Ha!
So which team account posts are yours? I’m just trying to keep up, I’m sure you understand.
Actually I have never used the team account.
For what it’s worth, I’ve seen Chouonsoku’s samples/proof in motion and would trust what he says. If Team Negative1 wants the best possible 1080p encode, they should at least be willing to listen to him. Not that anyone else doesn’t know what they’re talking about, but samples/proof are better than words
Don’t worry, we are listening. Like you, we want this to look as good as it possibly can, and we’re not going to let our own egos get in the way of that 😃
But in terms of x264 - quality is set by the CRF value. CRF-19 will always produce the same quality (roughly speaking). With slower values (the so-called right values) it will produce the same quality as the “fastest” preset but at a (slightly) lower bitrate. You can’t feed settings into x264 that will magically make CRF-19 look like CRF-16.
^ This is absolutely true, You can’t feed settings into x264 that will magically make CRF-19 look like CRF-16. However, you can choose to do a multi-pass VBR encode INSTEAD of using a CRF value. If we choose the exact same average bit-rate as CRF-16, the file size will of course be the same, and the quality (according to the documentation) will probably not be visibly or measurable better. But, if CRF 17 produces a 21 GB file and CRF 16 produces a 25 GB file, then a 2 Pass encode could be targeted to produce a 23 GB file which would still fit on a single layer disc, but would be slightly higher quality than CRF 17 - call it CRF 16.5. Also, there are many other x264 options that can be adjusted from the defaults which may improve picture quality at the same file size. If anyone knows what they might be, we’re open to suggestions. Jan, I’m testing your suggestion out right now.
I will test as many options as I can (and more than one encoder) on a short section of the film, including what it might look like if it was a full BD-50 (not that we are likely to go that route - unless the 25 GB vs 50 GB comparison is like night and day), and post the results somewhere.
Just for fun, I created a quick tutorial demonstrating some of the ways you can quickly fix some of the issues with the Grindhouse release:
The link just sent me to the homepage. Not the grindhouse post.
Whoops - sorry! in my excitement I forgot to click publish! Should work now.
Just for fun, I created a quick tutorial demonstrating some of the ways you can quickly fix some of the issues with the Grindhouse release:
- In my opinion, a total size of about 25GB is sufficient for a 1080p encode at a very good quality (just compare it to encodes of other movies available on various file sharing sites), if the encoding settings were to be somewhat enhanced compared to your V1.0. As you’re aiming for a final file size, 2pass encoding fits the purpose much better than CRF. Additionally, some other settings might need adjustments. Overall, the settings suggested at the official x264 website (see link below) are quite a good starting point. The one thing I would change though is --tune grain instead of --tune film for obvious reasons. Any other possible, manual change of the encoding settings is just fine-tuning in my point of view. With these settings, the encoding quality will be quite a bit better and fine details as well as grain will be be preserved much better! BTW, I helped Harmy with his encodes of the Despecialized Edition😃
Hi Jan, sorry to say you’re wrong on this one. The best h264 commercially available encoders are about 40% more efficient than x264. And I’m not talking about Mainconcept which is the encoder everyone compares x264 to, I’m talking about Sirius Pixels which is much better than x264, hence the reason that top authoring houses prefer it. So if you have a Bluray that’s already encoded using the Sirius Pixels encoder then no matter what you do, the x264 encode will be significantly lower quality at the same size (beyond just the generational loss). A single-layer movie encoded using the Sirius Pixels encoder can match the quality of a double-layer movie encoded using Mainconcept or x264. Also, the 2pass option does not produce better quality at the same size as CRF.
Additionally, movies are made more compressible before encoding as well. Such as removing film grain - especially in the effects shots.
With this release we have neither option - the -1 team don’t have access to the best encoders (and if they do they don’t want us to know), and they want to release the film as it is, and not cleaned up to a point that makes it much more compressible. So in my view it’s not the x264 settings that are an issue, rather it’s the CRF value itself. In this case, CRF = 19, which is just not quite good enough, and leads to visible compression artefacts, at least in some parts of the movie. If it were up to me, which it isn’t as I’m not a part of their team, I’d suggest a CRF value of 16. This might result in a 34-50GB file size, but I’d personally rather see that.
Yes it is much larger, but we have a v1.0 now so I say go all out for v1.5 and so I say: let the material truly shine!
Also: many thanks to the Team -1 - what a terrific effort with this release!!
V
While we don’t have access to Sirius Pixels, or whatever the most expensive solution currently is, isn’t it fair to say that that, regardless of who has licensed the x264 codec and built a shiny wrapper around it with some custom presets designed for maximum quality, the codec at the heart of the application is probably exactly the same as the free version it was built on? All we have to do is find out what those settings are and feed them into the free encoder. Perhaps I’m wrong, the codec is after all open source so the companies that license it may have made some code changes, but I still believe that we can tweak the settings of the free version and improve the quality at the same file size.
