dclarkg

It looks very clean, a much needed 2.0!

Oscar Isaac said:

There was a lot of practical effects. A lot of the stuff they actually made. There wasn’t a lot of green screen."

 Music for my ears :)

Handman said:

If it's going to happen, they'd better do it soon when demand is still high. It's almost been 20 years since the SEs came out, and younger people don't care about the OOT for the most part.

 Very sad but very true, younger viewers also prefer CGI candy even if it sucks.

I will add that also some of the ideas may be good depending on how are executed, in paper they tend to be more exciting because the representation of how may look it's entirely in your head

I found this on reddit, I think it's worth reading! Big spoilers (if the rumors are real). It's from a guy called ''SpoilerMan'' on 4chan. The comments in parenthesis next to some spoilers are mine.

From the reddit OP: ''(Quick note for the uninitiated, the thread is a bit difficult to follow. Many fake "Spoiler Man" accounts appeared, cloning his trip code, and there is a lot of shit to wade through before reaching the point in which he becomes verified).''

------PART 1: http://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2nyd64/rumor_potential_4chan_episode_vii_leak_possible/

Some interesting parts of the note:

-''Boyega is a force-sensitive Stormtrooper under command of Gwendoline Christie's character. He defects from the Empire over the course of the movie, ending up stranded on a desert planet (presumed to be Tatooine) during the first act. Having defied orders, Boyega is hunted as a deserter.''

-''Luke speaks to Yoda's force ghost in the film''

-''Leia is the leader of the New Republic. R2D2 and C3PO are with her during the film.''

-''Carrie Fischer's real life daughter,Billie Lourd, plays Leia in a flashback sequence. Darth Vader appears in this flashback as well, which apparently takes place on Endor.''

-''The Republic is building a super weapon on a Scandanavian-esque cold and forsaken forest world. Its ultimate purpose is unknown''

-''Isaac is an ace pilot with the last name "Darklighter" who's been fighting the Imperial forces for years now. He's a bit of a hot shot.''

-''Adam Driver's character is an ambitious, force-sensitive pilot who falls to the dark side.''

-''He builds his own lightsaber (the one we see in the trailer). It's referred to as a "junk" lightsaber, which is why it looks different from that which we are familiar with.''

-''He goes looking for Andy Serkis' character on the aforementioned Scandanavian-esque forest world, as we see in the teaser.''

-''Andy Serkis is some kind of alien Sith exempt from the Rule of Two. He is implied to have existed for a long time, be very powerful, and is the speaker in the teaser.''

-''Serkis is implied to have trained or used Palpatine for some obscure purpose.''

-''The Sith are not aligned with the Empire''

-''Serkis' goals differ from Palpatine's.''

-''Serkis does not play or replace Darth Plagueis.''

-''99.9% of the EU is disregarded.''

-''There's very much a sense of the old characters "passing the torch" to the newer characters.''

-''John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Oscar Isaac, Domhnall Gleeson, Lupita Nyong'o, Chewbacca, and the droids (presumably Sydow's character and Kira's ball droid) are the new "big 6". Adam Driver and Andy Serkis are Sith and Gwendoline Christie is an Imperial. Characters we still have no knowledge of are those played by Crystal Clarke, Pip Anderson, Christina Chong, Miltos Yerolemou, Greg Grunberg, and Warwick Davis.''

-------Part 2: http://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2o4hhp/rumor_potential_4chan_episode_vii_leak_part_2/

-''The premise of the film is that the Force has become stronger and more potent. There is a great tremor in the Force early in the film; those familiar with the Force feel as if its fundamental nature has somehow changed, while previously oblivious Force-sensitive individuals suddenly realize that they have a gift. This creates a great dichotomy of where to go, because neither Luke nor the antagonists are ready for this new liberation of awareness.''

-''Following the repression of the Empire and the Jedi purge, the Force is finally manifesting itself in more people who have the capacity to use it. In this context, it appears as if the Force wants to be used.'' (This reminds me the very first line heard on the teaser)

-''Boyega is, for all intents and purposes, the “new Luke Skywalker” (with a touch of Han Solo thrown in). He realizes he’s Force-sensitive when he feels the aforementioned tremor.''

