fmalover

Apart from The Last Jedi, which is currently my all-time favourite Star Wars movie, and Rogue One, which I greatly enjoyed, I must say I’m sorely disappointed with the way Disney has handled the franchise, even moreso with how fans loved TFA which is essentially Star Wars 2.0.

So far Disney’s nu-EU has been devoted to every last minute detail of the OT, from the time Luke took a dump after receiving his medal for destroying the Death Star to all the hours Leia spent braiding her hair in her spare time. Come ON!!! You have an entire Galaxy’s worth of storytelling spanning thoudands upon thoudands of generations yet it revolves around the same five characters during the same four year period of the OT.
Then there’s Star Wars Rebels, which is Star Wars at its most risk-averse, play-it-safe, where the good guys always prevail and win to such an extent one must wonder how did the bad guys rise to power in the first place, so much so it’s a miracle Kanan Jarrus died at all, which despite it being the logical conclusion to his character arc Filoni admited he would have had him survive. We also had to endure Thrawn, one of the smartest characters in the Galaxy, being thwarted by a whiny teenager, thus ruining him in my eyes.

Under Disney I’ve already noticed Star Wars is becoming increasingly sanitised. Case in point the Hutt species. In the original canon all Hutts were hermaphrodites with some having a more masculine personality whilst others having a more feminine one. Now in the new Disney canon the Hutts are strictly male and female. Another example is the near-complete removal of sexy female characters, starting with Disney no longer selling slave Leia outfits. Remember Darth Talon? Or Quinlan Vos’ sexy wife from the old EU? I guarantee we will never see those types of characters ever again in SW.

Sometimes I wish Lucasfilm had been bought by another film studio, like Warner Bros or Universal. Right now the only thing I’m looking forward to in terms of Star Wars are Johnson’s SW trilogy and Benioff and Weiss’ films.

For me The Clone Wars was always hit-and-miss, featuring the introduction of Ahsoka Tano, the most shoehorned character in the Star Wars franchise (I wish Filoni had the balls to finally kill her off, but she’s his pet character) and as cool as bringing Darth Maul back was it still reeks of fan-fiction levels of writing. Still, we will finally get to see the series end as it should have years ago.

poita said:

fmalover said:

The frame I am most curious about is the one where Luke is recovering inside the bacta tank with Han, Leia, Chewie and 3PO watching. That scene looks so different from one edition to another that I don’t know which one is the correct one.

This shot?

(Note this isn’t from the print, I just want to clarify which shot you mean.)

Yes poita, that’s the one.

Possessed said:

Yeah people don’t like tfa because it’s original, they like it because it’s fun and has good characters and is executed well, even if the ideas that it is executing aren’t very original.

I didn’t have any “fun” watching TFA, and with the exception of Rey and Poe I found most of the characters annoying as hell. Hux felt way more menacing than Kylo Ren who came off as a whiny kid who throws a tantrum at every turn. I also still don’t understand why people say it’s well executed, it sets up unnecessary mysteries (Rey’s origins), reintroduced Anakin’s lightsaber for no other reason than nostalgia, and is as insipid as anything Abrams has directed. I will only watch episode IX to see how the story ends, which will probably be ROTJ 2.0, but my interest died the moment Abrams was announced as Trevorrow’s replacement.

Thankfully Rian Johnson’s SW trilogy has something for me to look forward to in terms of the franchise.

Frank your Majesty said:

fmalover said:

Trolling aside, The Autistic Asexual has a point.

Why the hell is TFA held in such high regard? I’ve noticed many people have ranked in the upper half of their lists what is essentially a copy-paste of the first SW movie. The reasons commonly given are:

• It made SW enjoyable again.
• It did an excellent job setting up the ST.
• The characters are engaging and well written.

I say Bullshit! All this movie does is recycle the Empire vs Rebels setting of the OT, rebranding them as the First Order and the Resistance. When I first saw TFA I couldn’t stop asking myself how can the FO be every bit as powerful and wealthy as the Empire when it’s made up of leftovers?
The only character I really liked was Rey even if she was way too skilled at everything for someone whose daily routine consists of scavenging ship parts. Finn was an annoying buffoon an Kylo Ren came off as a whiner rather than a menacing villain.

In case anybody here missed it TFA is currently my lowest ranked SW and has earned the distinction of being the only SW movie I didn’t like at all.

