canofhumdingers

wow, this thread has exploded again! I haven't been able to keep up with everything but I did see mention of something about recreating the original credits, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not expert, but I know some here have done major research around the various versions of the end credits so I'm sure you got it right.

Getting to the point, I'm wondering, are you recreating the drop shadow on the credits like what mverta posted? I ask b/c, while I have no intention of arguing whether those are authentic of not (as I don't know for certain what his source is) I DO know for certain that not all prints had that. I've seen the end credits of a 1977 35mm print that absolutely did not have the drop shadow. Anyway, sorry if I'm late to the game. I was just curious about this. Can't WAIT for ver. 1.2 or 2.0 or whatever it is now, the stuff you've posted recently looks AWESOME!

So does anyone have a clue what sources are being used for this? I could've sworn I head/read/saw that he was using a technicolor print for this, but have no idea where I got that from... And now I'm not sure what to believe.

yeah, like I said in my first post on the subject, I wasn't sure if it was a problem with a recomposite or crushed blacks.  But I think you've all convinced me it is just crushed blacks (& thanks for the better pics 005).  But good grief!  They're so freaking crushed that now it LOOKS like a bad composite even if it's not!  way to go, lucasfilm...

Although one thing that still makes me question if it's not also a recomp...  Is it just me, or does the ship in the GOUT look like it's nose is pointing just slightly up as compared to the 2004 version?  Look at the pics in 005's post.  I know they're not the exact same frame, but the angle of the ship never really changes in that shot even though it is moving.

How is it the wrong thread?  This is something I noticed in the Despecialized Edition of ESB & I posted it in the ESB DE thread as something for Harmy to possibly fix in the next version he just mentioned doing.

That's exactly my point.  Go watch the GOUT then watch the DE or Adywan's reconstruction (or, presumeably, the actual 2004 version).  In the GOUT the middle of the ship, while possibly in bit of shadow, is still clearly visible as exisiting.  In the 2004 sourced versions, if it's there at all, it's SO dark as to look the same as the outerspace around it, effectively making it look like you're seeing right through the middle of the ship in a really poorly done composite.  The original composite was obviously not so poorly done.

I guess, ever since I started watching preservations sourced from the 2004 material, that shot has really jumped out at me as being screwed up.  I had never seen a version where the middle of the ship was completely invisible before then & it really stood out to me & has bothered me ever since.

Since you mention doing another version of ESB....

There's a shot of Star Destroyers that looks really off to me.  I think it's a problem with the 2004 master (possibly introduced by the crushed blacks, or maybe the resompositing, or maybe some of both).  I've never noticed this until I started watching fan preservations using the 2004 versions as the primary source.  But I'm lead to believe it must be in the original 2004 source material (I've never actually watched the 2004 dvd's themselves) b/c it also appeared in Adywan's ESB 1980 reconstruction.

Anyway, enough background.  Check out the Star Destroyer on the bottom left of the image:

And now a closeup:

And now the same shot from the GOUT:

As you can see, during the creation of the 2004 version, they somehow erased the middle of the ship!  I know the pictures are crappy, but watch it & you'll see quite clearly that the original version the ship was intact with no weird anomoly in its center...  I don't have the 1997 SE anymore to check how it looks there, but I'm betting this problem was created in 2004.

there was a big blue box of vhs tapes.  It wasn't nearly as big as the definitive collection LD set though...

Here's a pic (or two):

Eh, as nice as it would be, that's about as far fetched as lucas changing his mind tomorrow. As None pointed out, the Library of Congress has limited funds & has miles of film on its list to preserve with the highest priority given to the rarest & most volatile films (namely, those on nitrate stock). But at least they did elevate the copyright deposits to protected & moved them to the best vault they've got. That's at least something.

none said:

Erikstormtrooper wrote: I don't understand why the LOC can't copy the existing older prints they have of Star Wars.

First off, Copyright prohibits them. 

The LoC can't do anything until copyright expires on a work.  They might be able to do things in house without telling anyone, but they can't tell anyone and they can't tell anyone.  And if it did get out that they were reproducing anything prior to copyright expiration, heads would roll.

TServo2049 said:

zombie84 said:

Its the copyright ones.

Fun fact: apparently, they were moved to storage and their status was changed to protected in order to save them because of savestarwars.com. The people at LoC are SW fans and are trying to do their best with what they have to work with, it seems.

That is great news indeed, glad that your efforts have made some impact. I assume they protected ESB and ROTJ too? (Even though ESB is apparently extremely faded...)

I guess the way I look at it is, so long as it's properly preserved, we're not in danger of really losing it. Sure I'd like to have a copy just as much as the next guy, but the preservation is the first step. I've no doubt that, in time, the preservation (once it's done, by whomever achieves it) will become more available. It's just a waiting game at that point. & I can be a lot more patient with the satisfaction of knowing that the biggest part (preserving the original films in high quality, preferably reference level) has been done & is out of Lucas's hands.

TServo2049 said:

This is why I agree with Mike Verta's decision not to release his restoration. Better to keep it a private project for the time being, than to jeopardize the mission by making it for-the-public and inviting LFL's intervention...