-''Boyega is an orphan.''

-''Boyega, Daisy, and Adam Driver are all weak in terms of the Force throughout the film.''

-''Luke has trained seven Jedi since Endor, two of whom surface in the third act. It is unknown whether Lupita Nyong’o’s character is included in this distinction.''

-''In terms of character nature, Luke is like Yoda’s successor.'' (This seems to me a logical progression)

-''No mention is made of Luke having a child.''

-''Luke went into seclusion following an event post-Endor that has caused him to become hesitant when using his power to its full extent. He’s not really hiding, but rather hoping to keep attention off of his activities.''

-''Luke has come to the conclusion that the Jedi are not meant to be an open, quasi-police force like they were in the prequels. He has a close connection to the living Force, and he believes balance must be maintained through a lack of interference in the mundane conflicts of the galaxy. Luke’s contention is that the Jedi, while still needing to promote peace, order, and harmony, cannot actively become servants for any government – including the Republic. Past events and the demise of the old order are said to have taught him that.''

-''Daisy Ridley’s character, "Kira", has been raised incognito to both keep her safe from Inquisitors and from traitors within the Republic.''

-''Kira's ball droid is not related to R2D2, and its existence was apparently requisitioned by Disney.''

-''She inherits Luke’s original blue lightsaber in the first act of the film.''

-''Leia has been the Republic leader for some 30 years.'' (Makes sense)

-''Han does not die in the film. With that being said, his death is apparently being planned for Episode VIII. I would remind you all, however, that his death was also planned for Episode VI.''

-''There are Blue, Red, and Gold fighter squadrons in the film.''

-''Oscar Isaac’s character, "Darklighter", is stationed on Yavin. He is the leader of Blue Squadron.''

-''Han calls Isaac’s character “kid”, much to his annoyance.''

-''Domhnall Gleeson’s character is an Imperial officer who defects to the Republic. He is described as a “wingman” that joins the core cadre of good guys.''

-''Adam Driver’s character is the leader of Red Squadron. He is a hot shot fighter axe with dreams of grandeur, and has an ominous fascination with power and the Sith. He collects items relating to their order and has a close relationship with a past character who may or may not have fallen to the Dark Side.''

-''The hilt on the lightsaber he builds (the one from the trailer) is said to not function as a crossguard.''

-''Driver is largely untrained in the Force as of Episode VII.''

-''Andy Serkis’ species is one we have never seen before.''

-''Serkis’ machinations and outlook are very different from Palpatine’s. He believes the Rule of Two is a foolish edict and considers Palpatine as having made a couple of mistakes.''

-''We will learn who trained Serkis in the third act.''

-''Serkis is described as “legit”, and a “worthy foe to [Luke]”

-''While Sydow’s identity is a surprise, it’s not necessarily earth-shattering. It’s the sort of thing that hardcore fans would be excited about, but overly casual fans likely won’t realize the significance of. Sydow’s identity does have meaning, but you need to know the context.'' (Waiting for this one)

-''Boba Fett does appear, albeit very briefly.''

-''While the EU is disregarded whenever it interferes with the story trying to be told, apparently a few elements from the Del Rey / Bantam books have become legitimate. For example, Boba Fett’s short story in Tales from Jabba’s Palace is assumed to be how he escaped.''

-''No EU characters are used.''

-''Darth Revan is not in the film, and the mask that Adam Driver’s character wears did not belong to him.''

-''The Scandanavian esque planet is called Sullarn (as of the film's second draft), and it exists mostly in the film’s third act.''

-''The planets visited in the film are Tatooine, Yavin, Coruscant, Sullarn, and a final fifth planet from the third act.''

-''Tatooine is only seen in the first act (the Cantina and Garindan make appearances) and Coruscant is seen very briefly. Two parallel storylines converge on Sullarn, where the film’s climax takes place.''

