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auraloffalwaffle

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Join date
23-Jun-2006
Last activity
6-May-2011
Posts
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Post
#241987
Topic
Poll: Do You Think the OUT will be Released Again in '07?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241987/action/topic#241987
Time
Mike!! Where the hell have you been?! Turn your damn PMs on!!

On topic: None of the three answers fit my thinking. The OOT will be released again. I don't know when. The September Discs may well be included in the saga boxed set but then they might not. A new transfer may be included. Or not. All I do know is that I don't want these transfers. At all. Thank you very much.

Post
#241984
Topic
Secret CIA prisons
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241984/action/topic#241984
Time
I believe the secrecy is the issue here. Obviously we all stand in different positions on what is acceptable and what is not.

The fact that the details of the flights and now the prisons have had to be forced out of the government demonstrates that they did not want anyone to know about them. Not just the locations of them, which could justifiably be kept secret from the general public, but that they exist at all. This leads to the question of why the government made that decision.

Keeping these people secretly detained without official charges or any possibility of defending themselves in a court denies them rights that we would all fight to keep for ourselves. It also prevents any objective scrutiny of the conditions in which the detainees are held and the practices that they are subjected to. If we seek to condemn countries that do these things, we cannot be seen to be doing them ourselves. I believe that this contradiction provides a basic reason why these activities have been kept secret. It casts doubt on the integrity and legality of the government's actions.
Post
#241982
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241982/action/topic#241982
Time
I disagree with the charge that it would shrink the SW universe. The characters were created to be our companions through the story. I think that, when considering how to tell the story before ANH, it makes sense to keep that element in place. It has been said many times around the forum that the Luca$h PT just doesn't feel like SW. I think that is partly due to the poor use of the droids. Sure, it provides a few headaches when trying to retro-fit a PT to SW '77, but it is by no means the only one. And I am a long way from declaring it impossible.
Post
#241957
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241957/action/topic#241957
Time
I am certainly planning to write my PT once I've got all these ideas straightened out. But hey, if you're inspired, why not write one of your own? Go for it!

Okay, so I'm settled on the idea of memory wipes for the droids. But that leaves us with the thorny issue of Obi-Wan's response to them. Does he really not recognise them? Is he being evasive? He doesn't say that he doesn't recognise them, he says that he can't remember ever owning a droid. If he knows that they won't recognise him because they had their minds wiped when they joined the crew of the Tantive IV, then he won't be worried about them giving the game away. But what reason would he have to avoid saying that he knew the droids?

It could just be that he doesn't recognise them. The type of droids which Threepio & Artoo belong to are commonplace machines. But they do have particular personalities. Wouldn't that jog his memory?

If I take the decision to keep the droids as the thread which takes us through the saga, then Obi-Wan will inevitably know them before ANH. This leaves me with having to sort out why he doesn't come out with "Artoo! Threepio! My old friends! How long has it been?"

It's entirely possible to avoid Owen and Beru meeting the droids before ANH. There's no reason why the droids have to be there at any point when Anakin or Obi-Wan are on Tatooine with Anakin's family.

Hmmm...
Post
#241676
Topic
So, this is how the DVDs are going to look...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241676/action/topic#241676
Time
Yes, it agrees what I'd been thinking too. Purely a money-making scheme to clear out their stock of '04 SSEs before releasing the new SSSEs next year. I feel no compulsion to buy this release. I resent its motivations and do not want yet another letterbox, stereo version of the OOT. I have more than enough of those on VHS.

Luca$hFilm know that the OOT will sell on DVD and they will keep releasing it as long as it will sell, just as they have with the SSEs.
Post
#241651
Topic
What Special Edition changes (if any) did people like?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241651/action/topic#241651
Time
I think the one SE change that I can honestly say is really excellent is the re-introduction of the scene with Biggs and Red Leader in ANH. It would be great to see the earlier scenes on Tatooine put back in as well. It makes the previously background-less comment by Luke ("Biggs is right, I'm never going to get out of here") pay off by connecting more sturdily with the character we previously only met once the BY was under way.

