captainsolo

CourtlyHades296 said:

Captainsolo, You forgot you have the 97SE on Laserdisc, and the 2011 set in the background of your videos is actually the 2015.

Doh! You’re right can’t believe I forgot the SE LD box. That was actually the first major LD purchase I ever made back in about 2009 or so along with You Only Live Twice and The Spy Who Loved Me.
The 2015 BD release is much better than the 2011 because of the slim box and an actual case. I need to track down a ROTS BD copy to complete it.

It should have been there in the first place but everyone fought George on the idea that it would be too confusing. It was an idea to directly link to the cliffhanger serials of the past-and make it as if you wandered into an ongoing story much as kids used to if they hadn’t seen the previously screened chapters. So in '81 George was able to put it on there much like the '78 THX reissue he got to tweak the edit a tad.

I used to say ANH as a quick reference but the original film should be referred to as Star Wars for historical accuracy and as the original theatrical version. So for quite a number of years now I switched to just abbreviating as SW. Saying ANH should refer to anything 1981 and after.

I did finally pick up the first Marvel Dark horse omnibus volume and plan to jump in straightaway. I almost read the new recolored versions from the library but couldn’t stand the look of them.

Some of my favorite Leia moments were her struggles in the foundering New Republic early days where she had to keep composure amidst extremely trying situations and petty squabbling. Thus one could understand why she loved to just grab a blaster and run…

Darth Dougal said:

CJackson said:

For Star Wars and the Empire Strikes Back, PanaVision cameras were used, but for Return of the Jedi they switched to Arriflex cameras. Why was this?

On an unrelated note, Return of the Jedi just didn’t look as good as it’s predecessors, in my personal opinion. I don’t if it’s the DP they used, or the director, or the cameras, but Return of the Jedi just didn’t look as good as Star Wars or the Empire Strikes Back.

Evening all (long time lurker, first time poster).

I agree with the suggestion that either Marquand or Hume preferred to shoot with Arri cameras. It is also possible that, by the time of principal photography, Lucasfilm had built its own camera inventory. Panavision cameras can only be hired.

As for the look of the film, it was shot on Eastman 250T 5293 colour negative film - new in 1982 and discontinued just a year later (Kodak replaced it with a faster 400 ASA stock). Although 250 ASA sounds laughably slow now, it was a fast film at the time, which meant ‘grainy’. Fast films became less grainy as Kodak refined their technology through the late 80s/90s.

Some of the Endor exterior shots looks underexposed to me - ‘muddy’ - but Alan Hume was a very good DP, so there might have been some characteristic of 5293 that was not well suited to low light (deep forest) daylight exteriors.

I’m guessing that the ‘T’ at the end of 250T stands for Tungsten, which meant the film was balanced for warm, artificial light. When you use tungsten balanced film in daylight, you get a strong blue cast which normally has to be corrected by a filter - but this might cost you a stop of exposure, negating the advantage of fast film. So perhaps some of the Endor exteriors were shot without filtration and the cast was corrected - but not eradicated - by colour correction in the lab.

This is all guesswork, I hope wiser people will chime in 😃

This makes perfect sense and seems pretty spot on from my understanding of stocks and tungsten lighting.

DominicCobb said:

captainsolo said:

ROTJ has less intricate lighting for sure and you can tell there was less time spent on it especially in Imperial set interiors. The film stock is improved but it never has the wow factor of SW or ESB despite being made by a team of two of the best British cameramen then working. I’d chalk it up to production interference and a lack of desire to be artistic like ESB because George hated spending all the time and money on that film when they could just do it fast.

The Making of book has some possible answers. Marquand talks about how often the set up would get thrown out the window because George would add cameras. Lucas is very much a ‘figure it out in the edit’ kind of guy, and he wanted a lot of coverage on the film, and would often add them to set ups himself and tell Marquand “don’t worry about it.” Sometimes this meant up to five cameras shooting at once, if I’m remembering correctly. This leads of course to some flat lighting and also some cameras being forced to change their position or composition so that the other cameras didn’t end up in the frame.

Yes the book is filled with stuff like this and constantly trying to meet deadlines. I think this dovetails with the discussion above and it was likely a number of multicamera setups with less intricate positions combined with less time allowed for lighting and George was dissatisfied with how long it took on ESB despite having very difficult sets to shoot not to mention effects and fog.

I’m extremely curious about the source on Hume and or Marquand leaving. Never before have I heard or seen this stated.

With the children as Ewoks it is entirely possible they had some fill in for pick up shots if everyone else had gone back to London or vice versa if they needed stuff beforehand such as when Garrett Brown was shooting Steadicam plates etc.