The main reason why many people rank TFA high is not that they think it’s a flawless masterpiece, but simply that they don’t like the prequels at all. “It’s better than the prequels” isn’t a very high bar to jump, but it means that TFA is already in the middle of the list. And ROTJ isn’t exactly stellar, either.
Of course that’s all personal opinion and it’s fine if you like the prequels, but I hope you can at least understand that others do not.

Honestly I’d much rather watch a PT marathon every now and then over TFA. And as for ROTJ I consider it the pinnacle of traditional special effects.

The frame I am most curious about is the one where Luke is recovering inside the bacta tank with Han, Leia, Chewie and 3PO watching. That scene looks so different from one edition to another that I don’t know which one is the correct one.

Trolling aside, The Autistic Asexual has a point.

Why the hell is TFA held in such high regard? I’ve noticed many people have ranked in the upper half of their lists what is essentially a copy-paste of the first SW movie. The reasons commonly given are:

• It made SW enjoyable again.
• It did an excellent job setting up the ST.
• The characters are engaging and well written.

I say Bullshit! All this movie does is recycle the Empire vs Rebels setting of the OT, rebranding them as the First Order and the Resistance. When I first saw TFA I couldn’t stop asking myself how can the FO be every bit as powerful and wealthy as the Empire when it’s made up of leftovers?
The only character I really liked was Rey even if she was way too skilled at everything for someone whose daily routine consists of scavenging ship parts. Finn was an annoying buffoon an Kylo Ren came off as a whiner rather than a menacing villain.

In case anybody here missed it TFA is currently my lowest ranked SW and has earned the distinction of being the only SW movie I didn’t like at all.

I must say my favourite character in TLJ has to be DJ. He is perhaps the most cynical character in the saga, so much so I am curious as to what made him forsake any pretense of idealism as decide to only look out for himself. I wish there had been more interaction between DJ and Rose as they are the counterpoint to each other. My favourite of DJ’s scenes is when he’s about to depart with his money and he tells Finn it’s just business to which Finn retorts he’s wrong. DJ’s answer? An indifferent “maybe”.

Frank your Majesty said:

In my opinion, these two threads should have been created right after TLJ was released, when it became evident how polarising it is. This might have shortened some of the drawn out, fruitless arguments.

This said, I like how polarising TLJ is. It turns the comparably safe TFA on its head and takes the ST in a new direction. I’m curious for the final chapter.

I’m feeling pessimistic about Episode IX due to Abrams returning, as he’s a very play-it-safe kinda guy. The only movies where he was involved that I actually enjoyed are Armaggedon (he was one of the scriptwriters IIRC) and the very first Cloverfield movie which he produced. Other than that I consider him to be the popcorn guy’s Paul Thomas Anderson, in that both make totally insipid movies yet both are praised by their respective audiences as genius visionaries. If Chris Terrio was the sole scriptwriter I’d be more optimistic, but I’m sure Abrams will botch it all up as co-writer after all as he, alongside Lawrence Kasdan, scrapped Michael Arndt’s original script for TFA and then both proceeded to a copy-paste job.

My only problem with the 35mm scan is the washed out colours. I remember a guy posting screengrabs from a scan he made which had much richer colours. Sadly he hasn’t posted in nearly two years.

Glad to see this thread is starting to take off. I also noticed that there’s a TLJ depreciation thread, meaning if you only want to keep bad mouthing the movie then go have fun over there.

I would also like to thank oojason and Jay for their support.

Yeah, but for every positive comment made there are about 50 negative ones.

Ever since TLJ was released in cinemas people across the Internet have, for the most part, posted nothing but negative comments on the movie, claiming that it has ruined SW forever and that it’s one of the worst movies ever made.

I disagree. Personally I loved it and consider it the perfect SW movie, it is currently number one in my personal ranking of the SW movies. I also think the movie has a lot more fans than is apparent, otherwise it wouldn’t have been the box office success it has been, kinda like the Transformers movies, where everyone calls them garbage yet they have been very successful.

So, I have decided to create this thread for those who genuinely liked the movie.

NOTE: Please post only if you like the movie and have nice things to say about it.

Moderator Edit - September 2019: We have a ‘In what ways did TFA completely nail it, either in terms of filmmaking or in terms of continuity?’ thread for The Force Awakens - and this is a similar thread for The Last Jedi.

There are many other ongoing threads for those who still wish to criticise TLJ - this thread is not one of them…

Jay said:

Those of you who aren’t interested in the thread are welcome not to participate.

That goes for every other thread as well.

sigh I wish I had a computer so I could download and enjoy this gem, but that won’t happen for quite a while. Hopefully by the time my new PC arrives 4K80 and 4K83 are already available so I can add the original unaltered trilogy to my collection in one sitting.