Cleaning up blue screen effects shots (e.g. on Hoth), altering the perspective of the cell block corridor, etc. I don't have a big problem with. I liked the introduction of windows in the corridors of Cloud City.

I still haven't watched the 2004 SEs, just the 1997 versions. The one thing I thought would have been done in 1997 and wasn't was putting Ian McDiarmid in ESB. I think it provides some nice continuity between ESB and ROTJ. But I fail to see why the script needed to be altered.

I regard all the other changes as surplus to requirements.
Post
#241649
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241649/action/topic#241649
Time
I think that Threepio and Artoo must remain our guides throughout the saga. It's just one more thing that Luca$h got right in '77 that he's now decided he won't maintain. The droids are ageless and their characters are unchanging - the perfect companions through a saga spanning generations of humans.

Memory wipes seem to me to be a perfectly acceptable way of maintaining the integrity of how they behave in ANH. Uncle Owen tells Luke to have it done after he reveals that they have mentioned Obi-Wan. This tells us:

(a) the procedure is standard practice.

(b) it is provided as a service, like for any other kind of machinery.

This allows us to have a little fun with the droids at their expense because, unlike your classic immortals, they are almost entirely at the mercy of their organic masters.

They could have their memories erased at the beginning of Episode I and then again when they are given to Captain Antilles. This means that the droids don't know what we know at the beginning of ANH. I don't think that this would in any way impair their role as companions for us. If we establish that the procedure is standard for droids when changing hands, then Threepio and Artoo would be quite used to it. It gives us a nice mystery as to how many owners the droids have had since being built and leaves us unsure as to just how old they really are. It might be fun to have the droids allude to their most recent owner and their experiences with him or her before their memories are erased in Episode I.

After all, what is the SW experience without Threepio and Artoo?!
Post
#241491
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241491/action/topic#241491
Time
Originally posted by: lordjedi
Of course, I think those things just happen to fit, but only after ROTS came out and 3PO's memory was erased.

D'y'know what? That bit was going through my mind when I saw Curtis had written:

The most simplistic commentators speculate that the droids' minds were wiped between the wars, but this is a drastic, excessive and unnecessary theory.


D'OH!

He's going to have to come up with a whole new theory now!
Post
#241453
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241453/action/topic#241453
Time
I appreciate the link, Scruffy. But this Curtis Saxton guy is coming at this from a totally different angle to me. He goes to herculean lengths to marry up the PT to the SEs and EU. It would be admirable if it wasn't so... sad!

Later, in the safety of Kenobi's hovel, Artoo burst out with excitement (and perhaps recognition) upon sighting Anakin's lightsabre.

Right...

In his early conversations with Luke Skywalker, he evaded discussion of Princess Leia until late after key facts were told in Kenobi's presence. When Obi-Wan began to tell Luke a tale about Anakin and the Jedi, Threepio requested to be shut down, likely to avoid discussion and facing awkward memories about his Maker's tragic fate. Nevertheless the supposedly inert droid was only pretending unconsciousness; as he eavesdropped on the conversation he swayed slightly but visibly. This evasive behaviour was prompted by Threepio's recognition of Anakin's lightsabre.

Uh-huh...

For their part, neither droid could be expected to recognise Kenobi (or Owen Lars) in the Tatooine desert after 19 years of aging.

Er...

Vader didn't meet R2-D2 on Bespin, and he might not have cared enough to address C-3PO there. However the fact that he sent C-3PO's parts to Chewbacca's cell for repair could be interpreted as an act of mercy.


But...

C-3PO ought to have remembered his earlier experiences on Tatooine when he returned in A New Hope, yet he seemed unfamiliar with the Dune Sea. Perhaps he had spent most of his early existence in the comfort of the towns and the Lars farm, avoiding the most desolate areas.


Now, hang on...

Later evidence conclusively disproves the "mind-wipe" theories, at least with regard to C-3PO. During preparations for Luke Skywalker's wedding [Union #1], C-3PO declares that "I first met the groom, Master Luke Skywalker, on Tatooine, the planet of my birth." Therefore he does recall his origins with Anakin and Shmi Skywalker. If he rarely speaks of those times, it is because of indifference, absent-mindedness or strict confidentiality.


