darth_ender

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Redhead

yhwx said:

Steve Miller is still in the White House, and he’s no Panaka either.

Well, not everyone can be.

But it would bring more diversity to this administration!

That Storm Trooper Is Fluuuuuupped

I wanted to make a statement about white privilege and its use to justify the behaviors of others. White privilege is a real thing, but I also think it is taken to an extreme. Racism is a pernicious evil in any iteration, but it is also an inescapable fact that virtually everyone who posts on this forum likely holds at least some racial prejudice. Since whites still generally hold the majority of the nation’s power, minorities still suffer from some unfortunate aspects of white privilege.

That said, it is not a universal situation, nor is it an excuse. I find it hard to believe that anyone here who justifies the wrongs of a member of a minority would believe that that individual is somehow inferior to whites. Yet, when you justify those actions, you are in fact dropping the average level of dialogue. You are lowering your expectations of minorities.

For instance, I may say that I do not approve of Malcolm X’s methods or the Black Panthers. I may say that I do not approve of racist comments by “Reverend” Jeremiah Wright. I may say that I think there is a certain amount of oversensitivity on certain topics, such as selling football players (of all races) on a fantasy football game. Yet, I have no say on these things because of white privilege. How does this argument elevate the level of dialogue. How does lowering the expectations of blacks (or Latinos, or Asians, or women, or LGBT) so that they actually are pardoned for glaring offenses, while I as a white man would be condemned for often unintentional mistakes, promote a nation of equality.

Really, pardoning such behaviors only furthers racial strain. It convinces black people to see malicious intent in even the benign, which decreases dialogue. It holds people to different standards, and people only live up to (or down to) what you expect of them. In other words, in the interest of racial equality and my love towards minorities, I am actually admitting that I expect less from members of a minority! It fosters feelings of unfairness among many whites. And yes, if a white man is insecure, he must be racist, I know, but the reality is not truly so simple. However, there are varying degrees of racism, and holding people to different standards will only drive those who may be on the fence on their racist views deeper into them.

Regardless of the extent of white privilege, we should never (or perhaps seldom, since only Sith deal in absolutes) hold whites and blacks to different levels of expectations. If we do, we prolong the divide. If we hold the same expectations, blacks (whom we all agree are equal to whites) will rise to meet those standards. Whites will come to see the equality and recognize it more. Instead of ostracizing those who fail to see the equal value, we give opportunities for all sides to come together and recognize the value on their own.

Whites are not genetically more prone to racism. Blacks are not somehow immune to it. We must fight it in all its forms and from all sources. Otherwise, those who claim to advocate for equality only continue to perpetuate inequality.

CatBus said:

darth_ender said:

I’m going to probably really get it for this, but I’m going to say it anyway.

Not everyone that upholds Confederate leaders or their statues is in favor of slavery, white supremacy, or racism of any kind. I served my mission in Atlanta, GA, and there were many people who idolized the leadership of the Confederacy and minimizing the slavery aspect.

You see, I believe that a large part of people’s unwillingness to let go of that side of history is due to the very nature of the Civil War and its loss. Sociology is an interesting thing, and people often shape their self-image based on complex factors. After the loss of the Civil War, people had to reshape their thinking. It was a crushing blow to their self-image. As those states were restructuring their laws, economy, and moral outlook, people had to adopt different means of accepting the loss of the War. The South has a very distinct culture, and that loss was a threat to their own culture. Over time, many came to accept that slavery and racism were wrong, but adopted a view that the Civil War was about much bigger things than that, and that slavery was merely a secondary issue. As with any nation’s or culture’s history, a certain amount of apologetics and whitewashing go into it in order to avoid the psychological dissonance one feels of being part of something unethical. Remember, many Germans should have known that their own Third Reich was engaged in an unjust and evil war with accompanying horrors, but they turned a blind eye because they could not believe that they could engage in something so immoral.

My point to this is that there may be good qualities to many Confederate leaders. There are many good qualities of Southerners who uphold them as idols.

