captainsolo

One actual calibration question: How in the heck does one do some kind of setting for LD without an actual video essentials LD setting disc? I've tried every setting and still wind up tweaking all levels for every different disc.

Is there a recommended setting or ballpark guess for contrast, color, and brightness?

I actually got a better looking LD picture on the old curved little 19" crt I had previously. This set seems to magnify any and all flaws. Especially on 2.35 films in CLV. Very noisy in places.

Those strips show off the superiority of the 35mm and further underline how all the video versions have paled in comparison to the theatrical prints. This may be the only way to get fine detail back in the SE.

The G'kar is heavily filtered, and was going to be used as the base ROTJ for MR's superset because the TB version was very soft and noisy.

Of the LD captures, LeeThorogood's PAL version looked great in samples, but I never saw the whole thing. The superiority of PAL LD technology really helps, especially in motion, and you don't have to deal with de-interlacing. I think that this is really the best LD image that is possible.

The samples posted by DJ on his SE LD capture V2 thread were also quite good for NTSC LD footage.

Also, for ANH at least you may want to see if some copies have this phenomenon I noticed: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/97SE-Pink-Tint/topic/12667/

Typically s-video wants to use the player's own comb filters which will be inferior to things nowadays. Composite will bypass this and use whatever the player is hooked to. However, some players will have pretty good filters or the hdtv will have none so it really just depends on which is better case by case.

I've tried both several times and usually don't notice much if any difference.

Nope. The previously released films are the exact same discs with new labels glued on. Same menus, transfers everything. Also, the Cork-Scivally docus on the 9 titles newly released are NOT upgraded to HD.

It's been done, and real LD fans buy all kinds of line doublers and scalers to have the best image possible.

I think they'd look okay depending on player/setup but of course you're going to have all the format's limitations magnified. If you've got a player, see what a disc looks like on your TV. That will tell you most of all. Try with composite and s-video, though composite will give a better image on modern displays.

Also keep in mind each player has a different quality, with some being better in image than others.

I went the route of getting a late model CRT set via craigslist, and actually got mine for free.

Here's my thoughts and the screencap comparisons on the unreleased 9:

captainsolo said:

Okay, here goes:

YOLT
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146293/picture:0

OHMSS
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146305/picture:0

DAF
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146309/picture:0

The Spy Who Loved Me
Set 1
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146533
Set 2
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146534

Octopussy
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146326/picture:0

AVTAK

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146331

The Living Daylights
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146334/picture:0

Goldeneye
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146274/picture:0

Goldeneye vs. HDTV:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146323

Tomorrow Never Dies
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146280/picture:0

 

What we're seeing here are some general tweaks, with vast amounts of picture detail for the ones with a 4K scan, and a relatively unimpressive look for those from the video masters.

YOLT looks far improved, and I'm quite surprised at how well these caps look. It isn't fully there with the 60's Technicolor look but it is a thousand times better than the UE. It also reveals that some of these transfers have contrast boosting.

OHMSS is along similar lines, color miles better but still not fully accurate. That said the boosting is far worse here:

ZE COUNT SAIS YU SHOULD HAFF A VERR NICE SUNTAN SAIR HILLARY!

Also it has vertical lines in places as have been seen on YOLT and a few other titles in this remastered series.

DAF was one of the few stunning UE titles, and I was looking forward to see how it made the jump to BD. I still don't know what to make of it. The colors are different, the blacks are very deep, detail incredible but overall the image appears different. What this could be is detail and visuals coming off the negative that haven't been seen since 1971 theatrical prints, but I'm not so sure.

To my eyes it appears that on these early titles the BD team tried to go for a general look more akin to Technicolor printing of the era. While not quite successful, it is commendable that they tried to somewhat represent the film's intended visuals, despite their favoring of contrast. And again, on DAF I still don't know.

