aalenfae

Relatively small models are typically filmed with longer lenses to make them look larger. The establishing shot was filmed with a really long lens so that they could make the tower passing over the camera more impressive. The same technique was done filming the opening shot of ANH. The point COULD be to make one seem bigger than the other, but it would seem that they're just doing it to achieve the kind of shot they wanted to do. 

As I said, it COULD be Executor, but there's only one clue to suggest as such - which would be the original coloring. In order to even start to communicate that it's Executor, the shot needs to be flipped. Plain and simple.

Great observation with the lighting. Another nail in the coffin, I'd say.

I'm getting the feeling that maybe Ady just said what he said just to see how crazy and wound-up we all are about ESB:R. xD 

Cuz if that's the case... we're all a bunch of loony chumps, haha.

I really think it comes mostly down to direction over color. 
If it's supposed to be Executor, the first shot kind of needs to be mirrored. The way it's edited, all the filmmaking cues point to it being a normal SD. If it's mirrored, it suddenly seems to be something different, because its motion becomes consistent with the direction it's finally revealed to be going. 

Bash Lucas all you want, but he typically holds well to basic editing structures, like general preservation of motion, (I'm not sure what the official editing term is, but it's a basic concept). For example, picture how the X-Wings going down the trench always are shown to be flying from right-to-left. And, more recently in RotS, almost all of the opening Coruscant battle has good guys flying left-right and bad guys flying right-left, with only a few exceptions. This sort of motion consistency is a basic rule of good editing, and - if that bridge tower is supposed to be Executor - a simple horizontal flip fixes everything.

Even though every single clue (other than color) points to it being a normal SD, I'm fully willing to accept it as Executor. I really can see how it could be the Executor. But ONLY if it's flipped in the first shot. Otherwise, It's like... 3 to 1 in favor of it being a normal SD.

I fully accept the "It's the Executor" explanation exept for ONE detail. That's the direction. The bridge tower, while mostly moving straight, is moving ever so right-left in the frame. Then, we see the SD moving generally right-left. Then we see the Executor moving left-right. It's sudden and jarring (if it's the Executor). If the first shot was intended to be Executor, then it ought to be flipped horizontally to preserve the flow of motion.

EDIT:
Here's a visual explanation of everything I just said:

Although it's animated in a very cartoon-like fashion, the shuttle in the ad is arguably a lot more realistic than the matte paintings we get in the films.

The video itself is probably unusable, but it's a pretty good visual standard.

Haha, I'm glad you're excited. I am, too! 

Some really cool ideas are finally coming together for me as I refocus this edit. Hopefully, we'll see some major progress this summer.

Argh! You're right! I totally thought I resized it. 
But... maybe I forgot to hit "update" or whatever. 

Fixed now.

Special effects are not about the wow factor. Especially in this case. Coloring the blaster flashes - if Ady were to do it - wouldn't be about impressing people, and it shouldn't.

I would disagree about the payoff, though. An effect like this is very simple, for relatively high visual payoff.  And I wouldn't recommend removing the flashes from the troopers in the PT, either. It's consistent with other times in the films, where Lucas obviously intended the blasts to cast light on their surroundings (though inconsistently applied it throughout the films).

The very same "unrealistic" special effect that we're bashing the prequels for was precedented in 1977. Why is the light-casting so acceptable in the OT, yet, when we see it in the PT, it's some horrible abomination?

Ady and I disagree about the visual importance of an effect like this, and that's fine - it's his edit. But there are definitely reasons why it's a good idea, and it's hardly something to bash about the PT.

adywan said:

The thing with Cg troopers is that it they are based in the computer and not in real life so reflections etc happen because someone has programmed them to be there. But in real life things are much different. The stormtrooper armour doesn't reflect the muzzle flashes, which are bright, even in dark lighting so the chances of them reflecting the laser fire is small, if any chance at all. The blasters in the OT were REAL firing props, unlike the plastic lightweight crap ones using in the PT. These things actually fired and created a real, on-set muzzle flash. Guess what....no reflection on any part of the armour

 

So i won't be adding any reflections to the troopers armour

Coming back to this issue:
 I would buy this explantation, but it's incomplete.

