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daveinthecave

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20-Apr-2020
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17-Apr-2021
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Post
#1424131
Topic
What's the justification/in-universe explanation for this Darth Vader SE change?
Time

I assume that Vader was playing dumb because he was plotting against Palpatine. In any case I always thought the scene was weird to begin with. Why are they referring to Luke as “the son of Skywalkwer” as if Anakin and Vader are two different people? I get that, symbolically, Anakin has “died” but this strikes me as an incredibly strange thing to say in an ordinary conversation.

Post
#1422427
Topic
What is the best way to watch Clone Wars (2003)
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

I have no idea about the differences in quality, but the idea of watching it in 1 hour blocks sounds kind of exhausting to me. Keep in mind that the first two seasons (or “volumes” as they call them for some reason) were made up out of less than 5 minute long shorts jam-packed with action. Seriously, a lot happens in these shorts. There is sort of a single story told throughout the first two volumes, at least as far as Anakin and Obi-Wan is concerned, but there’s a lot of filler shorts as well. Volume 3 is much more like a regular cartoon with 20 minute episodes and tells two parallel stories just prior to the events of ROTS.

I don’t know where you can watch it as a series of shorts or episodes as the YouTube versions also combines everything into one movie. However, if the D+ version is anything like the YT version it should be fairly obvious when each short ends and the next one begins.

Thanks. I decided to watch it in smaller bits and yes, the transitions between episodes are quite obvious, to the point where its distracting. I’m enjoying the show anyway.

Post
#1422201
Topic
What is the best way to watch Clone Wars (2003)
Time

I’ve wanted to watch the Gendy Tartakovsky Clone Wars show for a long time now. Since it has recently been added to Disney+ I figure now is as good a time as any. But is this the best way to watch it? I am aware that fan-made 4K upscales have been circulating for a long time now. How do they compare to the official release?

I’m also wondering if watching the show in 1 hour blocks (which is the way it is presented on Disney+) is really ideal. I’ve never really been down with the whole binge watching thing and generally prefer to watch media in the way it was originally presented. Does this show watch better in as one or two long movies, or as a series of short segments? If the latter, is it available to watch in this format anywhere?

Post
#1410793
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

JadedSkywalker said:

Kasdan did not provide for the story in Star Wars the same way he did for Raiders of the Lost Ark.

He saved that movie. Other than making the dialog punchier and tightening up the script anyone could have polished up Empire or Jedi. Kasdan never was the author. Nor was Gloria or Willard co-authors on Star Wars the way they absolutely were on American Graffiti.

Lucas is bad on dialog and bad on drama so he hires people who fix those aspects.

Lucas is 100% the author of the OT good or bad, the same way he was for the prequels. Its his story and its in no way collaborative. The stories are his and very personal. They are in his imagination and his head. No matter how much he wished he could hand it off to someone else it was impossible.

It was a mistake to give Disney an outline and to believe they wouldn’t screw it up. He has to write these things and oversee them himself to get the desired result.

This 100%. Obviously film is a collaborative artform but Lucas is the author of Star Wars in the same way that Shakespeare was the author of his plays, which are still preformed by other people hundreds of years after his death.

SparkySywer said:

This is also why Richard Marquand was hired for RotJ. Marquand was a weaker, much less experienced director, but he wouldn’t have the balls to do what Kershner did. He also micromanaged a lot more with RotJ, as opposed to Empire, where he rarely even showed up on set.

This seems doubtful. If Lucas just wanted someone he could control he wouldn’t have asked Spielberg to direct it. I suspect that after the DGA kicked Lucas out and he was left with few options, he decided to effectively direct the film himself and found a young, fairly competent director that he could rely to get the needed shots while Lucas himself oversaw the aspects he considered important.

