Hey so I’ve been trying to find this, but have no idea where you guys are getting it.
If someone wouldn’t mind helping out via PM it’d be appreciated. I can provide proof that I’ve bought the official releases in the past.
Only need the HD version.
I made it available on yggtorrent (french private tracker, signing on is currently possible)
Hello !
That’s fine, I’m not asking for copies of your work. But you say you have a “True HD” source but as far as anyone is aware this source does not exists. If it does exists I want to know about it. If you want to keep it to yourself thats totally understandable.
I never said that I have a “true HD source” of the entire movie. But yes, there are some “true HD” clips available here and there. You didn’t know about the 2 missing podrace scenes that are available in HD in the bonuses of the Digital Collection a week ago before Schorman told you. So believe me, there are other good surprises in HD. Some of them are already discussed on this forum, so I wouldn’t say that “as far as anyone is aware this source does not exists”.
Your last answer seems to imply that I’m lying, which is not very pleasant.
And I think that’s a fair question when you come into my thread and show how all your work is much better than my work.
I didn’t come to show how my work is better than yours, in fact I even wrote the opposite :
anyway, your version is very compelling (based on your latest screenshots), I’m pretty sure that it is better than mine on other scenes that this particular one.
So I truly apologize if you understood my messages in a way that I did not want to give them.
My first post asked you for a collaboration with just 2 examples of what I get, but you honestly didn’t seem very interested and just gave a polite answer.
Then other people showed more interest and asked for other screenshots, and I tried to answer to them.
As I said before, I do not want to walk on your flowerbeds and I won’t even release something before several weeks. I would be happy to go further in this discussion with you through private messages, but I don’t want to continue answering publicly and then make me blame because I would give the impression of praising my work to the detriment of yours.
So this is my last post in this thread.
Can you tell me what sources you have? You don’t have to give them to me.
You know, I already offered you to collaborate a few posts ago and I mean it, but I’m not sure that telling you my sources without giving them to you and then letting you do the job is the way of collaboration I expected 😃
To be fair, most of my sources are the result of one year’s job by deeply searching every possible official or unofficial video and photo source (and sometimes buying items like the VHS, VideoCD and Laserdisc), including early 35mm photos made 19 years ago and unofficial CAMS (i.a. the famous Z bootleg, but also another NY VHS CAM), contacting people on several forums, merging multiple sources to get a new one (cf. ^…^'s PaNup), learning a lot about video and audio restoration, acquiring softwares and hardwares sometimes expensive (Photoshop CC 2017, Video Enhancer 2.2, Izotope RX 6 audio editor Advanced), making my own LD captures - color-calibrated to NTSC-J colors with 7.5 IRE correction (and acquiring 3 LaserDisc turntables, a Leitch DSP-575 and a 300$ video card), financially participating to poita’s 35mm scan and even involving myself in Harmy’s 3.0 project, subscribing to a paid subscription on letsenhance.io cloud platform, eventually comparing every versions that I found to clean them on a frame by frame basis in Photoshop, regrade the colors of each scene, and then start all over because I found a new source with better quality…
So for now, if I share my sources today, I will have the impression that I give up all this journey just before finishing it, and I’m not sure that it will help you since your way and mine are quite different.
Honestly, when I tried a few posts ago (maybe clumsily, because English is not my mother tongue) to tell you about other sources than yours, about color regrading and about ^…^'s PaNup technique, you answered that your sources were good enough for your project, that you had no interest in regrading the film without a true reference, and that you “hadn’t quite got your head around the PaNup thing”. Actually, you didn’t seem to want to know more and I felt a little disappointed.
On the other hand, I already asked you details about one of your sources 10 days ago but you did not even answer me:
“no home release ever had the subs burned in.” So the VHS releases don’t count then?
Yes they would, but with the OT they didn’t always use the theatrical font. I presume the OP wants to see what was actually on release prints.
Yep. The Old HDTV has burn in that has the wrong font, style and timing, Theres also a new HDTV version with the correct timing, very similar style but not quite, and a few corretions.
Getting a close look at the 35mm is what i need for my TPM restoration (yeah, im doing one too.)
Could you please tell me more about this new HDTV version with correct timing ?
So for now, I think that the best move is that both of us release our own v1, and then that we benefit from this sporty “competition” to eventually unite our efforts in a v2 if it seems then to be feasible. I sincerely hope it will be!
Anyway, I’ll tell about the sources I have and explain everything in a new thread on this forum when my version will be done, I promise!
Although I’m not sure I would call this “true hd” Since you can scale it down to SD and back up to HD and not lose any detail.
