djsmokingjam

Mr Shickadance said:

Sorry for those of you who don’t want to hear it but if a company like Criterion decides to restore a public domain film and releases it there is no way they can copyright their “restored version”. Think about what restoration is for a second…you can’t copyright something just because you put it back to the way it was supposed to be.

So to answer suspiciouscoffee’s original question yes you can take their restoration of Night of the Living Dead rip it and do whatever you want with it.

Again, it is not Criterion who have copyrighted the new restoration, but MoMa and Image Ten. And yes, it is protected - while the film itself is still public domain, and can still be released by anyone via any of the old masters, the 4K restoration is technically a derivative work that is protected and registered separately, in the same way that someone could copyright their own scan of the film if they chose to do so; the difference is just that your version would be shitty and redundant next to their definitive version. So you can use many of the previous masters for your projects, but not the 4K restoration.

I’ve been building up quite a collection of Mike Jittlov films in the last few years, including a few of his shorts on 16mm as well as laserdisc releases of The Wizard Of Speed & Time feature. Anyone fancy collaborating, contributing to or advising on a preservation project? I spoke to Mike on the phone last year and it’s highly unlikely we’ll see an official release of any of his films anytime soon.

If anyone has recommendations for places in or near London that transfer 16mm to 2K for a reasonable price, I’d much appreciate it - one of the short films is beginning to smell a bit vinegary so probably can’t be projected anymore.

No - the restoration is owned by MoMA (and subsequently licensed to Criterion).

Ronster said:

How’s things come along with this?

Any Interesting stuff you found?

I haven’t been able to do any additional work on this for the last couple of months due to being busy with other things. The only new pertinent info I’ve found since is a post from a Blu-Ray.com user that says the original theatrical version of the Wages Of Fear cut didn’t dub the foreign-language scenes, but rather presented them in their original languages with subtitles. The dub was done for TV masters which were then used for the VHS releases discussed. However, there’s no way to verify that now without access to an original theatrical print.

In terms of Sorcerer news, a new coffee table book full of photos and production memos related to the film is being released in France this April by La Rabbia, who released the French DVD set. Not sure how I’ll be able to afford a copy at the moment, but I want one all the same! http://www.larabbia.com/books/sorcerer-sur-le-toit-du-monde/

I saw the new Sorcerer DCP (which is the same as the Blu-Ray master, but at full 4K) at the BFI last night. Personally, when it comes to the bridge scene, I’d say the HD/4K master is closer to the grading on the tape than your regraded still, just with certain primary colours (especially the greens of the trees) pushed up and saturated, which is the sort of thing I’d expect Friedkin (ever the revisionist) to do. None of us know what the correct colour timing is, and given both the cinematographers are dead and Friedkin is seemingly incapable of telling the truth, I doubt we’ll ever know.

To answer your question, the helicopter scenes are in English, but the dialogue has clearly been revised and redubbed so I doubt it’s the “original” dialogue intended when the film was shot, or at least as Friedkin would have them delivered or mixed. I haven’t checked them against the script though.

I doubt you’ll get much out of the German TV rip, given it’s already very dark, quite compressed (825MB file size if I remember correctly) and is in heavily letterboxed 4:3, so lower resolution than any other source available.

As promised, here’s some framegrabs from the tape:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/aqwr27yp1742vzb/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-17h29m21s132.png
http://www.mediafire.com/view/exfdytop1q54y2d/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-17h12m31s590.png
http://www.mediafire.com/view/x3crabdk9a8099h/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-17h12m54s828.png
http://www.mediafire.com/view/8no53scz88ugy98/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-18h55m54s576.png
http://www.mediafire.com/view/99fnk46ksqxq40q/vlcsnap-2017-11-06-17h22m36s459.png

I’ll be checking it against the comparison I did of the German TV rip with the DVD in the next week or two hopefully.

Ronster said:

Thanks for the update… How do the extended scenes feel with the original sound mix for them?

That is not with the german audio dub…

I think any effectivess the extra scenes might have is more often than not spoiled by the extra dubbing. The scene where Nilo has to cross over the big puddle to assess its depth, in particular, has a bunch of unconvincingly looped taunts from Jackie that stand out like a sore thumb from the other dialogue in the scene.