Omni said:

fmalover said:

TFA had the opposite effect on me. Repackaging the first SW movie and relying on nostalgia left me deeply disappointed, and I don’t know why TFA is still regarded so highly. For all their flaws I still find enjoyment in the prequels, but TFA is just plain garbage, and I don’t buy into the whole “they had to play it safe to earn the fans trust”. Bullshit!

Fully agree here as well, with your takes on TFA & TLJ, fmalover. I like how TLJ is an analysis on the mythos of the saga - and that makes it independent from TFA - because TFA contributes absolutely nothing to those mythos. TLJ’s characters might depend on TFA, but not its themes, which is where the movie truly excels. You don’t need to know Finn’s backstory in order for what his story in TLJ says to have value.

It functions perfectly as a coda to the saga. Why does all that’s been said and done in all of SW matter? What does it mean, at the end of the day when you wake up being just a real person, to be a hero? To do the right thing? TFA and TROS have nothing to say and I have no respect to them for it. I guess TFA won back some fans, something that baffles me, and I honestly believe the opinion on that will sour over time. TLJ on the other hand has a whole lot to say and is the perfect epilogue, a coda. A treat.

Though I don’t really agree with your take on TLJ, I can see this point of view gaining traction in the coming years. Certainly TLJ will age better then JJ’s movies, which are more forgettable then anything else.

Post
#1410506
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

Rogue One was probably better before the reshoots. The reshot ending was most likely conceived based on “rule of cool” and doesn’t really line up with ANH. I suspect the original ending was more consistent and thought out, only being changed at the last minute to make it “punchier.”

I’ll never understand why people think the ending is such a great segue into ANH. Like Leia is going to pretend that she’s on a mercy mission after fleeing from this intense battle? And then Vader, who seems intesnely focused during the climax of RO, just casually walks onto Tantive IV like he’s on a routine inspection.

Post
#1409666
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

jedi_bendu said:

As for this whole topic in general, I love the character of Cara Dune - a refuge from Alderaan having to find purpose again in the aftermath of the war - and I think a recast is best. I wondered if it’s possible for Lucasfilm to have fired Gina and told her, ‘If you stop sharing offensive stuff for good we’ll consider re-employing you’, but honestly I don’t think the relationship between her and the cast and crew (particularly Pedro, who is staunchly anti-Trump) would ever be the same again. There are plenty of other actors who would love to take on the role.

I think its a stretch to say that Pedro Pascal would have had problems with Gina. People with different political views work together all the time. Just look at Richard Donner and Mel Gibson. Their worldviews are like, diametrically opposed and they still managed to make six films together and seem to be on good terms to this day.

Post
#1407166
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

There are a few things I can think of from the movie. I don’t want to come off like I’m bashing Empire. I love Empire. I just think Star Wars is marginally better in terms of writing.

When Han is planning to leave to pay off his debt to Jabba, everyone (including Han himself) acts like this has to be a permanent departure. When really, there’s no reason why, in the 3-year gap between movies, Han couldn’t have just stopped by to pay off his debt then come back to the Alliance. He really only needed to make a quick trip and come back, but everyone acts like he’s abandoning the cause forever.

The whole Mynock/Space Slug sequence felt a little unnecessary, since the heroes find themselves in the exact same situation of being chased by a Star Destroyer as they were before.

Han’s trick of camouflaging the Falcon on the back of a Star Destroyer probably shouldn’t have worked since there were so many other Destroyers nearby facing different directions, so one of them was bound to spot it.

It’s odd that Han or Leia never noticed Slave I flying behind them during their sublight journey to Bespin.

Luke was able to go straight to Bespin, despite having no way of knowing what planet he saw in his vision or where that planet was located.

I agree with most of this but I think the Space Slug sequence allows time for character development between Han and Leia.

SparkySywer said:

I kind of hate that movies are judged based on how tight/holey their plots are.
Like I’m not about to argue that plot holes (and whatever you want to call your criticism of the space slug sequence) are secretly a good thing or even that they’re neutral, I don’t agree with the people who do actually say that. A haphazard plot can really take you out of a movie and can often demonstrate larger problems within a movie.