BUT

What they and we need to understand is that there really was an evil issue at the heart of the CSA. We need to be understanding of their cultural identity as it is so wrapped up in the good of that short-lived nation. We do need to remove those statues and flags from places of prominence. However, we must do so with respect and with accompanying education so that the people whose identities are threatened understand the true nature of the Confederate cause. This will avoid violent situations and will result in a better educated, and possibly less resentful and racist, nation. When you rip down a deeply ingrained cultural icon, sometimes all it does is validate certain misguided beliefs.

While I disagree with a few points of this*, I’d like to add more nuance to the counter-argument than you’ll typically find. The easy counter-argument is: the Germans as a whole eventually owned up to their terrible past, didn’t whitewash nearly as much as we still do, and came out of this truthful soul-searching a decent people with a strong sense of national identity in spite of their history. The nuance: more in the West than the East. You see, Nazism is on the rise in Germany as well, but it’s far more prevalent in the East. I blame the Marshall Plan. The Marshall Plan jump-started a period of enormous prosperity in Germany, but only in West Germany. Nazism thrives on the fabrication of a distant past golden age, and the West was simply too prosperous for many to look beyond the present. The East on the other hand jumped from hardship to hardship, and imagining that things were better in the past was an easier thing to swallow.

As I said, culture is a complex thing. German identity is not what it used to be. National socialism was so much about national identity that your self worth was swallowed up in the greater good of the fatherland. Your wants and needs are secondary and your value depends entirely on your contribution to the well-being of the Reich. The development of European integration was a major step in reducing future war after the devastation caused by extreme nationalism through the centuries, climaxing in WWI and WWII. Today, the German identity is rather weak, especially compared to the Germany of the past, and has in a sense been replaced with trans-European identity.

Acceptance of the wrongs of the nation and the push for a broader unity allowed for the German people as a whole to adapt to loss of the war. On top of that, many in Nazi Germany were unaware of the full scope of the horrors the Nazis were inflicting upon the Jews, Roma, and other minorities or undesirables. The sudden revelation of such evil (as opposed to acclamation over time) jolted many into recognizing the errors in that policy, and the nation as a whole rejected that ideology.

In the South, I believe the situation was ripe for a different means of trying to cope with the loss of the Civil War and realization of the wrongs of their cause. The entire populace knew that they were engaging in slavery. Even after its fall and the subsequent economic upheaval, people clung the ideas of black inferiority because they never had been taught differently. It took a lot longer for it to sink in that, yes, the Confederate cause was wrong. Out of this realization grew a desire to justify the existence of Southern culture. “We couldn’t have been all wrong, could we? There must have been some nobility to our cause!” Thus the Lost Cause movement was born.

I’d also like to strongly agree that the South has a very distinct identity from the rest of the nation. It also extends beyond the historical boundaries of the Confederacy–I’d say the portions of the Voting Rights Act that were recently excised probably form a much more accurate boundary, sometimes going very far north indeed. The so-called melting pot bubbles a lot less in this part of the country. The idea of waves of immigrants bringing prosperity is something they read about happening elsewhere, with suspicion. The history of military victories starting with the Revolution and only failing in Vietnam was nonsense – the South has been losing battles far longer than that, what was one more defeat to add to the pile?

You bring up a good point here. There has always existed greater cultural homogeneity in the South, as it has always been a place of less exposure to outside influence and less immigration. As such, I am certain it has taken longer to adapt to the notion of right and wrong in terms of race and ethnicity. Bear in mind that it is human nature to be suspicious of anything unfamiliar. If you grew up in an all-white family in an all-white neighborhood in an all-white city where education was geared towards whites, then you would likely be racist when encountering blacks for the first time. So yes, the South has taken longer to adapt to tolerance that much of the rest of the nation has already adopted.