It seems not too long ago in the immediate post GOUT world where I stumbled onto here and found my love of SW again amongst like minded fans who actually spoke the same language.

Happy 17th OT.com where we can all talk freely without the blank stares of daily life.

Seeing this stuff is the first time I’ve ever heard of Hume walking off ROTJ let alone Marquand actually being replaced. There have always been rumors akin to Poltergeist of George being so over the shoulder but this is really something else.

I’ve always thought ROTJ had at least some parts that didn’t quite fit with Hume’s slight lean toward softness that you see in his Bonds compared with Alec Mills sharper look I prefer in his Bonds that immediately followed. Both are great cameramen and I do think you see both’s work in ROTJ since Mills was Hume’s operator for years.

https://filmschoolrejects.com/star-wars-cinematography-history-663563e9b58d/
This article indicates that this did happen. I wonder what exactly the sources are. The production sounds a bit too business minded for sure and I had that notion really underlined when I read the making of paperback written by the producer.

As for the original post, Panavision was also the premiere rental house and would sometimes just be credited because they supplied equipment. Camera types and brands are usually chosen by the DP as each has specific strengths and weaknesses. Back in the day most films were shot with a variety of cameras from different brands.

ROTJ has less intricate lighting for sure and you can tell there was less time spent on it especially in Imperial set interiors. The film stock is improved but it never has the wow factor of SW or ESB despite being made by a team of two of the best British cameramen then working. I’d chalk it up to production interference and a lack of desire to be artistic like ESB because George hated spending all the time and money on that film when they could just do it fast.

This lovingly put together mountain of thread writing is the most invaluable thing for any Star Wars fan who has just decided to scratch the surface of the true history.

Oh man I really want to go and get old Insider issues. That brings back so many memories of getting them for one year as a kid. I recently found a few old issues in a store so I’ll have to find those particular issues.

It really feels like the original concepts for more stories were like classic continuing pulp stories and adventures for strips and magazines.

It’d be really cool to get more of this-but especially any official documentation of Splinter of the Mind’s Eye being the original low budget sequel.

I’m skipping this Maclunkey box. It’s likely the D+ versions on disc plus faux 4K discs for the others all in a box full of more maclunkey to try and entice fans to buy. I’m sure they’ll sell some for the holidays and such but yet again it’s a wasted opportunity.

Who knows they may even redo the sound again and make it even worse!

This reminds me that I’ve never gotten this disc or listened to the score. Is it a good listen?

I’ve read the book many times, suffered through the game’s difficulty and even had some of the toys but never the score.
Reading this thread immediately got the n64 menu theme music going on my head. WampaStompa!

I wasn’t going to go. I didn’t want to know anything post TLJ.
But after hearing the rumblings so far I was a bit curious. Today I had some spare time and went to the local independent theater to rip the band aid off in hopes that maybe just maybe it was at least-at the very lest able to work on a serial adventure style level.

What I’m the world did I just sit through?
It’s not “slap in the face infuriating and insulting” like TLJ was but much more akin to the empty vehicle making you feel dead inside TFA-except that it is nonsensical to the extreme and decides to lift most of its plot structure from ROTJ and continually go off track whilst cramming in virtually any callback possible whether situational, visual or audible.

I lost count of how many times I audibly groaned, facepalmed, laughed to myself in anguished WTF ness and had my mouth fall open in pure “it doesn’t work that way!” astonishment.

The length is ridiculous for the incredibly small plot and if one were to remove every unimportant scene it would run about an hour tops.

As usual it feels even more of a waste because the actors are on the whole quite good but literally are archetypes who do what the committee direct them to do.

I could rant and rave but overall it really is a trainwreck that manages to feel like a bit of both previous Disney main releases AND simultaneously the worst “let’s wrap this up” aspects of ROTJ all the while being astonishingly uninspired.

Nothing is really answered. Nothing seems achieved. What was the point of these? They really had no game plan. That’s the most stunning thing.

Sure they’ve got problems, sure we love to riff on those issues, sure they needed naysayers and more time and more drafts but the prequels are so excruciatingly more on target that it hurts.
AOTC is Shakespearean in comparison to this release. Even ROTS, which I think is the worst of the prequels, is light years ahead.

Well…at least ROS is better than TLJ…but that’s not saying much…and it is nearly as bad but just empty instead of insulting.

I am very happy that it’s over and Disney has fallen on their rear end. They needed to after this so called trilogy attempt.
This will not work like the Marveldom releases they keep cranking out. They found out he hard way it won’t fit through their preconceived holes. Thus the focus is now on tv streaming releases and not features.

