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darkhelmet

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23-Apr-2006
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21-Jul-2015
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Post
#294084
Topic
Prequel Trilogy - Sagafied (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/294084/action/topic#294084
Time
I think you're on to something there! Can't wait to see what you do with that.

I'm downloading the 2nd clip now, and I'll check it out soon.

Edit: I was replying when I had some kind of power surge that made things flicker. Thought evrything was okay, and, then my computer shut down. I'm typing on my roommate's computer right now, because I couldn't get my wireless conection to come back up. I blame mynocks.

So, I watched the second clip, and I continue to love how much better of a character the dialogue replacement makes Grievous! Your cut of the duel is better, too. I especially like how you don't allow for the same kind of shot for both of G's hands getting cut off. That always hit me as bad filmmaking. I have some critiques if you will indulge me (if you won't, then just skip the rest ):

1) Though the insert shot cuts in beautifully (aside from the absence of Obi-wan's cloak), Obi-wan's ignition of his lightsaber for his ride up the cliff and the subsequent shut-off doesn't really seem to have any motivation behind it. He knows where Grievous is, but he hasn't decided on his tactic yet as evidenced by his thoughtfulness before he decides to jump down to face him.

2) Is there more dialogue for the Separatists which could be used? It seems odd that their voices are unintelligible while Grievous' is not. Maybe some subtitles? Not sure how that would play against Grievous's response in English, err, Basic, though.

3) Grievous's line "Mine" sounds a bit off, I think due to the difference in background tone. If you layered in some silence from your new Grievous source, it would probably play the difference down.

4) The shot where G's hand and a lightsaber is seen falling to the deck below him seemed to be trimmed too short.

5) Oh, yeah! ALmost forgot the lizard (I wish I could). Nice job with the new noises instead of the yelps. Can I put in a request for even less yelps?
Post
#293990
Topic
Prequel Trilogy - Sagafied (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293990/action/topic#293990
Time
Glad to see you post, Tome! I haven't been able to download clip 2 yet due to Rapidshare's download limits, but clip 1 is very encouraging. I think the first greeting from Grievous to Sidious could be cut since Grievous pretty much repeats himself after Sidious acknowledges him; it also makes it seem like Sidious didn't hear him the first time.

I like the voice change. Since we don't get the info on Dooku's sacrifice here and lose the strong connection between this scene and the bridge scene, maybe a stronger connection with your bridge fight edit could be made by having Grievous use a line like "At last" when Anakin and Obi-wan first enter the bridge (if such a line exists)? Make it seem like there is a larger plan that Grievous is involved with from his very first appearance.
Post
#293988
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293988/action/topic#293988
Time
Originally posted by: Saintheart
Unashamedly doing the 'swords' thing to death: ...The line "Surrender, gentlemen," might be a decent replacement...and still nice and overconfident.
Originally posted by: Marvolo
...it would be great to have him say "surrender, friends".
I think "friends" would work even though I agree with Saintheart on Dooku's character. In light of the rest of the scene, it would play out as manipulative; just like a Sith.
Originally posted by: Saintheart
Dealing with each version of the duel:
Version A:

(1) Point taken. I have an idea for how to remedy this, but I'll need to wait to see how it works in conjunction with my edit of the entire beginning of the movie.
(2) Since I am hoping not to show Palpatine turning around in his chair, this might prove annoying as I would need to use After Effects to remove Anakin and Obi-wan in order to use Palpatine's wide shot for scene establishment.
(3) Point taken.
(4) I see your point about Palpatine. "[W]here Anakin is when Dooku's doing the Force push?" LOL Same question I had in the original cut of the movie. Anyway I've looked at it, Anakin should somehow be in the shot, but he's not. Someone suggested a shadow of him from off-screen? What do you think?
(5) "My impression on viewing Dooku's execution is that Anakin was in cahoots with Palpatine" I can see that, too. I was trying to indicate that Anakin is somehow motivated by Palpatine to kill without the horrid dialogue, whether it was Anakin's own emotional attachment to Palpatine or Palpatine worming his way into Anakin's mind. But audience impression is more important than intent. In light of that, I think GM's "heat-of-the-moment" execution may be best.
(6) Point taken.
(7) Well, thank you. Thank you very much.

Version B:

We'll just pretend this version doesn't exist; how about that?
Post
#293721
Topic
Star Wars: Fall of the Republic
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293721/action/topic#293721
Time
I ditto Taolar for the most part. As an edit for existing fans, it works well; some bumps in the road like the Maul/Jedi duel, but the combining of the movies was done so smoothly (to explain away character hair and costume changes, a simple couple of superimposed titles stating the time which has passed could be used). It was fun to watch. Nice job, Blankfist!
Post
#293708
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293708/action/topic#293708
Time
Thanks, GM. I used the flipped shot originally to make it seem as if the Force push Dooku does to Obi-wan was a bit of revenge for his meddling in Episode II as I had originally cut directly from Dooku's line "I've been looking forward to this".

This also eliminated the awkwardness of the Force push shot since Anakin was nowhere to be seen and not even hinted at though his actions should have placed him the shot's foreground.