-''There are many visual throwbacks to the prequel trilogy. A lot of conventional props, masks, and prosthetics will be used. (I guess this is because the PT is 'fresher'' in the viewers mind)

-''There is no kissing in the movie, no blood, no Benedict Cumberbatch, no Watto, and no black antagonists.''

-''“I am your father” esque twists are trying to be saved/concocted for Episode VIII. (Seems very ESB-ish)

-''Rebels will have connections to Episode VII, particularly regarding the Inquisitors. Disney has dictated the deep and thorough implementation of the Inquisitors into the Rebels storyline.''

-''Disney has apparently interfered in several matters regarding the film. That, coupled with "oversights", is causing Abrams great stress; Spoiler Man describes him as looking "10 years older every time we see him" and having no love lost for Disney at this point.''

-''There are three lightsaber battles in the film. Two of the three illustrate the vast skill gap between the combatants, and the third is “magnificent”, “heavy hitting”, and “original-trilogy styled”. (goosebumps)

-''The Empire is said to become more of a secondary foe as the new trilogy progresses. (Awesome, some real plot twists)

-''The film is apparently on par (quality wise) with Episode IV. "I'd say its as good as A New Hope", Spoiler Man says when asked which film it measures up to. (This is a HUGE statement and it could be totally biased, we'll have to wait and see)

-''Spoiler Man claims to have seen the script and some raw footage/dailies. He has great respect for Kasdan''

-''He contends that everything he says will be “95% correct”, but also that Disney and Lucasfilm are actively leaking fake information to spin things different ways and throw people off. In February, the influx of information both true and false will result in apparent contradictions. (Makes sense)

-''Ali Arikan is said to be one of the mouthpieces for the fake spins.''

-''Spoiler Man’s last message is that we “don’t fall to the spin machine”. (You've been warned LOL).

------PART 3 (This part is supposedly 95% false, read below): http://np.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2o6rse/rumor_potential_4chan_episode_vii_leak_part_3/

NOTE FOR PART 3 FROM REDDIT OP: ''Spoiler Man has come back yet again, contending that yesterday’s posts (compiled in Part 3) were “95% not him”. He says that the “Deak” and “Opuchi” script scans are fake, and that he would never directly spoil the film’s third act “for personal reasons” (?). He adds that he does indeed work at Lucasfilm, but all the stuff about “witch hunts” and the like resulting from the “leak” is wrong; “98% of Star Wars gross are from people who are casual fans and don’t even know the name of Boba Fett. [Lucasfilm] could give a shit what little things are spoiled on 4chan or Reddit.”

-''Deak is John Boyega's character.''

-''No character is in any way related to Count Dooku.''

-''There is a scene in which Boyega's character, Deak, refuses to incincerate innocent villagers''

-''Han does not have any Force-sensitivity.'' (Very Smart to keep him out of the force thing)

-''The Force is more potent this time around, and general acrobatics less so''

-''There are clones in the film.''

-Spaceships have a derelict look about them. The timegap between episodes have not changed them much, and they're still described as "80's angular". (Very smart move)

-''No Super Star Destroyers, but plenty of regular Star Destroyers. The opening involves one in some capacity.''

-''They are aiming for 115-120 minutes for length. Even though the movie will be shown digitally, they cannot exceed 6 reels of film. They want to avoid high VPF (virtual print fees).''

-''JJ has very high degree of paranoia regarding leaks. Spoiler Man contends that JJ himself is "the only reason the whole plot hasn't been revealed yet," and that the Disney oversight trusts him in keeping spoilers from becoming rampant until the Fall of next year.''

-''JJ has apparently been given a blank authority cheque from Disney.''