I think part of the problem is that many of today’s tech savvy consumers are looking at things from a digital perspective and so we have blu-ray/4K transfers that try to emulate the look of the latest in high quality digital video rather than preserve the look of film. I suspect this is why even recent movies shot on film look like crap.

Yeah, it’s real shame that the only ones who care about this subject regarding film fidelity are a minority. I would also like to add that much to my displeasure there are no more film projectors where I live. Digital projectors can’t hold a candle to the sheer magic of a film reel running in front of a light bulb. Just like there are some purists who will only listen to music on vinyl records, I am a traditionalist who thinks the best way to watch a movie is inside a large dark room one reel change at a time.

I liked the first Iron Man a lot, and IIRC Iron Man 2 wasn’t as good due to studio interference. Last year I saw Swingers which Favreau wrote and thought was a nice movie.

That’s the extent of my knowledge of Favreau’s work behind the scenes so I think this might be worthwhile as long as he takes loads of risks instead of coming up with play-it-safe sanitised stories like Filoni who AFAIK will continue to shoehorn Ahsoka in every single SW story until the end of time.

poita said:

In other news, a very rare opportunity has come up to secure an unfaded Empire Strikes Back print, but I will really need help on this one.

Is this the same print being discussed in thestarwarstrilogy forums?

NeverarGreat said:

fmalover said:

The reason TPM looks a lot more like a SW movie is because it was shot on film + they used real sets and locations which is its saving grace unlike the latter two prequels where Lucas went overboard with 99% CGI alien characters as opposed to the OT where non-human characters were either people in costumes or puppets and of course the obvious nauseating blue/green screen backgrounds, speaking of which, I once read that when Ewan McGregor was approached by Michael Bay for the movie The Island when he wrapped up ROTS he was reluctant at first because he was tired of shooting in front of blue screens and green screens but Bay told him not to worry because he prefers practical effects.

Breathe. Just…breathe.

What do you mean by that?

The reason TPM looks a lot more like a SW movie is because it was shot on film + they used real sets and locations which is its saving grace unlike the latter two prequels where Lucas went overboard with 99% CGI alien characters as opposed to the OT where non-human characters were either people in costumes or puppets and of course the obvious nauseating blue/green screen backgrounds, speaking of which, I once read that when Ewan McGregor was approached by Michael Bay for the movie The Island when he wrapped up ROTS he was reluctant at first because he was tired of shooting in front of blue screens and green screens but Bay told him not to worry because he prefers practical effects. McGregor later admitted working on The Island was a welcome relief because once more he was working on location and physical sets.

For me it’s definitely everything that happens between Finn and Rey meeting Han and Chewie and their escape on aboard the Falcon. The whole sequence plays out like some sort of farcical slapstick with the stupid rathtars and the space gangs, I felt as if the movie turned into a parody of itself.

A close second would be the conversation between Anakin and Palpatine in the Opera house. Seriously, this guy with no apparent ties to the Force is revealing himself to be very knowledgeable about the Sith and talks a great deal about how the dark side is better whilst making no effort whatsoever in hiding his contempt for the Jedi and Anakin, a Jedi Knight, does not find it the least bit suspicious, instead calmly listening to everything he says.

I’ve noticed that many here dislike the fact that TLJ pretty much disregards the set-up of TFA, but that’s exactly one of the things I love so much about TLJ, that it spits right in the face of its predecessor. I applaud Johnson’s decision to do away with TFA’s stupid set-up and just trust his instincts doing what he felt was right. I’d like to know if anyone here feels the same way.

IMO SW needs more people like Johnson who aren’t afraid to do what they think is best and are willing to take risks even if it pisses people off, not people like Filoni who’s a play-it-safe good-guys-always-win guy. Rian Johnson’s SW trilogy is right now the SW project I am looking forward to the most.

TFA had its fair share of idiotic humour (the cringe worthy rathtars) and nobody batted an eyelash, in fact some even praised it “OMG SW now has comedy in it LOL”, and Johnson has decided to continue with Abrams brand of humour but now everyone is like “WTF Johnson is ruining SW with his comedy”. Seriously why? I don’t get it.