True HD it is 😃
But I guess that in 1999, the CGI rendering of this view of Palpatine’s office was not made in true HD, so that the 35mm IP eventually has no more details than what you see here, even on a “true” HD digital transfer.
JEDIT : anyway, your version is very compelling (based on your latest screenshots), I’m pretty sure that it is better than mine on other scenes that this particular one.
And, as I said, I won’t finish mine before several weeks.
I’m definitely looking forward to your version but also ZigZig’s and poita’s version because everyone has a slightly different goal and the end result will be different. It’s really nice that there’s finally three ACTIVE theatrical TPM HD projects going on!
Thank you! I fully agree with you: after years of famine, what a joy to see a craze for the restoration of theatrical TPM all around this forum!
I’ve actually gone and redid, from scratch, all 3 upscaled/patched shots. I think they look much better than they did before.
Indeed, they look really great now!
I’d be interested in seeing a comparison between Chewie’s Naboo bridge removal compared to yours, you can see that the area where the bridge was is softer on his screenshot. Just judging from your senate scene, you can make the image slightly clearer and have harder edges so I think it would blend in perfectly then.
Here is the comparison you asked for (this is one of the scenes I have not finished yet). The area where the bridge was is maybe slightly less soft in my version, but it is still soft (I guess that the initial HD rendering was already softened) :
PALACE OF NABOO BY NIGHT (aka “there was no bridge”)
FrameCompare : http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotcomparison/FJ1CNNNU
Chewielewis
ZigZig
PALPATINE’S OFFICE
(Here, the difference between SD upscaled and true HD is more obvious)
FrameCompare : http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/KDY7NNNX
Chewielewis
ZigZig
I won’t make any other comparisons in this thread so as not to encroach further on Chewielewis’s work, and I’ll create my own thread when my own version will be ready.
Chewielewis said:
I can’t say they are as good as yours, ZigZig, but they are good enough for this project.
It is your project, it is (of course) up to you to estimate what is good enough, I do not want to interfere with my own quality requirements and I will not further parasitize your thread 😃 .
I’d be interested in seeing a comparison between Chewie’s Naboo bridge removal compared to yours, you can see that the area where the bridge was is softer on his screenshot. Just judging from your senate scene, you can make the image slightly clearer and have harder edges so I think it would blend in perfectly then.
Indeed. I am not at home today but I’ll post a screenshot within the next 24 hours.
The Foobar decoder does outputs a true 5.1 stream, whereas the old winamp decoder would only allow you to decode a single channel at a time. In addition to that, the winamp filter did not decode the LFE and left it as part of the surround channels, as it was encoded. The Foobar decoder does use lowpass/highpass filtering to create the LFE channel and Surround channels, but but does not take into account that the hardware DTS decoders are set to attenuate the surround channels by 3dB. The result is that the surround channels are 3dB too hot which can lead to digital clipping in those channels during loud passages, and of course over emphasizes the surround channels in the mix. The solution is to simply declip and attenuate the surround channels after decoding.
When using the Winamp decoder, the Surround and LFE filtering must all be done in stages using software, while it’s mostly automated with Foobar, except for the 3dB gain eduction. The drawback is that the filtering used by the decoder is a bit of a black box. There’s no way to know the quality of the filtering being done, the cutoff being used or it’s steepness, or whether it follows the DTS white paper. It would probably be preferable to use higher quality software like iZotope Ozone to do the EQ filtering, but since the Winamp decoder has shown those audio problems, the method described seems to be the best possible solution.
That is why I love this forum.
Waow, thank you for all these details.
I knew about your amazing job with LD audio archive, but not about this one!
Basically, the surround channels are decoded 3dB too loud. This can cause clipping in the audio during louder portions, but I have been able to correct this using de-clip in Izotope RX.
Isn’t that linked to the fact that in theatrical DTS, the LFE is added to each of the surround channels, and need to be filtered with a steep lowpass at 80 Hz ? Maybe the foobar2000 APT-X100 decoder doesn’t treat this particularity ? Basically, you shouldn’t have any sound below 80 Hz in the surround channels after having filtered the LFE signal.
Hi,
Congrats for your work, it seems to be a huge step forward to a full HD theatrical version of TPM.
As you know, I’m currently working on my own HD reconstruction for almost 1 year. It seems that I took a different way to get a theatrical reconstruction in HD quality (some of my sources and tools are different than yours + some “missing” scenes like the arrival on Coruscant or the Senate will be in true HD in my version, not in upscaled SD).Thanks. I wanted to get this out quickly before the 35mm was released.
Yeah looks like your Senate shot is slightly better looking that mine. Im interested to know what sources you have that I don’t have and how you will be getting true HD for the Arrival on Coruscant scene, 35mm scan?