-''JJ is said to have great disdain for the prequels. A rumor circulates LucasFilm that he told Kathleen Kennedy "[George] literally betrayed and murdered his past achievements". (This one ALONE is enough for me to have extremely high expectations about a real OT feel)

-''Despite that, JJ is said to have paid "lip service" to George previously. Lip service means giving someone approval and/or support. (Maybe he is paying respect to OT Georgie *wink*)

-''Spoiler Man's favorite aspect of the film is the new cast. He says that they're "better than the originals," and that Oscar Isaac, Gleeson, Ridley and Boyega are "REAL ACTORS" that are legitimately good''

-''In the worst case scenario, he says he is lying to keep you interested in the film, or "muddling up other brutal rumors, hence will improve viewer experience". In an average case scenario, he is telling half-truths that calibrate and manipulate your expectations intelligently. In the best case scenario, he says, "I am absolutely right, but I responsibly avoid vomiting ALL of the big shit right off the bat."

-''For Star Wars fans, he calls this a "win-win"

-------PART 4" http://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2ob7ns/rumor_potential_4chan_episode_vii_leak_part_4/

-''Back in the conceptual stages, JJ wanted a darker version of the universe, and Kasdan had deep rooted desires to reuse some of his original ideas regarding the OT. Lucas' original ideas for the sequels were "a little bit too Skywalker-family centric." He wanted to keep it a family saga, which was fine, but the flak from all the prequel baggage would be huge if "by some cruel act of fate, Christensen appeared as a force ghost."

-''Disney did not want the liabilities of the prequels in the new trilogy, so both sides made a compromise: JJ and Kasdan would get their wish for a darker trilogy as they convinced Lucas that the Skywalker-Solo generations could be fallible, and not immune to temptation or ambition. Lucas insisted on a force majeure to set this up, so they came up with "The Force Awakens", where the Force as a concept would move away from the physical-measurable Midichlorian aspect and into a more mystical Kershner-esque form where it could not be quantified or defined. Even the Jedi would be stumped as to what was possible with it. (FINALLY!)

-''"Jedi" powers increase, but not necessarily kinetic lightsaber stuff. Dominating someone's mind, breaking into their will; that's the sort of stuff that gets powered up. "Think of it done by Serkis' character," Spoiler Man says. "Done without limitation, without ethical limits. Thats the sort of force powers that are prevalent in this film."''

-''The political landscape is murky and tired because of the unending war. Luke and company fought and won, but all they succeeded in doing was giving the Empire an enemy that's their equal. We didn't witness the end of the war in Return of the Jedi, we witnessed the first step in a transition that has led to a seemingly endless chessgame between military superpowers. The Republic and the Empire are two snakes eating each others' tails. The movie is dark because the galaxy is stuck in a bad situation that's about to grow worse. Because the Force is about to alter its nature dramatically, those who have been shunned and persecuted so long (Force users) are about to increase in both stature and abilities.'' (It feels very OT)

-''Of the two, the Empire is the lesser force. Corsucant is Republic territory, and a vicious struggle to conquer it is referred to in the script. This struggle was said to have cost "many lives and assets". (Nice change)

-''The Empire is not aligned with the Sith. While the Empire may be bad, the Sith are evil. They have completely different motivations.

-''The void of a central power has caused profiteers and illegals to run rampant across a majority of the galaxy.

-''There is a scene in which an Imperial fleet is assembled over "Sullarn", the supposed Scandanavian-esque forsaken forest planet. Spoiler Man equates it to a Star Wars version of Rheinland near the end of WWII.

-''There is a Krayt dragon scene of some kind which "finally puts a body to a skeleton in play". (Nice touch)

-''Boyega and Driver's journeys run parallel. One transitions from bad guys to good guys, and the other vice versa. Driver's journey apparently "hits close to home" for some other characters.

-''Boyega doesn't die, and "will never die". Spoiler Man reiterates that he is "the new Luke Skywalker".

-''Han mentions Lando to Chewie. While Lando doesn't physically appear in Spoiler Man's script, Spoiler Man has heard that Billy Dee has been cast without any fanfare. He thinks it's likely that Lando will appear, but "can't confirm it 100%".

-''Leia refers to a place called "New Alderaan", but it is never explored further.''

-''Daisy Ridley's character is the Leia to John Boyega's Luke.''

-''Daisy Ridley's character is slightly above Luke's levels of power in A New Hope. She is a step beyond Boyega and Driver.''

