captainsolo

This!

Try one or several to see what you like. Keep in mind though that the 2006 DVD is the master used for the 1993/1995 Laserdiscs so that has higher video quality.

As of now, the Dark Jedi GOUT V3 is the most complete and best looking version of the Original Trilogy that does not use any new footage as a source. (By new I mean 2004 transfers and later.) They also include multiple soundtrack options, if you have a preference for one mix over another.

Personally, I use that for ESB and ROTJ, but like the PuggoGrande (16mm transfer) and Technidisc LaserDisc transfer best for the original film as I like the more 70's era look they have.

Last Crusade

Aside from Connery having a ball with Henry Sr., this one is really, really uninspired, tired and even goes to great lengths to shoehorn in so many winning elements of Raiders in order to have a movie to please everyone.

For me, LC gets worse every successive time, as if it slowly unravels all over itself. The opening I used to dislike now acts as one of the only driving sections of the film, with some actual creativity involved. Then we switch to a terribly underdone fight scene as staged onboard the Coronado which really sets up the tone for the rest of the entire film.

Underdone, sloppy and in effect empty.

The villain is terribly one note and has the exact relationship and motive with the Nazis as Belloq did. The love interest is undefined and in the second half of the film more annoying to me with all of those idiotic bug eyed looks than all of Wille's endless shrieks in TOD. And then they even take two of the great supporting players from Raiders and turn them into sorely unnecessary comic relief. The eradication of Brody and Sallah's characters is ingratiating and to be perfectly honest they should have been left out of the film altogether in order to better serve the primary focus on the father-son estranged relationship.

The tank chase is way too long, and completely improvised. So were Raiders and TOD, but those were works by younger men who were hungry for work. Crusade is made by people who are complacent and who should really have nothing to do with an adventure film. The only interesting parts of the film are the moments between Indy Sr and Jr, and for that we would have been much better off with something like My Dinner with Dad, What? Dad! What! Dad! WHAT!. These small moments are the only worthy and memorable parts of this snoozefest.

The ending reeks of trying to copy the previous two films but is so completely lackluster that it threatens to undo the entire thing. There may be good motivation but the challenges and booby traps are terribly simple.

And what's with the torch Indy carries in the tomb? Does it have some magical "cannot make things catch on fire with all of the burning embers it drops" magical charm? That bothers the heck out of me each time.

I used to enjoy this more, or so I thought. Each time I watch the Indy trilogy, I like TOD more and Crusade even less. The first two films are down and dirty movies made by young men trying to emulate the serials of their youth, and in trying to emulate these these succeeded in making a truly modern equivalent. Crusade is a different kind of movie.

2.5 balls out of 4

One thing: Did Elsa betray Donovan in the ending or am I reading far too much into this?

TServo2049 said:

captainsolo said:

TServo2049 said:

The Blu-ray includes a mono track...but it's a fold-down of the modern remix! All the other MGM Leone films include the original mono (albeit not lossless), but TGTBATU doesn't.

This is exactly what MGM did when they released a newly extended cut of Duck, You Sucker! on DVD. The "Mono" option was merely a folddown of the 5.1, and while it was nowhere near as intrusive as the bastard GBU mix, it features the wrong music in several spots!

Funny that, John Kirk says he changed nothing music wise, and Glenn "DVD Savant" Erickson, who worked at MGM when the uncut LD was released and knows more about the film than anyone, says the music matches both LDs.

But if the DVD indeed has "fake mono," then track down the 1998 A Fistful of Dynamite LD, which has both digital and CX mono.

Could the other two films also have fake mono?

The 98 LD indeed has the original mono mix with line variations that are not present in the 2007 5.1/mono mixes. The cues are different as well in several places. The only thing this LD version lacks is the full end flashback and the final "What about me?" line. The new mix is WRONG. And theatrically it didn't sound too good either.

Fistful and FAFDM do feature their original tracks, though they may have been sweetened or mussed with a bit. FAFDM fixes a sync problem that was introduced with the first DVD release.

