I haven't tried the BD yet, but it should be the same as the mix found on the 2005 Masterpiece Collection DVD, which was noisy with inherent hum and occasional crackle. From what some have said I think it should be the same source as the old LD/VHS. The later 90's VHS and Beta releases may have a better condition version.
Of the 4 picture comparison sample earlier, the JSC I think nails it overall. I love that disc.
team_negative1 said:
Just as a better comparison, here is the Raw LPP vs GOUT for the intro, and flyover again.
========================================================
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2ThzVBezL2VIg5ClcJ
And just to change things up, here's the very end ceremony before the credits kick in.
========================================================
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7HOVchKzzJQUS5Cldk
Its interesting to watch the movie synced up, and see where the edits line up, and the framing of the picture.
Team Negative1
This just goes to show how badly that IP sucked the life out of the picture. It is drab and dull compared to the print source, and further reiterates my point of not being able to always go by an IP or negative source for proper coloring. You can tell that George had the look of the release prints in mind when the 2004 master was made, but that the wrong methods were used to obtain a horrendous re-approximation of that look.
Audio samples would be great! Thanks for the update.
EyeShotFirst said:
Any good underrated 50's to 70's films, preferably films depicting the period in which they were filmed, or depicting a period within that time frame?
I like that period of film making, and like watching films set in those times. I'd just like to know about the films that aren't popular, I'm also counting films that have gone on to become cult classics as too popular.
So many to list...I'll try and come up with some.
DrCrowTStarwars said:
Well one of my favorite film of the 1950s is the Billy Wilder film Ace in the Hole. I don't know if it is well known but I am the only person I know who has seen it so I am guessing it wasn't a huge hit when it came out. It's set in the time period it was made,the 1950s and it a great film. It some times also goes by the name The Big Carnival. It's worth checking out IMO.
Kirk Douglas's best performance, Billy Wilder's best film..and that's saying a whole hell of a lot, gorgeous B&W cinematography, dialogue that'll make your mouth water, and easily the most scathing film noir ever made. An unforgettable masterpiece that is one of the few times someone has actually taken an unflinching gaze at the inherent pitfalls of our society. One of the GREAT films. It took me years to see as a kid and I will never forget it.
I finally went through the Jimmy Stewart-Anthony Mann westerns, and again found that the more classic Westerns I watch the more and more I find that they represent the best cinematic canvas for moral parables.
In Mann I found a kindred spirit to my own tastes of narrative storytelling; these pictures look, sound and feel real instead of breathing canned studio air. He definitely deserves to be in the high pantheon of the revered directors, as some of these are masterpieces, and are extremely overlooked.
Winchester '73-A masterpiece, perfect narrative that finally showed the West as the gritty and desolate place it was. Here is where Jimmy Stewart finally broke free of his pre-war image fully and it is a doozy. He plays variations of this nasty embittered character in the four following films with Mann. This film was such an unexpected hit that it revived the failing genre while accidentally promoting the star percentage system deal where the star receives box office percentage points in lieu of a large salary.
4 balls out of 4. One of those rare perfect films.
Bend of the River-A more typical Western, this time dealing with a former outlaw attempting to go straight by leading a group of settlers to the new territories. But the tone is just gorgeous; the film is full of moral temptations, greed, murder and the plot takes quite a few turns that keeps the feature engaging throughout. Wonderful color cinematography.
4 balls out of 4. It isn't fully perfect, but so damn good that you find it staying in your memory.
The Naked Spur-a small drama focusing on a handful of central characters much like a stage play. The film revolves around the Stewart character who has tracked outlaw Robert Ryan to the ends of the earth for a bounty, no matter what the costs, and now must take him back while grappling with two others who have claim to this prize, the crafty needling outlaw, the woman who loves the outlaw and his own blackened heart.
This is a complete story with a beginning and end that reflects the entire purpose of the typical Western film. It feels less like a simple movie and more like great literature.
4 balls out of 4. One of the great westerns.
The Far Country-the least of the five, but still perfectly engaging and watchable. Here Jimmy is a complete loner who is forced to deal with those who would manipulate settlers in the gold territory of the Yukon, but perhaps more importantly his own soul. A good little picture made all the better by Stewart and on location photography.
4 balls out of 4.
The Man From Laramie-A Western King Lear of sorts, in early Cinemascope on a vast canvas. Dark, violent, honest and a narrative that rings true form a truly great picture and sadly the last of these incredible Westerns.
4 balls out of 4.