Can't post it yet (it will actually probably wind up as a nice article on savestarwars.com), but there IS more info to come. And maybe even something positive/hopeful...

It'll likely be late next week at the earliest though.

I agree the article might could use a little tweaking to be more clear. The response I got from the LoC, to me, sounded like they don't have any copies of the films in the NFR and never did. They requested STAR WARS, but were only offered the '97 SE & declined to accept it. I can't speak for the Technicolor print as they haven't mentioned that in my brief correspondence so far. They do have all three films in the copyright depository, but they are in questionable condition at best and are apparently only to be used for copyright disputes. This may answer why they don't just transfer the copyright prints to the NFR...legally, they probably can't.

Actually, on second reading of the article, I think the following paragraph sums up what seems to have happened pretty well... Maybe there's a way to emphasize this part?:

"So, it seems that in the early 1990s when they requested a print Lucas dragged his feet about restoration work (probably because they were starting to work on the Special Edition), and when they finally offered them one it was the 1997 Special Edition. Meanwhile, a privator donor leant a 1977 Technicolor print for archiving, but it couldn't be copied and was returned."

Yeah, I watched the video(s) for the end battles of TPM and also the introduction of JarJar. They were both interesting, but like I said, I don't recall the final (theatrical) cut of the film having jarring music edits. I'd have to go back & watch the original movie again to be able to tell what any of the significant differences actually were in the music, it's been so long...

The only distinct change I noticed was the Darth Maul reveal, and honestly, I like the way the music was edited in the final cut better than the "restored" version. I'm just talking about that specific moment where the doors open & he & the Jedi begin fighting.

It's be a VERY long time since I've watched any of the prequels, but I don't remember finding anything wrong with the score while watching TPM. It was probably the best thing about the movie, actually. I do, however, remember while watching ATOC in the theater for the first time, thinking to myself, "what the $%@$% did they do to the music?" It is a really obvious hack job & sounds terrible. ROTS was not much better.

That being said, of course there's going to be cuts/edits to the score for the final film. And sometimes it's the right choice. I'm sure many of you have seen the ESB duel with original music restored on youtube, but just in case, here's a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brVI-Hy5Y2o

I think it works MUCH better with most of the music cut like it was in the final film. It makes the duel more gripping and emotionally tense/powerful over all with just the right bits of music to really emphasize that feeling at just the right times. The version with the restored music (with all due respect to John Williams) just feels much less powerful as a whole.

As many have already said, it's really hard for me to say what my absolute favorite movie is, but when people ask in casual conversation I usually say ESB followed very closely by Star Wars. I also think it's important to distinguish between our "favorite movies" versus what we consider the "best" movies. If I were to make two seperate lists, there'd be some overlap but also some major differences.

As for some of my all time favorite movies, the following come mind (in no order):

The Empire Strikes Back
Godzilla 1985 (or, better, the original Japanese version simply title "Godzilla")
Star Wars
Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster (again, I prefer the original Japanese cut to the american dub)
Casablanca
King Kong (1933)
Seven Samurai
The Dark Knight
Lawrence of Arabia
Raiders of the Lost Ark

Honorable mentions would go to CEotTK, any action packed Errol Flynn movie, any Kurosawa samurai movie and/or samurai movie starring Toshiro Mifune, any Godzilla movie (but especially the classics from the 50's, 60's, & 70's), so on & so forth...

Ziggy Stardust said:

Easy for you to say, you have a compression glitch named after you.

;-)

I'm glad lucasfilm didn't bother to do any cleaning of the deleted scenes. At least that way people like MagnoliaFan can start from essentially the raw materials with no Lucasfilm screw ups when doing any fan restoration/tinkering (as opposed to something like Harmy's despecialized edition which can never be totally rid of the crushed blacks as they are part of the source material).

some of this stuff (such as the fett shot change) almost feels like they're just changing random stuff intentionally to make it harder for people like Harmy to make theatrical restorations...

I doubt that's really the motivation behind it, but at the same time I could see it happening.

I'd like to see lucasfilm let Criterion Collection do for Star Wars what they did for Seven Samurai (or any other film they've done such an incredible job restoring).

Really, I'd like all six films' original theatrical releases restored & preserved by someone who will really do a proper job (Robert A. Harris or someone like him) & then released on bluray with all the original theatrical audio tracks as options.  Plus the '97 SE's (also restored) & whatever George wants to call his "final" version (but really let it be final this time!).

Ah, now I do remember the thing about the Falcon matte...  Does anyone know what that picture was supposed to be?  I knew that pic in the book was a matte created for ROTJ, but never heard what pic was SUPPOSED to be there instead...

none said:

Added one of the small ones to Rinzler's "The Making of Empire Strikes Back" book which is one of the first printing and contains the screwed up photos

 I remember hearing about this, but never any specifics.  What photos specifically were screwed up? ( i have the book too, likely a first printing, but haven't had a chance ot read it yet...still gotta read Making of Star Wars first....)