Always. Plus you have to factor in their amps, speakers, processors and if people have calibrated things properly. Ghost Protocol sounded okay to me theatrically, but I saw it in an older second run theater with standard Dolby 5.1 running off the film print.

TServo2049 said:

Another example of a missing mono track: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. When MGM put together the restored extended cut, they only did a 5.1 remix, since the original mono track conformed to the shorter U.S. theatrical cut, and according to DVD Savant a restored mono track was not included in the restoration budget.

The worst remix of any film ever. It violates the film itself and everyone's intent.

The Blu-ray includes a mono track...but it's a fold-down of the modern remix! All the other MGM Leone films include the original mono (albeit not lossless), but TGTBATU doesn't.

This is exactly what MGM did when they released a newly extended cut of Duck, You Sucker! on DVD. The "Mono" option was merely a folddown of the 5.1, and while it was nowhere near as intrusive as the bastard GBU mix, it features the wrong music in several spots!

The original DVD contains a mono track, but naturally it's not lossless. This film deserves a lossless preservation of the mono track from laserdisc. Both of the 90s letterbox LD releases contain a digital track as well as a CX-encoded analog track.

It sounds quite good for lossy DD. I need to find those LDs myself, I do know that the first letterbox issue has the Italian names for the three in their freeze frames, and that the later issue is simply the same as the original DVD, which was an early LD to DVD port.

I think it could also be possible to make an extended version of the original mono track, by taking the lossless Italian mono track on the Mondo Blu-ray for the additional scenes, and switching to a mono fold-down of the English whenever someone talks. That way, you'd have a mostly original, English mono mix that could be synched up to that superior release.

And if you want to go one further and make an English mono that includes the grotto scene, to synch up to the MGM Blu-ray, you could probably cut together the lossy Italian mono on that disc with the English dialogue from the remix.

It's better, easier and truer to simply leave the scenes in Italian and subtitled. That way you have the original effects and balancing the way it was mixed. To try and go in and replace dialogues would be nearly impossible since everything is already mixed and placed in a single channel. You'd wind up with the two dialogues fighting each other and drowning out everything else. And I hate the re-dubbed English, Clint and Eli hardly even sound like themselves and it really detracts from the experience.

FremenDar said:

Sounds as though captainsolo needs a receiver which supports HDMI, Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio and LPCM.

It's older but it does both DD and DTS 5.1 just fine.

BATMAN (1989) Blu-ray 5.1 TrueHD sounds shit because it was lowered 4Db.

Really? Hmm..wonder why they did that. I guess it's part of the Dolby Stereo to 5.1 conversion? All the films that have this done seem to lack the punch and rumble that I recall them having. With the move to discrete channels, there seems to be a loss of presence and a kind of analogue muddiness that I miss. (Just watched Last Crusade on DVD and thought it sounded a bit too polite.)

Since the JAWS Blu-ray is only going to have 7.1 DTS-HD MA, anyone have a high bitrate PCM track from the Signature Collection Laserdisc? Similar to what dark jedi did for The Terminator. Glad I have a Blu-ray disc burner but BD50s are expensive.

That would be the way to go, as the Blu will have a lossy mono as an afterthought. That said, with a decent receiver and speakers, lossy mono can be pretty effective. I cranked the heck out of the mono on the 30th Anniv. DVD when I screened this for people in college. No one has really understood what the Jaws experience is meant to be like unless hearing this in the dark.

Though I've never read a great many of his works, a true visionary. Truly sad news. RIP.

Temple of Doom

Why does everyone dislike this so much? It's equal to Raiders in quite a number of ways, it's darker, has more humor with a screwball flavor and truly is an adventure serial on a huge budget. The editing and pacing is tighter than even Raiders, and it works as a complete thrill ride. And this time around Spielberg is constantly winking at us knowingly at what we've gotten ourselves into. Even John Williams does this with the score! (the Cairo street music is present when Indy goes for his gun against the two swordsmen.)

All Last Crusade can manage is the byplay between the Jonses, and wishing that it knew what exactly it was doing.