That said though, I feel like more and more in movie discourse people focus a lot on the tightness of the plot at the expense of, like, everything else. People judge movies like a high school teacher grades a paper, movies start at 100 points and then points get knocked off whenever there’s a ““problem””. And it’s just such a shallow way to look at movies.

Not necessarily accusing Servii of doing this, and this isn’t even just an anti-confrontational disclaimer or anything. Clearly this is not what they believe. But I kinda thought it was a good jumping off point.

I agree. Logical consistency is important but cinema is a visual medium and should always be judged, more then anything else, for its ability to tell the story (or get the point across or whatever) artfully, using the language of film.

Post
#1406732
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

A New Hope has tighter writing than Empire Strikes Back.

Could you elaborate on this. I’ve always been of the opinion that ESB had the tightest script but I’d be glad for a different take.

Servii said:

I didn’t like Harrison Ford’s performance in TFA.

Agreed.

Servii said:

Phil Lord and Chris Miller should have been allowed to finish Solo, and the movie should have been a comedy, though ideally, it should have been a Lando movie instead.

Though I’m pretty indifferent to Solo and question if it should have been made at all, I’m always in favor of the original director(s) being able to finish their work.

Servii said:

Killing off Han in RotJ would have been a mistake. If there was any time to kill him off, it should have been at the end of ESB during the freezing process.

Yes. Absolutely.

Servii said:

Kylo Ren’s mask should have remained destroyed and never been repaired or replaced. That was one of the parts of TLJ I actually liked.

Modern Star Wars is mostly bad, only occasionally having moments of greatness.

Agreed on all counts.

Servii said:

Lando is better than Han.

I like Lando but he gets very little to do outside of ESB and Han feels more fleshed out overall.

Servii said:

Mandalorians are overused, and are no longer cool.

I’m not (yet) tired of Mandolorians, but I feel sure I will be before long. I am pretty much done with Ashoka after Season 7 of TCW.

Servii said:

Revenge of the Sith has gone from underrated to overrated in the span of the past few years, and I don’t fully understand why.

I feel like the Plinkett reviews likely moved it in one direction, though I wasn’t really paying attention to the fandom before 2010. The fall out from the ST combined with a sudden onrush of Prequel apologists resulting from the generation who grew up with the PT coming of age has moved it the other way. Personally, I feel that its too flawed to be held in the same regard as Star Wars or Empire, but its up there with Jedi as an ambitious, at times brilliant, addition to the saga.

Post
#1406260
Topic
Revenge of the Sith - Expanded Edition (v2 Now Released!)
Time

Bobson Dugnutt said:

One small snippet that I was never able to get my hands on was mentioned over at T-Bone’s Star Wars Universe, as all his links are mostly dead. Apparently the Star Wars: Trivial Pursuit DVD Board Game includes an alternate line for a Super Battle Droid calling R2 “stubby”. I couldn’t find the clip anywhere so I went out and bought the entire game myself.

trivia

Here’s how the clip is presented alongside a trivia question.

Adjustments

And here is my integration into the actual film.

Adjustments

Once I can get the 35mm shot cleaned, I’ll upload v2 in the same place and folder as v1.

Your devotion to this project is truly inspiring. Keep up the good work!

Post
#1405530
Topic
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Time

I remember really enjoying Dark Empire and I agree that it’s one of the more creative and unique pieces of SW related media to be released since the OT.