Night Passage-A film supposed to have been directed by Mann, who thought the story was too silly and opted out. This is a typical Western, mostly forgettable save for the few moments where the Mann-Stewart world appears for an instant. It's thankfully shrot enough that it doesn't really grate on one's nerves, but it does feature several instances of Jimmy playing the accordion. Oh dear.
2.5 balls out of 4.
Shenandoah-this feels more like TV than a movie at times, the direction is not very engaging, but instead of being a Civil War picture, it is more of a melodrama that focuses on a family that struggles to keep out of the war despite being in the middle of Virginia. There are some surprising bits of violence that contribute to an anti-war feeling, and of course a strong central Stewart performance. I just wish the film were better overall and less simple standard fare. It also seems to be the direct inspiration for The Patriot.
3 balls out of 4.
This is one of those we never expected. HD would be a must as the materials have been sitting there untouched. It also means I can finally dump my TVLand and other capped cut episodes.
Just incredible.
The Searchers 1956 color timing technicolor ib blu-ray laserdisc.
I get sidetracked.
Thanks for the read HH, that makes sense though it did go a bit over my head admittedly. ;)
Great news on the Uni Monster front PDB, I look forward to hearing those comparisons. I only have the Dracula and Mummy VHS releases from the "Faces" VHS series.
As for Batman Returns, the Dolby Stereo SR definitely needs capturing, as 99.99% of theaters played this track, the WB archive 35mm print I saw in December played this SR track and had no 5.1, and the 5.1 is based from this 4-track mix. They seem to have gotten the go ahead to mix in the new 5.1 format and played with their exiting mix. Comparing the LD 4ch matrix to the early DVD 5.1 shows everything as the same, except for overall mixing qualities. The 5.1 is obviously more discrete, but the Stereo SR feels more natural and has a better low end I think. Plus being a studio transfer you lose the inherent deficiencies of 35mm optical. (The print had a good deal of sibilance and upper frequency distortion, especially in the end title section.)
How wrong is the photo above? ;)
The argument can be successfully made both ways, with the main problem being exactly who owns what rights and for how long. But that being said I think an OOT release of some type can and will happen...at some unforeseen point. Remember, the entire 1966 Batman series is being released, so anything is possible.
Disney has been doing restorations and work on their properties virtually nonstop since first getting the bug in the early 90's. Of course their revisionism with their classic animated titles is beyond reprehensible but as far as the live action materials go, the Mouse is on the forefront of properly maintaining and preserving films.
So really they're in about the best hands they could be in provided that someone actually takes the initiative to do so. Knightmessenger's posts on the necessity of a new scan for newer hi-res versions are actually spot-on, it would be something that would have to be done in order to have a better source than the horribly outdated 2K SE source scan and the pointless 1080p downrezzed and crayon scribbled video master.
(BTW Blade Runner has never looked as good as the Final Cut 35mm print. The BD is pitiful in comparison.)
Let it be a Vault release. A licensed title for a boutique label (Criterion could practically do it with good results in house), even a MOD release...just let it out there with no frills...and websites would crash because of demand. Just don't expect things like multiple audio tracks unless we do it. (Despite LFLs claims of having all this material digitally archived within fingertips!!!!! ARGH!)
You don't think they'd take input from a coalition of mad researchers would you? It's not like we don't have the most vast and detailed amount of SW version research ever assembled.
You could probably tie it back to Silence of the Lambs; that's what I always think of with those villain-in-cell-escaping scenarios.
SilverWook said:
The studio would have found a way to wiggle out of it if there was enough money to be had.
Look how Beneath the Planet of the Apes ended, and Fox still found a way to make sequels.
Best ever example. If I ever teach screenwriting, this was the example I plan to use.
Well that and the incredible story of how James Bond returned in You Only Live Twice to a Spy Who Loved Me which became The Spy Who Loved Me in a Moonraker aka Goldfinger '77/Thunderball '79. The rough elements are the same sadly.
No it's 100% official, just that the plastic has a bluish hue which I've seen on some discs occasionally.
I got the whole SE set at once and this is the only disc with issues. It won't play in anything.
Scoundrels was an odd read. Part of me really loved it, and part of me had trouble with following the narrative which kinda wasn't always that gripping.
Far better than the last attempt at "classic SW" material, the really weird Shadows of Mindor, but still not great. However the final bit in the last chapter is outstanding, even if it doesn't make exact sense.
The tried and true good stuff that feels as if it is in the same universe as the films; chiefly the Daley Han Solo trilogy, the Thrawn trilogy, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Jedi Apprentice and the better of the 90's Bantam era.
Toss out the NJO crud. (I still need to try this again and get through NJO onwards.)
But the more simple answer...
Mara Jade.
Done.
