suspiciouscoffee said:
darth_ender said:
With the extended version in place, what do people hate about this movie? I enjoyed it so thoroughly, I can’t understand the extent of the trashing!
Ok, don’t get me wrong, it’s not perfect, but it was pretty dang good, particularly with the added scenes.
When I first saw the film, I thought as you do. However, for a while, one line of dialogue was burned into my mind. It was something Superman said to Lois, “No one stays good in this world.” In this moment, Superman, champion of the world and most beloved hero of mine since I was very young, gives up on humanity. He just. Gives. Up. And declares humans as a waste of his time.
Thank you for the excellent reply. Let me share with you why I don’t find these things bothersome. First of all, I like flawed heroes. I like the internal conflict. Also, I have not read much of the comics. Most of my exposure has been through the cartoons or movies. There are different iterations with different abilities or thoughts. So let me address the above point: “No one stays good in this world.” He is in a truly difficult moral dilemma. He wants to save his mother, and only sees one way. Is he truly evil? No. He just knows if he does this, he will have crossed a line, and that regardless of how good he tries to be, he will be seen as evil in the eyes of the public.
I see Luthor much like the Joker in TDK. They both try to break the hero with impossible moral dilemmas. Personally, seeing the inability to solve the dilemma made the story interesting to me. All along, he sees Batman as a vigilante, little better than the criminals he fights. He has already developed a strong opinion about Batman’s flaws. If he has to kill an evil crime fighter to save his mother, he feels he is choosing the lesser of two evils, but he knows he will be branded for life.
After a little while, I realized something else: he already had long before this scene. The very first thing he does on screen is murder someone. Did the victim threaten his girlfriend? Yes, but what should Superman do? Something like this:
But instead, he decides to crush the man’s body through solid walls, giving an eerie smile before he does, as if he derives a sadistic pleasure from killing this man.
His smile was not sadistic. It was a reassurance to Lois that all would be well. Should he have snatched the gun as you have shown in your picture? Yes, that probably would have been better, especially to sell the narrative that I am pushing above. That said, the ability to fly fast it one direction is one thing. The ability to instantaneously change directions and fly back would be extremely difficult. Yes, we are talking about Superman, but perhaps in this reality, it is not possible. I see it that he had little choice. I wish they had chosen to do what you describe, but more for the movie’s consistency that for Superman’s perfect morality. But if we just view it as a matter of morality, this Superman is young and inexperienced. He killed how many in Man of Steel while fighting Zod and the gang? But he is developing his moral compass and his abilities, and perhaps this movie is the catalyst that helps him develop his rule of no killing.
Later, Superman is seen saving people from various disasters. When he takes a girl from a fire, he glares menacingly at the crowd around him. He treats every good deed he does, everything that Superman should do, as a chore. There is no heart in it, no humanity, but murder? That is something that Superman apparently can get pleasure from now.
That’s not at all how I saw it. He was depressed and disappointed at his failure to save them, that so many were injured right under his nose. He was emotional and flew away in sadness and with the knowledge that everyone was judging him for his failure.
Superman is dead in this movie, but Doomsday didn’t kill him. Superman was already dead. We have, in his place, a coward. We have a brutalistic tyrant in his place.
This is why Batman wanted to kill him. He is a flawed hero, who I see as on a learning curve. I see a similar flaw with Batman, except at the other end of the curve. Instead of being an idealist, he is now a cynical, old figher. He used to have a no-kill rule. He used to disable, but not maim his opponents. But years of fighting and bitterness have turned him into a ruthless killer. He really is little better than the bad guys. This is why Superman wants to kill him.
So here we are, with two very flawed heroes, both perceiving the other as dangerous and evil. Only through their fight do they realize their own flaws, and hopefully make plans to improve their methods. Yes, I know Batman killed some more after this fight, but I believe he will reform his ways and return to a nobler ideal. At least, that is my hope with this movie.
There’s a comic story where Superman meets some new superhumans that call themselves The Elite. They’re mean, and resort to murder often. However, they quickly become popular among the people for getting the job done. Where Superman has those pesky morals that get in the way of dealing with villains permanently, The Elite are seen as the true heroes for the modern world. Superman, sick of the actions of The Elite, decides to face them, and The Elite set up a fight to the death between them and Supes. It’s off Earth, but The Elite have cameras broadcasting it to the world below. Suddenly, Superman’s not holding back anymore, and eventually all except the leader, Manchester Black, is seemingly dead. Black is terrified, and so are the people of Earth. Superman is a murderer now. Black exclaims that Superman is a hypocrite, and that now the people have seen his lies. Superman then says that he knows that everyone saw it, and they were scared. They saw Superman kill without mercy and were shocked. It is then that Superman reveals that he didn’t kill anyone. The Elite are all alive, knocked out, with broken bones and headaches, but alive.
Black then yells at Superman that he’s living in a foolish dream world. Supes’ reply was this:
Superman. Not a killer, like that movie would have you think, but a hero.
EDIT: If you like the movie, that’s fine. I’m just a geek who reads too many comics.
I actually love your comment, so no apology needed. Thank you for the insight. I think it’s a great demonstration of how Superman could be, and explains why probably many were so disappointed. I personally enjoyed his flaws, but I totally understand the reason for disliking them and preferring the more perfect Superman.