With receiver and surround setup it all depends on the room and listening environment. Mcacc sounds like a version of audyssey etc. which should adjust your receiver to your correct room parameters.

You should be able to fine tune as needed and yes do go ahead and disable any extra sound functions in the receiver. Your sub performance will also depend on if you are sending it just lfe if you have full range main speakers or are using a crossover point which sends it some of the speaker low end bass content as well. You’re on the right track and will have to test some audio and self adjust and tweak from there. The sub should never overwhelm and sadly most people simply crank it up for the booming effect.

Center adjustments should be in receiver options on a single dB level. You’ll have to have a track playing and play it by ear with adjusting until it’s at a sensible level.

I would also suggest to toe in your main l and r channels toward your listening position.

In terms of best surround moments it will be more limited with the OT mixes due to their vintage. Overall you get so much more of the correct ambiance back in a HT setup that its hard to pick just one moment. You’d notice surround much more on the 97SE mixes which are great for their time. Easiest would be the prequel audio to get a sense of fully utilizing your setup. TPM’s theatrical Dolby EX audio is a must in the main sequences and will phantom center the rear surround behind your head if your surrounds are correctly placed.
I love the AOTC mix which is the best part of the film. For surround the no. 1 choice would be the Geonosis asteroid field with Jango’s seismic charges.

I realized the main problem was that I went to the wrong planet first…whatever you do when first given a choice don’t go to Dathomir like I did. You get to a point you can’t pass and the enemies are far harder for the start of the game. So now I’ve gone back and gone to the other planet and everything is much better.
I don’t know why they give you that option. It’s like someone saying: hey, here’s level 5 you can do a third of and die a lot if you haven’t leveled up.

I started my yearly Xmas season rewatch of Capra classics leading up to It’s a Wonderful Life.

American Madness (1932)
Ever wonder where the Capra film we all think of that culminated in IAWL originated? Look no further. This is the film where Capra and Robert Riskin hit upon that particular blend of populism, individualism, integrity, spirit and stories that would make Depression era audiences feel as if they were finally being heard.
As an early talkie the technique on display is frankly astonishing. There are moments of overlapping dialogue that would have made Howard Hawks sit up and take notice. Many of the themes that turn up later in the other films first appear here in a different variety with the big centerpiece being the run on the bank.
Without a doubt this is a great film of the 30’s, another of the Capra canon that is horrendously unknown and a release way ahead of its time in presentation.

It Happened One Night
Simply put-if you haven’t seen this then you’re missing out. It is that important of a classic title and one that has inspired so much in competition that many of its elements have sunk into to popular consciousness. What remains however it its Depression era roots and innate grittiness that gives the film and its central romance a certain reality which is driven home by Capra’s ability to make every moment so believable.
this time I watched the Columbia spiffed up Laserdisc version and it’s a very nice presentation despite not having the gorgeous 4K restoration Sony allowed Criterion to release.

For those who haven’t heard it yet, The Who’s new album (WHO) is really stunning and their first full length release of new material since Endless Wire back in 2006. Unlike that album which only fanboys like myself defend, the new album has gotten great reviews across the board and track for track is amazingly solid.

Of course like everything today it’s mastered too loud but is still surprisingly listenable. But it does get my highest recommendation. For longtime fans there are feelings and vibes on here reminiscent of WHO ARE YOU, FACE DANCES and some nice referential bits that range from the early days to even a tinge or two of QUADROPHENIA.

I really am enjoying the deluxe edition and think some if not all the three bonus tracks should be on the standard 11 track album.

I fully expect it will be something akin to an HBO show meets the opening books of The Last of The Jedi series. Either that or it will be like The Fugitive where old space wizard man shows up to fix the problem of the week but has to remain hidden away for fear of exposing his guarded secrets.

I must be the odd one out. I’m finding it a really frustrating experience so much so that I’ve cranked down the difficulty. On PS4 it is filled with stuttering and occasional glitches. I’ll admit the games it apparently references in style aren’t what I usually play but I would consider myself an experienced gamer for many years and I’ll be darned if I don’t find myself dying over and over seemingly for no reason. Then having to endlessly backtrack and redo the things I just did time and time again is infuriating.
It feels to me like a modern game given a Star Wars skin. Overall I am reminded of the rebooted Tomb Raider games with perhaps a dash of Jedi Outcast in tone. It’s also one of the SW games that makes the lightsaber more like a general baseball bat style weapon that apparently everyone can magically repel.

Am I doing something wrong?