Can we just have a Mara movie? Or another book? Or anything?
Pleeeease?
My FYEO SE disc will not play at all in any player whatsoever, read in a PC, and it is completely spotless like a new disc. I can't even open the disc files in my computer. All of my other SE discs work fine, the only difference is that the underside of this disc is bluish looking where all the others are standard silver/clear or goldish.
Is this a sign of disc rot? I've never had a DVD do this in all players, and the disc itself is absolutely spotless with no signs of any defect.
This new resurgence comes from the charges that were originally trumped up, IIRC even the DA at the time has gone on record with the same statement. These "did they/didn't they" issues always taint the artist's career and life, and it always becomes the elephant in the room whenever discussing them.
You can't exactly get around it. For example my mom is still convinced Allen and Polanski are perverts and nothing else. Of course there are many, many extenuating circumstances that prevent such snap judgements, and overall you can't help but feel sorry for all parties involved that this whole thing must be dragged through the mud in big headlines.
Personally, I think these types of charges are about the worst thing that an innocent man can be accused of. Just awful to think about, as I've been reading Errol Flynn's autobiography where he went through a nasty underage rape trial that was simply a political takedown because Warner Bros. hadn't bankrolled the right protection rackets.
Ugh, back to the OT.
The Mankewicz Trilogy:
Diamonds Are Forever, Live and Let Die, The Man With The Golden Gun
All ridiculously brilliant, low key, small scale, pure 70's greatness. LALD is my favorite film of all time.
Ultimate mad balls in a minibus. On Laserdisc obviously.
Point Blank
A classic, and stunningly out there for a studio picture, PB stars the meanest sonofabitch Lee Marvin in a role that is beautifully underplayed. This is an engaging and extremely engrossing picture that is very French New Wave in its construction but ultimately feels a bit hollow.
4 balls out of 4 long hallway corridors where Lee Marvin is walking with no other goal but your death and his 93 grand.
You Can't Take It With You
It may not be real, but it's honest pure Capra magic. Nice to see such iconic actors in different kinds of roles, especially Lionel Barrymore in such a kindly part. And isn't Jean Arthur just adorable??
4 balls out of 4 basement firework factories. One of the great American classics.
The Shop Around the Corner
You could toss all romantic comedies for all I care. This is one of the most heartfelt, endearing, genuine and touching studio pictures ever released. All that is said about the "Lubitsch touch" isn't just hot air. Understandably this film was remade at least several times in various insipid iterations. But this one has a lead dynamic that is unparalleled in genuine feeling.
For all those who think that Jimmy Stewart merely played himself and couldn't act, try to not be on the edge of your seat in the last five minutes of one of the screen's greatest romantic confessionals.
4 balls out of 4. One of the great films.
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Finally got around to seeing this. OH MY GOD! Murder, Death, Madness, Obsession, Alcoholism, Alienation, Science, Morbid humor, 50's underwater photography, Technicolor, serious plotting, an actual narrative scope, three of the screen's finest actors and GIANT SQUID.
This is MY kind of Disney film. Wow. Walt's desire to do something serious and dramatic paid off in dividends. They managed to do the novel straight, come up with new effects to do so, photograph in Technicolor Cinemascope in its very early usage with the problematic lenses, and sell it to children!
This is magical! Honest literary adaptations for children? You can do this and provoke actual deep thoughts? And they let you?
Admittedly the opening 15-20 minutes or so is very slow but as soon as the Nautilus attacks the film just takes off.
4 balls out of 4.
New all time favorite Disney productions ranked:
1. Pinocchio
2. 1950's Zorro series
3. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
4. Everything else.
Pretty sure the revised BD is the old SE master or utilizes a higher generation version of what made the SE.
Recalibrated my CRT with Video Essentials..so of course that means...more 007 transfers obviously!!
ruminations:
1. The Criterion Dr. No is quite similar to the MGM Connery version. Color is rather close with some fluctuation and a general darker feeling found in the print sourced Criterion. Their cropping is a bit tighter, but not always. It is rather a close call, with the MGM being the more technically robust and sharper of the two.
2. The Goldfinger CAV MGM boxset is exactly the same as the Connery CLV version, just in full CAV and perhaps a tiny bit cleaner. The audio is a bit less hissy overall and the titles are still in stereo.
3. Is it just me or does the color on the CAV Thunderball appear a bit muted against the previous copies? I just can't get away from that deep saturation on the 1989 disc.