-''2 is still central and still finds himself in Luke's old X-Wing at some point.

-''Domhnall Gleeson starts off as an Imperial officer and transitions into an anti-hero. He is said to have the "tastiest role", and is ultimately revealed to be Luke's son. This reveal is "borderline Act III" and the revelation as to who he truly is forms his core story arc. It's said to complement the "reverse homage" nature of the script, with the girl saving the stormtrooper (Daisy and Boyega), Isaac saying "don't get cocky", etc etc.''

-''Gleeson's mother is revealed in the third act of the film.

-''When someone mentions Sifo-Dyas, someone says "he died in the Clone Wars (canon)". Another poster replies "yeah, and Vader killed Luke's father". Spoiler Man's response quotes these two posts and says, "focus on this argument; that's a hint".

-''There are plenty of nostalgic elements. Spoiler Man says that the most satisfying moment he can reveal is Luke's appearance. It parallels, both visually and contextually, Luke's first meeting with Obi-Wan. However, Luke's appearance is apparently better, and with more baggage attached.

-''The showing of the crossguard lightsaber in the trailer was done to emulate the success of Maul's double-edged lightsaber reveal. Although it serves no purpose in the fight that it's involved in, it was ultimately approved my Lucas. The shoddy construction and Driver's limited knowledge factors in to the design and the crossguard is apparently "not utilitarian."

-''Practical effects are 60-80% of the process, but they have CGI "decorators", "skittles", textures and trails and lighting additions. CGI is everywhere, yes, but its just a tool/decoration. Most significant things are models and physical effects. "You'll like it and approve it", he says, adding that "Casuals will be floored by it".''

-''Spoiler Man's contention is that post production is only about 20% done. When someone calls him out, claiming that "if post is only 20% done, how can you know about the CGI?" he has a pretty elaborate response. "Even before final color correction on Baseline, raw footage with even the most basic of effects has layers and layers of CGI on it. You want the classical Terminator hand prop instead of the CGI terminator hand, I get it. Thats why I'm saying that 7 will please you. Almost all of the space sequences are made by classical methods complemented in post by their CGI counterparts. Most dialogue or effect-light scenes are dotted with dozens and dozens of props. A British industry vitalized once by George Lucas and Ridley Scott was reborn when Star Wars used classical props to such an extent: they WILL make a big deal about it."

-''He contends that the dialogue is good, adding that "Kasdan can't fail in dialogues. Abrams can, but Kasdan can't".

-''Spoiler Man has seen no linearly edited footage, but has seen some raw footage of Tatooine and space scenes (shot with IMAX 9802's) that "looks splendid".''

-''Spoiler Man contends that the films are shot with IMAX 9802s (2 of them). Panavision Panaflex Millennium XLs are also used, especially in Britain. Arri Alexa WAS used for a couple of studio and inner Falcon shots. Coloring will be done on baselight, editing on a couple of advanced platforms like Inferno that we apparently don't know about. He (Spoiler Man) may be considered both pre and post, since they utilized LF departments as auxilliary this time (Bad Robot apparently didn't have enough people).''

-''He claims that he doesn't mutate "other shit" and he doesn't change "little stuff". He goes "out on a limb, and types as it is." When his two big spoilers are confirmed, everyone will return to his information.

-''He still contends that, come February, he'll be "[our] favorite friend", and posted this image: http://i.4cdn.org/tv/1417733097735.jpg alongside a post reiterating that he did not leak yesterday's "script scans". He doesn't provide any commentary on the picture (and no claims that he actually took it).

-''Spoiler Man also indicated that, in February, everything he said will be confirmed and accompanied by many more spoilers. February is when the British folks who worked on the film will no longer have anything to do with it contractually, so information will likely come pouring in. He also indicated that the first trailer would be released on May 1st. As of December 2nd, this has been confirmed.''

-''Spoiler Man contends that the amount of disinformation that will come in February, once Elstree and Pinewood go "ballistic with spoilers", will be very high.''

