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boris

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24-Apr-2006
Last activity
11-Oct-2006
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447

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Post
#247748
Topic
Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal
Time
Originally posted by: Karyudo
Actually, you are both wrong: Anamorphic DVDs have 33% more resolution
We can do this mathematically if you like:

The claim was:

But with 33% LESS RESOLUTION than all of your anamorphic DVDs

Anamorphic NTSC is 365 lines, 1/3rd of that is 122, 365-132 is 233 lines... hmm, no the PAL disc has 326 lines, thus the statement must be wrong.

But then again, since you're comparing PAL->Anamorphic PAL, here goes:

326 lines for non-anamorphic PAL. 1/3rd of that is 109 lines. 326+109 = 435 lines... so you could say that when compared to non-anamorphic PAL that anamorphic PAL has 33% MORE lines... but that wasn't the claim. The claim was that it has 33% LESS lines then anamorphic PAL. His claim can be rewritten such: "non anamorphic disc = 2/3rds resolution of anamorphic DVD's". But 2*(432/3) = 288, far less then the 326 lines that the PAL disc has.

His claim was completely wrong. Especially considering it has only 11% less lines then anamorphic NTSC. And here's the proof for that. Anamorphic NTSC disc has 365 lines... 365 * 0.89 = 324.85, the PAL disc has 326 lines, Ergo it's 11% less then the anamorphic NTSC SSE 2004 DVD. Alternatively:
326/365 = 0.893 (approx).

Now, here's an interesting note, some of my anamorphic discs don't go all the way to the side of the picture. My OUT PAL Discs do. SOOO... if you were to compare to say an anamorphic NTSC disc which has 9 horizontal black lines to the left and right of the picture, then the total number of pixels would be (720-9*2)*363... or 254826 pixels. The PAL DVD has 720*326 pixels (234720 pixels).... 234720/254826 = 0.92. So this statement would be true:

The OUT DVD's have 8% LESS RESOLUTION than some of my anamorphic DVDs

Some of my NTSC discs have even more missing picture then just 9 lines on each side.
Post
#247637
Topic
Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal
Time
Originally posted by: SilverWook
Someone on the HTF claims to own a 35mm print, but it's supposed to be in such a bad shape, they are contemplating tossing it out! http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=234933&page=95 From that thread (in a sig):See Han Solo Shoot First! Sept 12, 2006
But with 33% LESS RESOLUTION than all of your anamorphic DVDs
Some people amaze me. Anamorphic DVD's have 25% more resolution. But then again,

2.35:1 has approximately 326 lines PAL, and 432 lines for Anamorphic PAL (25% more).

But then again... Anamorphic NTSC has 365 lines (11% more then non-anamorphic PAL).

You can confirm this yourself:

here

Now I know the framing is slightly different, and that PAL is resized from NTSC resolution - but hey that's how the cookie crumbles.

Thus I conclude that this release has 11% less resolution then about half of my 2.35:1 anamorphic DVD's.

[ontopic]I doubt what comes out of a home-effort will look anywhere near as good the OUT[/ontopic]
Post
#247634
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Time
Originally posted by: Karyudo
Uhh... the master tapes are digital. So what? Not all digital master tapes are equal.
Originally posted by: Laserman
Boris, if you can't extrapolate that because the PAL THX laserdiscs have a ton more detail (and raw lines of resolution) than the NTSC laserdiscs,(and that even a *capture and re-encode* of the PAL laserdisc outperforms the NTSC gout in some scenes) then that the PAL master would have more detail than the NTSC master, then nothing else I can say will change your mind.
There was obviously a reason they didn't use the PAL tapes. The reason could simply be that they couldn't be bothered to use them... but then the difference in cost and effort would be minimal at best if this was the situation. Remember, they both have to be encoded anyway... I would be surprised if the PAL master tape looked as good as the NTSC one. It may well have had more detail - but I'll bet a dollar it had more flaws. They didn't care about PAL in 1993, and if they went to the effort in 1993 to make a PAL master tape rather then do a PAL-to-NTSC conversion like every other video release, then I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that they wouldn't do this in 2006 if it would have been better.

