chyron8472

TV’s Frink said:

It’s not an hard and fast

That’s what she said.

TV’s Frink said:

oojason said:

An interesting ‘Fact Check’ video on Trump’s recent speech on the Iran deal…

There’s no point in fact checking anything he says anymore though.

chyron8472 said:

hat gold’s value comes from its scar

TV’s Frink said:

I decided to add the :p to indicate I was joking/teasing.

You tease, but I was serious. That’s, in part, why I didn’t want to answer your question about Hell at the time. Because I wasn’t sure you weren’t just making noise. You yourself say that you don’t, and won’t, take this place seriously.

TV’s Frink said:

Or just the mother, the father, and the doctor! :p

I am saying that if she (or they) stand in judgment for it or to an extent are convicted about it, it should be between them and God. Not us.

Also sperm cells are alive, and most of them die on the journey to the egg. And my wife says it is her understanding that up to half of fertilized eggs are miscarried for one reason or other, often because the egg simply did not implant, and without the mother even knowing.

Given that the discussion about abortion seems rather arbitary and complicated, my opinion is that it should be a matter between the mother, the father, the doctor, and God.

moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t think so. The parents never bothered putting in effort to make their child less sickening so we’ll never know for sure but I don’t blame the kid. She was like 3 so I’m blaming the terrible parenting. There’s little that I hate more than parents who decide that since their lives are ruined, everyone else’s lives have to be ruined too.

Whenever I go out to dinner with my daughter, if she throws a fit and cries and fusses I take her outside. She doesn’t do it that often (knock on wood) but I react pretty quickly when it happens because I don’t intend to put up with it.

Okay… coming back to the question Ash (and Frink) wanted me to answer about my opinion of Hell, and how it compares to the traditional view as fire and brimstone.

The truth is: I’m not sure exactly. I do have ideas, but not all of them solid. I do know (and by “know” I mean posit) that as Heaven is eternity in the presence of God, by contrast Hell is eternity apart from it. I am aware that there are personal accounts from people who had (near?) death experiences and came back with descriptions of what Hell is like.

For myself, I kind of figure that a description to us of Hell is similar to the description of the Holy city in Revelation in the sense of trying to describe the indescribable. In Revelation, John talks about the Holy city with descriptions like it having gates made of pearl and streets made of gold. It occurs to me that gold’s value comes from its scarcity, and that for it to be so abundant that the street is literally made from it then cheapens its value. Basically, he’s trying, in so many words, to say the city is indescribably, uncomprehendingly beautiful.

Similarly, in the case of Hell, the experience is indescribably terrible. Whether that comes from separation from God or literal physical torment, I’m not sure. But then, let me explore the meaning of the word “eternity.” God created time and space as it exists in our universe and on this dimensional plane. It occurs to me that time does not have to flow or exist in the same manner on different planes or different universes or whatever. And therefore, to say “eternity” may not mean “for all time”, but rather “is.” Like, if you take where you are at a single point in time, and in that point you are there, if you remove time from the universe, you just exist there in some concept of eternity that just means “is”.

So I don’t know, but I have concepts of what it might be like, none of it good. I don’t believe it means you cease to exist, because the Bible does not suggest that to be true. The Bible does use the word “destruction”, but that is not synonymous with annihilation.

I will answer you, Ash, but again, I’m waiting. It’s a really involved and controversial question, and I’m not really comfortable jumping down the rabbit hole by myself.

Mrebo said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron you were supposedly so desperate for legitimate discussion that you couldn’t stop complaining about me, are you going to ever actually answer the legitimate questions I posed?

I will wait for someone else (who believes) to reply and perhaps add my opinion in response to what they said. I don’t want to be responsible for giving people the opportunity to shoot me down outright with regard to my answer, especially when I’m not even sure the question is genuine.

This response makes your earlier complaints ring quite hollow.

No. 1) I’m not convinced you aren’t trying to stir things up, 2) I’m not concrete on the subject, and 3) it’s not a topic I favor.

I thought we did discuss this topic not long ago.

We did.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron you were supposedly so desperate for legitimate discussion that you couldn’t stop complaining about me, are you going to ever actually answer the legitimate questions I posed?

I will wait for someone else (who believes) to reply and perhaps add my opinion in response to what they said. I don’t want to be responsible for giving people the opportunity to shoot me down outright with regard to my answer, especially when I’m not even sure the question is genuine.

This response makes your earlier complaints ring quite hollow.

No. 1) I’m not convinced you aren’t trying to stir things up, 2) I’m not concrete on the subject, and 3) it’s not a topic I favor.

1. Then ignore me (try it some time, you might like it!) and answer Ash.
2. So take your best guess then. What does your religion teach about it? What you do think is likely?
3. Lol.

Why are you waiting specifically on me to answer?

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

A better comparison would be if there was an American football thread (not an NFL thread) and someone asked questions about and complained about the dangers of football and the problems it causes and why they think it’s bad.

But again, after that point has been made, it doesn’t need to be endlessly revisited from every possible angle in such a way that devolves the tone of the discussion into a toxic mess with no foreseeable resolution.

I’m curious how you’d respond if a devout Scientologist voiced his criticism of Christianity in this thread.

I would be more interested in the Scientologist saying what he himself believed, rather than him telling me why my belief is ridiculous.

But he’d, according to you, have a more vested interest in going against what he’d consider a false religion.

I said that? What I said was, effectively, if someone here was a Muslim, I’d be interested in them talking about what that means to them or in general. And not just minor questions like when did they convert, but deeper things like the nature of God or the universe, or what He’s taught them about themselves, or what certain passages speak to them. I would not be interested in them telling me at length how Christianity is the infidel.

