captainsolo

…(in best Han voice)…“oh, great”.

Indeed he should have stipulated in the deal. It seems to be a matter of wanting to keep a controlling hand while not having to do the work akin to not directing yet trying to influence ESB and ROTJ.
The best time this worked was the EU where George was consulted but as long as things were in parameters and had context most was fair game. Over time with the films the problem became that all of the filtering voices of dissent dropped off or were abandoned so that by the time of the prequels everyone had to work with what was given and there were no revisions done-largely AT ALL. That’s where the problem lies.

He should be saying Disney does nothing new story wise. The bigger problem is a complete lack of story context with anything SW related. The new films really have nothing to do with the original series as conceived outside of brand iconography. I don’t blame George for anything and never have. I think he got focused on building up the company instead of telling great stories and this is where everybody’s paths diverged.
The only thing I truly regret is him selling out to the very thing that represented what LFL was founded to rebel against.

And the whole going back to film is a misnomer generally used for marketing. Everything is done digitally in effects and post anyway outside of a few exceptions and the film shoots will do a immediate scan back to digital where everything is manipulated to within an inch of its life thus making the original capture methodology null and void.

Well when you hear Dr. Evzan’s amazing original voice it is understandable why they felt the need to re-dub certain performers…that said I adore the vocal performances of the entire original finished mix. The upper crust narcissistic self absorbed tonalities of Motti against the slightly raspy and justifiably concerned Tagge etc…maybe I just think about this too much. 😉

I was revisiting MONA LISA recently and in the emotional climactic ending suddenly notice the street performers on the pier and loudly shout “OMG IS THAT KENNY-THAT’S TOTALLY KENNY BAKER AND JACK PURVIS!”

Start with Star Wars in whichever closer to original video version or one of the projects you desire. Then let them discover the stories for themselves.
I think it works best this way and thus they see the OT in order and then go further with the prequels and then if necessary can delve into the Disney stuff if curious.
And yes I think all kids naturally gravitate towards ROTJ and then over time becomes less attached to it. I did, and we all seem to have!

Ultimately try and make it something fun and enjoyable that can be a fond shared experience. For me Star Wars was a solitary engagement as a kid because no one in my family liked sci-fi or adventure whatsoever but I can imagine it being a real keepsake memory for kids these days just getting started.

And if they get really, REALLY hooked perhaps dabble in the good ol’ EU. And especially the radio drama!!!

I can’t remember specifics off the top of my head that aren’t already covered here but the Jones bio is great for getting everything laid out in a historical context. The biggest draw I’d say is probably detailing the notion of giving up control is perhaps something hard for George to do and this caused issues in the sequels while he tried to distance himself from stress. I think it’s a great book and something everyone on here should read at least for better understanding because it isn’t afraid to address the negatives.

Now with the chapter in Bob Iger’s new book detailing how George felt betrayed on Disney not using his treatments it doesn’t surprise me a bit that he felt left out.

No.

The ESB changes are detractive but in more subtle ways than the other two films. The worst is the change in Vader’s line reading but worst of all is the wrecking of the climax’s pacing in order to shove in the new shots of Vader’s shuttle and then a shameless recycle of a ROTJ shuttle shot.

The Wampa addition is fine but the limitation of the original has more suspense and plays better.

The effect cleanups were one thing but many were recomposites if you check 005’s exhaustive thread. I really wish they would have left it alone despite fixing inherent issues like the see through snowspeeder cockpits. It should be as it was just like the rods/armatures left in King Kong. And NONE of us noticed the Wampa arm rod until a couple of years ago.

The 2004 DVD Emperor scene and Jango redubs were yet another twist of the knife and wholly unnecessary. I could understand the logic in each but neither is effective at anything other than taking you out of the film.

The Bespin flythrough is needed but doesn’t do all that much. It also sticks out as a new shot and in comparison the simplistic landing of the original is a better choice in terms of direct pacing.
The interior and Leia viewport shot are better in the original because they are intrinsic to the original composition whereas the new additions do not always mesh perfectly with the original photography.

I grew up in the years of renting various tapes so at times it was SE and not SE. The scream is fine until you realize it’s Palpy’s scream and that the fall does work better in silence.

