Edit: Accidental post… Still getting used to the new forum software… And posting on a phone (which barely existed last time I was here).
Can I delele posts?
Edit
I’m currently re-watching all 9 seasons of The X-Files in preparation for the new mini-series coming in January.
I think the X-Files suffered back in the day because of the rigid 24 episodes per season network TV format, and the fact that if you missed an episode you didn’t have an F-ing clue what was happening. But being able to binge watch on Netflix, it really holds up (and I’m skipping the weaker episodes to save time).
I’m on season 7 now. The filler episodes are getting worse but the mythology is really heating up and there are still a handful of great one-off episodes (eg ‘X-Cops’ written by Breaking bad creator Vince Gilligan).
I just had a thought…
I don’t really go in for the whole ‘chosen one’ thing. In my mind there are no prequels.
But what if Anakin wasn’t the chosen one. What if it’s Rey, and everything we’ve seen so far was just stepping stones to the prophecy being fulfilled?
God, I can’t believe I’m talking about prequel mumbo jumbo prophecies. My point is, maybe Rey is what Yoda and all those guys have been looking for all this time.
Sorry if this should be in the Episode VIII thread but it felt more relevant to the current discussion about Rey being ‘too powerful’.
hydrospanner said:
What about when Luke pulled his saber with the force in the wampa cave? We hadn’t seen the force used like that yet and no on screen explanation is ever given to tell us how he knows how to do it.I love, love, love talking about Empire, so I’m glad you brought it up, hydrospanner.
You’re right, at the time of the Wampa cave, we haven’t seen anyone do anything like that in the OT. It’s a big moment, and the film really takes its time with that scene and developing Luke’s ability. First he reaches like anyone might reach for a weapon nearby that they can’t quite get to. He’s fucked. But then he reaches again, and the thing starts to move. What is going on? Can he actually use the force to summon his lightsaber to him? He keeps trying and trying, and the Wampa gets closer and closer, the tension of the moment builds, and then boom he does it!
But it’s just a small object. We see his Force power skills tested over and over again throughout the rest of the movie, with the stakes getting bigger and bigger each time.
When Luke is on Dagobah, Yoda has him move not just one small object … but now he’s having to move many rocks and balance them on top of each other, all while standing upside down on his head.
Then later, Yoda instructs Luke to use the same force skill to lift the giant X-wing out of the swamp. Luke fails, and tells Yoda it’s impossible. Yoda shows him otherwise.
Then later, Vader uses the same skill to fling objects at Luke during their battle at Bespin.
Finally, Luke is hanging from the antennae underneath Cloud City, and he uses the Force to telepathically communicate with Leia.
See how well the use of his force skills was paced? And how he succeeded sometimes, and failed other times, and Yoda and Vader were foils who showed how much further he still had to go?
There is nothing like that in TFA. Rey’s force powers were all backloaded toward the end of the film. She doesn’t really struggle much or earn her successes. She fails at the Jedi mind trick once, but it’s more of a gag for the audience, because she immediately succeeds on her next try two seconds later. She summons the lightsaber past Kylo without any effort in the final duel, which is fine because I think it worked best cinematically that way, but there should have been earlier scene(s) to establish it.
You’re totally right about the pacing of ESB and how much more believable it is. The only thing I can think is maybe Rey is more powerful than Luke. Like, crazy powerful. Maybe she’s the new Yoda. We don’t know yet.
I don’t agree it was “the worst” but I will +1 that it seemed slapped together at times. I’ve certainly seen far, far worse.
You know what would be super cool? Remember when Interstellar did a special thing and sold unlimited viewing tickets? Not the same, a different special thing, but it would be cool if a longer version of TFA with more detail and scenes got released in theaters in a month or so for hardcore fans. I think that hasn’t ever been done before - just added in the dvd or whatever. This would be way cooler.
It would just be cool in general if movies were released (again. in theaters) in long and short versions sometimes, where applicable. We have 3D and non-3D versions now, not too different.
Disney, if you’re listening, I’d buy an unlimited TFA pass in a heartbeat. And I’d also pay to see an extended cut in the theater.