You can believe that the PAL master tape is much better quality if you like. Either way is speculation, we don't know for certain. Just because it has a tad more detail doesn't prove your argument, and there's certainly not enough evidence to prove otherwise. I don't believe that the PAL tape was inferior. I don't know, I don't pretend to know and I am happy to believe that it's possible the PAL tape was inferior... and it's possible it wasn't.Originally posted by: Moth3r
However, if you apply a low-pass filter to the DVD image to "soften" it and make it equivalent to the laserdisc (cut off at 5.5 MHz?) then there still seems to be more grain on the DVDs.
I really don't think you can compare that blur. The Laserdisc blur would be true "un-focus", and technically not a blur.
Post
#247632
Topic
Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Time
Originally posted by: Ingo Sucks
I actually thought this was a change made in 1997! And then when I was coming up to the spirit scene, I was thinking "They need to replace that old guy with the new Anakin...". Then the new Anakin appears and I think "Whew! What a relief."
Many SE fans actually like that change. There's no argument that Shaw was way too old to be anakin... he was older then Alec Guinness, who is supposedly 15 or so years older then anakin!
Post
#247628
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Originally posted by: Scruffy
In or around 1997, the O-neg was restored. Certain portions were removed for SE alteration, and we can assume that those film elements are lost. But every one was scanned at 2k so the SE alterations can be made. Hard drive space is cheap, so we can assume the digital versions of these portions are not lost. So, in 1997, we have 90% of the O-neg intact in the SE and the remaining 10% in the digital domain. No it's not, it was entirely re-made the way zombie84 explained. They didn't re-create the crawls, but they did replace a lot of the film with alterations ranging from digital-re-composites, to digital characters. Also, I have a very strong feeling that they did the same thing again in 2004... ie they physically inserted the 2004 alterations.

Here's the catch. Digital mastering provides better quality prints because you can remove film flaws, like scratches dust and discolouration. Star Wars will never be released onto 35MM again without being digitally mastered, so even making a 35MM theatrical release will come from the 4k resolution digital master.Originally posted by: zombie84
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Anyway, regarding what needs to be scanned for a complete OOT O-neg DI--yeah, its not that difficult. There are a number of ways a high quality OOT scan could be accomplished:
What would happen is he would use the o-neg, and whatever other sources he has to provide the best restoration... it wouldn't be just 1 source.
Post
#246660
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Time
Originally posted by: Laserman
But with Lucasfilm we are talking master tapes so players etc. don't come into the equation. Howcome something similar may not come into the equation here?Originally posted by: Laserman
As I said the fact that Moth3r's transfers look better in places than the GOUT even though via his (or any) transfer the PAL master tape has been effectively transferred to a laserdisc pressing master disc, then put to laserdisc, then put in a (relatively to the X0) crappy player, then captured on a consumer level cheap capture card, then recompressed to DVD and it *still* comes out better in places than the GOUT which hasn't been through those trials, that is proof that the PAL masters are better than the NTSC masters. Think about it for a minute or three.
You really think so? I don't think his has the edge in quality in most of the screencaps, over the OUT DVD that is...
Post
#246645
Topic
The 1977 Crawl.
Time
Originally posted by: boris
Also, and this is hard to spot, on all the CG crawls the text goes over the stars. On all the three (four) "original" crawls the stars are visible through the text. This is also evident on the OUT disc. This is a dead-giveaway that it was composted optically rather then digitally... so it's just plain crazy to think they CG'd the crawl and then optically composted it onto a shaking star background. Also, the stars are far brighter then they are on any of the three prequel crawls. And here's an animation to show what I mean, already posted in another thread I chose a "dark star" (as I like to call it) because it's dead-easy to see at real-time and at the original resolution. I haven't resized the frame so the picture will look slightly stretched.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4631/crawl2fc3.gif

Originally posted by: Vigo
I have found another indication that it is the origal crawl!