Raiders may be perfect, but Temple is damn gritty fun. Yes, I love Short Round as the sidekick, and Willie is little more than an update of the shrieking girly 30's stereotype. And if you've seen Gunga Din, what's not to like?

Mola Ram, Prepare to meet Kali...IN HELL!

4 huge colossal balls out of 4 you guessed it...flaming hearts.

And I forgot just how good an old CRT screen looks with calibrated DVD. Hooked in an old Sony DVD player I rescued out of a closet, plugged in component cables, connected to sound setup and boom! Plus the widescreen enhancement really helps.

Ah. Dammit. And don't you have to pay taxes on internet raised funds now? Back to casing the vaults...;)

ROTJ 97 SE

Bit underwhelming to be honest. Looked and sounded fine, although going back through the SE on a large TV with the 5.1 has really made it apparent just how shoehorned all of the additions/changes really are. You don't fully realize as a kid just what they've done, to you it just seems like an alternate version with more stuff in it.

Jedi Rocks is composed to be something of a big F You to the audience. You cringe horribly and yearn for the days of the understated Lapti Nek and limited puppets. Similar thing with the added celebration shots...oh look isn't that the EXACT SAME BESPIN SHOT MADE FOR THE ESB SE!?!?!?!?! ARRGH!

I do appreciate the new ending music as Yub Nub just has never felt right to  me for being the ending of the trilogy. But it is just a bit too

Bingowings said:

And although these LDs are very well made, as soon as the 97 trailers come on there's an instant jump in color and saturation that looks much more like the films that I remember and Technicolor.

You know, I think I've had it with the SE in general. It's too compromised and the only release was a 1997 video master that itself has problems. On top of that the original work was tampered with and replaced. Screw it. Shut up McCallum-I like the slow artificiality of the original Yavin battle shots, it resembles something much more realistic and imposing as it is in space!

Who's up for just starting a freaking Kickstarter campaign to fund the super "expensive" OT restoration? People and news agencies talk about internet funding all the time now, and since ol' George doesn't want to pay for the restorations we could offer the money ourselves-do it ourselves and George wouldn't ever have to worry about it.

5,337 petition signatures so far. Imagine if everyone who signed chipped in ten bucks to start. That's not a bad starting figure.

I've always remembered how Robert Harris in an old HTF forum stated that he knew of good elements being around for the OT and that the "saving the films" claim was essentially bull. This shouldn't be that difficult people. It won't be on the level of scowering the world for Godfather elements.

Reference using the IB technicolor printing, 70mm version and release with three audio tracks: mono, Dolby stereo, 70mm recreation. Done.

ESB and ROTJ should be much easier to do, being printed and handled less than the original film and being Dolby Stereo. (Though of course the 70mm elements should be checked and scanned for differences.)

End rant...

Wow, have fun over there...and look out for Celestial Body Great War.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_foreign_language_translations_of_Star_Wars_titles

;)

ESB 97 SE

Who did the remix on ESB? Dang it sounds good! Little to report, watched with 5.1 ac3 which was much much better sounding than SW. Just wish I had an LD player with a better image that also had the rf out, as the DVL-700 is a bit blurry and smeary.

Again, the additions made are completely stupid, senseless and a waste. If you didn't know the film you'd never realize that they had actually done anything. Stupid, but at least it still is mostly the same film. I'm actually surprised there were no deleted scenes thrown in, like the Han/Leia Bespin moment. That would wreck the pacing, oh wait...that's "Alert my Star Destroyer"'s job.

ESB Special Edition: Now starring Moff Jejerrod!

That would make sense. The broadcast has the timing look of the DC, and in turn that look of being an older 90's era telecine base. The DC was completed in 92/93 with the LD master made soon thereafter and released in 94.

All of the older versions/transfers have a definite analog processed look to them that seemingly is closer to the original release presentation. It is very difficult to compare to the new timing of the FC, which is completely different. Digital cold Blue/greens versus the warm analog brown, reds, yellows, and soft blues of the DC and earlier.

