TServo2049 said:
Way back in the 90s, Treadwell said he remembered seeing a 16mm print of Raiders where Jock's voice sounded different. Wasn't there also a clip in the "Creepy Crawlies" featurette on the most recent DVD release, where Jock's voice was different?
I'll have to give this a check. Will post in here later on any difference.
I have the widescreen CAV releases of the entire trilogy, but since I don't have a player, I'm not sure what to do with them. I was hoping to give them to someone who could do preservations of them - especially Raiders minus the digital corrections.
captainsolo, do you already have all three of the movies, or would you be interested in my copies? I bought them for ridiculously cheap at an indie music store, but they have the paper envelopes and those plastic-bag sleeves intact, and I didn't see any visible surface scratches.
I actually don't have any Indy discs other than the DVDs. (And VHS of course!) I'd love the LDs but all I could do currently is just transfer audio, and only analog at that. My PC is middle of the road and I have no digital sound input. Both my LD players can do digital sound over the RCAs, but I think this would be less than ideal. AFAIK Raiders just needs the snake reflection put back in and a shot or two. The snake reflection is in the Bonus DVD footage somewhere from the LD master (4:3 letterboxed interlaced)
SilverWook said:
I tend to turn CX on for analog audio if the disc has it. My impression over the years is using it on a non CX encoded disc muffles the audio. I couldn't really hear the background noise in the 80's, so either it's my gas tube monster aging, or that I have better speakers now.
Some modern players are supposed to automatically turn CX on if detected. IIRC, one other player I owned in the early 90's made it pretty hard to turn it off. Most 90's players I've seen can only switch it on and off with the remote.
Both mine do it automatically, and my backup player supposedly removed the feature to turn it off, but is reputed to do so if you simply switch through all the audio options (DVL-700). I haven't noticed a difference, and my main player requires the remote to switch CX, but I've never found the correct model to replace it.
If you're after a pre-restoration Vertigo, this is probably the disc to get. I don't own it though.
http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/01974/40082/Vertigo-%281958%29
There are several copies on Ebay at the moment.
Yeah, that's the one on my LDDB wishlist. It's really one of those on a whim titles more than a really desired disc. Psycho I'm really more interested in as it has the open framing and the Discovision version supposedly has audio from right from the master.
hairy_hen said:
I'm not an expert on such things, but I recall hearing that the resolution of analogue laserdisc sound is comparable to that of FM radio. So it's good quality, but definitely not the greatest, with less dynamic range and a lower signal-to-noise ratio than can be found in 16-bit PCM. Capturing analogue tracks in higher resolution before downsampling gives better results than using CD quality from the start, due to the characteristics of digital audio (by minimizing rounding errors and using dither to mask quantization noise), but don't expect miracles in what you're going to get out of a limited source.
Ah! That's what I was looking for! That makes perfect sense as to why digital sound was implemented on the format in the first place. Thanks hh!
And according to this thread on TheRaider.net, there is an alternate line when Indy is sliding under the truck to lash his whip.
http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=21633
EDIT: Here it is. Indeed, Indy says something like "Do they think I'm dumb?" Plus the grunt he makes when flung out is louder, and some of the sound effects are different sounding.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvE5fhsytS8
It looks like the discussion there is about a tv broadcast version, and it's very likely that the sound is a remix and not the original. I saw an old 35mm print of Raiders a few years ago, and I'm pretty dang certain that line was not present.
Very possible. I'm actually wondering if it might be something from the WS LD since several have said that the mix had different effects and that identical sounding clip is on the DVD bonus disc in what appears to be a LD master.
As far as the DVD mix is concerned, Neil S. Bulk claims that it was made from the 70mm version, and given how similar most of it is to what I heard on the 35, I'm inclined to believe him. Whether the 70 ever had split surrounds back then or not I can't say, but since the rear panning is well done and not intrusive I'm really not worried about that.
Agreed. It's still a good mix regardless. A higher resolution version will likely improve things.
The 5.1 does have a built-in flaw, however, and it's not one that I've seen pointed out anywhere: namely, that the surround channels are recorded 3 db too loud on the disc. Do a simple comparison with the alternate language tracks upmixed through Prologic II and the difference becomes instantly apparent; in the stereo tracks the rear portion of the sound is balanced and natural, blending seamlessly with the front, while in the 5.1 it is often overwhelmingly loud and calls far too much attention to itself. Panning between front and back doesn't work well because the surround portion can actually be distinguished as separate from the rest of the mix, which is very obviously just plain wrong for the sound.
Fortunately, there is an easy solution if you wish to hear Raiders with the proper balance—all you have to do is go into your receiver calibration and change the playback level of the surround speakers, reducing them each by 3 decibels. Doing this will allow the mix to sound like itself again, and it provides a much more satisfying listening experience for the movie. Just don't forget to put the levels back to normal when it's over! ;)
(This assumes, of course, that you have your 5.1 system properly calibrated already, with all channels level-matched to each other at the listening position. Many people set their surrounds and subwoofer too high, mistakenly believing that they should stand out as much as possible rather than blending into the system as a whole. Incorrect speaker placement is also a problem—get those surrounds further away and slightly elevated! How are you being 'surrounded' if the rear speakers are right next to your head?)
As for why the Raiders mix has this problem, I can't say with complete certainty, but I suspect it may be glitch and not a deliberate decision. Movie theatres are calibrated with the surround channels playing 3 db lower than in home settings, due to using arrays of multiple speakers rather single point-sources, so all surround effects are deliberately recorded 3 db louder as a result of this. Part of transferring film mixes to disc is supposed to involve lowering the rear channels to compensate, but it's entirely possible that someone forgot to do this and it simply didn't get noticed. Whether the Bluray will also have this problem, we'll have to see.
I'll have to give that a try. I did think think that on my setup that the center channel got drowned out too easily. Though the theater where I saw the restoration sounded like the surrounds were almost turned off!