That said, I do not believe those statues and flags necessarily mean that everyone who adores them wishes to maintain a nation of white superiority. I feel that, in most cases, they are simply ignorant to the offense it may cause, instead clinging to the pseudo-religious yearnings of a regional (not necessarily racial) identity they are afraid of losing.

Taken in combination, I think the South needs a Marshall Plan. They may take it as a second Reconstruction, and I suppose in many ways it could be fairly called that. But the point is that as long as so much of the South is left out of economic prosperity, the past will keep beckoning, as it does in the former East Germany. But this is only part one – the Democrats pulled this off already once before with the upper midwest, using unions as the foothold to prosperity, which for a time overrode the inherent racism there. The problem is, like good socialists (and I include myself as a self-critical member of that group), they thought that once they solved the economic problem, the racial problem would solve itself. And that was baloney.

A Marshall Plan for the South…A Second Reconstruction…It’s an interesting idea, but not one I’m certain I can get behind. Bear in mind that there are some very wealthy people in the South, and much of the poverty is in fact among the black population. When I lived there, I saw a great deal of prosperity, especially among the whites. I feel a Second Reconstruction could be overall beneficial, but it would still leave the large disparities in socioeconomic and racial groups. Perhaps an economic plan that fosters independence, investment, and changes in behavior instead of simply investment in infrastructure. I just took a class on how certain economic programs find greater lasting benefit when they target only the poorest and change behavior, rather than simply throwing funding at social programs. They are both more fiscally responsible and find greater lasting change.

* Specifically, I’d say that at some point, self-delusion and denial adds up to effectively justifying slavery, white supremacy, and racism (because turning a blind eye to the past is not so much different than turning a blind eye to the present, and the motivations can be similar). And I’d add there’s more going on than self-delusion and denial in many or even most cases, such as our current Attorney General, who is a Confederate-botherer of the first order.

I don’t disagree there is a great deal of self-delusion. I am saying that such is not always malicious in intent, even if the consequences may be more serious than recognized by the deluded (i.e. allowing Confederate statues to remain for historical value also gives further justification to those who in fact still support the CSA’s true primary cause).

CatBus said:

darth_ender said:

Think of the benefit of losing Bannon. This could be a way for Trump to lose his alt-right support, without which he has no hope of reelection. I doubt he would govern differently without it, but it also could be an opportunity for Republicans in Congress to throw him off without worrying about their own base. Really, this is a very good thing!

You are very hopeful. I think despite all the commentary that Trump shot himself in the foot over Charlottesville, that man is nothing if not showbiz, and he knows his base. If reports are accurate on this matter, he was planning to put Bannon back into running his propaganda network full-time before Charlottesville so that Bannon could keep pushing the Nazi storyline without becoming the story himself. But Trump couldn’t lose Bannon without losing the Nazis, because he’s been coy about his own leanings. So he arranged a “yes, Trump’s a Nazi just like you” news cycle week so that when Bannon left, the Nazis would stay. He could have done this no matter what happened in Charlottesville, just with non-sequiturs about Washington and Jefferson. It worked, and they’re staying.

I don’t know. The ousting of Bannon was not on friendly terms, and I have a hard time believing it was part of some grander scheme to solidify the president’s already solid alt-right base. It certainly does nothing for those who are more moderate. Bannon appears to be pretty upset with this whole business, and if the recent Breitbart headlines are anything to go by, Bannon may actually turn Breitbart readers away from President Trump. Even if only a fraction give up supporting him, it will truly hurt his numbers and his future political prospects.

WAF?!?!

Think of the benefit of losing Bannon. This could be a way for Trump to lose his alt-right support, without which he has no hope of reelection. I doubt he would govern differently without it, but it also could be an opportunity for Republicans in Congress to throw him off without worrying about their own base. Really, this is a very good thing!

darthrush said:

Was in the 100% range by chance because the family was on a roadtrip and we parked at a great spot to see it.

I must say that it was one of the coolest things I’ve seen in a long time. Really blew my mind being able to see it happen in the flesh.