 

Then we come to the problem child. TSWLM has looked horrible on video since it's fist appearance on disc/tape. The print was always worn, hazy, washed out in places and never provided an experience of a lavish Bond adventure. The UE made massive color shifts and changes in addition to being riddled with edge enhancement. So, since this was still an "unrestored" title coming from a video master I wasn't expecting anything other than heartbreak again.

I don't know how they did it. Some kind of magic has been worked here, because this is the best Spy has ever looked on video. Gone almost completely are the color problems, gone is the massive EE and fine detail is actually present. The film was shot with quite a bit of diffusion and soft lighting, and this is finally showing up for the first time in ages. Colorwise this is pretty accurate, and further underlines all the inherent flaws of the UE.

OP and AVTAK look like more detailed versions of their UE counterparts. AVTAK still has the heavily cropped teaser opening and slight cropping for the feature. Both retain their modernist color leanings.

TLD looks like a higher res version of the UE, and for that I'm glad. This UE like LTK was a little different in color but all for the better in most cases. Glad they didn't fix what wasn't broken.

Goldeneye looks to be a big problem again, but not for the reason you would think. The cropping has been fixed...but at a cost. The film has been riddled with DVNR so much that even in screencaps the compressed and cropped HDTV cap blows it away. I was personally stunned to see the amount of grian in motion on the HDTV version a short while ago and looked forward to the BD just for this. Guess not!

TND looks rather bland actually, just 1080p over 480p.

Singles over time with custom covers for me.

On the LD front, I watched TMWTGG which I bought still sealed. It is indeed the same source as the SE DVD with the cue marks all intact. The titles are uncropped, and this appears to be the intended 1.85 framing as opposed to the DVD's 1.78:1. Color was perfect with the film having an overall light grain cast. Sound equally good with the mono finally having some breathing room in PCM. Barry's score really comes across along with the wonderful lower tones of Lee's voice.

Nice to finally see the rarest of the LDs. I'll post on AVTAK and TLD later.

Okay, here goes:

YOLT
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146293/picture:0

OHMSS
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146305/picture:0

DAF
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146309/picture:0

The Spy Who Loved Me
Set 1
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146533
Set 2
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146534

Octopussy
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146326/picture:0

AVTAK

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146331

The Living Daylights
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146334/picture:0

Goldeneye
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146274/picture:0

Goldeneye vs. HDTV:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146323

Tomorrow Never Dies
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146280/picture:0

What we're seeing here are some general tweaks, with vast amounts of picture detail for the ones with a 4K scan, and a relatively unimpressive look for those from the video masters.

YOLT looks far improved, and I'm quite surprised at how well these caps look. It isn't fully there with the 60's Technicolor look but it is a thousand times better than the UE. It also reveals that some of these transfers have contrast boosting.

OHMSS is along similar lines, color miles better but still not fully accurate. That said the boosting is far worse here:

ZE COUNT SAIS YU SHOULD HAFF A VERR NICE SUNTAN SAIR HILLARY!

Also it has vertical lines in places as have been seen on YOLT and a few other titles in this remastered series.

DAF was one of the few stunning UE titles, and I was looking forward to see how it made the jump to BD. I still don't know what to make of it. The colors are different, the blacks are very deep, detail incredible but overall the image appears different. What this could be is detail and visuals coming off the negative that haven't been seen since 1971 theatrical prints, but I'm not so sure.

To my eyes it appears that on these early titles the BD team tried to go for a general look more akin to Technicolor printing of the era. While not quite successful, it is commendable that they tried to somewhat represent the film's intended visuals, despite their favoring of contrast. And again, on DAF I still don't know.

Then we come to the problem child. TSWLM has looked horrible on video since it's fist appearance on disc/tape. The print was always worn, hazy, washed out in places and never provided an experience of a lavish Bond adventure. The UE made massive color shifts and changes in addition to being riddled with edge enhancement. So, since this was still an "unrestored" title coming from a video master I wasn't expecting anything other than heartbreak again.