My interest is to limit toxicity, not dissenting opinion.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron you were supposedly so desperate for legitimate discussion that you couldn’t stop complaining about me, are you going to ever actually answer the legitimate questions I posed?

I will wait for someone else (who believes) to reply and perhaps add my opinion in response to what they said. I don’t want to be responsible for giving people the opportunity to shoot me down outright with regard to my answer, especially when I’m not even sure the question is genuine.

This response makes your earlier complaints ring quite hollow.

No. 1) I’m not convinced you aren’t trying to stir things up, 2) I’m not concrete on the subject, and 3) it’s not a topic I favor.

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

A better comparison would be if there was an American football thread (not an NFL thread) and someone asked questions about and complained about the dangers of football and the problems it causes and why they think it’s bad.

But again, after that point has been made, it doesn’t need to be endlessly revisited from every possible angle in such a way that devolves the tone of the discussion into a toxic mess with no foreseeable resolution.

I’m curious how you’d respond if a devout Scientologist voiced his criticism of Christianity in this thread.

I would be more interested in the Scientologist saying what he himself believed, rather than him telling me why my belief is ridiculous.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron you were supposedly so desperate for legitimate discussion that you couldn’t stop complaining about me, are you going to ever actually answer the legitimate questions I posed?

I will wait for someone else (who believes) to reply and perhaps add my opinion in response to what they said. I don’t want to be responsible for giving people the opportunity to shoot me down outright with regard to my answer, especially when I’m not even sure the question is genuine.

Also, my opinion about it is not concrete.

moviefreakedmind said:

A better comparison would be if there was an American football thread (not an NFL thread) and someone asked questions about and complained about the dangers of football and the problems it causes and why they think it’s bad.

But again, after that point has been made, it doesn’t need to be endlessly revisited from every possible angle in such a way that devolves the tone of the discussion into a toxic mess with no foreseeable resolution.

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:
the people whose lives you destroyed don’t matter, all that matters is that you’re sorry. Lovely.

you don’t even really have to be sorry for the people you wronged or society at large.

I don’t think that’s accurate.

Possessed said:

So it’s not mandatory, it’s just necessary? Okay got it thanks.

I think you misunderstand the context. It is necessary if one desires the relationship to grow and deepen in certain meaningful ways. Ways that often aren’t apparent until after the growth has already taken shape.

Going to a church service just to say you went and sacrificed an hour and a half of your time on Sunday like a good person should, is useless to that end and likely does little.

Meanwhile, the act of not regularly going to church does not remove a person from the love of God, nor is that person excommunicated from the community of believers. We are still His children whether we go to church or not.

suspiciouscoffee said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

Church is not required

I’m pretty sure the religions I’m thinking of disagree.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say church is required.

I think it does. I forget where the verse is, but I recall somewhere it saying “do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together.” Seems to imply some sort of congregational fellowship os required, even if the traditional “church” setting is not.

Let me rephrase: Church attendance is not mandatory in order to have a Christian relationship with God.
Fellowship is necessary however, for growth, yes.

I would not want to discourage attendance as it may do some good, and at some point certain wheels might click into place, so to speak. But merely singing a song, speaking liturgy, and warming a seat while dazedly half-listening to a sermon… does very little in terms of fellowshiping with others.

TV’s Frink said:

Hey wait that’s just being banned.

😉

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

The attitude that it’s murder to abort a six-week-old fetus but a person who murdered a fully developed person can completely wipe the slate clean by accepting Jesus is revolting to me.

So you have said.

You might want to get over it.

One wonders why you can not.

My comments are about religion. Yours are about me.

But you don’t believe in religion. You’re just bitching. If you don’t believe, you shouldn’t care. People make judgements and decisions, religion or not, that other people disagree with. Complaining endlessly about how their philosophy makes no sense at some point becomes not much more than trolling.

It’s a discussion forum. I’m discussing the things that bother me about religion, the things that I take personally about religion.

But it’s your choice to take them personally. I would think indifference would be better.

How is this relevant to your original complaint? Now you’re just complaining that I don’t think like you.

How is it relevant that you choose to take religious concepts as personal offense, when they don’t apply to you, instead of choosing to be indifferent and not get bent out of shape? The latter might make you disinclined to bother complaining constantly. You might have more interesting things to talk about and more enlightening things to say about other things that are more worth your time.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

The attitude that it’s murder to abort a six-week-old fetus but a person who murdered a fully developed person can completely wipe the slate clean by accepting Jesus is revolting to me.

So you have said.

You might want to get over it.

One wonders why you can not.

My comments are about religion. Yours are about me.

But you don’t believe in religion. You’re just bitching. If you don’t believe, you shouldn’t care. People make judgements and decisions, religion or not, that other people disagree with. Complaining endlessly about how their philosophy makes no sense at some point becomes not much more than trolling.

It’s a discussion forum. I’m discussing the things that bother me about religion, the things that I take personally about religion.

But it’s your choice to take them personally. I would think indifference would be better.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

Church is not required

I’m pretty sure the religions I’m thinking of disagree.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say church is required.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

The attitude that it’s murder to abort a six-week-old fetus but a person who murdered a fully developed person can completely wipe the slate clean by accepting Jesus is revolting to me.

So you have said.

You might want to get over it.

One wonders why you can not.

My comments are about religion. Yours are about me.

But you don’t believe in religion. You’re just bitching. If you don’t believe, you shouldn’t care. People make judgements and decisions, religion or not, that other people disagree with. Complaining endlessly about how their philosophy makes no sense at some point becomes not much more than trolling.

It’s like hanging out in the NFL thread just to complain at length about how American football is stupid.