Mostly the SE 1997 mix actually adds some things from the mono mix and is both bombastic and respectful to the original 1980 mix intentions. It does revert back to the scripted “lucky to get out of there” but that’s fine. In the SE track there are some nice alternate effects in the Bespin duel from the mono I prefer and still think of: chiefly Vader’s exclamation when knocked off the platform by Luke. In the 1980 mix it’s a simple :“Aarh!”. whereas the SE mix had a much more impressive: “Oooohhhhhh!”-this came from the mono and is one of the things the SE pulled in.
The stupid choice was the “alert my Star Destroyer” line from an ANH outtake that is emotionally out of place in that scene.

In ESB it shows yet again unimportant and incessant tweaking for tweakings sake. Each of the ESB changes are undoing pieces of the original film and it really should have been left alone.

It is this thread and that wonderful twitter account that help us keep our sanity afloat.

Thanks again as always.

I’m glad it wasn’t just me who missed him at first. Now every time I start doing the YOLT radar tech, the beleaguered underling of Willard Whyte or TSWLM’s sub captain.

Yes indeed the Jones book. I’ve gotten to the post Prequels section and it’s the most balanced book on George I’ve read.

He did call Steve up and had him over to play chess as well.

I’m currently reading the newish George (the title is Lucas: A Life) biography and it’s nice to have everything lined up in one place chronologically. So far I’ve only gotten to the ROTJ period but it doesn’t sugarcoat stuff and the SW section does cover some similar ground to Zombie but of course in far less detail.
I’ll be interested to see how the rest goes. Again it does refute the on and off revisionism in a lot of places and for once its a book that describes how all of the film school buddies were on and off again-especially detailing the George/Francis relationship which no one ever seems to go into all that much.
Admittedly It is SO much better than the older “everything was great” style bios.

Has anyone else here read it?

The gaffes, errors, problems and shortcuts in SW are all due to Fox nickel and diming everyone the whole time and then the final rush to get shooting finished with everyone bicycling between stages and multiple units going at once.
And that’s a big part of why it is great. And a big chunk of what the SEs remove.

Here’s one of my favorite “how did I not notice before!!”
I never realized it was Shane Rimmer who asked about Artoo in the Yavin hangar for the longest time-then suddenly my Bond fan radar went off into overdrive and I shouted HOW DID I NOT SEE HIM?

Also it took me forever to notice Vader’s helmet hood actually moving during the wind tunnel and climax of the Bespin duel.

DavidMDaut said:

captainsolo said:

I think that as said above the distinct lack of energy and vibrancy is a major problem. The thought of going to a park which is teeming with life/activity/droids/scum and villainy like a real spaceport is MUCH more like it.

While I fundamentally disagree on the issue of content as it relates to the sequel trilogy, the lack of energy is a fair criticism, and unfortunately comes down to a lot of eleventh hour budget cuts imposed by the current president of Disney Parks. There were plans for autonomous roaming droids, stunt shows, and more characters and creatures populating the land, but Bob Chapek – who has quickly gained a reputation as something of a miser – pulled the ripcord and refused to hire the performers necessary to fill these roles.

The most frustrating thing is that the infrastructure is all there in plain sight in the land, it’s just not being used. There are stages and performance spaces around just about every corner of the outpost, there are props and set pieces placed conspicuously close to doorways that hide the beacons that would have told the droids areas to avoid. The grand opening press event in California featured one of the stunt shows that has yet to materialize for the general public, and similarly the opening in Florida featured a full Hondo Ohnaka walk-around character costume that – again – has not shown up since then. There’s all of this stuff that they spent the time and money to develop and have basically ready to go, but none of it’s online because the guy holding the purse strings is too cheap to hire performers.

I had no idea of this. That makes absolute sense as to what the park has turned out like so far and why someone would think it’s a good idea to open a seemingly empty park is beyond me.

I know I’m in the minority but to me it has all been downhill since the abomination appeared in 2006. And it only looks to get worse the more we see about NTTD.
I’m even able to find people wondering what’s going on in Bond forums now and some actually listen to all of my gripes with the modern films where they seem to have discarded the character entirely.

But it does seem like the 4K remasters of the original series will finally see the light of day probably for 25’s release and after seeing some screencaps of the new versions some wrongs may finally have been righted.

There’s room for all sorts of adventures even off planet and all the while under the risk of blowing his cover and attracting the unwanted attention of the Empire.