But really good news glad you got this atleast…

Sorcerer for dummies 😃

I guess it is a bit of a silly edit I assumed as much but really for the scene extensions with english / original sound mix rather than flashbacks inserted haphazzardly also…

Well please share your findings.

Would appreciate a cap of the bridge scene also but with original colors please…

Ah interesting about fonts for english version! Is it possible to restore them?

I think my current plans for this are to try and restore the cut using a mix of the German TV rip and the Blu-Ray (slightly but not heavily desaturating and darkening the latter to more closely match the former) for the video, with a patchwork of all three sources for the audio. Before then, I’ll see if I can make a compilation of highlights and upload it to my YouTube channel. I’m just in the midst of buying a new (well, refurbished) Mac so might be in a position to start working on this later this in the week. Fingers crossed!

Well, good news - I have in my sweaty mitts an ex-rental Finnish VHS of the shorter Wages Of Fear, and have just finished watching it through while recording it to DVD on HQ setting. A few impressions:

• Seeing it with the original English audio really does drive home that this version is basically Sorcerer For Dummies. There is a lot of awkwardly overdubbed and re-dubbed dialogue, with much of the foreign-language dialogue dubbed into English (such as Serrano’s Paris-set flashback).

• There are still two or three scenes (from memory, the old man in the forest and the terrorists near the end) that haven’t been dubbed over. In these scenes, the original English subtitles are still visible underneath the new Finnish subs.

• Unlike the German TV rip, the opening and closing credits are in the same John Carpenter-style font as Sorcerer.

• Again, unlike the letterboxed German TV rip, the VHS is pan-and-scanned.

I’ll post a framegrab or two when I’m back at my computer on Monday. Meanwhile, go see the re-release of Sorcerer, in cinemas today!

EDIT: and hey, nearly a year to the day that I initially replied in this thread about the Finnish tape’s existence!

Managed to get the second disc ripped into an mkv file, so both halves of the Salem’s Lot movie airing are available if there’s interest. Here’s some framegrabs:
https://www.mediafire.com/view/um3mso33rsublmh/vlcsnap-2017-11-02-12h07m57s833.png
https://www.mediafire.com/view/q38bldwojiw4m0r/vlcsnap-2017-11-02-12h09m53s534.png
https://www.mediafire.com/view/q38bldwojiw4m0r/vlcsnap-2017-11-02-12h09m53s534.png
https://www.mediafire.com/file/mfj7fncbin1yd5q/vlcsnap-2017-11-02-12h09m31s084.png

JayArgonaut said:

TheHutt said:

JayArgonaut said:

SilverWook said:

It is airing on Spike Tv in the U.S. tonight. (I presume they air in HD?) Don’t know if it’s the two parter or not though.

How’s this for an eerie coincidence? The same channel where I recorded the UK SDTV airing from, is re-running IT again - right now. They’re using the cropped to 16:9 version now, so it’s fortunate that I recorded it last time. 😄

Was it at least the two-parter?

Yes, it was. Couldn’t see that channel shelling out for a newer master. 😄

It appears to be on again tonight - worth checking out if anyone wants a new recording? Here’s a photo from a promo item they sent out: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNexGnMW4AARl32.jpg

Whilst clearing out my old bedroom at my dad’s house this weekend, I found something that might be of use to anyone wanting to digitally re-create the theatrical version of Salem’s Lot. Namely, an off-air DVD recording of it from UK channel Five USA in 2007 or so, recorded at maximum bitrate and split between two discs. As far as I’m aware, the theatrical version hasn’t been played on UK TV since.

There are some caveats, obviously: the station bug on the corner of the picture is fairly large and intrusive; the picture has been cropped to 14:9 (still the standard TV widescreen ratio at the time); and at the moment, it looks like Disc 2 is corrupt and won’t play or copy over, so I only have the first hour (up to Ralphie biting Mike in the grave).

Still, the recording is nice and clear, so it still might be useful for a preservation. I’ll see if I can save Disc 2 with the rest of the film in the meantime though.

Ronster said:

I read what you originally wrote… So you got the english audio for the german cut?.. If so Hooray!

Not yet, but if it works out (which I’ll know in the next few days), then hopefully, finally, yes! (And no, I didn’t buy the 16mm print that was up for sale a few months ago.)