ZkinandBonez said:

It’s quite interesting reading about the making of Dark Empire II and Empire’s End as you can tell Veicht and Kennedy weren’t overly enthusiastic about making them as the first series was pretty much intended as a self contained story. Though I would say that Dark Empire II deserves some credit, nor just foe the top notch art, but for some interesting ideas it played with. I especially like Ood Bnar; the idea of an ancient Jedi that is so old he became an old gnarled tree is about as mythological as you can get. His origin story in Tales of the Jedi was a tad bland I think, but that series overall did a great job at feeling different from the OT while still fitting within the SW mold. It definitely embraced the more fantasy-like elements. As much as I like Timothy Zahn, I do think it’s a real shame that the EU used his style as their standard instead of embracing the wilder aspects of the early Dark Horse comics. Like the Marvel comics before they weren’t afraid to go crazy with the IP and try new things, but after a few years they began playing it safe (the comic crash in the 90’s probably didn’t help either) and much of it began feeling very formulaic. Plenty of solid stories, but not living up to it’s full potential IMO.

I remember really enjoying Dark Empire and I agree that it’s one of the more creative and unique pieces of SW related media to be released since the OT.

The second book felt a little rushed from what I remember and the third read more like a treatment of a story then a finished comic book but they still had some interesting ideas and the artwork was always top notch.

Post
#1402298
Topic
The Music Discussion Thread
Time

The Phantom Menace- Duel of the Fates and Anakin is Free

Attack of the Clones - Across the Stars

Revenge of the Sith - The Great Jedi Purge and Battle of the Heroes

A New Hope - Binary Sunset

The Empire Strikes Back - Carbon Freeze / Darth Vader’s Trap

Return of the Jedi - A Jedi’s Fury / Destroying The Shield and Funeral Pyre For A Jedi

The Force Awakens - The Scavenger

The Last Jedi - Ahch-To Island

The Clone Wars - Anakin Talks to Ahsoka (from The Wrong Jedi)

I haven’t had enough time with any of the other movies to really comment.

Post
#1398792
Topic
Revenge of the Sith - Expanded Edition (v2 Now Released!)
Time

Bobson Dugnutt said:

I’ve been working on another revision of the edit, doing upscales of the BR scenes to 4K and then downscaling to 1080p. It looks surprisingly better, especially on the faces and clothing. So I’ll work on it for the ROTS scenes as well as the AOTC ones. I don’t think there was anything worthwhile for TPM but I’ll take a look

alyt
alt

Definite improvement in clarity here.

Post
#1394701
Topic
I don't think Revenge Of The Sith is as good as everyone says it is.
Time

Stardust1138 said:

I can certainly understand what you mean. It’s certainly not my favourite scene but I think catching on to the breathing foreshadowing made the scene a lot better for me. It’s such a simple catch and you miss moment.

I’ll have to watch for that on my next viewing of the saga.

Stardust1138 said:

I was also mistaken. My thoughts (in part) on The Phantom Menace is here.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Phantom-Menace-anyone-want-to-chat-about-TPM/id/72493/page/2#1366806

Out of curiosity, how do you rank the Skywalker saga films?

That thread had a lot of really interesting takes on TPM. I enjoyed reading through it.

As for my ranking I still have a preference for the OT despite the fact that the PT has grown on me a lot these past few years but its not set in stone and will likely change over time.

V > IV > VI > III > I > II >> VII > VIII > IX

TPM and ROTS are really close for me, as I said, and so are ROTJ and ANH.

Post
#1394383
Topic
I don't think Revenge Of The Sith is as good as everyone says it is.
Time

Stardust1138 said:

Sorry I never saw you replied!

I can so understand what you mean! I honestly love TPM. It’s my favourite Star Wars film. I’ve posted on the rankings thread in great detail why it’s my favourite. AOTC is probably the weakest of George’s six films but it’s also really grown on me in a very big way the last year. I think seeing world building like Coruscant become more commercial, Anakin and Padme have to travel as refugees, Padme contrasting Palpatine by letting go her position of power, and other layered aspects really make for an interesting viewing when you consider the gradual change of tone in each entry. I’m firmly in the minority but I love Anakin and Padme’s romance. They’re both repressed and don’t know what love feels like. It’s not meant to be smooth and will be awkward. However their love overtakes all in the end. I really like when Padme tells Anakin: “Anakin, don’t try to grow up too fast.” It’s so simple yet it feels right. Even Anakin telling Padme: “The thought of not being with you - I can’t breathe.” is great foreshadowing. I do wish there were more clarity to the mystery of Sifo-Dyas. That’s probably the biggest thing I wish had been addressed further in the films. It’s one reason I loved the idea of Snoke as Plagueis. He would’ve influenced Sifo-Dyas to order the Clone Army and he and Palpatine would’ve built the Empire in partnership. Master and Apprentice. There’s always a bigger fish. Anyways, Revenge of the Sith is a great film. I only have minor nitpicks.