Stream tonight at 8PM CST. We shall discuss the Master.
https://youtu.be/MA3ebY2ucw8

Most people don’t realize that TCM was based on the MGMUA and then WB video libraries and still shows LD era masters for titles without anything else available. In fact they still run DVD masters when there are BDs available-but sometimes things just don’t get updated and they have great upscaling algorithms. I will agree their SD broadcasts have gone downhill but there are many times that the HD version is still uprezzed SD.

Rare no-DVD titles like Raintree County, The Crowd-LD masters. Titles on BD from WB or Warner Archive: usually still the DVD master.
But BUY OUR TCM WINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Subscribe to backlot for $99999999999!

I love them. I grew up on them. But they never upgrade properly which kills me. However I like seeing the really, really old masters so I’m weird.

Also, I love Joe Dante to death. I love him far more than his pictures which I merely enjoy and find decent. Trailers From Hell is like a desert oasis especially now that DVD Savant is there.

It makes me sad because this could have been a great feature film on its own and finally been the “space western” George talked about-because it fits right into the great tradition of dark classical Westerns with a post-war tarnished former soldier figure at the center of it whether in a tale of redemption or a quest of sorts. Or at least that’s how I would have done it!

I presume the series will be Kenobi centric but there could be episodes that focus on others. Best case scenario we get something as good as the LAST OF THE JEDI book series but I doubt it. (Even there Obi-Wan disappears after the first two books) It seems the KENOBI novel (which is excellent!) is pretty much very similar to the movie we would have gotten anyway.

Season 1 of OL’ BEN: CRAZY OLD MAN IS SO WIZARD

I think the move to TV shows in the announced new slate is proof Disney is hedging its bets on the new film not doing as well. I’ve even met others who are not major fans in day to day regular life who have expressed my sentiment of never again being taken in after TLJ and sitting this one out completely. And it’s not an isolated incident but something that’s happened several times without my bringing it up.
Ultimately I think there will be some kind of box office fall off even if it isn’t form that as their handling of the franchise has not gotten to the Marvel levels they wished.

For me there’s Mara and Leia and everyone else. There’s a lot of really nice strong characters scattered throughout the EU come to think of it, even in some of the short stories but Mara is just the badass of the galaxy. I’m still peeved over what happened to her in the Legacy series which to be honest I stopped after that.

Interesting. I never knew how they got it down to one Gamecube disc so that’s how I suppose.

Even now I have the reflex of right button mouse for saber throw
g_saberdismemberment cheat activate, fun begins!

For me to hear that Sk actually at least liked Star Wars was enough as a kid to make me ecstatic. It’s nice to remember he was a normal guy like us too. He even liked The Jerk!

I honestly don’t know for sure. It doesn’t seem like it-merely that they made the new cleaned up version for Redux and then used it on all subsequent masters. The new 4K Final Cut is from a complete restoration and all materials were scanned from negatives so it’s completely from scratch-then all three versions were done from there.

Apocalypse Now for the 40th anniversary.

Mystical, indescribable, powerful and immortal. The theatrical cut is definitive but the new 4K restoration is stunning. The three versions are presented well, the original sound mix is on disc and the new Atmos track has super low frequencies in the LFE track but is still respectful to the original audio mix. While the compression isn’t so good on the included Blu-rays it is still a better 1080p experience than the old discs.

For $22 and SIX discs including all three cuts in HD and 4K , new extras and all old extras it’s a no brainer.

The Chairman (1969)

This film is Bizarre. Bizarrely edited with a bizarre tone that goes all over the place. Forgotten today with middling to negative reviews.

Yet I’ve tried to see this film for years and found myself enjoying it through its weirdness. Gregory Peck plays an ex-spy professor who goes to China in the midst of the Cold War in a US-British-Soviet joint mission to retrieve a formula for growth enzymes. And yes, setup wise it’s very TORN CURTAIN esque.

A communication device is installed in his skull to permit satellite transmission back to HQ so they can hear his entire journey…except for the fact the neglect to tell him that there is a small explosive charge inside the device that can be implemented if they feel the mission is going sour or when he comes into contact with the titular character…aka where John Carpenter probably got the idea for the similar device in Escape From NY.

