dahmage

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Absolutely the scariest thing. Obviously I’m not talking about the immediate threat, but I don’t think there’s much doubt that Kylo brought Luke more pain than Vader (I’m talking emotionally here).

I disagree. Vader in the end of TESB destroyed everything Luke believed in and everything in Luke’s world. He had possibly killed his best friend, told him that his dad was not a hero but a monster, made him see his master were liars, destroyed his base at the beginning of the movie, killed several of his friends… and Luke was a young, immature man (if you compare to what he should’ve been in TLJ).

So I highly doubt that the possible future he saw was worse than this. As selfless as anyone may be, we are always biased towards ourselves.

There’s a big difference between being 20 years old and falling on your ass and learning your dad’s a failure and being 50 years old and facing the possibility that you’re a failure and your life’s work has been meaningless.

yeah, that is what i was getting at with my previous post.

• first failure is hard, but he didn’t actually know his dad, and he was still young and in my mind, unwilling to accept the truth of his dad’s evilness, so he kinda muddled through with the stubborness of youth.
• second failure, brought back the first (which he probably didn’t think of a failure before, because he had won vader over right?), and amplified it, added extra layers of failure. People who think they are right all of the time, fail HARD.

Yes, but here’s the problem. Ben hadn’t really done anything by that point, so there was no reason to assume Luke would not continue to believe he could turn the tide. I can sort of accept your reasoning if Ben had crossed over to the dark side in both thought and action, but just the prospect should not be enough, considering Luke’s experiences.

I don’t think either of us are going to budge on this Dre. 😃

-You see Luke choosing to Kill (even if brief) based on the darkness he felt and pain and suffering he saw coming, as being antithetical to Jedi Master, especially Luke.

-I see Luke failing to control himself (briefly) based on the darkness he felt and the pain and suffering he saw coming, as being a believable break in the spirit of someone who seems to be able to do no wrong, but just failed.

I hope i am being fair to your point of view.

And Kylo’s reaction to this brief moment sealed the fate of the failure. Things were set in motion. Luke couldn’t explain anything, he got knocked out. Kylo destroyed everything and left. Luke knew that Kylo must have assumed Luke died, further cementing lukes belief in his utter failure. so he retreated.

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

From what we see and are told in the movie, apparently Luke didn’t even try to talk to Ben before going to him in his hut. And that’s just insane for me. We’re talking about the guy who surrendered himself to the Empire to have some alone time with Hitler to try to convince him that he’s actually a good guy.

Luke said that he had sensed some of this during their training, but had to be sure. It really doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that you ask someone about as a primary way of discovering the truth.

I respectfully disagree. To me, trust is the basis for any relationship, and not just romantic ones. So yes, Luke should’ve talked to Ben before anything. Talking to him would also trigger several of Ben’s inner thoughts and feelings that Luke would be able to sense, given the subject of their discussion, and because Ben at that point probably didn’t know how to close his mind from a Jedi master.

That assumption that i bolded is yours. i think the opposite, and I think there is enough in the movie to point to Ben having already been under some level of tutelage from Snoke at that point, that yeah, he probably could close his mind to a Jedi master. The other reason to believe that he could close his mind, is because Luke choose to search his feelings while he was asleep, with the obvious to discern reason that he couldn’t do it as well when he wasn’t asleep.

For one Luke already told us, he sensed the darkness, but if that were the case, that Ben was closing his mind, the film should have told us. It’s the basis for good story telling IMO. Just insert a line, where Luke sensed Ben was purposefully hiding his true feelings from Luke, something he shouldn’t be able to do.

Dre i am honestly confused. luke did give us that line, you just said it. so i don’t get what you are saying…

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Absolutely the scariest thing. Obviously I’m not talking about the immediate threat, but I don’t think there’s much doubt that Kylo brought Luke more pain than Vader (I’m talking emotionally here).