I don't know how they did it. Some kind of magic has been worked here, because this is the best Spy has ever looked on video. Gone almost completely are the color problems, gone is the massive EE and fine detail is actually present. The film was shot with quite a bit of diffusion and soft lighting, and this is finally showing up for the first time in ages. Colorwise this is pretty accurate, and further underlines all the inherent flaws of the UE.

OP and AVTAK look like more detailed versions of their UE counterparts. AVTAK still has the heavily cropped teaser opening and slight cropping for the feature. Both retain their modernist color leanings.

TLD looks like a higher res version of the UE, and for that I'm glad. This UE like LTK was a little different in color but all for the better in most cases. Glad they didn't fix what wasn't broken.

Goldeneye looks to be a big problem again, but not for the reason you would think. The cropping has been fixed...but at a cost. The film has been riddled with DVNR so much that even in screencaps the compressed and cropped HDTV cap blows it away. I was personally stunned to see the amount of grian in motion on the HDTV version a short while ago and looked forward to the BD just for this. Guess not!

TND looks rather bland actually, just 1080p over 480p.

Singles over time with custom covers for me.

Tobar said:

They need to bring Kasdan back.

YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

One could make a great Indy film with Indy being older. Then again, I'm the person whose favorite scene of all three films is the Cairo bar so what do I know?

I don't know about "official" and especially since we've started going down the road of IB and LPP print differences. For me even though it is admittedly off in some shots, the original for me is best represented by the Technidisc. ESB via the magnificent PSB, and ROTJ uhh...something?

Interesting tidbit FF: It is reputed that the wipe at the end of FRWL is actually not present on the initial CBS/Fox VHS release. I'm currently looking for a copy to verify, but it is supposed to be the copy with Connery firing the flare gun on the cover:

Back to your regularly scheduled endless transfer discussions:

Just received three Lasers in the mail, ironically three of the rarest titles: AVTAK, TLD and the rarest TMWTGG.

I'll do full on reviews later but here are some quick 1st impressions:

AVTAK and TLD had the most impressive original audio tracks on the UEs. AVTAK has tremendous bass in particular and I was curious as to how the LDs would sound.

In a word, flawless. The compression down to 192 kpp/s 2.0 ac3 must have done something to bloat the bass, because on the LD AVTAK is fully defined with an incredible spatial definition for Dolby Stereo. The bass is much more refined and wipes the floor with the DVD's 2.0 audio.

TLD is perhaps even better mixed, with the dialogue crisp and the spatial definition even better.

Of course the coloring looks spot on on both. Really nice to see the original color and lighting back after being stuck with UEs for so long. Both also have their original opening logos.

I'm still debating on TMWTGG-It's still sealed in the shrinkwrap and looks like it was just off the LD store shelf.

Cost? $13 shipped. Not buying Bond50? Priceless. ;)

AntcuFaalb said:

I prefer watching movies on my 36" GE CRT TV :-D

It weighs 148lb., but it doesn't hurt my eyes like my 1080p LG LCD TV does.

I agree actually. LCD and PC gives more eye strain and far quicker than my CRT.

Currently I flop between my dedicated setup which has a 36" Sony Trinitron CRT flat panel connected to LD composite and PS3 via component. My sound goes to my Sony STR-DE675 multichannel receiver (100 watts per channel) and goes to a Klipsch sound system (KG.5 bookshelf speakers for L/R and surrounds, KV-1 center and 8" SWV for subwoofer)

My PC setup is a midlevel Compaq PC which I use MPC-HC 64 bit and VLC for video, configured the realtek audio drivers correctly, and have a Logitech X-540 5.1 speaker set. The monitor is also a Compaq 16:9 lcd display which can do just over 720p.

Headphones are currently Sennheiser HD-202s.

My problem is that I get better sound on my main setup, but a more detailed picture on my PC. On almost all the OT projects I wind up watching on PC first to see everything, and later on the CRT for more of an experience factor.