I always knew of this as the movie where they put a bomb inside Greg Peck’s head and darn it if it doesn’t somehow work! Sure it’s problematic as hell and will cause you to throw your arms up in incredulity but Peck is stunningly charismatic in essentially a Bondian role and J Lee Thompson directs many scenes very well despite the tone and script being all over the place. The scene where Peck’s character actually meets Chairman Mao is handled brilliantly and is multilayered to say the very least. The action climax is well cut and then the tag ending has echoes of 3 Days of the Condor almost.

Basically had this been made five years later it would have been darker and better. As it stands it is intellectual, well made if inefficient and somewhat plodding. Which of course makes it better than 99% of what hits screens today.

DuracellEnergizer said:

I know this is blasphemy, but I’m gonna say it anyway: Vertigo isn’t a masterpiece. It could’ve been a masterpiece — it had the makings of one — but the flashback broke the movie. Whether Madeleine was being possessed by the spirit of Carlotta or not; whether Judy and Madeleine were one and the same or not; whether Scottie’s deduction at the end was accurate or the delusions of a man gone off the deep end — all should’ve been left unanswered and ambiguous.

Also, Madeleine was as pretty as a rainbow, and about as charismatic as a rainbow trout. Why Scottie chose her over Midge, a zesty woman with actual personality, I’ll never understand. Guess he prefers to rob the cradle of love.

Finally, that ending — it’s so abrupt, it’s almost comical.

★★★★★★☆☆☆☆
Let me put my analyst cap on for a sec…

As much as it pains me to hear someone saying all that you’re not alone. The reveal breaks with screen trends and most reviews and audiences hated the things you mentioned. But it is because of the break with traditions that the film is so completely different, experimental and special. For decades the film’s reputation was not good at all and then you couldn’t even see it until the battered version was reissued in 1983.
There are still some who disagree with the reveal halfway through but it sets up the crux of suspense in ways that Hitch had never done before or since. It becomes an act of emotional and character suspense rather than story driven. From that point onwards it becomes a matter of what will Scottie do if he finds out, or will he find out rather than just: will such and such character get out of a jam? And it also compounds the emotional story on Judy’s side and allows the audience into her genuine emotion which only heightens the suspense, sadness and absolute tragedy. The ending is built to over the entire picture and it’s doomed denouement is perhaps the greatest climax and end shot in the medium.

But to each their own. I get where you’re coming from but this is all what helps to make VERTIGO so different. If it had ended with the tag ending in Midge’s apartment saying Elster was caught by police overseas it would have robbed the picture of so much power.

But it is nice to hear someone talking about how great Midge is and how Scottie is so dumb that this wonderful, fun, warm, intelligent, vivacious woman is right there the whole time and totally adorable. This makes her final departure in the hospital so completely devastating because at that point she is never going to ever be in Scottie’s mind as anything near the ghost of his obsessions and is thus also gone forever. In fact the final shot of her in the film in the doorway is almost like a specter itself.

Anchorhead said:

One of my favorite films of all time and by far my favorite Robert Redford film. Considering the amount of time I’ve spent reading anything and everything, I’ve felt a kinship with Joe Turner for decades. Also for me, my favorite Faye Dunaway film. She’s perfect in this. LOVE her character.

An absolute 5 out of 5 Sparrow Hawks.

Condor is one of those films that really, REALLY grows on you far more over time. The first time it’s a great thriller and one of the better spy films of the decade. Eventually it sinks in and hits you like a load of bricks. Every last detail works beautifully and even the love story is convincing. I don’t know if there is a better or more believable Redford role and the drama is heightened by the fact that he plays a man who is completely in over his head and a bookworm at that long before Jack Ryan was “just an analyst”. The interplay between him and Max Von Sydow is priceless.
Again this is a picture that only grows in stature. The ending is extremely deep and perfectly open ended in the best possible way that so many 70’s films were. While it is reminiscent of MARATHON MAN and others of the same ilk, Condor has its own identity but is still one of the truly timeless films of the decade that isn’t talked about enough. And essential for spy nerds.
This reminds me I still really need to read the book and get the Blu-ray. I had been holding off because there are two different versions in Europe with different transfers/extras. I just have the trusty Laserdisc.

I’ve always loved Sydney Pollack in interviews, lectures and general thought process but usually never liked most of his later films all that much. They’re good and all but just not quite my thing usually. Condor is right up there at the top for me but my favorite is THE YAKUZA which I think is his masterpiece.