We could definitely consider collaborating on this, I’m pretty much ready to release this as a v1.0 in the next week or so. Ive had it sitting, ready to be finished since mid last year, I hit a stumbling block with audio sync issues and just ended up syncing directly to the LD audio rip.
As for missing or duped frames, I’m pretty sure I’ve “accounted” for all of them, any future (v2.0) release would have them restored and the audio patched to match it but since all the dropped/duped frames are on side/reel changes it’s not the end of the world to me.
Thank you for your answer!
Feel free to release your v1.0 whenever you want, as I won’t finish my version before several weeks.
But IMHO, wanting to get this out quickly is maybe not a smart move, especially as we know that poita will probably not deliver his TPM 35 mm scan before a long time.
IMHO, it would be a pity if, by wanting to be the first to release, the work you propose would be partly incorrect or incomplete.
About the missing frames, there is maybe another issue than just reel changes (there is a global issue in some early digital transfers - maybe the ones you use? - so that every 4000th frame is dropped).
There are also missing frames around “de-subtitled” scenes in some HDTV versions.
Another problem concerns color corrections: there is more than just a general “too much red” correction to do: some scenes (including the entire first reel) were differently regraded than others on the DVD and the HDTV versions. So I guess that a thorough scene-by-scene regrading is necessary to recover real theatrical colors (actually, that is what I’m currently working on).
There is also a difference of framing/cropping for the couple of scenes that were redone or rescanned a posteriori: those scenes need to be recropped and skewed to fit the theatrical original format.
[JEDIT : I removed the paragraph about DTS audio, since Schorman brilliantly detailed everything below 😃 ]
About using other sources, a very good result can be achieved by using ^…^'s PaNup technique (https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/PaNup-or-how-to-upscale-PAL-NTSC-capture-and-live-quite-happy/id/15928) and merging as many NTSC and PAL sources as possible (there is a lot more theatrical sources than just LD and ORF1), then using an AI-based cloud service like letsenhance.io and finally precisely rotoscoping the result on a frame by frame basis.
I do not say that to criticize, far from it: I’m really happy that a TPM restoration work is made.
I just want to draw your attention to the fact that maybe we do not have to rush if we want the best result…
About the Arrival on Coruscant scene, I’ll be happy to make a frame comparison between my version and yours if you post one of your frames, you’ll see that my version is in true HD.
looks great!
Hi,
Congrats for your work, it seems to be a huge step forward to a full HD theatrical version of TPM.
As you know, I’m currently working on my own HD reconstruction for almost 1 year. It seems that I took a different way to get a theatrical reconstruction in HD quality (some of my sources and tools are different than yours + some “missing” scenes like the arrival on Coruscant or the Senate will be in true HD in my version, not in upscaled SD).
Examples :
http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotcomparison/KD7LNNNX
http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotcomparison/FJ9JNNNU
It seems also that I took some different decisions than yours about theatrical audio sources, color grading, missing frames or subtitles, and that I detected some issues with the TV sources that you use (HDTV and ORF1), mainly about missing frames, colors and cropped images.
I still have several weeks of work before achieving something watchable. Perhaps the simplest way is that I also finish my version, and eventually we get together to propose an “ultimate” version based on your work and mine ? What do you think ?
Anyway, I do not want to give up a work I’ve been to for a year, and in the same time, I do not want to make a “concurrent version” of yours. So when I’ll have finished my version, I’ll suggest, if you’re interested, a collaboration to achieve the best result.
In the meantime, thank you and congratulations for the quality work you share!
Both 2k and 4k versions are available on yggtorrent.is !
The VCD is usable for timing and positioning, but shit for figuring out the drop shadow.
Actually it is not, as you can see on the screenshots. Positioning is not the same (plus a few long sentences are split on 2 lines to fit on P&S VCD).
There is currently no official home release with original theatrical subtitles.
“no home release ever had the subs burned in.” So the VHS releases don’t count then?
Yes they would, but with the OT they didn’t always use the theatrical font. I presume the OP wants to see what was actually on release prints.
Yep. The Old HDTV has burn in that has the wrong font, style and timing, Theres also a new HDTV version with the correct timing, very similar style but not quite, and a few corretions.
Getting a close look at the 35mm is what i need for my TPM restoration (yeah, im doing one too.)
Could you please tell me more about this new HDTV version with correct timing ?
Anyway, Silverwook is right: VHS and VCD had inlaid subtitles, but not with theatrical fonts. Here is a comparison of theatrical subtitles with VHS and VCD :
Z Bootleg (CAM):
Theatrical restoration (work in progress… I’m also doing one too 😃 ) :
VCD :
VHS :
What’s the source for the Super 8 screen shot?
