look at the godfather for example. micheale starts out hating his fathers ways and  claims he would never become a man like his father.  he starts out innocent and a war hero  and eventully through  circumstances..(the  killing of his brother and fredo being inept)  he sinks into the abyss of his fathers ways    and  by the end of the movie he is even worse than his farther.

 

 

The Godfather is a different type of movie though.  It is entirely character-focused.  Star Wars is more than that.  There is action, adventure, pseudo-religious themes, etc.

"need" was a poor choice of wording.  Obviously including all of these is not strictly necessary (nor the existence of the PT).  This is intended mainly as a list of things I have seen other critics state were improperly explained in the PT, and the difficulty faced in actually explaining them properly in only 3 films.

Ideally, I would like to see all of these events told because they can be told in a good, coherent story.  I'm all in favor of leaving some prior events to the imagination, for example where Yoda and the Emperor came from, as any attempt to explain their back story tends to corrupt their majestic characters.

A lot of what leads to the Clone Wars could be very boring (e.g. taxation of trade routes), which is why I would like to start it basically at the first battle.  I agree the insertion of a love story is not needed at all, but it mirrors the OT very well and I think there is a hint of it when we hear of Leia speaking of her mother in ROTJ.  Nor do I think we need to explicitly see Palpatine's manipulations to gain power.  Hearing his voice blare propaganda would kind of ruin it for me.  It could be handled with much more subtlety.

Agreed. I think the events of RotS could be made into three films and work just fine. Nothing we saw before that really matters and besides that it was all boring.

I have considered that idea myself.  Most of what we expected to happen in the PT was packed too tightly in ROTS, but I think it would be too diluted if spread over 3 films.  We see Anakin as a Jedi doing great things as a pilot in battle.  Frustration with the Jedi and the war leads to dark thoughts.  That's maybe one film.  Then he turns in the next, hunts Jedi, and gets put in the suit.  That's another film.  If you try to stick in a third film you'll end up in territory where you are struggling to decide what to put in it from the above and still be coherent.

Perhaps I want a prequel story that explains too much, but hopefully it leads to a discussion of what should and should not be put in the story.

One of the great things about the OT was the elaborate back story we got through hints across the three films.

I've been going through possible rewrites of the prequel story in my head and the more I do it the more I realize how difficult it is to fit the back story we get in the OT into only three films. 

The events preceding the OT are much more complicated than the story of the OT itself. Consider the events we have to go through:

1) We have to meet Anakin Skywalker, establish him as a good and noble person, follow his path to becoming a Jedi Knight and decline to the dark side.  That's a long path.  In the OT it took 3 whole films to establish Luke as a Jedi.  It might take 2 or three more films to convey Anakin's turn and his role in betraying and destroying the Jedi.

2) We have to follow Palpatine's rise to power.  I don't think we really need to see how he became Chancellor as that involves politics that feels out of place in Star Wars.  Showing this was one of the failings of TPM I think. 

3) A galaxy-wide war must be established.  Furthermore, there must be a good reason this war has to happen.  Yoda's line "Begun the Clone War has." always irked me.  Why did a war begin?  What reason did either side have to engage in battle?  What were the separatists angry about again?  We also have to see the war's destruction on the republic, and how Palpatine used this to bolster his power.

3) Besides all this darkness, there has to be some room for some good old-fashioned light-hearted adventure.  The chase in the asteroid-field, escaping the Death Star, and the speeder chase in the Endor forest are examples of this.

4) The Jedi have to be viewed in their prime as noble, sympathetic characters whose destruction is tragic.  They should be a brotherhood with close bonds, something we never see in the PT.

5) I'm not sure this is completely necessary, but there needs to be a love story between Anakin and Padme.  It's difficult to believe they could meet, fall in love, conceive a child all while Anakin is falling to the dark side.  There needs to be some more separation in time between these events.

6) I was very disappointed to never see Vader actually hunt down any Jedi.  We never saw Vader in his natural element.

7) There need to be more interesting characters besides Anakin/Vader, Obi-Wan, and Padme, each with compelling storylines.  What would Star Wars be without Han Solo or Lando, both of whose character arcs have little to do with the overall Skywalker focus of the Saga?  Another failure of the PT was its over-emphasis on Anakin.  We never followed another's character arc.

8) There was never really any interesting backstory to the prequels besides maybe Palpatine's mention of Darth Plagueis.  I would have loved to hear something about Yoda's past, perhaps how he was involved in the war that last destroyed the Sith, or perhaps how he and Sidious were once old adversaries.

9) I also would have liked to see the seeds of the rebellion.  A really cool concept I think is that the separatists could have actually been the good guys trying to free themselves from the corruption that engulfed the Republic.  The war could have split the Jedi.  Palpatine would then have a good reason to hunt down the Jedi to present to the public.

The complexity of the story and its forced insertion into only 3 films is one of the reasons I think the prequels failed.  Even had Lucas put more effort into making more consistent plot lines, better dialogue, and more sympathetic characters, this difficulty might have been too much to overcome.  In sum, the story is just too broad and expansive.

Seeing the success of the original Clone Wars cartoon as well as some the great HBO series like Band of Brothers, Rome, etc. lead me to think that prequel story would probably be the best conveyed in a TV series, perhaps in a 20 episode span over 2 seasons.  With limited funding in TV, I'm sure the use of CGI and special effects would be de-emphasized for a much stronger character approach.  The nature of the story also lends itself well to comic form.  Both of these forms of media bode well for fan-made prequel remakes in the future, and hopefully someone will professionally take them up to give us the prequel story we deserve.

Erikstormtrooper said:

The Chewie clip is excellent.

The final clip is improved by the new music. But some might find it too recognizable. And the musical transition right before the credits feels a little off.

I still don't feel like we need to see Naboo though.

I greatly enjoyed the rescored ending.  It's a much more reverent end to the saga.

The final transition to the credits is a bit off in pitch, not sure what can be done about it though.