The edit stayed the same after I adopted your placement of that line after Dooku's saber ignition, which I liked better. I like the flipped shot still since it removes Obi-wan's slightly clumsy cross-over in the following original saber clashes.

Glad to hear that you like the beginning of the video. I was rather proud of that bit. It's cool what can happen with the exchange of ideas here on the forum.

For Palpatine's facial expressions, maybe it would help to think of his two personas as distinctly separate, a truly evil character acting out his part as a good guy even though the audience knows differently. I'm trying to make his character more subtle in his corruption of Anakin.
Post
#293705
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293705/action/topic#293705
Time
Thanks, Saintheart and GM for the location of "lightsaber" and how it sounds in conjunction with Dooku's actual scene lines. I'm going to keep the change in mind, but I think it's time for me to move on from the Dooku scene.

Anyone have any feedback on my latest fight incarnations ( 1 , 2 )?

EDIT : In my exhausted state last night, I added the wrong version title to each of the edits. v4A should be "seduction, then remorse", and v4B should be "remorse, then seduction".
Post
#293654
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293654/action/topic#293654
Time
GM: I just watched your v2 cut of the Dooku duel again, and I'd like to strike a couple of my criticisms from the record. I guess I wasn't removed enough from an editing perspective to see it purely from an audience perspective.

1)The speed of Dooku's execution really does work well.

2) The quickness of Palpatine's line "It is only natural" following on Anakin's line doesn't sound rushed to my ear anymore.

Overall, I hope I can edit my vision of Episode 3 as well as you've been editing your scenes!
Post
#293613
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293613/action/topic#293613
Time
CC: Nice rotoscope(?) on Dooku's jump. I like that so much more than the original flip.

Erikstormtrooper: Aside from CC's treatment, footsteps are probably the only real option. Any idea where some good ones can be found (or lifted from one of the movies)?

Saintheart: I don't like Dooku's use of "swords" either. Do you know where in Episode II Dooku uses the term "lightsaber"?
Post
#293609
Topic
Star Wars - The Vintage Edit (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293609/action/topic#293609
Time
Sorry to hear that the encoding didn't go as well as you wanted.

I don't know if this would be any help, but I have found that I don't like Adobe Media Encoder. I usually prefer to render out a DV AVI file and then transcode from that to an MPEG2 file via Sorenson Squeeze.

The DV AVI file would be fairly large, and larger of course if you went uncompressed AVI, but maybe the two-step process could yield a better result. Do you have any other encoding software you could try instead of Adobe Media?

Two thoughts on the staircasing in the HD footage: have you tried deselecting "frame blend" or messing with any of the field options for the clips? I know that 1080i footage renders the upper field first whereas 720x480i footage does lower field first.
Post
#293450
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293450/action/topic#293450
Time
Hey, Erik. Long time! Well, I was really just experimenting with the tone of the sequence, but GoodMusician has successfully demonstrated with his tightened duel edits that a darker tone can be achieved while leaving those lines intact. They always came off as "B" film dialogue the way they played in the movie, but GM showed me the light there.

Also (and I hope I can still wear the paper hat), I wasn' t the first to eliminate Dooku's flip, so I can't take the "King" title in good conscience; though I hated the flip someone I don't remember right now made the edit first. GM's edits also made me reconsider whether or not the flip might be able to stay. Check his v2 edit out to see if you don't agree.

I'll probably go with my original gut reaction to the horrible CG mess and still cut it, though.

Post
#293364
Topic
Prequel Trilogy - Sagafied (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293364/action/topic#293364
Time
Originally posted by: TheTome
Second, I've changed [Grievous'] dialog with the Emperor so that it seems he was in cahoots with the whole kill Dooku plan, and even to a degree the end of the separatist leaders (will post clip soon).
It's been a while. Will you post soon? I'd love to see how you do this.

One question for everyone, what did you think of the part where Obi-Wan's fighter gets shot? I had a couple friends who were confused by the next few seconds of footage. Thoughts?

I don't have it right in front of me, but that set of shots really stood out to me in a good way. At first, I was caught off-guard, because it hit me like unreleased footage since it worked so well. It did a lot to bring Anakin and Obi-wan really into the space battle so they didn't seem so insular. That being said, your whole edit of the opening space battle was awe-inspiring in its approach!

Hope you can post soon.

Post
#293361
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293361/action/topic#293361
Time
Originally posted by: GoodMusician
Oh I wasn't meaning it as anything against you... just was saying that was where I was going with it... Whats weird is I think it works fine...perfectly even.. I'll wait a few days, go back and watch it again and see... No problem, GM. It just came off sounding condescending.

heh I do thank you for your input

You're welcome. And thanks for the new ending idea for Obi-wan and Anakin's duel! LOL!

Post
#293292
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293292/action/topic#293292
Time
Hey, GM. I do try to keep previous conversations in mind when I respond. It's not that I didn't understand that you wanted to show Palpatine's corruption of Anakin, but the line cut so tight against Anakin's, and in the non-rushed tone of Palpatine, doesn't sound like he's interrupting; it sounds like a bad edit.