TV’s Frink said:

fmalover said:

Most disappointing aspect:
The Force Awakens. I don’t understand why so many like what is essentially SW 2.0, the FO is made up of what’s left of the Empire yet still has the resources to build a third Death Star about twenty times the size of the original, plus there’s a line of dialogue from Rose in Canto Bight which is “there’s only one job that can make you this wealthy in the Galaxy… Selling to the FO”. So, despite being reduced to a mere fraction of what once was the FO has apparently retained the Empire’s vast wealth. WTF?
I also didn’t like Finn being a total buffoon in TFA, and as for Rey, while I like her as a character I want you to imagine the following: picture a girl from a third world country who grew up in the slums scraping through garbage but guess what, she’s a capable hand-to-hand fighter, can fly aeroplanes, drive motorbikes and is pretty knowledgeable in mechanical engineering. Congratulations, you just pictured Rey, and her being so skilled at just about everything is what annoys me the most.

You only did half of the assignment.

Connection problems, my friend.

Reading my own post and thinking about it a little better the actual most disappointing aspect of the ST is in fact the whole set-up. The FO being an unstoppable military force despite being made up of the remnants of the Empire that is capable of dismantling a galaxy wide New Republic is by far the most illogical aspect of the story. Not just that, as previously stated in my post they are also implied to be wealthy enough to afford the best ships and weapons money can buy. So all it took to defeat the New Republic was the destruction of a mere five planets? Did the NR concentrate all their military fleet on those five planets? They don’t have a galaxy-wide fleet or at the very least patrols? And as Mr. Plinkett said in his prequel reviews, if you need expanded material like books and such to explain the gaps in logic within your movie then the movie is a failure. To say J. J. Abrams masterfully set up the story is disingenuous. It’s almost as if after WW2 the Nazis who fled to South America had unified the populations of those countries under one banner, developed nuclear bombs, trained a massive military force consisting of a super navy, a super air force all in the span of thirty years and in 1975 launched a coordinated nuclear strike all across Europe that obliterated all capital cities and all European countries meekly surrendered without a fight.

I didn’t mind Rey being naturally strong in the Force and picking up a few tricks with ease, it’s entirely possible she earned some knowledge by reading Kylo Ren’s mind, but I do have a problem with her being talented at everything when her daily routine consists of scavenging ship parts.

One thing I say the pre-Disney EU got right was the Imperial Remnant, which IMO is far more believable than the FO, where what’s left of the Empire is forced to get creative with their tactics and in the end since they still firmly believe in the Empire they reach an agreement with the NR and are granted their own slice of the Galaxy where they are allowed to rule themselves independently of the Republic. I think the FO should have been a sort of fanatical group of imperialists that unlike the open warfare tactics of their predecessors rely on deception, espionage, infiltration, guerilla warfare, kidnappings, forced conversion, terrorism and their members have a cult-like mentality, you know, starting small, conquering seemingly unimportant planets, enslaving the best scientific minds in the Galaxy forcing them to develop technology that gives them an edge in combat… You guys get the gist of it, but instead it’s almost as if the Empire let the Rebels win thirty years ago because they were bored or something.

I think I’ve ranted enough about how poorly set up the ST is, now I will talk about the most satisfying aspect of the ST: The Last Jedi.
Not only do I think the movie is flawlessly made, I also love the fact that it spits right in the face of TFA and all of its dumb ideas. Characters that didn’t work for me are made a lot more appealing, like Finn, who goes from being the buffoon in TFA and really matures into a hero willing to die for the greater good. Kylo Ren came off as an immature whiner in TFA, but here you really feel how emotionally unstable he is as a person, impulsively killing Snoke, being fooled by Luke’s diversion on Crait due to an urge to get even with his former master. It’s a shame Rose isn’t present when DJ reveals the people who sell to the FO are the same who sell to the NR, it would have taught her to not be so idealistic. Now this is a matter of personal preference but I would have switched Rose with Paige because I find Paige to be physically way more attractive than her younger sister.

Most disappointing aspect:
The Force Awakens. I don’t understand why so many like what is essentially SW 2.0, the FO is made up of what’s left of the Empire yet still has the resources to build a third Death Star about twenty times the size of the original, plus there’s a line of dialogue from Rose in Canto Bight which is “there’s only one job that can make you this wealthy in the Galaxy… Selling to the FO”. So, despite being reduced to a mere fraction of what once was the FO has apparently retained the Empire’s vast wealth. WTF?
I also didn’t like Finn being a total buffoon in TFA, and as for Rey, while I like her as a character I want you to imagine the following: picture a girl from a third world country who grew up in the slums scraping through garbage but guess what, she’s a capable hand-to-hand fighter, can fly aeroplanes, drive motorbikes and is pretty knowledgeable in mechanical engineering. Congratulations, you just pictured Rey, and her being so skilled at just about everything is what annoys me the most.