frank678

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Spaced Ranger said:

Haven't watched it; my bandwidth is the proverbial "98-pound weakling". :) My reply was strictly according to TServo2049's description of the anomaly (which is likely considering the "old VHS bootleg" context). I would say that the correction is desirable and workable (I've manually tested this in the previously mentioned RJSR circumstance). Also, the correction should be automatable in, for example, Avisynth, as such an anomaly would have been machine generated.

 

I posted static shots which show the effect:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/NEW-possibly-2nd-Generation-77-78-Bootleg/post/584163/#TopicPost584163

But I can't do much else at the moment due to access could some one post 5+ sequential frames from one of these scenes so Spaced Ranger can determine if it is improvable or no 

AntcuFaalb said:

Question: Does anyone have any idea as to why the big ugly lefthand-side curve changes in size and shape throughout the entire film?

Question: What is the correct size? Someone mentioned in an earlier post that all I need to do is double the width. Is this correct? If so, please explain further, as I'd like to know!

q1. nope. not sure what it is either. My guesses were an unstable piece in the projector masking part of the film or a crack or warp in the 1978 vcr or master cassette?

q2 I would refer to TServo2049's post

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/NEW-possibly-2nd-Generation-77-78-Bootleg/post/583437/#TopicPost583437

When I used the force aspect ratio 266:100 in vlc it looks pretty spot on, unfortunately at the moment I have very limited internet access so I can't access much at the moment. There are aspect ratio calculators online and you can count pixels and stuff. To me one way to be really really sure you are spot on MIGHT be to find an accurate reference (e.g. blu ray frame) with a square/rectangular shape within it (since you can't use the outer edges of the PS78) then resize the matching ps78 frame so it overlays perfectly via that square/rectangle then go back and find what you multiplied the original height and width to make it fit and apply that across the whole thing

Spaced Ranger said:

Fortunately, only less-than-half of the previous field became superimposed on the next! This means that corresponding, uncontaminated halves of the same-frame fields can be joined to reconstruct clean fields for full-frame reassembly back to 24fps.

If you have seen this bootleg can you say whether that process would be possible/desirable with this capture as is? 

Looking forward to the results!

AntcuFaalb said:

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but my coworker just told me that he might have a TESB bootleg.

 damn it you've got me imagining all the possible inflections with which your coworker spoke the word might (!)

I was curious if you had had chance to try using the colormatch thingy for a whole scene from just one still yet? That way you could mix and match sources or even use one of the 70mm scans frames/screening photos/ production stills/other source etc etc.

Also whether you've compared your 1992 FS set with a 1982 vhs preservation, they are understood to be all from the same master between those years but it might be possible one version has a slight edge. Maybe once you've captured your vhs releases you could experiment with them via colormatch?  

It's really cool that this tape ended up in your hands and youre motivated to get the most out of it you can. Fans wanting to go back and get a taste of the original feel and look of star wars are going to be really grateful this was preserved :O)    

Can any one fill me in on what AGC pumping is?

This is trying out the idea of taking a snapshot of a still in vlc, then changing the settings and taking a second snapshot, then merging the two together. The idea behind it is to increase the range/depth of a single image by adding additional information to it. Using the 82 LD which does not have a lot of image depth it does seem to work to a degree, the only problem was it added too much darkness where I just was aiming for just adding depth. I wonder has anyone here ever tried merging moving images (i.e. clips/or the whole films) with slightly different settings (i am unable to try this out).  

original 82 ld:

settings changed:

the above two merged:

The following stills are the end results only (all using the same settings - i.e. this is meant to be a one step/automated process which either improves on the original in one 'fix' or not.

AntcuFaalb said:

Should I grab a new copy of the 1990 P/S release as well? Any interest?

 If you can get it at a reasonable price why not, since you're in the process of putting together a quality set-up seems a shame to limit it to one or two tapes.   

And even if say someone else had done a tape from a release run doesnt mean you might not make an improved transfer on your copy/set-up

AntcuFaalb said:

I'm sorry for the silence; busy weekend. Anyway, here's an update: I've purchased a Leitch DPS-290 TBC/Synchronizer for $41.00+S&H! It should arrive soon.

don't apologize for taking time and spending money to get an improved capture!

Asaki said:

Well as we discussed elsewhere, the 35mm version has a lot of white clipping that may or may not have been intentional.

god damnit i keep finding out stuff that adds another layer of complexity to all this stuff.

look at this deleted scene in the first half of the sky turns white, they turn a corner and its blue again??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsDE7o_o26E

here is a tweaked still from pre-anh bootleg:

Although this has probably the most original information packed into it of all versions - thats what it feels like to me: that it's too packed in. The packed-in-ness is making it feel to dark and heavy. Why I prefer the PS78 is there seems to be more space and air in the mid range so it feels more lifelike

edit: i wonder if this packed in-ness combined with deliberate blown out whites is what makes some things look so wierd when its transfered 'down'= why the flesh tones burn so much - this is especially wierd on catnap bootleg

2nd edit: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcdkap_the-making-of-star-wars-1-4-1977_shortfilms#

(around 12.37) If you look at the general conditions on the day this was shot, and the one thing that does seem like a clear fact - that mark hamill was not beet red from sunburn, then you get closer to how it all fits together maybe. the more i look at this stuff the more it seems like the relationship between colours adds or minus to the sense of lightness or heaviness, if the relationship is screwed up to begin with then plus or minus brightness isnt going to completely undo that

3rd edit: Theres something about the relationship between the darkness of the hair and the blown out sky that doesnt seem to gel / work

So the light blue sky was always already blown out somewhat on the technidisc master anyway - by the (contrast?) settings used by the operator?