My rankings right now are: I, IV, V, III, VI, II, VIII, VII, and IX.

I actually like the romance as well. It’s mainly the fireplace scene that doesn’t work for me. Most of the dialogue matches the awkward/repressed angle that you talked about but in that scene it sounds more Shakespearean and it doesn’t really fit.

Post
#1393639
Topic
Why I Love Prequel Yoda (and what I think people get wrong)
Time

StarkillerAG said:

This, 100%. I like Yoda’s prequel arc in theory, but having him swing around a lightsaber while jumping like an idiot was a huge mistake that devalues his character. Hal’s prequel edits are some of my favorite ones, at least partially because he removed every instance of Yoda using a lightsaber.

I don’t understand this point of view. I can see why it might break your suspension of disbelief, but how does it devalue his character in any way? We know that light-sabers are the weapon of the Jedi, and building one is supposedly some kind of right-of-passage according to Vader in ROTJ, so why wouldn’t Yoda use one?

Post
#1391860
Topic
Opinion: Return Of The Jedi is Very Underrated. Do You Agree?
Time

TheBirdwatcher said:

Now the emperor dismisses this, saying that they are safe from the attack (how would Luke even know if he’s telling the truth here?), commands an attack from a button on his large chair that can spin (did Vader’s chair even do this in Empire?), and the DS II starts blowing up… a few large ships. Not everyone, just a few large ships. Wait, the rebels are in a trap with the Empire’s fleet. So, the emperor says that ALL THE REBELS will die. However, from what I remember, the rebels could actually leave, but they were staying around to wait for the rebels to break down the shield barrier on Endor “We’ve gotta give them more time!- Lando”. So, they really weren’t being destroyed entirely- they could just leave (with some casualties) if push came to shove.

This is a good point.

TheBirdwatcher said:

So, Luke decides to defend himself, but the emperor causes him to doubt and says that it’s inevitable, which causes Luke to finally cave in, despite initially having the confidence that ANYTHING that they did here was pointless because THEY WERE ALL going to die.

Why is this inconsistent? He believed that the rebels were going to win but Palpatine has revealed that it was all a trap and the rebels have no chance, so Luke’s confident mindset has been destroyed.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Also, it’s weird that Luke doesn’t believe that the emperor’s lying to him and that he’s witnessing that destruction happening quickly in outer space. Luke’s usually skeptical of other claims- Luke’s destiny being with Vader and the revelation scene with Vader. While he denies that the emperor would convert him, I am surprised that an emotional conflict [death of the rebels] doesn’t come with more doubt or skepticism from Luke.

Palpatine correctly reveals that he knows the rebels plan and shows Luke that the Death Star is operational, how could this be a lie?

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, Luke tries to kill the emperor [the smart thing because the Emperor sent a command to kill the rebels, in doing so, he is preventing more deaths from occurring], and this is blocked by Vader because the fight is pre-arranged. Apparently, according to The Making of ROTJ book, the emperor would have struck Luke down if Vader hadn’t moved. This begs the question though, how is Luke even a threat to the Emperor (which is why the Emperor was afraid of him in Empire and wanted him as an ally- to prevent himself from being destroyed by Luke) if the Emperor would have struck him down, anyway? And then, the Emperor would have been angry with Vader.