4. Saturation seems perfect on YOLT, and with a bit of contrast reduction I think it would match a print.
5. What in the hell caused OHMSS to lose scenes on the SE DVD?
6. SE and BD. They bleached the life out of DAF. Twice. Damn mad professor in a minibus.
7. LALD looks great on the 1991 disc. But that had dropouts and mistakenly placed the mono isolated score on the right digital track. So they made a 1993 corrected copy...and it's a winner. A bit better than the '91 disc with brilliant color and detail that places it at arguably the peak of the transfers for reproduction of the 70's stock.
The 5.1 remix track is just plain AWFUL.
8. TMWTGG appears to have been shot to where everything has a sort of golden cast...intentional or is this my critic side getting to artistic with the best gem of 1974?
9. They did too much noise reduction on Spy. The trailer has more facial detail than the transfer.
Likely from old HD material stuck a few years back via MGM. I've seen a bit of the 720p version with hdtv logos and it looks like a cross between upscale and higher res master with noise. The Panthers all look rather iffy on DVD, as they are the exact same transfers as LD with tinny lossy audio. The first film got a BD re-issue but it really only tidied up the old scanned material and isn't really benefiting of a Technirama picture.
The audio for all the films (I don't have Revenge or Trail on LD, so I'm assuming for them) is all clearer and more robust on LD due to the PCM and lack of loudness compression. That said they do get a bit noisy and peaky at times but that is to be expected for the age.
Of all, Return has the best transfer because Universal had to do a remastered version of the Image DVD (which itself used their remastered LD transfer) and instead made a nice and very good looking HD master which is probably sitting on a shelf somewhere...or not as it could be up in smoke as is their mid 2000's stunning master of Brides of Dracula that went up in the studio fire.
That diopter example is it--exactly. There are at least two or three shots with it not very hidden as in that example posted from Resevoir Dogs.
Tservo, the print was spotless except for some wear at the reel changes which got a tiny bit obtrusive but not bad. in the last reel there was a small line in the final confrontation a bit but it was very minor.
(Should be all of them IIRC) Reel changes:
Selina shocks clown
Bruce watching Penguin appear on TV in the Manor
Mayor's press conference
Penguin kicking the clown's body into the water
The Batskiboat crashing onto duck
I agree about the Joker reveal. I always thought it should be darker based on the descriptions by people who worked on the production and the general look of the film. Now I'm fully 100% convinced that it is indeed darker.
As for WB Kubrick masters, the color can be all over the place. These were done primarily in 2007 for the SE DVD and eventual early BD releases, and in many ways are outdated. 2001 we have already proven is incorrect, and it differs from SK's preferred dictated timing on the Criterion CAV LD (and 35mm to boot). Barry Lyndon seems okay but is at an odd ratio that caused furor. Lolita looks perfect, Clockwork takes some odd choices and remixed audio, FMJ seems fine, The Shining is an odd one but I can live with the 1.78 masked HD master.
Eyes Wide Shut doesn't feel the way it should and many have claimed the disc looks nothing like the 35mm print version and it also doesn't live up to the primary deep color Kubrick shot it for.
If you look at these:
http://sd.caps-a-holic.com/vergleich.php?vergleichID=469
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews7/batmanreturns.htm
You can see the slight fluctuations between all three. The SE master added more color depth and in places more correct tones due to the scan being far more advanced. It also preserves the frame, as the old master was cropped on all sides. I'll need to check my LD just to make sure there are no differences.
The SR stereo mix is a beast, with huge low end that frequently creeps in, and the LD preserves this without the analog distortion and noise ceiling found on the print version. Especially the sibilance.
The other thing is that the film is surprisingly soft looking. The print had this almost to the point of appearing slightly fuzzy in some scenes. It isn't a sharp picture, in fact looking more like there was continual use of slight diffusion throughout. I think the photography is far more intricate than that of the first film. Burton even imposed some Kane like trick shots with extreme close focus on a subject while maintaining deep focus on a subject in the background. Because of their lack of experience in this it left some telltale errors. (Shot of Schreck coming into Penguin's upstairs lair with Pengy in the extreme foreground writing. Both are in focus, yet if you look closely at about the center of the frame, there is a thick gauze of haziness in that area due to the optical attempting to cover the join of the two separate pieces of film.)
Just got this response from the head projectionist:
I can answer a few of the film questions for you. It is a 1992 Eastman LPP print, good eye. It is also a Dolby Stereo print. We played it in SR which would have done some 2:4 sound matrixing using the equivalent of Pro-Logic. This print came straight from the Warner Brothers archives.
That would explain the cleanliness.