Alderaan said:
The Jedi mind trick scene was not successful with me, because it took me out of the film to think to myself, “wait? how does she know that? she doesn’t know that…”
Although I agree she learned it a little too quickly, it’s not impossible that she had been told about / heard about the Jedi mind trick at some point (she’s aware of Jedi Lore and the ‘legend’ of Luke Skywalker, so why not the Mind trick?). The Jedi mind trick is not a secret in the SW universe. Jabba knew about it, so maybe Rey does too. She finds herself a prisoner and she figures ‘I’ll give it a go’.
Don’t tell me you haven’t tried it yourself at least a couple of times… just in case 😉
cyclista said:
But yeah, it was fine that they wanted to show a torch being passed and a bond being formed - we all wanted that because Rey was a successful character. But the expense of Leia’s and Chewie’s relationship was unforgivable.
Now this I totally agree with.
Maybe in a previous ‘longer cut’ Rey and Leia have already met at this point, but in the movie I saw, it was two strangers hugging while Chewie walks off by himself and talks to an X-Wing pilot or somebody. That moment really didn’t sit right with me 😦
The point people have made about Chewie getting over Han and hooking up with Rey in the blink of an eye I just put down to timeframe. This movie moves quickly (quicker than other SW movies) and it’s quite possible (likely, actually) that the journey to Luke doesn’t take place until weeks or even months after Han’s death.
Jesus Christ, how the hell is everyone 200% positive she hasn’t had Jedi training? I could easily see a scenario down the line where we discover that Rey learned from Luke and/or her family (if Luke isn’t her family) and underwent some kind of Force-induced amnesia for one reason or another. In fact, I’ll be surprised if that isn’t the case. The mind trick is really the only thing that needs explaining anyway, and possibly pulling the lightsaber. As for winning the fight, consider the following:
-Kylo Ren is himself only partially trained. Yes, he has that nifty trick where he stops blaster bolts, and yes, he’s pretty damned effective when he’s the only guy in the room with a lightsaber, but he’s not Vader and the movie never gives the impression that he’s anywhere near that level of control.
-When he fights Rey, Kylo’s just taken a bowcaster bolt to the torso and a couple decent saber hits from Finn. He’s also just murdered his father and is kind of a confused angry mess. This is not Kylo Ren on his A game.
-The movie set up quite organically through the stuff that happens on Jakku that Rey is adept at hand to hand combat and is extremely agile. Couple that with her newly awakened Force sensitivity, and I have no trouble believing she could hold her own against a Kylo Ren in the state I’ve just described.
-If that isn’t enough for you, the Force works in mysterious ways. We’ve seen it set up innumerable coincidences to drive events and shape outcomes. Who’s to say the Force itself didn’t give Rey a boost because it needed to happen? I know there’s no direct precedent for this, but have Luke or Maz expound on it in a well-written monologue in the next movie and I’ll totally buy it.
I know I’m not likely to change anyone’s mind, but when I see people take issue with stuff like this I can’t shake the feeling that it’s because they’re just unwilling to think about it. That if something in a Star Wars movie doesn’t immediately gel with the finite list of things we’ve seen in the other movies, it’s bad writing and poorly done. When I look at Rey’s arc in this movie, I don’t think “pfffft, totally unbelievable, not at all like how it was for Luke”. I think “oh shit, there’s some Force stuff going on here that we haven’t seen before, I wonder where this is going”.
+1
Maybe you are confusing me with someone who hated TFA. I did not. It was a fun film with a lot of parts to like. Unfortunately, it was also a very uneven film with a lot to criticize. I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who thinks this movie approached anything close to the quality of Star Wars or Empire. Most people I’ve seen would rank it somewhere around Jedi, which is probably more fair. I like Jedi more just because of the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes that bring a close to the previous two stories, but to each their own.
The flaws, the coincidences, the crappy moments (Han’s Freighter, Finn whooping at Poe’s X-Wing mid battle, etc) are all genuinely bad moments, I’m with you dude, I agree. I’d sooner cut them.
I also agree, wholeheartedly, that TFA is nowhere near as good as ANH and ESB. I won’t even put it in the same league as ROTJ because I’ve watched ROTJ a million times over the course of 30 years and for all it’s ewoks and yub nub and stupid rescue plans that don’t make sense, it has some awesome moments (eg Vader’s redemption which you pointed out) and I’ve only seen TFA twice. It doesn’t come close to the feelings I have about the sacred Original Trilogy.
