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auraloffalwaffle

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23-Jun-2006
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6-May-2011
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Post
#250943
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250943/action/topic#250943
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
You can piss and moan about it until the cows come home but you have to at least respect his decision and see it from his point of view. If you do, and you still disagree obviously you do, then so be it. I respect his right to make decisions about how he manages his own affairs, but I don't respect the decisions themselves. Luca$h has done his own share of "pissing and moaning" that he hasn't been able to "realise his vision". Well, boo hoo hoo. If he wants to obsess over one project for his whole career, then that's his problem. If he blocks the satisfactory release of the original cuts of the OOT then that's something that affects me. It's a selfish decision on his part and I'm not going to let him off with it.Originally posted by: Jumpman
But, I don't think Lucas is going to lose sleep if he loses some fans over his decisions.
Neither am I. So that's alright, then...
Post
#250789
Topic
Lucas Interview from 1979 - Alan Arnold's 'Once Upon a Galaxy' book
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250789/action/topic#250789
Time
Your statement is ill-founded anyway, Jumpman. Some filmmakers plan things meticulously before starting a project. For instance, I believe Krzysztof Kieslowski planned all of his Trois Couleurs films before shooting began.

Note, this is not to do with on-the-spot problem solving, which may necessitate altering things as they go. This is to do with Luca$h's creation of a six film saga one film at a time. Now, I can allow for the fact that, when he finished SW, he wasn't sure if he would be able to make any other films after it. But the PT? I don't think he had all three episodes written before he started TPM but we can be pretty certain that he knew all three would be made.

He has claimed in the past that he had his story planned in the 70s, before SW was made. On the basis of the films, he seems to have trouble remembering what happened in the plot a couple of years ago, let alone 30 years ago.
Post
#250721
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250721/action/topic#250721
Time
Originally posted by: CO
Great movies are great movies ... as a kid you watch movies for a different reason then you do when you are older, but that doesn't mean that we are watching movies for nostalgia purposes now ...


This is a very important point. I don't give any credence to the argument that OOT fans don't give the PT a fair or open-minded appraisal because we saw the OOT when young and now can't see the flaws. I also reject the connected argument that, because of this uncritical love for the OOT, the PT couldn't possibly live up to the expectations of the OOT fans.

I can judge what is good or bad about what I watched when I was a kid. Some of the bad stuff I watch, occasionally, for nostalgia (e.g. Transformers: The Movie). Some of the good kid's stuff, I watch as just that (e.g. Bagpuss). But there are things that I judge to be good now, for the age I'm at. Just as one can grow to appreciate things that one didn't "get" at a younger age, so one can also appreciate things that one loved in childhood from an adult's perspective.

The PT does not live up to the OOT now, today, for me, at the age I am now. The OOT is not perfect but it does satisfy me as much, if not more, as an adult as it did when I was a child. I see the OOT and the PT for what they are. The SEs too, come to that.

Why should the OOT occupy some unique category that no other films occupy? I still watch Labyrinth and The Princess Bride now. Is it because I can't see the flaws in them? I enjoyed Superman & Superman II when I was little. Does that mean that I won't be able to appreciate Superman Returns with my adult mind? Do I have to regress to a child's level to enjoy it?
Post
#250683
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250683/action/topic#250683
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I just think it all comes down to wether or not you are being open minded about the prequels. If you are open minded then you can roll along with all the things the prequels introduce without rolling your eyes, but if you go in with the mindset that Lucas shouldn't be adding anything to what we had in the classic trilogy, then anything new that Lucas introduces suddenly becomes "uneccesary, pointless exposition".

That's not fair at all. I would say that it is possible for someone to watch all six films with an open mind and still come to the conclusion that the exposition in the PT is much more obvious and clumsy than the exposition in the OOT. It's not just OOT fans that regard the PT as poorly made films, you know...
Post
#250679
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250679/action/topic#250679
Time
Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar
The idea of C-3PO becoming a Jedi was a bit of whimsy on my part. But personally I see little reason a droid--particularly one who is obviously sentient and able to learn--should be restricted from the force.
After all, Darth Vader/Anakin was mostly mechanical and his son acquired a mechanical hand and never once was it stated that these things had any effect on their ability to use the force.

I see the distinction as being that , despite their mechanical limbs, Vader and Luke remain essentially organic life forms. Yoda tells us in ESB that life creates the Force. I say that it follows that only life can use it. I see where you're coming from with the sentience argument, but I would still regard sentient droids as not being part of the Force, as organic life is. These are my own opinions, of course!
Post
#250677
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250677/action/topic#250677
Time
Before Luca$h's PT, my ideas about the Clone Wars were very different. I'm starting to think it would be good to revive them.

The OOT never gave me the impression that the Stormtroopers were clones. They were just soldiers in armour. My concept of the Clone Wars was that clones of people were created and used as spies and assassins and to spread lies, causing confusion and paranoia. Not thousands and thousands of troops but a smaller flood of clones which caused everyone to start distrusting the person next to them, leading to a disintegration of trust.

This idea can be used as the way the Emperor attacks the Republic from within. With distrust everywhere, the Senate blindly accept his offer of strong leadership and, once elected President (to use the position initially held by him in the prologue of ADF's novelisation of SW '77), he starts to demolish the Republic and erect the Empire one motion at a time.

The Jedi, through their sensitivity to the Force, can sense the clones and tell them apart from the person they have been cloned from. They start to defend the Republic from the clones. Palpatine counters this with a series of "outrages" perpetrated by clones of Jedi and contrives to have the Senate agree to allowing the Lords of the Sith deal with the Jedi "threat". Soon, he is openly declaring the Jedi as being the originators of the clones and that the Jedi were plotting to seize control of the Republic. The Sith begin the systematic "cleansing" of the Jedi Order from the galaxy.