Since my budget is pretty strapped at the moment, I've considered putting my tiny monitor on a stool in my little HT. ;) What I really need is a stand that can take the weight of my behemoth Sony which clocks in about 240 lbs. It's still on the floor as of now, which makes viewing angle a pain. (But not as bad as moving the thing up a flight of stairs!!)

http://www.play.com/DVD/Blu-ray/4-/35739618/0/James-Bond-GoldenEye/ListingDetails.html

Come on, it's not that hard people!!

This is gorgeous.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Asaki said:

Also, speaking of the 35mm...I was wondering about something we were talking about on the blog before, and if the film (PSB) really is supposed to be that blue, or if it was to compensate for  the yellow of the bulbs they used back then (like how most of the Star Wars print they have is blue). I noticed a lot of the bonus trailer was very blue also, like a lot of shots from ANH that aren't usually tinted like that.

I didn't do much of anything to try and clean up the bonus.  The colors seemed really inconsistent - fixing one snippet would throw something else out of whack.  So I pretty much left it alone.  Overall it's too purple, I think (usually).

Hard to say on the blue-ness of Hoth.  After Ady's color correction it looks pretty much how it does when projected.  But I'm not as discerning when it comes to color balance - which is why I didn't try and do it myself.

The Hoth scenes actually looked right to me for the first time in a long time. White snow with hints of blue, and not the large blue coloring we are used to until the "night" scenes in the heavy snow conditions.

The bonus does appear to be a bit shifted, and I agree that it primarily looks to be a bit purplish.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I consider it a minor miracle that I'm able to grab the sound as cleanly as I can.  These old projectors are hardly what one would call hi-fi.  And I don't know of any other mechanism for grabbing 16mm audio.

Miracle indeed. I only have 16mm experience with my schools wonky old Eiki and the sound on it was..shall we say less than stellar...if it didn't want to eat the film that is. ;)

There is actually one difference between the PG and PSB with respect to sound... the PG I captured with an EIKI, and the PSB I captured with an Elmo. Some sources on the web say that the Eiki has slightly richer sound, but the Elmo has a more stable film path.  The Elmo is easier to work with and more reliable, but I'm not totally sure which one has better sound, all else being equal.  I think the Elmo turned out better when comparing PG and PSB.

With my experience, you're probably right. I couldn't ever get that darned Eiki to even want to run properly. Lost quite a few reels of randomness trying to do so.

Still grinning about that bonus. Was that actually 16? Didn't think they made anything 16 for the SE era.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Can you be more specific regarding the "darker black boxes"?  I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about.  If I knew I might be able to figure it out.

Wrong wording, sorry. I meant transparent.  There's these pesky little transparent vertical stripes on the left third that appear in the same place in different levels of visibility throughout all three reels at different points. They're more visible in motion.

TServo2049 said:

hairy_hen is right, the 70mm mix is only very slightly different from the 35mm. The mix on this print is an entirely different beast, made *after* the 70mm 6-track and 35mm stereo mixes (just like the "Story of" LP and the Super 8 digest version). It's obvious that Lucas and Ben Burtt kept tinkering with the mixing throughout 1980, even after the 35mm version was out, and that they carried over some of their changes into the SE in '97.

As I've said before, some of the confusion about the content of the 70mm may stem from the fact that the 8mm, which shares some sound variations with the SE, used the 70mm cut as its picture element. However, the soundtrack was put together *after* the 35mm mix; for example, even though it has the 70mm edit of the Rebel fleet establishing shot, you can still hear some of the tracked "Yoda and the Force" music that was added when the scene was extended.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand: I've started watching PSB, and I haven't gotten as far as any of you, but I noticed another difference. When we see the snowspeeders taking off (after the scene of R2, "Imperial walkers on the north ridge", etc.), there is no music.

In all other mixes previously accounted for, the music starts during that scene of the speeders taking off. In this mix, the music doesn't cut in until the next shot of the walkers.