But as a fourth movie, made decades after the originals, I think TFA is very good. It’s certainly reignited my interest in Star Wars (I’m back on OT.com after a 5 year break so it must have done something right) and pushed all the right buttons (for me) as I sat in the cinema.
ZkinandBonez said:
I can’t remember hearing Snoke’s “there’s been an awakening” line in the film.In the film, Kylo says to Snoke ‘There has been an awakening, have you felt it?’ and Snoke responds in the affirmative.
Wasn’t it Snoke who said it in the first teaser though?
I avoided all teasers. Might be why I enjoyed the movie more than some others. Very interesting to hear that Snoke may have spoken the line originally though.
ZkinandBonez said:
I can’t remember hearing Snoke’s “there’s been an awakening” line in the film.
In the film, Kylo says to Snoke ‘There has been an awakening, have you felt it?’ and Snoke responds in the affirmative.
Pretty predictable what’s going to happen in the next installations.
Interesting. Perhaps you could share now, rather than after the next movie comes out.
Okay I’ll have a go, luke will train rey in the force (even though shes picked it up!) luke will have to fight ren possibly kill ren and the be defeated by snoke (probably in front of luke’s daughter, rey). The final installment will see rey as fully fledged powerful jediess take down snoke.
And Lando will help because Han was his buddy.
Been lurking round here for ages, figured I should actually register.
Welcome!
The moment when the lightsaber flew to her (intentional wording) was my favourite in the entire film.
Mine too. That’s the bit that has stuck with me the most.
I saw it first in IMAX 3D. I’m usually not a fan of 3D but this movie was done really well and didn’t jar or take me out of the movie at all (maybe because there were no pointless ‘stuff flying at your face’ moments).
The only time I noticed anything weird was in the resistance base exterior shots - Leia’s face looked a bit blurry at times. But others have suggested they may have done some de-aging work on her face in post so maybe that’s what that was?
2nd time I saw it in 2D and didn’t miss the 3D. So I guess both experiences get a thumbs up from me.
Yoda Is Your Father said:
Go back and watch the rescue of Han from Jabba and tell me there’s anything even remotely strategically sound about that plan. It’s literally the worst rescue plan ever. And they had months to plan it, whereas Finn was acting on impulse.Yeah and ROTJ is considered the worst of the originals for things like that and Ewoks killing stormtroopers with rocks and arrows.
Yoda Is Your Father said:>
This is Star Wars, people. It’s not ShakespeareWell ****. Let’s just do whatever we want because this isn’t Shakespeare.
Yoda Is Your Father said:
and it’s certainly not a military documentary 😉 Just enjoy it.’Yeah it’s not like they modeled the assault on the death star after WWII fighter movies or anything.
Much anger I sense in you.
If you don’t like the ROTJ flaws I mentioned how about the fact that of all the planets in all the Galaxy, R2 and the Death Star plans ended up on Tattooine, a couple of blocks from where Luke Skywalker (who happens to be the long lost brother of the princess who gave R2 the plans) lives, and he just happens to be pretty much neighbours with Ben Kenobi (who, in his wisdom, decided NOT to change Luke’s surname - or his own for that matter - when he hid him from his evil Father… Or his own for that matter), and all because one Imperial gunner decided NOT to fire on an escape pod that launched from a rebel ship they had just captured. Sure it had no life signs on board, but I’m assuming a trained imperial gunner would be aware of the existence of droids and their ability to carry data (secret data being the reason they captured the rebel ship in the first place).
I’m just saying try to enjoy it for what it is. It’s common knowledge that the original Star Wars was based on cheesy 1940s space operas like Flash Gordon. It’s more about adventure than solid plot and military strategy. I agree with everybody on here about TFA’s flaws (and the fact that everybody is pointing out the same flaws shows that it does indeed have it’s problems) but, y’know, it was fun and I enjoyed it and it felt good in all the right places. I guess I love Star Wars for different reasons to some of you guys (and as I’ve said before, that’s cool, each to their own… but as Frink has pointed out, I’d rather be one of the guys who enjoyed it and just got a great Christmas gift from JJ and co).
Snoke … Looked bad.
Totally agree. His appearance is one part of the movie I can’t defend. People calling him a Gollum/Voldemort hybrid are spot on. And the CGI was 2005 standards.
Max_Rebo said:
C-3PO … there was something off about the costume, it seemed less shiny
This bugged me too!