More dirty talk! So it wasn’t just your eyes that were naked, eh? For shame!

Well, I did misread what I thought you had described as having tremors (now I see that you’ve NEVER…had tremors). Still, there is a high risk of DTs were you to go without drinking, judging by how much you currently consume.

https://www.mdcalc.com/audit-c-alcohol-use

Warbler said:

Which quote was in their signatures?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

I’m going to probably really get it for this, but I’m going to say it anyway.

Not everyone that upholds Confederate leaders or their statues is in favor of slavery, white supremacy, or racism of any kind. I served my mission in Atlanta, GA, and there were many people who idolized the leadership of the Confederacy and minimizing the slavery aspect.

You see, I believe that a large part of people’s unwillingness to let go of that side of history is due to the very nature of the Civil War and its loss. Sociology is an interesting thing, and people often shape their self-image based on complex factors. After the loss of the Civil War, people had to reshape their thinking. It was a crushing blow to their self-image. As those states were restructuring their laws, economy, and moral outlook, people had to adopt different means of accepting the loss of the War. The South has a very distinct culture, and that loss was a threat to their own culture. Over time, many came to accept that slavery and racism were wrong, but adopted a view that the Civil War was about much bigger things than that, and that slavery was merely a secondary issue. As with any nation’s or culture’s history, a certain amount of apologetics and whitewashing go into it in order to avoid the psychological dissonance one feels of being part of something unethical. Remember, many Germans should have known that their own Third Reich was engaged in an unjust and evil war with accompanying horrors, but they turned a blind eye because they could not believe that they could engage in something so immoral.

My point to this is that there may be good qualities to many Confederate leaders. There are many good qualities of Southerners who uphold them as idols.

BUT

What they and we need to understand is that there really was an evil issue at the heart of the CSA. We need to be understanding of their cultural identity as it is so wrapped up in the good of that short-lived nation. We do need to remove those statues and flags from places of prominence. However, we must do so with respect and with accompanying education so that the people whose identities are threatened understand the true nature of the Confederate cause. This will avoid violent situations and will result in a better educated, and possibly less resentful and racist, nation. When you rip down a deeply ingrained cultural icon, sometimes all it does is validate certain misguided beliefs.

Warbler said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

Warbler said:

Evelyn Beatrice Hall said:

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Edmund Burke said:

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Perhaps that is what they thought just before they turned the hoses on MLK.

You know, I mentioned some time back that we had a temporary psychiatrist on my floor who, we learned only after he departed, was a white supremacist. I did some serious Internet stalking after that, and found he was associated with white supremacy forums. Oddly enough, this very quote was in some of their signatures. It was truly a sad misuse of noble words.

That sounds like DTs, not just anxiety.

Possessed said:

Can’t just quit. Could be deadly. Can’t afford to go through medical detox again. For a while anyway. I’ve tried to taper off but every time I start to make progress something happens in my life and I feel like my nerves are going to go crazy if I don’t resume normal drinking (which is something I would just deal with if I weren’t worried that intense nerves + alcohol withdrawal might bring my vitals to the edge of danger) so every time I make progress it goes down the toilet. I suppose I could just keep trying to taper, and even if it doesn’t work the reduced drinking for the limited time will at least give my body a little rest.

If I were you, I would cut down in my work, get Medicaid, and seek help. You truly need substance abuse therapy. Maybe the inpatient thing didn’t work out for you (largely because of cost, which I believe). But you need help, and sadly, behavioral health/substance abuse services are most beneficial for the poor and rich. The middle class get stuck with high medical bills. Seriously, your health is more important than your work. There are better jobs out there than management at Wal-Mart. Perhaps you can even take a leave of absence for a while as you get your health back. But you truly need help, and you shouldn’t let the cost deter you. You should do what it takes to get that help.

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

Maybe what you need to do with your parents is see if you get to a point with them where the both of you and agree to disagree about religion. If that is possible.