I had no idea that this was anything more than a mono fold-down of the standard 35mm stereo mix, until I got to that scene and thought "hey, isn't there supposed to be music here?" Then I switched to the stereo track and, sure enough, there was music there that's missing from the 16mm. I immediately pulled up this thread and saw that you all had already found other differences. Good work, everybody!

I noticed that with the speeders almost instantly. The cue is completely gone on this mix.

It seems as if the score and some effects are partially muted in places here, which allows for the more buried effects to take center stage. A very different and interesting listen even if it wasn't an official mixing job.

That said, it was very kind to sync in the 1980 stereo that is the familiar track for most.

The wait was completely worth it. I knew the print was much better than PG, but I never expected it to be this much better.  This combined with Ady's corrections and the alternate mono audio provides for the best ESB I've seen since childhood. Like the PG this is mostly due to the feeling generated of experiencing the film instead of just sitting down to watch the GOUT or something for the billionth time. There are new things to find in this transfer and having a different mix really threw me off initially.

But with PSB, you also get the feeling of ESB's probing into the dark murky depths of the Star Wars universe. At least that's how I can best describe it.

Imagine it's September 1980, and your college film society has finally gotten the 16mm rental print after being shorted on the waiting list at the beginning of the year...

Curiosity has gotten the better of me, so here are my one or two ?s.

-What exactly causes the highs to warble and distort so badly on the optical tracks? This was thankfully very very minimal in PSB, but of course all over the place on PG.

-Is there any reason for the darker block boxes on the left third of the frame on and off throughout the film? Most notable on end credits etc. It's just something that stuck out to my eye for some reason.

-Why oh why couldn't they ever get rid of sssssssssssibilance? ;)

I also liked the rounded frame edges this time around. It gave a more pleasing look than the PG's edges.

6 days shy of 1 year 7 months. Again well worth the wait. As with the PG before it, the PSB is magnificent in its glorious mouse droppings.

Tobar said:

Just got back from the Indy movie marathon. Twas fun and the time seemed to fly by.

Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)

Exact same "print" as the IMAX presentation. I kind of liked it better outside of IMAX actually.

Thanks for saying so. I thought it would look better in standard 4K.

Temple of Doom (1984)

The picture quality for this was nowhere near as nice as it was for Raiders. There was TERRIBLE aliasing all over every opening credit. As well as on the picture in general, I noticed it most around characters noses when they were against light backgrounds.

The Last Crusade (1989)

The aliasing was even worse on the opening credits for this one.

People have noticed this on review discs, caps etc. It's supposedly been there since theatrical release.

I was feeling a bit nostalgic and realized that I hadn't seen this cut in years and hadn't yet sat through my LD copy.

Blade Runner: The Director's Cut

Holy crap, at times I though it was a DVD. This is a stunning title for the format, with image that is FAR superior to the 1997 snapper DVD that I originally saw the film on. And the sound...clear with everything intact and very light use of the surround channel as was common for early Dolby Stereo.

The only problem is the side breaks. The disc is full CAV on four sides, but they placed the breaks VERY AWKWARDLY. There's a break right in the middle of Chew's lab, and Zhora runs away from Deck into a SIDE BREAK!

The only problem I find with the disc besides this, and they aren't quite as bad as they sound, is the inherent flaws of the DC which misses the violence from the International cut and the fact that I may just be more used to "I want more life father"nowadays. No hockey masked geisha tube dancers. :(

I checked against the 97 disc, the Criterion CLV of the international and the archival DVD. This bests the former two-lacking the flaws and sound remix of the DVD and the in comparison boosted slightly smeary color of the Criterion. (though having the CAV may be different) It also appears a bit more 1982-ish to me than the archival version.

Immortal classic. If you own a LD player, you need this disc. If you have an old CRT tv lying around...you should probably get this disc. If you are in any way nostalgic for the days of watching BR on video formats late at night with that classic analog fuzziness, you need this disc.

A better one has been had. Though what exactly are a bunch of street thug/children/hoodlum/jawas going to do with a Voight-Kampff machine??