The original film was supposed to have been so dark that people complained. Judging by just how dark Returns was printed, I can completely see that happening. On the untouched still form above you can see all the video nasties from LD era magnified and just how much everything was overbrightened to compensate. This was a common practice then and even is still upheld today. I always have my CRT dialed back a bit to mimic film a bit more, and I do this especially when watching the first film because it feels more appropriate.
I found the bit about the video telecine being brightened in the old Widescreen Review articles on the LDs for both films.
Very basic VLC adjustments on a screenshot of the 1st DVD which utilized the LD/VHS master. Small increase in saturation, contrast, dial the brightness down a bit and slightly increase the gamma. Not perfect but you get the idea.
Wow, that would be really nice as 2 isn't supposed to be released in the near future. Love its DTS-ES track.
Midnight 35mm showing of Batman Returns. Near spotless print.
The darkness and color depth are insane. Take every video copy and dial down the brightness almost all the way, and then you begin to approach just how rich the print is. Words fail me. It is gorgeous. The color timing on top of this is very subtle, and not filled with the overall blues everywhere on video. Then there may have been Technicolor magic to boot.
The sound seemed to go between Dolby SR-D 5.1 and the analog Dolby Stereo. In patches things got very quiet, dialogue was cleaner and things were more discrete. And then it would jump up in volume, feel more confined and punchier, dialogue was noisier with sibilance. So I think it was maybe 30-40 minutes 5.1 and the rest analog Dolby Stereo SR (which is how it was mixed and designed, and honestly IMO a better track)
4 balls out of 4. The best ever live action comic book film. Burton's masterpiece.
The Aluminum Falcon said:
Be interested in the color timing.
Oh god....I expected maybe a few differences...but what played last night was an original print that fully deserved its Technicolor credit. Massive deep blacks, insanely deep and detailed color and full dark shadows so dark that many things were obscured. In other words many of the overall seams were covered up and in many places this looked like a very cold and snowy noir. This is truly a DARK movie.
All home video releases are wrong! The VHS/LD and subsequent DVD were brightened by the colorist as he did the first film in order to work with CRTs of the day. People would have complained it was too dark. The SE transfer restored some of the color depth but is still too bright. The BD improves upon this but is still off and reveals more of the grain removal and over-digitization of this 2004-2005 transfer.
What was most missed in transfer was the subtle overall timing. The Technicolor printing obviously brought out all the color as everything is very warm, dark and richly colored. It is most noticeable in the color blue to simulate cold and winter. On video this is everywhere, but on the print is is very selective and even changes shades slightly across scenes. The shadows in the night are not mere suggestions in the print, they are a character to themselves. The film is so dark that in places shots are obscured by the sheer amount of darkness.
Take the closeup of Batman in the opening fight as he approaches the clown holding Selina. On video there is reasonable composed shadow across the cowl, but in the print there is a full layer of black darkness across the cowl that makes the Batman's appearance seem far more demonic.
Timing is most correct on both masters, each has their own leanings but the original one for LD/DVD may be slightly more accurate as the SE/BD seems to have leanings toward greens and some purples etc. It may be that the Technicolor printing brought out all the blacks and color. In fact this seems more likely, and so I will try and check with the theater as to what kind of print it was.
To simulate the print look, merely take any one of the transfers and turn your brightness down...a lot. Then increase color saturation and dial back contrast a bit.
Mind blowing.
It's A Wonderful Life
Nobody could make pictures like Capra. Nobody. The Criterion CAV is a fine grain archive print and gorgeous.
A film that only gains in significance over time as you grow older. Jimmy gives his tour de force amidst a supporting cast so fully realized that Bedford Falls becomes not merely a setting but a microcosm of the America we lost.
This is the blending of cinema's artificiality with the romance of times past.
And of one the most beautiful things to ever come out of the Dream factory.
4 balls out of 4. One of the greatest films ever made.
The Black Cauldron
What the hell did I just see? I loved the tone, the backgrounds, the art and the story's potential. But it is so cut down, the characters are so one note and completely undeveloped that you just wish the damn thing was over. Gorgeous scope animation designed for 70mm is wasted on a pitiful hodgepodge of story that is on so thin a plot that every single thing is dictated right down to the narrative 101 handbook. And to top that off the characters are drawn in the less refined style Disney practiced throughout the 70's.
This is a mess with an alarming number of great qualities. It should have worked, and probably would be somewhat better with the excised 12 minutes restored. The sound mix is very good, and the dark tone in a fantasy/swashbuckler type film is outstanding. Everything else STINKS.
I want to like this more but as it is the film just. does. not. work.
2.5 balls out of 4 egotistical dreamer young boys who can't even do anything of note and must leave it to the comic relief, obligatory unnecessary princess and magic sword to do everything for him.