From what I understand of his situation, that won’t happen. I know that not all Mormons are like this, but their households and communities are notorious for ostracizing people that walk away from the faith more so than any other religion in America. I’ve personally seen it happen to people I know.

As TV’s Frink would say, “Source?”

Yes, I know it happens. It happens with lots of religions. It even happens when atheists turn religious, though the switch is usually the other way around. I’d like to see some statistics that make Mormons so much more notorious for this than other religions.

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

Honestly mfm, based on your posts about friends and relationships in this thread, you need professional help as well.

So I’m told. I don’t trust them though; they’ll probably just try to medicate me. Which I don’t need.

I hate to say it because I genuinely like you, but your advice and your perception and solutions to your own problems kinda stink in many cases. I hate to be rude, but you really seem to put yourself into a self-inflicted prison where you’ve hung the key up easily within reach, but refuse to grab it. Your advice often is of the sort that will also imprison others as well.

I feel that your thinking is based on very quick decisions and assumptions. “I know lots of Mormons and they’re all this way.” “Making friends is not worth it so I isolate, and now I’m depressed because I’m lonely.” “I don’t want to seek help because they’ll just force me to do something I don’t want to do.” Well, it sounds like you know the answer, and the answer is that there is no good answer. I’ve seen it in the politics thread too, and this is coming from a fellow conservative. You draw conclusions based on too little information and are inflexible in your thinking from then on. It hurts you, and I’m afraid your advice might hurt others as well.

ChainsawAsh said:

darthrush said:

I have been getting shitfaced drunk a lot now and noticed that I will tremble a lot if I miss a day or two

This is a huge red flag. Tremors are a symptom of withdrawal, which means you already have a physical dependence, and it sounds like you have a psychological dependence as well. Stop drinking now, while you can without massive health and mental consequences.

This is true. It often requires medical attention to successfully quit, with a taper of an anti-convulsant, usually a benzodiazepine like Ativan or Valium. Without this, you can go into a seizure. Worst case scenario is death. Get medical help.

suspiciouscoffee said:

^ Agreed. I love my family, but I spent most of the summer away from home, and it was the best experience of my life. That, and the fact that my mom got pissed when I made a “mediocre” 91% in precalculus last year keep me motivated to get good grades. Not that it really matters for me, I’m probably gonna screw up somewhere in college, drop out and/or kill myself in a few years at most.

Anyway, that’s enough rambling from me. Keep those grades up, kid.

To me, the advice and comments coming out of this thread are frightening and shortsighted. Yes, it sounds like your parents are overbearing. However, you need to bear in mind that there is a life beyond age 18. There is life outside of high school, and it may not even be college. Do what you want with your life. Find your ambition. I do believe schooling is the best way to go for most people, but really, it’s your life and your parents can’t dictate it. Though they may be overbearing, I am pretty certain (91% to be exact) that they are motivated by a deep love for you and a desire for your lifelong success.

I suggest you let yourself live up to lower standards. Aim as high as you can, but if you fall short, you still can call it a success. Failure is, in fact, an option. It’s not even a bad option. Failure can lead to greater success. Believe me, in a few days, you will probably here me spout off a find example of using my personal failures to hopefully find greater success. I’m in a very stressful time at work right now as well. I have failed at something. But my unit and I will pull through and make a greater success out of it.

Suicide is the never, ever the answer.

The Benefits of Failure

Really, it’s okay to fail. Never forget that.

moviefreakedmind said:

Your 4.0 GPA is your best option for getting as far away from your family as possible.

He doesn’t have to maintain a stellar GPA to get away. There are many good schools that will accept him with his imperfect GPA. He can even pursue a career in something non-academic. He can join the military, for instance. He can do what he wants with his life. I see no reason to encourage alienation from parents who obviously care about him.

darthrush said:

I don’t know if this is the right thread but I think it is…oh well…here it is:

This past summer, things with both my friends and family have been crashing and burning. On one hand, I had hung out with a girl everyday for a month straight, became best friends with her, grew super close to her and her family. Short story; I didn’t have the confidence to make a move despite how obviuos it was that she liked me. She eventually just moved on and started dating someone else. I ended up losing all of my previous friends because I had hung out with this girl a lot and she was popular and had some past issues with one of my old friends.