1995 faces VHS box
1995 widescreen vhs faces boxset VHS
1997 gold SE VHS set pan n scan
1997 silver widescreen SE VHS set x2
TPM VHS + clamshell case with lenticular cover
AOTC VHS

Bought the 2004 DVD set day one September 2004. I felt destroyed inside after watching them which set me on a lifelong quest for proper film presentation. I finally gave the set away to my sister a few years ago.

Fox Special Widescreen edition Laserdiscs for ANH, ESB and ROTJ
Technidisc reissue pressing of ANH
JSC for ANH
Definitive Collection Boxset complete, no rot and with Leia welding
ROTJ Faces
TPM Japanese exclusive LD theatrical cut and Dolby EX audio

DVDs for TPM, AOTC, ROTS

I finally picked up the 2011 BD set in a local used shop for the extras discs as it was literally dirt cheap. Only downside is it’s missing the one film that actually fine on BD which is ROTS.

Until there is OOT on disc or something better than the 2011 release with actual new extras of importance then I’m done for now. I would like to get the other two JSC discs, the other two Faces discs, some of the earlier pan n scan VHS and LD releases and perhaps even the widescreen pre Faces VHS release.

You’d be surprised how many things either do or don’t get DCPs made-and then its a crapshoot if they ever screen them anywhere. On the flipside many things exist in 4K DCPs or restorations and never get a disc release such as Disney sitting on 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea for seven years.

I’m quite surprised that these aren’t merely the 2011 BD masters tweaked a bit. I’m not going to get Disney+ but it does seem like they at least used 97SE materials as a base source to make a higher res scan and this is likely the Reliance stuff we’ve been debating over for some time now finally getting its first appearance. The color in the shots posted so far is remarkably improved and closer to theatrical presentations that we are aware of.

I’m almost positive this is what will show up in new BD/4K releases. Still no OOT for now but if that does happen at some point it will likely be treated as a limited exclusive in a boxset release and be a non-researched presentation that will re-open the GOUT floodgates. What would the sequel be called? DisGOUT, GOUT+, MouseGOUT…possibilities are endless.

True but that doesn’t stop them from doing lower res scans back to digital or not so good DIs with inherent limitations before making the final DCPs to be shown on screens where the digital playback system isn’t the greatest etc. Additionally most modern film stocks bend over backwards to mimic digital instead of playing to their strengths and even more heartbreaking is the very small amount of people who accurately know how to work in the analog domain.

It’s all down to the entire chain not being up to a good standard simply due to the industry wanting to keep costs down across the board. Ironic for a series that wound up spearheading the THX process which was supposed to combat this problem.

I need to find a good site to organize my DVD and Blu-ray collection.

But LD on the other hand…
I forgot to post a link in here so here goes:
http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?action=list&user=sdraper

I’ve documented my Laserdisc collection in video form on my regular channel…it’s really weird to think I’m now close to 1,000 titles! These are the additions for last month:
https://youtu.be/rruLkbbFHzk

Oh yes, George admired Disney for sure and was at Disneyland either on opening or close to opening as a kid as evidenced in the recent Jones bio.
The foundation was laid with Star Tours, Captain EO and the SW licencing at the parks. Everyone involved should have realized this was not the same kind of deal. It killed me enough that Disney sold SW like crazy in the parks back then but now its just soulless.

This all ties back into the notion of how George wanted to build up the ranch and company to be the ultimate anti-establishment filmmaking collective to do what Zoetrope couldn’t achieve and then got lost in the interim and forgot why he was making films in the first place. I think Zombie in SECRET HISTORY was the first to really delve into this wholeheartedly and show just how far back this problem ran. The recent GL: a Life biography by Brian Jay Jones does a great job at setting all of this stuff in a historical context in one place.

We all talk about the loss of guiding voices plus filters of dissenting opinions and this is absolutely true.
This is why projects never happened or eventually did and thus for example RADIOLAND MURDERS was finally done in the early 90’s over-managed by George and turned in to a partial tech showcase.

Eventually the paradigm switched from telling great stories and trying new things to simply building and always fortifying the company. Thus nothing happened post Indy outside of Willow. Every other thing was revisiting the past while playing with new tech toys and methodologies. Young Indy in many ways was the groundwork and dry run for the Prequels and has most of the same inherent issues.
Jympson was the original editor and the issue was that he cut everything in a traditional assembly manner which made everything run long and not work whatsoever.

To be honest I’ve never seen Willow in its entirety. The OOP status kept me from doing so for a while and I never watched the LD because its rot city. I need to finally sit down and watch it.