Some initial ideas - any thoughts?
Post
#250670
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250670/action/topic#250670
Time
I love the way you're thinking outside the box, JamesEightBitStar! Your ideas on the character of Darth Vader and now the Emperor and his dark side minions are genuinely unique! Keep going, dude!

The only thing I will comment on is the idea of Threepio using the Force. My take on it is that only organic beings can use the Force as only living things can become sensitive to it. I would have a tough time expanding that to allow for droids to be trained to use the Force. Of course, if you have a more expansive view of the Force then fair enough. If so, could you give us an idea of how you think of the Force?
Post
#250377
Topic
My Prequel Trilogy
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250377/action/topic#250377
Time
Great ideas, JamesEightBitStar. As I mentioned in the other thread, 'What did the PT need?' might interest you. People, including myself, have been exchanging our own ideas there for the PT. I'm planning to write my own novels, as are a few others.

I think you're right to keep the bare minimum of characters from the OOT and ditch many of Luca$h's characters from his own PT. I, too, am keen to retain Artoo and Threepio. Shamefully ill used in Luca$h's PT, in my opinion.

Very unusual ideas about the character of Darth Vader! That's one of the most innovative takes on the character I've seen yet!
Post
#250373
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250373/action/topic#250373
Time
I do like those ideas. Han would also now be 20 years younger than his friends at the start of episode VII, which would cause no end of frustration and conflict.

As far as the 20 year gap goes, I'm thinking in those terms because I'm thinking I'll use the idea of the Emperor not being defeated until episode IX. However, I'm toying with the idea of Vader still being defeated in episode VI. This has been inspired by considerations of the 'universe-shrinking' many members have been complaining about. I think the cause of this is less the discovery of relationships between the characters and more the fact that the focus of the saga has been narrowed to the story of one person, Anakin Skywalker. SW '77 does not have this narrow view. It is a snapshot from the story of the rebellion against the Empire and the story is not restricted to any one of the people we meet. It is the story of all the characters.

I think this is another reason why Luca$h's PT is less satisfying, that it has been reduced to the story of Anakin Skywalker, that he is "The One" and that everyone else is a supporting character in his story.

This is why the use of the droids appeals to me so much. They are ageless and are the perfect characters to take us through 60 years of history. They provide a constancy against which the transience of the organic lives around them can be highlighted. Their memories are manipulated, which prevents them from becoming too god-like in their knowledge of the overall story. They are thrust into situations in the same way as the audience, which means that we find out things and meet characters as they do.

The time scale I've mentioned is not set in stone, by the way. It's merely a tool to work towards a structure for the saga.
Post
#250152
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250152/action/topic#250152
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
"nerfherder"

Erm... This may be the most patronising thing ever, Obi Jeewhyen, so apologies in advance, but you do know she's saying "nerve-hurter", don't you? I like this line because she's struggling to come up with a real crusher to send Solo away licking his wounds but instead ends up giving out the lamest insult ever.
Post
#250007
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250007/action/topic#250007
Time
Now then, taking up the discussion about 'force ghosts'.

I like to imagine the secret of becoming one with the Force as being one of the ultimate secrets of the Jedi order. This is why it is not known to the Sith Lords. Further, I think that the Jedi Masters would only pass the secret on to the most worthy of Jedi Knights. This is not even known to most Jedi Knights and is certainly completely unknown by the apprentices and those outside of the order.

This is why Vader has no knowledge of the power that Ben is talking about in their duel in ANH.

I completely reject the idea that this secret was only discovered by Qui-Gon Jinn after 1000 generations of Jedi had gone before him. I think that this secret has long been held by the order as its most closely guarded and powerful secret. It means that Jedi live on and communicate with the Jedi still in our world, giving them a far greater connection to the force and their history than any others in the galaxy.

The onslaught of the Sith during the times of the Clone Wars decimated the Jedi. Not just Knights but also apprentices and even Masters. Most of these Jedi died without ever knowing the great secret of becoming one with the Force. The Jedi order was scattered throughout the galaxy.

I imagine Ben's last action, after handing Luke to Owen & Beru Lars and before retreating to the Jundland wastes, was to visit Master Yoda on Dagobah. Ben is now one of the last Jedi and is made a Master, is taught the secret and given the task of watching over Luke and to start training him as a Jedi as soon as possible. This plan is scuppered by Owen's opposition and then by Ben's death at Vader's hands. After this, Ben tells Luke to go to Dagobah so that Yoda can train Luke himself.

I therefore must come to the conclusion that Anakin and Vader will not appear as spirits at any point. Ben and Yoda will and it also gives the opportunity of meeting other Jedi long gone. This would probably be explored during the final episodes, as Luke grows in strength and skill.

Any thoughts?
Post
#249993
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249993/action/topic#249993
Time
Agreed, Commander!

It seems to me that, much like the OOT, the episodes of the saga should all be snapshots of a much bigger story. The opening crawl gets us up to speed with where we are in the overall story and everything else is picked up from the characters as we go. I feel that the expository dialogue in the PT was clumsy and unnatural, something that, for example, Ben's dialogue with Luke in Ben's hut on Tatooine, does not suffer from.

Having a gap of 20 years between episodes 3 and 4 and episodes 6 and 7 and then 3 years between the others at least gives some basic structure to consider when 'mapping' the plot. This may not be exactly how it works out, but it is useful when working out ages of characters, how long things have taken, etc.