The reason we rarely see the reflections of muzzle flashes is because muzzle flashes are extremely short, and are rarely caught on camera. Some flashes are extremely bright, but you'd never see them on 24fps film. Even if you do, you're not guaranteed to be getting the flare at its brightest. Sometimes, the guns don't even appear to fire, but we still see residual smoke and an ejected shell, but no flash (and therefore, no reflections). For instance, in your screenshot, we are seeing mostly smoke, and little to no flash. So it's natural that we wouldn't actually see reflections on his armor. 

Forgive me, as I don't have a version of ESB on-hand, but I do have a good example from ANH. 
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/21101
A screenshot comparison will reveal that the flare not only illuminates all the surroundings, but we can see specific reflections in the helmets of both troopers. 

This is a good example, because it reveals a best-case-scenario, where we can see the flare and its effects, which are always there, but rarely picked up on camera. 
There are good reasons to mimic this as a general rule. 

-It makes sense. The blaster bolts in-universe are many times brighter than the puny on-set flashes, so to see the evidence of the light is visually expected and sensical.

-It's consistent. We see light cast from blasters in other parts of the saga. Yes, even in the OT, such as the turbolasers and some other instances, even with hand-held blasters.

-It's visually compelling. 

Here's a little mockup I made, that shows how it might look to color the illumination red (even though this might even be too much).

timdiggerm:
Yeah, I definitely cut the wheelbike shot too early, at least.
It's hard to tell the timing until I've watched it a few times. But I'll totally fix that before the final cut.

I'm not so worried about music overuse so much as music incongruity. If I use only a little bit of ANH music, it will stand out. But if I use too much ANH music... there's a similar problem. There needs to be a good balance.

Ronster:
I think I totally agree with you, but I would slightly tweak rule #1.

1. Remove as many holograms as possible.
Then color-correct the remaining ones to match the coloring of the OT.

The effect was made by exporting the footage at 15 fps, then reimporting it into a 24 fps composition, then just cutting out the parts I didn't want to be jerky. 

(Where on earth are the mace windu shots from in the space battle?!)


Cylon voices might be a little too much, but I definitely think his voice needs to sound more robot-like. He just sounds like a guy talking through a tin can or something and making a bad Russian accent.  He needs more phasing like the TPM battle droids, maybe.

Here's a retro-redux idea. 

Making Grievous (and perhaps many CGI droids) look like stop-motion puppets!
http://vimeo.com/64913920

I think from now on, I'm going to be releasing brief videos that feature certain aspects of the edit.

Here's a video that features a more extreme scene cut, as well as music changes:
http://vimeo.com/64861962

Yeah - they've got a version of the movie that's dialogue-free, and they're keeping it all to themselves! It sucks to know that the resources are out there, but we'll never get them. Unless we break into Skywalker Ranch or something, haha.


Concerning changing the key, it SEEMS doable, but it seems to sound bad with this particular cue. I would need it to be rearranged and all that jazz. Like with real (or at least simulated) instruments. 

On another note, here's a little visual test of the color corrections I've done to the battle of coruscant:
http://vimeo.com/64850327

I really love what you did with Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul! It's kind of similar to something I had in mind. I'm glad to see it works well!

The problem with the vimeo video is a Vimeo database issue. They should have it fixed soon enough.

I'm just afraid - because a lot of fan edits are unavailable because nobody is seeding them.

Maybe we could have a stream-quality upload on Vimeo as WELL as the torrent?
Or maybe somebody could get the torrent and upload it for streaming themselves. 

If you password protect them, you can probably get away with posting the entire movies on vimeo. 