Ronster said:

1. Cement characters names they were somebody who became nobodys in Vera cruz.
2. Selective translation of foreign language awful either put translation up for audience benefit not just what is in the script. Use fonts of the time…
3. Telescopic sight overlay on truck shot missing
4. Recut shovel attack so it is in correct order as it is jumbled up.
5. Famous bridge scene color alteration awful in blu-ray begone foul image…try to make it look like poster promo images.
6. Put both cuts of the film together to make extended edition
7. Restore original audio mix

That is all i have to say summed up and I will help out if you agree… But i don’t think you agree…

No, I wouldn’t be interested in doing this type of fanedit myself; more likely I’d try to do a cleaned-up presentation of the Wages Of Fear cut and leave it at that. But if I get the tape and am able to capture it, then I don’t mind making the capture available for others who want to do their own fanedits. I did do a split-screen comparison using the German TV rip to determine which Sorcerer footage is used in it that could be used in a “preservation”, the results were quite encouraging.

Regarding a couple of your ideas: though I haven’t seen anything to confirm this, I’m fairly certain the shovel attack (as well as some instances of swearing, e.g. during the church robbery) were censored by Friedkin during post-production to ensure a PG rating from the MPAA. If that footage wasn’t restored during the 4K restoration, I doubt it still exists.

Also, regarding the telescopic sight: yes, this is detailed in Walon Green’s script, but the paragraph in question is emphatically crossed out in Friedkin’s copy of the script (reprinted as a book that comes with the snazzy limited French Blu-Ray), so it’s highly unlikely he ever intended for this optical effect to be included.

You may already be aware that Sorcerer is being re-released in UK cinemas and on Blu-Ray/DVD by eOne in the next few weeks. It’s safe to assume it will be the same master and audio as the other Blu-Ray releases, and the only bonus feature is the cringeworthingly tedious conversation between Friedkin and Nicolas Winding Refn from the French edition. A real missed opportunity, but at least the film is back out there.

EDIT: Never mind!

I made a thread announcing such a project (in SD) nearly ten years ago to the day: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Salems-Lot-1979-theatrical-version-preservation/id/8633 Weird timing! Obviously mine didn’t go very far, and I was hindered by a lack of sources as well as not particularly good equipment at the time. Needless to say I’d certainly love to see it done well!

ETA: I actually saw a 35mm screening of the theatrical edit a couple of years at a Halloween allnighter here in London. It was in great condition and was projected in 1.37:1.

As the “impaled on antlers” shot was in the VHS version I mentioned earlier, it’s certainly a safe bet that it’s on the UK DVD too; I would imagine they used the same master tape.

UK fans should also be aware that the full-length miniseries is screening on 35mm next month at BFI Southbank, London as part of their Stephen King season!

I’m pretty sure any “extra gore” is solely referring to the shot of Ed Flanders impaled on the antlers, though there are also alternate angles of one or two other scenes in the feature version if I remember correctly.

Here’s an excerpt from an Amazon customer review of the UK DVD:
“Regarding this two dvd set. . . It’s two discs, 184 minutes here so the uncut version. Picture is full frame. The sound is in mono and subtitles are English, Danish, Czech, Italian, Danish, Finnish, Norw, Polish, Spanish, Swedish and Portugese! As has been previously said, at the beggining of each disc there is a scene synopsis (spoilers!) so I would just select scene 3 on disc one and 29 on disc two until the proper movie starts or it may spoil it for you!”
(link here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R2KQG1BNRG2LHA/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B000FDFWYG)
So take that as verification that the UK DVD does indeed have the recaps at the beginning.

The VHS released by Warner UK in the mid-90s under their “Terror Vision” label was definitely the full two-part version, including all recaps and the reinstated gore. That was the first time the miniseries had been released on video in the UK, all releases up until then were of the feature cutdown. (The alternate scene from the feature version of Fred Willard putting the gun in his mouth still hasn’t been included on any release of the miniseries, as far as I’m aware.)

EDIT: never mind.