It is not made clear in this film or in ESB whether Palpatine sees Luke as a threat in the here-and-now or if he fears that Luke will become more powerful later on. Perhaps this is a problem but it never really bothered me.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, we have Luke going into his stoic (insane) mode where he proclaims his view [or delusion, since his desire to save Vader is only present in Return. He gave no indication of it in Empire, and he didn’t have a conflict over killing his father or not.] that Vader is good still, which is besides the point; Vader can be both incredibly bad AND good. The horror lies in what Vader has already accomplished (killing most of the Jedi, some of the rebels, Biggs, torturing Han and Leia, etc.).

Luke did not know that Vader was his father until the end of Empire (when he was in no position to kill or save him) and this isn’t confirmed by Yoda until this film. It seems pretty obvious to me that Luke, having been conflicted since the end of ESB, decides in this film to save his father. It’s called character development. As for Vader, yes he’s done horrible things but Luke senses in him a potential for redemption.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, Vader and Luke try to seek each other out. Luke trying to keep his emotions in check is ridiculous, if I must be the first person to say this. In Empire, he didn’t care about his feelings, besides avoiding to hate, and he did so maturely by focusing on the right thing- defending his friends. Honestly, it makes Luke look juvenile when he’s supposed to be a man in this film to have him hiding in the background trying to suppress his feelings. Who cares, honestly?

Then Vader gives Luke a reason to hate, except that this reason is actually poor- it’s Leia may somehow turn to the dark side. Not- “I killed your best friend. I killed the rebels. I tortured Han and Leia. I indirectly killed your aunt and uncle. I killed Obi-wan.”. It’s a vague reason, and the only reason that Luke cares is because he believed that Leia was the only hope for the rebels, even though they could have found someone else who was force-sensitive or else to connect with the force. Even in Final Fantasy XII, where there’s a similar scene, it’s revealing that a death occurred from a specific person.

The point here is that Vader is using Luke’s loyalty to his friends against him.

TheBirdwatcher said:

So, Luke looses it, complete with hell imagery from the red lights on the elevator shaft. Luke’s going dark? Okay. I guess we go all in with this, even though Luke threw himself off of a pillar in Empire to prevent himself from joining Vader and the dark side.

These are two different situations so Luke reacts differently to each one.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Also, Luke tosses his lightsaber away, instead of keeping it, because… he was warned by Yoda to beware of the Emperor’s abilities? Also, did Luke not realize that the Emperor could use/sense the force by knowing his emotions?
In addition, Luke’s tense breathing here indicates danger, so Luke KNOWS that he is doing something risky. Why not keep the lightsaber for safety? Is Luke intending to die here? What is going on?

As you yourself pointed out, Luke went into this confrontation prepared to die as long as he could save his father. Safety it not his concern and his lightsaber, at this point, represents a temptation to strike out in anger.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, the Emperor shocks Luke because Luke is a punk (young fool), apparently, and young fools who defy the Emperor must die. If Luke isn’t that powerful (by rejecting the dark side) why kill Luke, though? Couldn’t you just leave the guy alone? If he’s of not much help by not being of the dark side according to your perspective, why even kill him? If you were confident in DS II destroying ALL OF THE REBEL ALLIANCE, why is Luke even a concern to you?

I think the Emperor is just being sadistic at this point and, again, I assume that he view Luke as a potential future threat.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, Luke begs for Vader to save him (ala begging Obi-wan to save him in Empire). Luke, you made your stand to defy the Emperor, you threw away your lightsaber, did you not expect the Emperor to retaliate or at least send in some guards to hurt you? Why even make your stand (to die) if you’re going to beg Vader to save you?

Luke’s whole motivation in this scene is to save his fathers soul. It’s why he gave himself up in the first place.

TheBirdwatcher said:

The general lack of emotion from Hamill in the bridge scene (with a questionable reliance on head nodding and shaking to convey non-verbal meaning) is hard for the audience to emphasize with. When David Prowse is doing a better job emoting in the Darth Vader suit than Hamill, something is off.