Make of this what you will, personally, I'm 10x more excited than before. If all of this is at least part true, I guess a great movie is coming along.

team_negative1 said:

Not a calendar. And hopefully won't go to 72, or you're going to have to wait a long time for it.

Team Negative1

 You found the entire OOT reels in mint condition and you are teasing us? I wish that was true....

Any other clues? A black frame per day isn't enough :(

Ohhhhh best Xmas present! Nice :)

JawsTDS said:

I'm guessing we won't see anything significant until around the 72nd frame (assuming 24fps, 3 seconds in).

 I don't think they will post 72 black frames... right? Maybe is not related to frames at all

A typical one: ''I have a bad feeling about this''

lol

team_negative1 said:

18 of ?

=====

Team Negative1

Is that a ISD? It looks like a ship but could be anything

I guess I'm all in for TFA, I already embraced 2 facts:

1- Nothing will be like the OOT since it was another time where things were different.

2-The PT set a low bar to beat so... maybe JJ will show the love for SW that GL didn't on the PT

I hope the movie doesn't suck but if it does I'll have many many years to complain about it, in the mean time ignorance is a bliss and I'll enjoy the excitement 100%

Tho only LD I've ever seen in my life was like 15 year ago, I will never forget that massive ''CD on steroids'', I watched Last Action Hero and I was astonished with the fidelity and clarity of the sound and image. I do remember that the speaker system of that LD player was massive, no less than 4 speakers if I recall correctly. Does LD have 5.1? No clue :P

timdiggerm said:

team_negative1 said:

Not quite. Its a hint.

 Star Wars Into Darkness

 Hahahaha looool

This looks nice! Keep up :)

No, but you are bizarre and funny

↑

It looks nice except for the lightsaber. Maybe some of you expect a true OT feel but c'mon, that's not going to happen. I think that some changes can be positive and we have to accept that most of the hands that created the OT are no longer part of the SW franchise, also things were different back in the 70's.

It's too early to tell how it's going to be since is just a teaser, maybe the upcoming trailers will reveal more but only when the real McCoy hits the theaters we'll know for sure if it sucks or not, until then I'll try to stay open-minded.

Hammer Time!

Post Praetorian said:

In what way might evidence for the non-existence of god be considered absurd?

Well, I as an atheist do not make claims of the non existence of god, my conclusion of the non-existence of god comes from the lack of evidence from the believers when they assert that there is a god. We can't take the existence of god as the default ''true'' that must be debunked. If a theist claims that there is a all-powerful supreme being then it must present the evidence of that claim and the evidence must be reviewed to see if it is true or not, if the evidence presented does not fit with the reality and knowledge of the world where we live then is false.

I don't assert that there is no god at all anywhere, I assert that all the evidence of all the gods in the human history points out to mythological tales and not the actual existence of a god. If there is a god and in the future the evidence is presented to support the claim then I'll become a believer, and if there is a god I'm certain is not one of all the ones presented in the past and present religions of the humankind.

In your view, is free will possible while a measure of information might yet remain absent?

I'm not sure that I understood the question... there is things we can't change because they are outside of or control but that does not mean that there is a destiny or divine plan of some sort.

Has it been your experience that these groups tend to care less or more for those yet on the outside (i.e. the theoretically damned)? 

They may care but in a very not caring way, like the people who help homeless people because they want to enter the paradise and not exactly because they really care, I'm not saying that every one has the same motivation but there is a lot of hypocrites as well.

If no such proof were forthcoming, but members of said religion were in general loving, steadfast, generous, honest, and kind would proof of the existence of that which might motivate them still be paramount? What if the alternative might be a society of certain degeneration whose source might be clearly known?

To clarify, if it might be known that by instructing individuals falsely one might achieve a societal norm of unprecedented peace and harmony; but by informing them of reality one might never achieve same, which might be the preferred option?