Derann
To be able to compare 4k77 with other editions of Star Wars, I took the frame 5032 (GOUT-synced) of 6 different versions: 4k77 (2160p), SilverScreen Edition 1.6 (1080p), BluRay (1080p), Despecialized Edition 2.7 (720p), GOUT DVD (720p) and 16mm (480p)
I adjusted the proportions of each version so that they fit and the comparison is visually effective.
The result is available here : http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotcomparison/FBMFNNNU
In my opinion, the accuracy of the 4k77 version is similar to Blu-Ray and 4k is not really sharper than 2k (4k does not help much given the grain on the film).
This new 4k77 version has very natural and less aggressive colors than the BR or the DeEd 2.7, but the SiverScreen Edition(TN1) is still my favorite because it is less cropped and keeps the full width of the film (there is 11% more image than on the 4k77 version).
(I also compared the different versions laserdisc, VHS, VCD and 8mm, but I can only upload 6 images on framecompare).
Percentage wise, cropping is about the same as for the LPP - it was cropped to 2.35:1 which is less than the cropping at the cinema in '77 with was 2.39.1. The top and bottom and the junk on the right would have been removed by the projectionist too. It is also worth pointing out that the LPP used for the SSE had much more picture information on all sides than the tech prints:
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/KL6WNNNX
You made an amazing and long awaited work! I didn’t want to be offensive.
To be able to compare 4k77 with other editions of Star Wars, I took the frame 5032 (GOUT-synced) of 13 versions: 4k77 (2160p), SilverScreen Edition 1.6 (1080p), BluRay (1080p), Despecialized Edition 2.7 (720p), GOUT DVD (720p), 16mm (480p), LD 1995, LD 1993, LD Mitsubishi, VCD, 8mm, HBO broadcast, VHS.
I adjusted the proportions of each version so that they fit and the comparison is visually effective.
The result is available here : http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotcomparison/FBMFNNNU and here: https://imgur.com/a/cJpgzaJ
4k77
SSE1.6
BR
DeEd 2.7
GOUT DVD
16mm Puggo Grande
LD 1995 THX
LD 1993
LD Mitsubishi
VCD
8mm
HBO broadcast 1983
VHS
In my opinion, the accuracy of the 4k77 version is similar to Blu-Ray. 4k is not really sharper than 2k (4k does not help much given the grain on the film).
This new 4k77 version has very natural and less aggressive colors than the BR or the DeEd 2.7, but the SiverScreen Edition(TN1) is still my favorite because it is less cropped and keeps the full width of the film (there is 11% more image than on the 4k77 version).
Hi Hairy_hen,
I just want to thank you for this amazing work!
Well, according to IMDB, the “to be angry is to be human” segment was present in the digital theatrical release :
The Digital Theatrical Version (and DVD/VHS/Blu-ray release, which was based on this master) features several small additions to the standard (70mm/35mm) theatrical version of the film:
In the Lars Homestead, after Anakin has confessed his slaughter of the Tuskens and slumped to the floor, Padmé states, “To be angry is to be human,” and Anakin responds, “I’m a Jedi! I know I’m better than this!”
Middel-Erde?
Middle-earth (Lord of the Rings)
How would people describe Hell if they’d never been told anything about it by someone else?
Sure. How would people describe Hogwarts/Middel-Erde/Westeros/Tatooine/whatever if they’d never been told anything about it by someone else?
In his defense nothing about the book of revelation is even supposed to be taken literal, it’s more about Rome than eternity.
And it is about people that will pray the Beast at the end of the world.
No.
Well yes, just take a look at the beginning of the verse that mfm quoted (but forgot the beginning of the sentence): " A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury…"
Anyway, you were right, Revelation doesn’t have to be understood in a literal way.
And by the way, that 70% figure needs a citation.
Who is playing a game now ?
Here is my source: http://www.atlantico.fr/pepites/63-francais-ne-identifient-aucune-religion-2771283.html
(63% of French people are nonbelievers. Ok, not 70%)
And you, where is your source about 99%?
Ok, I’m done. Feel free to understand the Bible in the way you want to.
It’s not a coincidence that 99% of people think of hell as a torturous hellhole.
Source? Are you 99% of people by yourself?
AFAIK, pope Francis said the opposite a month ago. Or is he playing a game too?And even if Hell is a place a torture, that doesn’t that God personaly tortures people.
my friend, ask anyone in the street. like, literally, go out tomorrow and ask people to describe hell.
If I do that, 70% will answer that Hell doesn’t exist.
You know, I work for Catholic Schools in my Country, so maybe a lot of people in my street will refer to pope Francis. Who said recently that there is no Hell.