A matted 16mm print is currently up for sale on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SORCERER-16mm-Print-RARE-CULT-Film-1977-William-Friedkin-Roy-Scheider-UNCUT-/252794678051?hash=item3adbbcab23:g:k28AAOSw2gxYuBVe

Just to add to my post above, it turns out there was another VHS release of the shorter international edit at the same time as the Finnish release, apparently from the same distributor (CIC/Esselte Video) - this time a Swedish release under the title Fruktans Lön (http://3filmer3dygn.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/fruktans-lon.html). I’ve put out some feelers on trying to get a copy of either, but haven’t had much luck either way. Will keep trying in the meantime, and am planning a split-screen comparison between the German TV rip and the Universal DVD sometime soon.

Here’s YouTube links to the opening credits of both the German and Czech versions of the shorter cut (the former with a Czech dub overlaid).
German - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nFXcEm4N4k
Czech - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qAmIYsBBLo

Also found something interesting while doing comparisons between the old fullframe DVD and the Warner Blu-Ray; namely, that while the font and timings are different, the subtitles are otherwise 99% the same in terms of content between both versions, including a number of typos that are carried over.

However, judging by this photo of a 16mm print (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/ryhffmn/007b_zps797c3584.jpg), it appears that the DVD subtitles are not the original theatrical subtitles, as might originally be assumed. The sentence seen here is split between two subtitles on the DVD and Blu-Ray.

Ronster said:

If you can’t accept it has got some serious faults but it also has good things about it also then I don’t know really.

Ronster, it appears you are mistaking your own subjective opinions for cold hard fact, an approach that has no place in discourse about film (unless it’s to settle whether Greedo or Han shot first, of course). Lots of people, myself included, thoroughly enjoy Friedkin’s original cut, despite - or even because of - the “faults” that you describe. I can’t help but think that your hostility towards some of Friedkin’s artistic decisions was exacerbated by your reading so much about the film before seeing it and, in effect, deciding what the film would or should be before you even saw it. Leave the film alone for a week and then try to come back to it with zero expectations, and see what you think of Friedkin’s “mistakes” then. It’s a difficult (though I wouldn’t say incoherent) film, and it’s supposed to be. The European cutdown being supposedly easier to follow (and shorter) does not necessarily make it a better film.

Nonetheless, I thoroughly support any endeavour to preserve or re-create the cutdown, or do an “integral” combo of both cuts, and would happily do the former myself if I had access to the Finnish VHS I mentioned earlier to get the original audio.

The German broadcast of the Wages Of Fear cut, titled Atemlos Vor Angst, was actually capped and made its way online. It’s dubbed in German, and the titles have been changed/localised too, but it’s interesting to see the differences.

As far as I’m aware, the only official video release of this cut is a Finnish VHS released in the early 1980s under the name Pelon Palkka (http://www.fixgalleria.net/release.php?id=6946), which unlike the German broadcast, has the original audio, albeit with burnt-in Finnish subtitles. More info at OFDB: http://www.ofdb.de/view.php?page=fassung&fid=9321&vid=275128 I’ve not been able to find a copy though.

I heard a release similar to the French edition was being planned by eOne in the UK last year but this has failed to materialise. Maybe they’re waiting for the 40th anniversary next year? Friedkin will sue the face off anyone who tries to officially release the shorter version now his original cut has been restored.

EDIT: Woke up on the wrong side of bed and was gratuitously being a dick. My apologies, benduwan, ignore me.

You mean M&E tracks? Arrow, Twilight Time, MoC etc have put quite a few of these on their Blu-Rays in recent years.

jephyork said:

benduwan said:

benduwan said:

do anybody know where i can find the Evil Dead 2 Full Mexican TV Version?

http://www.bookofthedead.ws/website/evil_dead_2_versions.html

it´s on myspleen now

Is it the entire movie? The version discussed in your link is missing 10 minutes of footage in the middle, and only YouTube-level quality. If a better version has surfaced I’d be ecstatic.

A full-length rip of the “Severely Edited For Television” version hasn’t surfaced anywhere yet; the DVD-R the Myspleen uploader ripped from is just the YouTube upload with ten minutes missing, poorly encoded to boot. Some of the footage from those missing ten minutes showed up in other (now deleted) YouTube videos by another uploader.

I’m currently playing around with doing a “Severely Extended & Remixed” composite/fanedit, using .flv files from both YouTube uploads and the fullframe THX DVD for the theatrical material. I may upload it to MySpleen which it’s done, but it’ll take quite a lot of work getting it in a releasable shape, so no promises when/if that’ll happen.