I disagree. Vader in the end of TESB destroyed everything Luke believed in and everything in Luke’s world. He had possibly killed his best friend, told him that his dad was not a hero but a monster, made him see his master were liars, destroyed his base at the beginning of the movie, killed several of his friends… and Luke was a young, immature man (if you compare to what he should’ve been in TLJ).

So I highly doubt that the possible future he saw was worse than this. As selfless as anyone may be, we are always biased towards ourselves.

There’s a big difference between being 20 years old and falling on your ass and learning your dad’s a failure and being 50 years old and facing the possibility that you’re a failure and your life’s work has been meaningless.

yeah, that is what i was getting at with my previous post.

• first failure is hard, but he didn’t actually know his dad, and he was still young and in my mind, unwilling to accept the truth of his dad’s evilness, so he kinda muddled through with the stubborness of youth.
• second failure, brought back the first (which he probably didn’t think of a failure before, because he had won vader over right?), and amplified it, added extra layers of failure. People who think they are right all of the time, fail HARD.

Collipso said:

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

From what we see and are told in the movie, apparently Luke didn’t even try to talk to Ben before going to him in his hut. And that’s just insane for me. We’re talking about the guy who surrendered himself to the Empire to have some alone time with Hitler to try to convince him that he’s actually a good guy.

Luke said that he had sensed some of this during their training, but had to be sure. It really doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that you ask someone about as a primary way of discovering the truth.

I respectfully disagree. To me, trust is the basis for any relationship, and not just romantic ones. So yes, Luke should’ve talked to Ben before anything. Talking to him would also trigger several of Ben’s inner thoughts and feelings that Luke would be able to sense, given the subject of their discussion, and because Ben at that point probably didn’t know how to close his mind from a Jedi master.

That assumption that i bolded is yours. i think the opposite, and I think there is enough in the movie to point to Ben having already been under some level of tutelage from Snoke at that point, that yeah, he probably could close his mind to a Jedi master. The other reason to believe that he could close his mind, is because Luke choose to search his feelings while he was asleep, with the obvious to discern reason that he couldn’t do it as well when he wasn’t asleep.

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

From what we see and are told in the movie, apparently Luke didn’t even try to talk to Ben before going to him in his hut. And that’s just insane for me. We’re talking about the guy who surrendered himself to the Empire to have some alone time with Hitler to try to convince him that he’s actually a good guy.

Luke does not go to Ben’s hut to kill him.

Then why did he take his sword in with him?
“only what you take with you” and whatnot.

(I don’t care, just knocking conversation around)

the Jedi is the weapon, so… kinda hard not to take himself right?

:p

oojason said:

I like that

Collipso said:

From what we see and are told in the movie, apparently Luke didn’t even try to talk to Ben before going to him in his hut. And that’s just insane for me. We’re talking about the guy who surrendered himself to the Empire to have some alone time with Hitler to try to convince him that he’s actually a good guy.

Luke said that he had sensed some of this during their training, but had to be sure. It really doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that you ask someone about as a primary way of discovering the truth.

Also, Luke also walked up to Rey and was standing there when she woke up, and said “first lesson at dawn”. Same type of entrance to an apprentices’ dorm.

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

I don’t think “Luke sneaking into his apprentice’s room” is a huge deal to start with. It’s his nephew, it’s not that creepy.

lolwat.

yeah no, i think Dom is right. I don’t know the exact setup of a Jedi training place, but i wouldn’t expect that privacy is a thing that the students expected.

Which would cause you more emotional trauma.

• Father who you never knew and who you thought was dead, and just found out he is this evil man
• Nephew who you knew from birth, and whom your sister (who was with you through all the previous trama about your vader daddy) entrusted to you to train correctly, is a dark dark soul, and you FAILED to save him.

The first one is trauma for sure, but I don’t think it compares at all the the extreme trauma of the second one. The second one brings back the first trauma, and then adds layers and layers of extra trauma on top.

So yeah, Luke was pretty upset that he failed Leah and Klyo.