Start the film and pause it on the first frame where the STAR WARS logo appears. Now advance 11 frames. You see fixed dirt on the lens between the lower connection line of the "S" and the "T"!
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3947/swlogo1tu2.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7465/swlogo2vf6.jpg

It doesn't appear to be dirt... and it's in more then one frame, as seen above.
Post
#246641
Topic
What's Original '77 and What's Not?
Time
Originally posted by: Vigo
Honestly, I think most people were a little bit too fast here to dismiss the textcrawl as CGI generated. I was surprised when Mverta claimed he spotted the obvious CG crawl right away... when he's supposed to be a professional in the field; and I have a hard time believing the crawl is recreated (at least until some real evidence for this is shown). I also have a hard time believing they would re-scan the star-destroyer fly-over if they were going to do a CGI crawl.Originally posted by: Mielr
Someone on another site claimed that the star destroyer fly-over is taken from the SE.
Actually, that was just another thread - it was another simple assumption made by the person who said it:

The 1977 Crawl.
Post
#246640
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Time
Originally posted by: Laserman
Absolutely not, look at the NTSC laserdiscs vs the PAL laserdiscs if you want to compare.
OK, so am I to believe that *you* put an NTSC laserdisc through your Japanese model Pioneer-X0 laserdisc player because it would give you better quality then using a PAL release with a PAL player... but that the same scenario (ie-that the NTSC master-tapes are better quality then the PAL ones) isn't possible with LFL?
Post
#246639
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Time
Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
these dvd's of the oot are the most underwhelming release I have ever seen.

The quality is shit not much better than the definitive collection laserdiscs, and those have the uncompressed full pcm sound. Well, that's not really true. The quality is much better, has less ghosting, and is sharper with better colour. As for the PCM sound, as I've already pointed out - every DVD release *could* include a PCM track, just like every release could include a DTS track. But they don't use it for DVD, and it's not legal to just put on a PCM track (just like it's not legal to just put on a DTS track - the DVD format specifications require a Dolby Digital track). And besides, I'm yet to hear anyone actually do a review of the audio... and say that the PCM sounds better - my feeling is that although the DD track is compressed there will be little to no audible difference discerned by the viewer. I would like someone to do a double-blind test with a bunch of their mates... and see if they can tell which was which.

And finally, every PCM track captured from the LD and put onto DVD-R has been resampled. The resampling that was done by Lucasfilm may well be better then the home job of the bootleggers.
Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
These DVDs are pathetic. Just because they could do better, which no one disagrees with, doesn't make this release "pathetic".

Now, what WOULD have made them pathetic is over-saturation and inaccurate colours like say the colours you see on the 2004 release. If they remastered it and it came out looking like that I would not be happy.
Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
I have two VHS copies of each movie, one for enjoyment and one for preservation. I'm prepared to last on DVD back-ups of my tapes before I'll buy this release. It amounts to more-or-less the same thing anyway. The gains in quality with the Sepember Discs are insufficient for me to want to buy them. You see, that's why you've just lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. There's an obvious difference in quality between the laserdiscs and these DVD's... so to say the 1993 VHS quality is "more-or-less the same" as this DVD is just stupid. The quality comes close to the 2004-DVD quality in some scenes.Originally posted by: RichardPX3
I wish I was a mod. I would have banned his ass right away.
There's a very good reason why people like you aren't in charge. I chose not to post in the thread you're talking about because I knew it would turn into a flame-war, I fully appreciate Zion's decision in the matter.Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: Mike O
OK, I'm confused. Is Lowry a person or a company?