PS78:

Here's my tweak (2nd attempt) on a still from one of myscamore's new technidisc clips to give you an example of the above statement:

ORIG

TWEAK 2

Now the thing is I can't get this result by moving the sliders in vlc image adjust (i.e. plus or minus contrast, brightness, etc). myscamores original seems to be the most balanced and correct result with the way those sliders interelate (a push even a little in any direction and you start losing information altogether). The result I got was done by using the curve tool against the graph of the levels- which *I think* is a less linear or fixed interelation of adjustment aspects. It brings levels up between points at different speeds so to speak. I also added a duplicate layer which seems to be adding to the image in a less linear way than just adjusting the original sliders. Now, whether my result grabs you or not, my speculative question is whether rather than summing or merging linear captures, is whether there is some way to 'weave' a new duplicate out of a moving graph of the initial capture using a fixed or modulating 'response' curve. Or merge multiple captures with different settings in different percentages to improve on a single capture. [thus improving on the best-on-average setting via a more automated correction process]???

Or if that sounds a bit too like rambling nonsense - does anyone have any ideas how to lift out the darkness embedded in this master a bit without blowing out the whites?? Is there actually much room for manouevre on this?

Asaki said:

frank678 said:

... The stills Asaki linked of his VHS capture look like they have just fractionally cleaner/lighter whites. It will be interesting to see your results on this tape, especially as its fresh out the box!

 Like I said, I didn't calibrate the picture or anything. The whites are way blown out compared to how it looks on an actual TV.

Also, there's lots of rainbow colored interference from the VRC itself. I just wanted some quick shots, so I didn't bother averaging multiple shots together or anything fancy like that.

 Sorry, my brain didn't process the blown out whites info, in my haste to click the link. Its wierd even though I know its bad for the image integrity there is something appealing to me about upsetting levels if it makes the image feel more open or light somehow. I think this is a wierd subjective taste of mine (like people who set the treble really high on their stereo). This is a good reason why I should never do my own project with these sources.

russs15 said:

Which all goes to back up my thoughts that once we have a particular release "in captivity" we will know for sure exactly what each release was the same as or different to. Phrases like "I assume" and "AFAIK" will become a thing of the past.

Once everything has been captured and logged here, people can then quote hard facts that you posted seven years ago which again justifies what I did.

 

props to russs15 here, its easy to cross reference all this stuff when someone else has gone to the trouble of capturing and storing all this stuff for years for the benefit of people like me who can just arrive and access that info in seconds

AntcuFaalb said:

I now own a like-new copy (ROTJ opened; ANH and TESB sealed). It should arrive on Tuesday, 10 July. I'll capture it whenever I'm finished with PS78. Yay!

 Nice. One thing myscamore mentions in his Technidisc thread is he was unhappy with the white balance via his set-up. The stills Asaki linked of his VHS capture look like they have just fractionally cleaner/lighter whites. It will be interesting to see your results on this tape, especially as its fresh out the box!

pittrek said:

So many fantastic things going on this forum these days :-)

i've started to lose count of the number of must-have versions that are scheduled to come out in 2012. it feels kind of repetative to keep posting in each persons thread that they are doing awesome work, especially when you don't really altogether understand the technical aspects of what theyre doing!! but i'll say anyhow: you are putting in great care on this puggo to our benefit, can't wait to see the finished celluloid awesomeness

Looking at the first three frames russs15 posted in the link below, 1984-9, I would be a bit sceptical that even if the exact same master is thought to be used for consecutive versions over a period of years, that some minor differences might still not emerge. It depends if you think these are worth spending time (or money) investigating. Maybe some people in the early days of the forum already investigated all this and laserdisc won everytime so there was no vhs preservations worth archiving. But what if a specific aspect fell through the cracks?

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Help-Im-new/post/582999/#TopicPost582999

I'm interested to know if the tapes from different european countries were any different or australian tapes??

Harmy said:

Could you guys remind me what was the last WP reel I released?

unless i missed one it was reel 4

Did you find a way round the Macrovision thing? Did The Phantom Menace defeat your new set up?

Edit: I just realized in my haste I completely blanked the original topic. apologies. if you are tackling this set I was eager to find out if you managed to tame the macrovision thing that seemed to have killed the PM tape or were you able to get round it

AntcuFaalb said:

This is what Han has to say about the Panasonic AG-1980...

Tons more definition, clarity, subtlety of colours. YES! Please don't let the above post re light trails detract from just how awesome this tape is in how close it gets you to the original look and feel of the 1977 Star Wars. I can't wait to see the new improved version. Awesome work AntcuFaalb

SilverWook said:

Is it possible it's an artifact of the camera used in the transfer? 1970's video cameras were notorious for "trails" on bright light sources like candles.

Here are a couple of examples of the ghosting/light trails which is subtle on static shots but more obvious on high contrast moving shots. My sense also is this is a result of the original 1970s capture not the tape to digital conversion, but I know very little about this stuff really, so expert anaylsis would be helpful:

Harmy said:

Must be from the actual trailer, because it has colourless lightsabres :-)

Well spotted, i missed that! I thought because there was lots of variation between the scenes it might have been different sources or maybe trailers combined. Some of these frames look amazing - rich detailed and beautiful celluloid texture - others look... erm.. a not so beautiful pink

edit: that wasn't a critique of this brillant trailer, just wish you had a time machine among your equipment and could have grabbed one of these trailers fresh out the lab