Maybe you could tweak Palpatine's audio to make it sound more like he's interrupting.
Post
#293282
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293282/action/topic#293282
Time
I gotta say that your edit is a definite improvement over the original Dooku duel! I really like what you did with the removal of Anakin's line "I was about to say that" and with Dooku's light saber ignition and subsequent line "I've been waiting for this". Resequencing this shot was an awesome idea!
18) Cut quickly to Anakin jumping at Dooku
This worked flawlessly! The pacing is definitely improved.
19) Cut to the closeup of Anakin and Dooku with dooku's line about hate and anger a little bit early just to push it that much further
I didn't even notice the edit was there, but, BOOM!, Dooku's words were sounding more believable than I've heard them before!

I also really liked how you were able to extend Anakin holding the blades ignited longer by cutting in the shot and line of Palpatine. That was beautiful, though it might seem like a flub in the wider shot where Palpatine's mouth isn't moving. Small price to pay for the improvement, I say.

Your treatment of Palpatine's justification to Anakin is a vast improvement focusing on the revenge aspect and not over-explaining why when we all know what Dooku did to Anakin in Episode II.

I feel that a handful of things didn't work quite as well:
17) I remove a little bit of Anakin sitting around looking at the Obi-Wan and then to Dooku..
For someone seeing the scene for the first time, I think they would probably not know what they had just seen and how it really relates to the surrounding shots, because it goes by so quickly.
21) I speed up the shot of Anakin cutting off Dooku's hands. 22) Cut to Anakin with Dooku's blade 23) cut to a slightly sped up shot of Anakin placing the blades at Dooku's neck

The sequence plays too quickly now. It would definitely work if it had been shot as one fluid set of motions, but it's apparent that Anakin brings the blades to Dooku's neck in a thoughtful way instead of as a flowing finishing move. Maybe you could keep the sped up shots but allow for more of a pause as Anakin considers the man kneeling in front of him, although this does make it a colder, more calculated decision than one made in the heat of a thoughtless moment.
27) As anakin explains he shouldn't have killed dooku, I cut to Palpatine getting out of the chair with Palpatine saying "It is only natural," as if to combat what anakin had to say about the Jedi way.

Palpatine's line follows too closely on Anakin's; it feels rushed in comparison to Palpatine's tone.
28) Cut to a short shot of Anakin reacting.

This didn't feel quite right to me. Maybe just a little more time for the shot would help, or a different part of the shot where Anakin isn't moving as much. Also, Anakin's eyeline doesn't match from this shot to the next; that may be part of it.

Overall, I am still trying for an edit that loses some of the immature dialogue and characterization that Lucas has given us to work with. You've definitely given me some edit choices to consider. Thanks, GM!

P.S. Just watched most of the duel again, and I love the placement of "You wanted revenge"; it fits so perfectly with that shot!
Post
#293186
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293186/action/topic#293186
Time
Hey, GM. Thanks for the feedback. Your analysis of Episode 3 in light of the other two prequel movies is impressive.

What I am attempting to do with the duel is to restore subtlety and maturity to the movie experience. I may not be able to do this if it cuts out vital story elements, but I think the audience can be uneasy with Anakin's choices/actions even if he doesn't seem to be so uneasy.

He hasn't been punished for slaughtering an entire tribe of Sand People, so, I would think it would be conceivable that, in light of his friendship with Obi-wan and his love for Padme, he could slip into a moment in battle like this and still think himself a generally good guy. If the audience doesn't already see Anakin as fallen due to the Episode 2 slaughter, then, at least this moment's indiscretion charts another (major) point in Anakin's fall to the Dark Side.

I'm hoping that removing the Chancellor's overt influence of Anakin makes the Chancellor more sinister in the long run and relieves the scene of a grown warrior being spoken to like a child (for the most part).

Also, I think it starts things rolling in the direction of Palpatine's revelation of himself to Anakin as a Sith Lord, and, perhaps, it makes the seduction more subtle, as this seduction should be. Encouraging someone to act in a particular way is one thing, but to suddenly growl "Do it!" in a unusual voice stretches believability as far as seduction is concerned.

Ultimately, I hope to edit something that will be more of a worthy predecessor to the cinematic maturity of Episode 4. So, the litmus test here is: does my maipulation of the story make the movie more or less cinematic?
Post
#293153
Topic
Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/293153/action/topic#293153
Time
I've been pretty busy over the past couple of weeks, but it looks like things are lively here in the thread! I've incorporated changes to my Dooku duel edit inspired by jedi_jra's breakdown and cbaka's edit of the beheading sequence.

jedi_jra: I didn't sequence the Chancellor's dialogue as suggested since the tone of his voice didn't make sense, but the dialogue is all in there.

cbaka: I trimmed the beheading a little further, eliminating Anakin looking to the Chancellor before he kills Dooku.

Also, I'm eager to hear whether or not people like the intensified duel as I eliminated some dialogue and lucked into some good audio.