Getting the same message but extraction seems ok. Will know tomorrow for sure when I do my double feature of mouse droppings. ;)

Picture this: it's September 1980 and your local smaller theater still has a print of ESB...that they decided to run some more as a filler for the new film they didn't get...

EDIT: Menu works..can I say I got goosebumps?

OMG THAT BONUS! COMPLETELY UNEXPECTED! MY FAVORITE!

Double edit: thanks for re-upping guys. People need this badly.

I couldn't help it and peeked on Christmas morning...the empire has struck back.

zombie84 said:

Heck, shipping is the easy part. I mean, who cares if you have to spend $300 dollars on a freight train shipment. The harder part is how you transport a 1-tonne wooden crate meauring over six feet tall into your home? You literally need a forklift, and at least a cube van, and then a second forklift to bring it into your home. That's how they installed these in the arcades. And that's assuming it's all in working order too. On top of the $2000 you already spent.

The Dave and Busters near me has the SW Trilogy Arcade bench-seat model, so I figure dropping $2 a month there is better than the god-awful expense and headache of actually trying to buy, ship and install one of these in my home. It would simply be impossible. And forget it if there is even a single stair. These jumbo deluxe versions are simply unfit for residential use, unfortunately.

lol! I found it hard enough to move my massive 36" sony CRT flat panel up to a second story...these huge cabinets would kill someone. At least the projection models have detachable screens.

It is better to find a local machine, but more often than not the difficulty will be cranked up. This isn't much of a problem but what makes it impossible at times is when owners take it upon themselves to rig the joystick and buttons to not work properly and thus make it harder for the player to achieve high scores. The one near me has a rigged joystick, fire trigger and they replaced the screen with an hdtv. The image is fantastic, but the edges are even more cropped than the normal 50" version so this makes hitting the edge figures in the later levels nearly impossible.

The Supermodel emulation is promising, but still laggy and buggy at this point.

You can't tell that I play this machine too much...even so I only know a few of the hidden secrets for bonus points.

zombie84 said:

I have to say, TOD looks incredible from the shots I've seen so far. Very natural, very similar to prints and former video transfers, and it just looks stunning with the detail and everything. This is actually my favourite film of the bunch, so even if I have a few minor issues with Raiders, TOD looks as close to flawless as I could have hoped for.

I'm glad this looks as good as it does. The Raiders issues aside, this would be my main reason for buying this set and complimentary KOTCS coaster/frisbee/dog poo scooper.

djchaseb said:

Getting my pregame on with Puggo Grande

DITTO!! The anticipation is killing me. Seriously.

Mavimao said:

Puggo, I know you were thinking of making HD versions of your captures - are you still considering this? I think these projects would benefit from a more modern codec seeing as the grain and dirt play havoc with mpeg2. Also, because the initial image is in scope, there should be adequate vertical resolution for a good uprezzed HD image, seeing as a scope 2.35 film is 817 pixels tall in 1080p - 544 pixels in 720p.

IIRC puggo said that this would require a new workprinter.

Oh, you really don't want to get me started on this...wait, TOO LATE!!

Zombie's post made me do the ebay search I swore I'd never do again: Star Wars Trilogy arcade. Couldn't there ever be free shipping? ;) Too many hours have been spent on these machines. By me. The bench model, the large screen w/seat model, the stand up only model and even a custom extra large screen version with a full gaming seat rig thingy. But the best one I've ever played is the Namco version standard size with seat attached. No messing with bad joysticks and one can actually hit everything on the screen edges-unlike all the large screen versions.

I miss seeing and playing these machines everywhere.

Aha! Wait, I thought they were still utilizing the Lowry transfers...why does everything have to be so darned hush hush. Comparisons on TOD and LC look to be the same between sources for DVD and BD.

And I was under the impression that Raiders was one of the last restorations overseen at Paramount by Ron Smith before he...left. In fact this was my major source of belief in the new work, but now that may not be the case.