What would be very interesting is to see an actual print of the DC to see if other differences come out. The video versions of the domestic, international and DC all look extremely similar if not identical. (DC may be differently timed in a few places)

Desert Chase-Raiders original soundtrack LP.

I now own both the BR Director's cut and International LDs, so I'll sit down soon to compare. I primarily got them for completist's sake and for the fact that they feature the original Dolby matrixed surround mixes instead of redone 5.1 tracks.

2001 has two original versions: 70mm six-track Cinerama mix and the 35mm version which I saw, and that may have had some type of extra audio...because it certainly sounded like it! Criterion used the original master and working with Kubrick and his editor (while making Full Metal Jacket) put it straight into Dolby ProLogic for surround, and used the 35mm master (2.21:1 special print). Not sure what MGM used for their versions but it seems similar if not a bit cropped. The new mix was done for DVD and re-purposed into a 5.1 mix that tried to replicate the original 70mm intent. This has either been re-utilized or spruced up a bit for the Blu-ray. Good mix, but I might prefer the Criterion PCM a bit as it sounds closer to 1968.

North by Northwest, I can easily answer. The Criterion LD is the only edition to feature the original mono track, and PCM only on the CLV release (Which I have.) It was never for certain until recently if the film ever had a stereo or matrixed roadshow release in 1959, this issue came up on the Steve Hoffman forums, and I wound up finally getting an answer: Mono only.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=280234&highlight=north+northwest+mono&page=2

The 5.1 mix is quite good for a 50's mono film, but it's really not that necessary and to me the mono sounds much more balanced and natural. The score was recorded in stereo, but it sounds fine in mono.

I don't own the Apocalypse Blu-ray, nor is my receiver HD capable but from reports it is supposed to pretty much replicate what the film originally sounded like. However, I adore the 1991 widescreen LD PCM as Walter Murch essentially just dumped the '79 master audio straight to Dolby ProLogic Surround, giving an almost exact replica of the theatrical audio. The later 5.1 remixed LD sounds lowered, as they were trying to promote the new discrete ac3 mix of the PCM, and thus weakened the PCM original. Neither sounds as good. BTW the tiger on this LD audio will scare the pee out of you.

Was it ever determined if the Technidisc pressed ESB and ROTJ were similar to the SW transfer?

ANH 97SE.

Finally with the 5.1 ac3 Dolby track, and I have to say for such a complicated way of getting this surround on the disc, it sounds really great. Even when compared to the Surround PCM mix or a DTS LD. It's nice to finally hear the 5.1 again, and now I'm able to clearly hear all of the extra things they just shoved in...which I'm not too pleased with. Dialogue benefits mainly, as it is much clearer in the center channel. Just wish they hadn't added so many effects and new panning. And then this is only here and there, leaving the rest as it was.

Sadly my player with the ac3 out has a softer image than my older 702, but it's pretty negligible on the 36" behemoth Sony CRT I've hooked up to. (Still on floor it's so heavy!

While I still prefer the 97 Jabba to the 04 one, on the whole for this film, the CGI additions are totally unnecessary. There is not one shot that is truly seamless, benefiting or improved. This is one of those childhood things I have to pull up from time to time to reacquaint myself with, and I find I like the 97SE less and less with each subsequent viewing. The only change I've ever liked is the new music for ROTJ's ending.

Flawed but still certainly watchable.

I don't know how they brightened the opening, because it was just as dark as ever, if not more so. I haven't ever been sure why Paramount funded a full restoration after the Lowry transfers were made, and then didn't do the same for Temple and Crusade. I have some faith in the restoration as it was the last done by Ron Smith before he was booted out of the studio's restoration department. (He also did the recent Ten Commandments, Breakfast at Tiffany's, African Queen) But it certainly to my eyes looked like someone had been messing with the contrast and image levels.

Prediction: The Blu-ray will be the 4K master converted down to 1080p with 5.1 audio in DTS-HDMA.

I think the audio may have simply been because it was digital off the print, and someone had not turned everything on...people have raved about the digital screening's sound, which would likely be a higher resolution file akin to what would be on the Blu-ray.