The lack of emotion is intentional because Luke is trying to suppress his emotions. The dark side is all about giving in to your emotions so it makes sense that Vader is more expressive.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Luke acting actively by challenging Vader through generally emotionless gestures and cold, indifferent words likely to “punish” Vader (“Then, my father is truly dead.”) is rather inconsistent with Empire’s ending where Luke was scared by Vader nearly killing him and his emotions at the end- denial- fear, horror, acknowledgement of Vader’s relationship with him. Luke was trying to get away from Vader at the end, when Vader cut off his hand, since he was a threat, now Luke is threatening Vader.

Luke has clearly grown and changed since ESB as has Vader.

TheBirdwatcher said:

When Vader has the opportunity to destroy the Emperor early on when Luke decides to full-on attack the Emperor, he chickens out, even though “Luke’s skills are complete?” Luke is now the foreseen threat to the Emperor, and if we are to take the Emperor seriously at his declaration that Luke will complete his training to the dark side; he was only an act away from the dark side (doesn’t make sense, but if it’s true, then Luke is extremely powerful). Vader: “You don’t know the power of the dark side!” Sometimes the comments are leaning towards favoring the Emperor “It is pointless to resist, my son.” [i.e. The emperor’s offer to the dark side] “The emperor is your master now”.

Vader no longer wants to rule the galaxy with Luke and/or he doesn’t believe they can other-throw the Emperor any more. It seems likely that finding his son, along with Luke’s continual refusal to join him, has rekindled Anakin’s humanity in some way. The fact that the emperor foresaw (seemingly) the events which brought he and Luke to this juncture seems to preclude the possibility that he can be defeated, at least at this moment.

Post
#1391837
Topic
I don't think Revenge Of The Sith is as good as everyone says it is.
Time

PressFireToPlay said:

I want to enjoy it I really do and there are good moments but time hasn’t been kind. Plus with Vader murdering a load of Jedi kids…being a parent myself it kinda makes his redemption touch to acknowledge now. So don’t bother with the prequels if I can help it.

He’s a party to mass murder on a planetary scale in the OT, you can’t really get any lower then that.

Post
#1390817
Topic
Why I Love Prequel Yoda (and what I think people get wrong)
Time

SparkySywer said:

G&G-Fan said:

Remember when Yoda said “Wars not make one great” in Empire Strikes Back? He learned that from the Clone Wars.

It’s only through the teachings of Qui-Gon, who became his master after Revenge of the Sith and was basically the perfect Jedi, even if nobody could see it, was Yoda able to grow into the character he is in Empire Strikes Back.

I’d find this a lot more compelling if this was an actual plot thread in the prequels, instead of something people just inferred from a bunch of EU media.

When Yoda says this in Empire, it’s not hard to imagine he’s saying this from firsthand experience. But in the prequels, that’s really not what’s portrayed. Yoda has no character arc where he learns the horrors of war. If it’s true that he learned this through Qui-Gon, you gotta remember that this is entirely off-screen, after the credits roll in Episode 3.

It is a plot thread in the prequels. It is clear by the end of ROTS that the war was a mistake, given that Palpatine engineered the whole thing for his own ends, and it lead to the near extinction of the Jedi order. Yoda obviously recognizes this and learns from it as his open admission that he’s failed and his exiling himself to Dagobah bears out.

Post
#1390549
Topic
Lucas' Inspirations for Star Wars
Time

Tobar said:

Loving this thread. A couple years ago I was really into researching the various inspirations for Star Wars, sadly I’ve forgotten a lot of it. I did end up adding the Lensman series to my reading list but have yet to get around to it. Coincidentally, last night I think I might have stumbled something. I was browsing around Netflix when I came across High Noon and this image came up:

Lucas was definitely inspired by westerns. The Searchers, in particular, had a clear influence on both Star Wars and Attack of the Clones.