Just name them something not too incriminating.  

chyron8472 said:

Aalenfae, I love these changes, especially the music. I was skeptical at first, but you certainly have won me over about the possibility of making 3 feel more like 4.

 

Regarding the diagram on the screen when R2 is locating Palpatine, I think it might be better if the diagram was flipped horizontally, because as far as I can recall, we almost always see exterior shots of the ship from the port (ie. left) side, and yet your diagram shows it from the starboard (right) side.

All I'm saying is, when I look at that diagram the way it is, I get confused at first about where that room is located because my brain is comparing it to a mental image from the left side.

 

It's all just absolutely fantastic, though, and I can't wait to see/hear more.

Glad you're hopeful! I'll make RotS match ANH if it's the last thing I do!

Yeah, I totally agree with your suggestion for the diagram!
Great suggestion. I plan on redoing the graphics anyways, and I'll remember to flip them around this time!

 

As long as you make the videos private - requiring a password - they will probably never give you trouble.

I have a few dozen Star Wars clips on my Vimeo, and they've been up for a year without problems. 

Burdokva said:

How could I not have seen this before ? Amazing videos, watched them all and was sad when they were over - I want to see the entire movie now !

A question - it seems that you've slightly slowed down CGI scenes, am I correct ? I think it looks much better now. Details can be more easily seen and appreciated, and movement has a sense of weight. Computer animator tend t accelerate everything far beyond normal, and it looks fake.

The displays are great ! Also, love your work on the fate of the Invisible Hand. Always hated that in RotS it seemed to be crewed with morons who had no clue what they were doing. Looks like a competent crew now.

As to your special effect.. no words ! Amazing !

One suggestion - have you considered adding film grain ? I know I'm a minority in this but I think film grain adds a lot to a movie when it's not excessive.

Thanks! I'm glad you like them! I can't wait until I can finally say I'm done, haha.

I may have retimed some of the CGI scenes, as I've entirely reconstructed the shot order of some of the scenes. It gives me a lot more flexibility with stuff like that.

I am considering doing some overarching visual effects once I finish the film, which might be trying to achieve a more film-like appearance. Grain, wobble, and some slight lens distortion are in order.



mrbenja:
Really, to remove music - I have to remove EVERYTHING. Mithrandir got a decent music removal process, but it has low fidelity for sound effects, and certain frequencies of dialogue.

For any music I replace, I have to replace everything. 
The shot at the docks has no music in the original cut, so that was easy.

timdiggerm: 
As for the Death Star cue, I'm not wild about it either. What I would really want, is to get a clever musician to get me that exact cue in a major key.

Though I do think the cue works well after Anakin's darker look at the end of the scene, as well as an indication that things start to get bad from this point on.  

I'm interested in seeing it, too!

I hope you figure it out soon, so I can see it. Excited! 

I've been SUPER busy these days...
But I do have SOME work to share after all this time.

Basically, I'm focusing on something that I've boiled down to being one of the most important big changes I'm doing: using lots of ANH music. 

I love the RotS soundtrack, but it's too much like I and II, and not nearly enough like IV.
Naturally, if the film looks, walks, and talks like a prequel, we'll always group it with the prequels. But I think the Star Wars films ought to be looked at as pairs.

I and II are a pair.
III and IV are a pair.
V and VI are a pair.

You can change the editing style and the visuals all you want, but RotS is not going to feel like A New Hope unless they share similar musical cues. A New Hope has very distinct cues, but most of them are ONLY heard in A New Hope - something that doesn't really happen in the other Star Wars films. All the scores have unique cues, but there is really only one in ANH that persisted. So why does RotS sound more like films that come AFTER ANH, but not like ANH itself? Well - I'd love to fix that.  

http://vimeo.com/64784748
http://vimeo.com/64784747

Well - it's been blocked.

Rule for the future: Youtube sucks. Never, ever use it.
Share private videos on Vimeo.  

Teaser Video Now Online!
http://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10151627005698465

Here's the teaser video!
Representing our first two days of shooting!