My family and I have a really tense relationship because of how open I am becoming about my beliefs when it comes to religion and God. They are obviously getting shaken to their cores, and there have been some emotionally distressful arguments that got really personal. They just began attacking nothing but my character and my lack of respect for God.

This next year I have some serious academic challenges that I took upon myself with my classes and I feel almost no motivation to maintain my 4.0 for the last two years of highschool. I just am not seeming to care as much when my family will eventually disown me and I am starting to isolate myself from everyone.

In response to all of this I think I maybe made a mistake. I’ve done my fair share of pot before but never felt the need to come back to it and could go weeks without it. It just made everything a little funner and cooler. After a rough summer I decided to switch it up and get some booze instead for the first time.

And after a few nights of it, I feel like it is affecting me a lot differently than pot. Pot would just be an enhancement of reality, whereas when I get drunk I just feel like I can escape. And after every night, the next day I would just think about doing it more. This never happened with pot. And when I start drinking I can’t seem to stop. I have been getting shitfaced drunk a lot now and noticed that I will tremble a lot if I miss a day or two, and I really look forward to my evenings of escape like nothing else in my life. It seemed like the solution but I am scared that I am falling in a trap and risking future addiction. It’s just so much different than weed. When I say that the whiskey will just make me forget about all my problems and shortcomings, it couldn’t be more true. And when I’m sober, it is all I can think about. My shortcomings and failures and problems that I am having with friends and family. Alcohol just takes me away from it all. It’s so blissful and even being gone for a week for a family vacation sounds like hell cause I won’t be able to drink for a full week. I just don’t know right now. And the more I freak out about this stuff, the more I drink.

I wish I could help you more. I know my advice probably isn’t much appreciated in this regard because of my perspective, so I will just try to keep it more straightforward and less Mormon-y.

Alcohol is a very dangerous substance. Why it is legal and marijuana illegal (not always, but you get the idea) is bizarre to me. My guess is the more widespread recreational use is the real reason. That said, detoxification can be very dangerous and even lethal without assistance. You are going through some very difficult identity crises, that much is evident to any objective observer. Dealing with it by using drugs or alcohol will ultimately worsen you. First, your health will suffer. Second, you learn that the way to cope with life’s stressors is to use a substance rather than coping skills. Life is hard, but it can be managed with good coping skills and interpersonal support. I suspect you feel alienated from your parents right now, but if I were to take a non-moviefreakedmind guess, I believe your parents love you and will do their best to support you, even if you do differ with them on religion. Talk to them about your substance abuse issues and your stress. Let them know that you love them and want to maintain a lasting relationship, regardless of differences on religion. Ask them for help with alcohol and drugs, because I think you can both find common ground on the desire to help you get away from that.

I know you feel frustrated with their efforts to retain you in the faith. Be patient with them and don’t judge them for doing what they feel is right. Accept the help you want and gracefully decline the help you don’t want, and hopefully you can work through your addictions and maintain a friendly relationship with your parents.

Now I can’t help but think of eyeballs with boobs hanging out, nipples and all!

Hey, Warbler. Nothing I can say will make it better. Just know that we’re here for you.

Alderaan said:

pleasehello said:

You know, the one that doesn’t completely rely on my foreknowledge of the other Star Wars films in order to be coherent.

The rehashes they made weren’t even remotely coherent.

I hear there are other franchises that could use more “fans” who have nothing positive to say about the franchise they supposedly love.

imperialscum said:

pleasehello said:

Still waiting for that “standalone” Star Wars film to be announced.

I think we will be waiting for a while.

I think we’ll see that “standalone” movie sooner than we see something useful posted from your keyboard.