Ah! This may explain what I noticed occasionally. On this print there were individual places where it looked like you could see an outline of a vertical line just where it would be, but there was still nothing there. This happened occasionally and was indeed during the Tanis sequence. Thought my eyes were playing tricks on me.

Other than that there was a green and yellow damage line that appeared in a later scene, which surprised me being on a brand new print.

And all the reviews rave about the sound on this restoration. I want to know what they were listening to. EDIT: probably a higher resolution file with the digital 4K screening, what I heard was probably standard crummy Dolby 5.1 on the film print. And they must have had the amps off, because I've heard better degraded mono in there...a few years back they showed a battered For a Few Dollars More and it blew me away.

35....1997 wasn't too long ago it seems. I'll finally sit down and watch the SE with the Laserdisc ac3 cranked. Loud. :)

I'll bite too. Any updated mouse droppings?

They did all throughout the 90's/00's. Now you can't ever find out what a theater has, let alone what the movie features. Wish there was an easy way to do so nowadays.

Drooling like mad over here...with my recent ac3 demodulator find, I've been stunned at how good LD ac3 sounds. I only sampled the SE so far, and it is incredible, both for the format and the soundfield. A DTS mix would be stupendous at nearly double the bitrate and using their compression algorithms.

Here's hoping ESB will turn up.

That TPM might be worth a shot, but it won't have the special faux 6.1 mix done with Dolby digital EX. Since the film was designed for that new technology, I'm curious as to why they even made a DTS mix...and if it could be better. I know I've played Ady's theatrical reconstruction with the LD audio, and it sounds phenomenal on a 5.1 rig.

Raiders of the Lost Ark

The film: One of the few perfect films ever made. Made for all those who still harbor a child's sense of adventure.

Presentation: The new 4K restoration on 35mm. Image has been cleaned up extensively with extreme brightness. Color is also extremely robust, almost seeming pumped up at times. Little grain present however. No snake reflection and no CGI cliff shot. The sound was similar if not identical to the DVD 5.1, but it was very underwhelming. Surrounds hardly ever used at all.

And for some reason the reel changes were all very badly placed, almost always right in the middle of dialogue. For example: Indy opening the book to show the picture of the Ark and opening the Well of the Souls.

The film: 4 balls out of 4. The new restoration: ??? Does anyone have memories of the original theatrical release? Wasn't it a bit dark in places? I bet this will be exactly how the Blu-ray looks and sounds, but hopefully we get the sound mix in a lossless codec for better fidelity. (Or maybe a seamlessly branched version with the reflection put back!)

Mirror Mirror

Who the heck thought paying for this was a good idea? A mess.

1 ball out of 4.

On Raiders...the sound appears to have been tweaked a little bit somehow. I thought a few effects may have been different but checking them against the DVD showed they were the same. However, the sound was quite wimpy. Compared to the DVD, which appears to be the same mix, it sounded flat and uninvolving and a bit tinny-especially the dialogue. Surround usage only fully appeared during big music cues, and revisiting the DVD this morning on my computer speakers showed the difference.

The image was extremely bright and being a 4K project printed back to film revealed more of the details. Color was extremely saturated, with skin tones being a noticeable vibrant orange-red. Blacks were also very strong, especially in the jungle opening. Basically imagine the 2003 DVD with Brightness, saturation and contrast increased (I tried this with VLC and got a similar looking image) Surprisingly there was little to no grain visible.

Snake reflection was still gone, Marion's still there, no CGI cliff shot, and I do think that a rod was removed from the boulder sequence (will have to get a widescreen LD to check as my VHS is pan n scan).

I think that the presentation I saw will be exactly like the upcoming Blu-ray release, but hopefully the sound will be more impressive. I'm still not sold on the overly bright looking image, and was surprised at how "clean" it was.

Anybody have memories of the '81 theatrical release or original prints?

Not that I know of. Many Blu-ray releases, especially Criterion ones that feature PCM mono usually have a 1.0 track.

Would the PCM track take that much more space since it's 1.0? I downgraded a project to to 448kbp/s mono once, but that was because DVD Studio Pro was having issues.