 Achieve a ''good'' society by brain washing and lies is not actually good, specially when the lies are absurd like you are going to hell for being gay or thing that actually make society worse. A true civilization should be civilized and fear, oppression, lies, punishment, segregation and etc are not civilized at all. There are many societies today that are mostly atheist and/or secular and they have outstanding social indexes. One of the many misconceptions is that if there is no god or a believe in god then everything will be chaos and immorality, societies learned how to coexists and evolve as a community long before modern religions and the gods teaching morality.

He sold a multimillion dollar franchise because of royalty lawsuits? I don't buy it. All franchises have lawsuits about everything all the time and selling them is not a magic solution AFAIK. 

Post Praetorian said:

dclarkg said:

Post Praetorian said:

In your opinion, might the world be improved or impoverished by a general reduction of religious views?

 I don't mind people believing that myths and legends are true, what I mind is those peoples pushing religious non-sense into state laws, education programs, science class, etc. In that sense I could say that world can improve not with a reduction of the religious views ''per se'' but with a reduction of the presence or religious views in public domain affairs like health, education, social equality, human rights, etc. If someone wants to pray, go to church or other religious activity I respect that.

 This seems a fair approach, but must it not bring a difficulty to the true believer? For if one truly believes in a supernatural deity that has established a moral code for the world to follow, that judges the individual based on his/her actions (or inactions), and that is to decide one's eternal fate, how might one then go about by day as though no such beliefs might be true, but then spend the evenings and Sunday fully accepting of their reality?

Further, would not such a ponderous supernatural being be assumed to negatively judge the believer for keeping such sacred truths to themselves rather than sharing and enforcing same?

Finally, if a believer truly believes that an individual with atheistic tendencies is destined for an afterlife of torment, should not the atheist view those most ardently wishing to save his/her soul in a positive, though perhaps misguided, light?

For is not such an individual apparently more caring with regards to the fate of the atheist than the believer who might accept the atheist's own preferred terms while knowing in his/her bosom that the atheist is bound for hell-fire?

To clarify: if one were certain of a conspiracy that would end with the injury of many, would not a compassionate individual be the one striving to warn the world in spite of being labeled a lunatic while one with less humanitarian aims simply be content to ensure that they and their family were outside of the area of effect at the time in question?

 The problem is that they assume too much and don't see the evidence that disproof their claims (this must NOT be confused with evidence of the non-existence of god which is an absurdity IMHO). Also there is suppose to be ''free will'' which pretty much means stop shoving your beliefs on people don't believe them. I can understand advices and suggestions based on their faith but usually it does not stop there, also most of the religious groups by default tend to see other beliefs and people that believe them as false, wrong or ''not in the side of the truth''.

My real point here is that if you want to run a society by religious terms them you must prove that your religion and god are the true ones to follow, to do that you must present evidence of you claims that should be reviewed in terms of reality, you can't go around saying that god exists because ''I feel it'' and a ancient book says so.

generalfrevious said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

generalfrevious said:

It totally sucks that I am living in the last decades of humanity, and that all life on Earth will probably be wiped out.

The largest extinction event in history -- the Permian-Triassic extinction event -- wiped out 96% of all marine species and 70% of all terrestrial vertebra species. Yet look at the Earth now -- chockful of life in all it's various forms.

Somehow, I don't think something as relatively minor as global warming is going to be the straw which breaks the Earth's back.

 I disagree. Global Warming WILL destroy 100% of all living organisms on Earth within the next century. We have never seen this before; and science will probably confirm my worst fears a few years from now. They could predict a 10-12 C rise in temperature by 2100 instead of 4-6 C. We could see South America, Africa, and half of Asia rendered uninhabitable much sooner than we expect; maybe by 2030 or 2040. The news is getting progressively worse every year.

 I guess that will be the end of us as human beings and the world as we know it, but don't worry since everything is a cycle and in a few million years the conditions may change and life will flourish again :) or maybe the world will remain a dirty lifeless rock ball until the sun runs out of Hydrogen and bye-bye solar system :(

Anyways... ''carpe diem'' ;)

DuracellEnergizer said:

generalfrevious said:

since none of you believe in climate change anyways

Oy, you don't know how wrong you are ... 

 +1