You can't...

C-3PO is tactful and secretive, and a bit self-centred. R2-D2 is unintelligible to almost everyone except C-3PO. Both droids are common models, and the human characters they dealt with in the prequel era had been wounded or aged beyond recognition by the time Luke Skywalker's adventures began. These two facts explain all of the would-be discontinuities.


[Sigh]

Okay, Curtis. Very good. Well done.

[Walks away, shaking head]
Post
#241410
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241410/action/topic#241410
Time
Just found a good quote in the SW novel:

Luke leaned back in the seat, luxuriating in unaccustomed relaxation as Threepio skillfully directed the powerful landcraft around dunes and rocky outcrops. "You handle a landspeeder pretty well, for a machine," he noted admiringly.
"Thank you, sir," a gratified Threepio responded, his eyes never moving from the landscape ahead. "I was not lying to your uncle when I claimed verstility as my middle name. In fact, on occasion I have been called upon to perform unexpected functions in circumstances which would have appalled my designers."


I have not really addressed a nagging issue with the droids. I would love to keep them in the PT. I don't think we need to see how they meet. I prefer the idea that they are there from well before the beginning of Anakin & Obi-Wan's story and well after the end of Luke & Vader's. I find it a satisfying thought that the droids are much older than any of the other characters (except, perhaps, Yoda) and are unchanging, unlike their organic owners. The droids lead us through the story and we see many events from their perspective. Sometimes they drive the story forward, as in ANH, and sometimes they are caught along by the events around them.

Artoo & Threepio are a solid basis from which to construct the story. They allow us to observe galactic and personal events from an immortal perspective.

Any thoughts?
Post
#241147
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241147/action/topic#241147
Time
I've been toying with the idea of whether my PT should tie-in with the OOT or just SW '77. It is clear that Luca$h's story has been played with in every release and that Darth Vader was not initially intended to be the same person as Anakin. Several members, like Anchorhead, have expressed an opinion that SW took place in a broad, mysterious universe and that, with each further movie, that universe has narrowed and shrunk due to the constant attempts to make all the main characters related to each other.

I've been trying to size up how much I agree with that view and what the implications would be for writing a new PT. Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker are now separate characters. Vader is Obi-Wan's apprentice and Anakin is Obi-Wan's closest friend and a fellow Jedi Knight. Vader goes over to the dark side and joins the Dark Lords Of The Sith. He then betrays and murders Anakin. Obi-Wan fights him and causes him to fall into a lake of lava. Vader survives and is encased permanently in a life-support suit & mask.

Being an OOT fan from way back, my main concern is can I afford to drop the "I am your father" moment? It is one of those jaw-dropping moments that made ESB such a cool movie. This leads to an interesting question: can I integrate this into the above situation. Well, I can but... it would make things a lot nastier. Vader could be Luke's father if he was to, well, rape Anakin's wife, to put it bluntly. This puts a new complexion on things, particularly Vader's character and also the way Luke would respond to this knowledge.

Would I also keep that Leia is Luke's sister? I don't know. I could live without it a lot easier than the reveal of Vader as Luke's father. It now seems a bit too contrived. A way to tie up the love triangle developed over ANH and ESB and the threat that prompts Luke to attack and defeat Vader at the end. Nothing more.

Any thoughts?
Post
#241139
Topic
The Artistic Vision (TM Luca$hFilm)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/241139/action/topic#241139
Time
I was reminded of something either Whiners or JediRandy said a while back - something along the lines of us being upset because Luca$h doesn't want to make the films we want to see. That's why I started this thread. It just suddenly struck me that maybe that's right. Other people shaped the OOT (especially ESB) into something that Luca$h never wanted (although he is always changing his mind, I know!). My expectations of Luca$h's saga were based on elements that were not introduced by Luca$h.

This does not mean that I think any higher of the man or the PT. But does it make his output and behaviour since 1980 more understandable, do you think?