Max_Rebo said:
One of my biggest problems is several populated worlds are destroyed, Leia feels it through the force, so you’ve got to assume Luke felt it, yet he does nothing, just stays on his island waiting for someone to solve his map puzzle. I would hope that might bring him to his senses and make him take action, but maybe he was too far away to feel it through the force?
Maybe Luke knew he had to let events play out and wait for the force to bring people and events to the right time and place? Although on the face of it sitting on an island while the galaxy falls apart is a dumb (and cowardly) plan, we can’t always place ‘normal’ logic on the actions of wise old Jedi.
Remember what happened last time he ran off to save the day too soon? He got his hand chopped off and his best friend was encased in carbonite.
Max_Rebo said:
The falcon leaves Jakku and is immediately picked up by Solo, so either he was in the area or he was somehow able to detect it and instantly arrive via hyperspace, he said it was easy to track, but tracking ships from a long distance isn’t really a thing that can be done in the Star Wars universe (I can’t think of other examples from the films), but maybe he had previously installed a homing beacon.
I figure Han has tracking devices constantly searching for the Falcon’s unique flight signature. But I agree he got there pretty damn quick and him just being ‘in the area’ is lame. But did you notice how everything seemed to happen quicker in this movie. People travel light years in seconds (whereas in the old films they needed a chess board to pass the time). I put it down as a filmmaking decision but it did make the galaxy feel a little too small and convenient for me.
Max_Rebo said:
Hyperdrive now seems to be instantaneous to get anywhere, or maybe they just didn’t travel very far, there were no travelling scenes, just felt wrong. But it’s hard to know how far they travelled as we are never told where Jakku is in relation to anything else.
You did notice 😃
Max_Rebo said:
Why did Captain Phasma have authority to drop the shields for the whole planet, and why did nobody notice that it had happened?
Agree. This was a big one for me. If she’s so badass and loyal to the first order, she would have taken a laser bolt to the head before agreeing to shut down those shields and effectively destroying Starkiller and saving the resistance.
Also seems like a terrible strategy for Finn. Would have been better to fake mental illness, or wait for leave to desert. Even while on a mission on some planet. Deciding to bust into the detention block to rescue someone he’s never met before and then blast his way out of a military ship? Just dumb.
Go back and watch the rescue of Han from Jabba and tell me there’s anything even remotely strategically sound about that plan. It’s literally the worst rescue plan ever. And they had months to plan it, whereas Finn was acting on impulse.
This is Star Wars, people. It’s not Shakespeare and it’s certainly not a military documentary 😉 Just enjoy it.
I guess a good question would be why he was put in charge of escorting Poe away if Ren sensed something off about him and Phasma could see he was visibly shaken.
He wasn’t put in charge of escorting Poe. He was acting off his own back to free Poe, pretending that He’d been ordered to escort him. I thought that was pretty clear.
I guess a good question would be why he was put in charge of escorting Poe away if Ren sensed something off about him and Phasma could see he was visibly shaken.
He wasn’t put in charge of escorting Poe. He was acting off his own back to free Poe, pretending that He’d been ordered to escort him. I thought that was pretty clear.
Finn’s ability with a lightsaber also might be a massive hint about something. 😉
That’s what I was thinking.
Who bothers to memorize the serial number of cannon fodder?
I assumed he ‘mind-read’ Finn’s serial number when they had that stare-off moment on Jakku.
Thanks Warbler!
I’m good man. You?
well, I wish my life were better, but, I’m ok.
Sad to hear that buddy.
Although if you’d said ‘My life is amazing, everything is great, whoop whoop!’ I would have said ‘Who are you and what have you done with Warbler?’ 😉
am I really that depressing? *sigh*
Ha, no! You just have a ‘house style’ to your posts 😉
Don’t ever change, Warb. Good to see you still on here.
Hi All.
Apologies… I’m not super tech savvy. Is there any way I can download the despecialized editions as simple .avi files (or similar) so I can just put them on a USB and watch them on my TV?
Thanks in advance.
Are you sure your TV can’t play the mkv file?
Thanks. I’ll give it a go. I’ve had trouble with MKVs in the past but fingers crossed.
Hi All.
Apologies… I’m not super tech savvy. Is there any way I can download the despecialized editions as simple .avi files (or similar) so I can just put them on a USB and watch them on my TV?
Thanks in advance.