Both.
Lowry is a person, Lowry Digital is a company
Post
#246629
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Time
Originally posted by: Laserman
As for which one I would buy, I bought the PAL GOUT of ANH, and after taking a look at it posted it to George along with a letter stating my disappointment at how the PAL territories have been treated with this release. (Didn't mention the whole laserdisc thing, just that a PAL upscale from an NTSC master was an unaccetably cheap way to treat fans when a PAL master existed.)
How do you know that the PAL master is all it's said to be? After reviewing screenshots I don't think the PAL LD's have more picture detail in most scenes... and only have the edge in a couple of scenes... so wouldn't it be possiblethat overall the "PAL" mastertape has less detail?
Post
#246294
Topic
What's Original '77 and What's Not?
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
Wow, nice catch Boris! If you also look at the "N" there is another star that overlaps at the edge as well. Yes, the stars do overlap, it's just easier to see with this "dark" one at it's original size. I already reported this is the case in another thread, I guess you need to *show* people sometimes. Interestingly enough you're watching the footage in reverse... in rewind... I just couldn't be bothered re-ordering the frames.Well, that settles it for me. This looks like the real deal.

Now, i wonder--is the entire opening shot (ie crawl+stardestroyer) a new transfer as well?
It seems to be, the stardestroyer has a thicker black matte-line when compared to caps from the laserdisc.
Post
#246265
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Time
Should there be a disclaimer of some kind on the disc itself? Maybe one which explicitly states this set is only for genuine owners of the THX laserdiscs, and distribution is on the condition that it is used as a digital back-up for them...?

But I don't know if that is the intention of the X0 project. The X0 project doesn't seem to be for people who own the thx laserdiscs, it seems to be for those who would like to own the thx laserdiscs... without the hassles, problems, or cost involved with it.
Post
#246236
Topic
What's Original '77 and What's Not?
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
Someone needs to do a layered composite of the two crawls to see if they sync up down to the pixel.
It's not necessary... the crawl is obviously an optical composite.. here, I'll show you...

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9091/crawlhf3.gif

Notice 2 things... on the "a" is a "dark star" that goes over the text, and over the "e" a scratch appears in 1 frame. This would not be the case if it was a digital recreation.
Post
#245045
Topic
Info Wanted: Anyone Planning on making Anamorphic versions using 2006 OUT DVDs?
Time
Originally posted by: nix.nux
But for me a very important thing would be to get the DVDMenu from the 2004 DVD for the GOUT Version(like OCP did), this none Motion thing look like made with TMPENC DVD Author!
Serious? I prefer the menus on the OUT discs... each to their own I guess.

*cough* get *cough* bmp2png *cough*
Post
#245043
Topic
Limited Edition Packaging Scans
Time
Originally posted by: Cable-X1
Originally posted by: boris
http://rapidshare.de/files/33276331/2006R1.zip.html

Here they are cropped and rotated, but not recompressed. Cable-X1, feel free to update with these ones if you like.


Ah, THANK YOU Boris!!!

Apologies to everyone for not doing this myself.....it would have driven me crazy....
Not a prob. I used a program called Jpegcrop, which doesn't recompress the images. It's a freeware program.
Post
#245041
Topic
The Official Release VS. EditDroid
Time
Originally posted by: Darth Mallwalker
Apples & oranges there.
That GOUT shot doesn't come from the laserdisc mastertape like the rest of the movie does. So? It's still a valid comparison as it's part of the DVD.
Originally posted by: Cable-X1
The official release is sharper and more clear than EditDroid, but there is a TON of grain.
Did you actuaqlly watch the official release, or are you commenting from screencaps?Originally posted by: zombie84
A closer comparison is perhaps Moth3r's version, which is practically identical to the GOUT (which is more or less the same sharpness, though less vibrant, but also less grainy as well).
There's only a couple of scenes where Moth3r's seems to have the edge on detail... but with it comes it Moth3r's comes with the price of colour and noise and ghosting ... all of which are better on the official version.