And i posted this earlier, but there is a good chance i deleted the post. but in my take on things, the luke we saw in the OT was three movies of a young idealistic kid who valued his own take on things above anyone elses. He trusted himself to be right more than he trusted what anyone told him. When these types of people fail, the fail HARD. I am this type of person.

Mrebo said:

dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

I also was disappointed with Han’s and Leia’s characterizations in TFA where both were exactly where they were 40 years ago.

They both were broken people…not the same at all.

Other than that I suppose we’re treading the same old ground again so I’ll drop it…again.

I’m with you, no point going in the same circle.

I’m with you too.

the circle is unbroken 😃

Nevermind

Yes, holding sexist views is unpopular here.

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

I also was disappointed with Han’s and Leia’s characterizations in TFA where both were exactly where they were 40 years ago.

They both were broken people…not the same at all.

Other than that I suppose we’re treading the same old ground again so I’ll drop it…again.

I’m with you, no point going in the same circle.

ChainsawAsh said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I’ve never once heard of anyone reading pdfs for non academic reasons.

I’m a QA lab tech. I read PDFs all the time.

Try to keep up Ash. We no longer care if you read PDFs. Now we care if you try to read PDFs on eBook readers.

Well in

TV’s Frink said:

LordZerome1080 said:

I bumped an eighteen-year old thread.

nothing illegal about that

needs an update

working on a cover.

you are just an oliver twist

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

What is your obsession with Mark Sanchez.

He’s the best Eagle that ever eagled.

huh?

I think he means that he was the best Eagles player.

Preemptive Ric/Mark:

He is nowhere near close to best ever Eagles player.

poor Mark…

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

Well said, ender.

Particularly how certain views take on a popularity that shuts out dissent.

As for ignoring important issues, this caught my eye.

If the Republicans want me to judge them fairly, they need to stop supporting Trump.

ender’s point that I agree with goes far beyond treating Republicans fairly. It’s about debating global warming, net neutrality, religious practices, abortion, feminism, etc. I care about that more than a hang up with a particular politician.

America elected Trump. I have problems with him as you all seem to. But the idea that fairness is dead unless we eject the president from office is absurd.

Sorry but it is the way I feel. I can be fair and debate with you and Ender. But I refuse to be fair and refuse to debate with those that still support Trump. This has nothing to do with whether or not Trump has small hands, whether or not he and his wife share a room, whether or not his Vice President calls his wife “mother”, wears cheap deodorant, or picks his nose. This has to do with Trump being a complete and total disgrace to this nation and its history. Everyone that supports him and everyone that voted for him should be ashamed of themselves. You want to support conservative viewpoints? Fine. You want to support Trump, not fine.

Do you have any friends or family members (who you like) who support Trump? If so, do you tell them how you feel about them?

If I do, I don’t know about it.

you don’t know if you tell them how you feel about them?

JEDIT: oh wait, the other thing.

TV’s Frink said:

You are not my mother, you are a Prong.

That’s weird.

despite the ric response i will get…

https://www.amazon.com/¿Eres-Bright-Early-Board-Spanish/dp/0375815058/

also, we have that book in spanish. Snort! is Prong!

The more you know.

it isn’t a literal translation, at least not in google translate…

TV’s Frink said:

dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I’ve never once heard of anyone reading pdfs for non academic reasons.

Do you know anyone who works?

🔥

I’m sorry your symbol is rejected for being neither square nor penis.

“Fire”

Thanks yhwx. I’d now like you to imagine Ric Olie’s head in the place of Mark’s head.

ALLOL + Snort

You are not my mother, you are a Snort!

damn, can’t select the text in a jpg either… I must be in college.

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I’ve never once heard of anyone reading pdfs for non academic reasons.

Do you know anyone who works?

🔥

I’m sorry your symbol is rejected for being neither square nor penis.

“Fire”

Thanks yhwx. I’d now like you to imagine Ric Olie’s head in the place of Mark’s head.

ALLOL + Snort