In any case, unless somebody wants to buy us a $100,000 license for the Sirius Pixels encoder, it’s a moot point. Tweaking the settings is all we can do…
In other news, I’d like to add some motion menus to the bluray. You may have noticed that there is one motion menu background in the extras folder, but personally I think that one is more suitable for a Grindhouse version - this release is after all supposed to be the “clean” version. If anyone out there would like to come up with some alternative motion menu backgrounds we’d love to see them.
That would be awesome because of the different language and other alternate audio and subtitle tracks. But how would you handle the frames missing at the reel changes?
Well I can think of several options:
Personally, I think option 3 can be made to work in such a way that most people wouldn’t even know that’s what we did, but at the same time, it feels like cheating. We vowed to use nothing but the film sources and I think we need to stick with that, so I expect we will just insert black frames.
Whichever option we choose, there will be people who don’t like it, but one of the best things about this forum is that there will be somebody ready to step up and implement the alternative options. They will feel strongly enough that the short black “flash” is not good enough for them personally, and there will be others who agree, and between them they will find their own way to smooth it over, and hopefully they will share that with others.
Perhaps this is why Lucasfilm / Disney can’t be bothered to do it themselves - we (the experts) can’t all agree on what is best - some like grain, some can’t stand it, some like the “invisible CGI” fixes like the digital recomposits of the SE but want other changes removed… There are already so many different versions of the film and none of us can agree on the correct color timing, cropping, or audio tracks… The only solution is for us all to come up with the version of the film we want to see.
Personally, I’m old school. I want it to look as close to watching a 35mm film print at the cinema in 1977 as possible because that is the film that won the Oscars. That is the film that became a phenomenon, and that is the film I want to watch. I think we’re getting closer to that goal.
And I think that between Harmy’s Despecialized Editions, our own 35mm preservations (and we have more coming), Poita’s and everyone else’s projects, and all of the hybrid projects that will inevitably spin off from all of these, we will eventually get there. We will all find our personal Star Wars Nirvana.
Am I making any sense at this point or am I just so tired I’m delirious? It’s 2 AM, I’m going to bed! I gotta get up and go to work tomorrow… “Star Wars Nirvana…” If we find that, what the hell are we gonna do with all that spare time?
Does this mean the BR version will be GOUT - sync?
No promises, but hopefully, yes.
On the plus side, I was able to locate 85 of the lost frames, the rest are all at the reel changes and are not on any of our other print sources either. Download the zip from here:
In at least 30 cases there is a tif and an EXR with the same frame number. The EXR is the raw scan, the tif is the cleaned frame. The frame numbers should match up to the GOUT, but it is late so if I made a mistake please forgive me.
If any of you succeed in the cropping and color matching, please share the “fixed” Missing frames and your AVISynth script used to re-insert them, as I’m sure other people would like to do the same.
We will do our best to make sure they all make it into the Blu-ray version.
I’m noticing that lights and reflections are “streaked,” like it was a slow exposure and their luminescence is trailing off a little. It’s especially noticeable when Artoo and Threepio are in the sandcrawler. Is this the result of overexposure in the scan or is it native to the print or negative?
EDIT: Here’s an example of what I’m talking about.
Do you mean this:
with the smearing coming of Threepio and the lights
and this with the Jawas?It might be something that happened in the compression phase perhaps?
Looks like the smearing happened during our scanning process. Here is one of the original frames (EXR format).
http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/starwars/file.axd?file=/2016/01/StarWars.Frame.00022792.zip
As you increase the gamma / brightness the smearing becomes more apparent…
I’ve been a long time reader here, especially following Team Negative1 and Harmy’s projects, but have never posted. I just wanted to add to the chorus of gratitude to Team Negative1 for their talent and dedication. To put it in the simplest terms, your work makes me happy. Thank you!
Also, I realize an .iso is coming but, for anyone planning to author the Star Wars “Silver Screen Edition” mkv for burning to BDR, I came up with the Chapter List below. Just copy and paste into tsMuxerGUI:
00:00:00.000
00:00:42.050
00:01:02.820
00:02:35.020
00:05:34.870
00:08:10.400
00:09:37.170
00:12:03.520
00:16:05.740
00:20:02.160
00:23:54.870
00:25:54.230
00:28:07.100
00:29:34.380
00:32:54.880
00:35:14.010
00:37:15.120
00:39:26.450
00:42:01.850
00:42:51.500
00:44:40.640
00:47:41.450
00:49:46.770
00:51:02.530
00:52:21.380
00:52:29.180
00:55:11.680
00:57:24.510
01:01:19.840
01:04:25.530
01:06:31.020
01:10:41.380
01:12:21.710
01:15:22.730
01:17:18.420
01:19:38.380
01:23:09.020
01:25:10.880
01:28:04.970
01:31:57.310
01:34:48.690
01:36:15.550
01:37:45.990
01:39:33.290
01:40:46.050
01:42:45.450
01:47:25.590
01:53:01.760
01:55:30.160
01:56:11.670
01:57:57.260… and with titles:
01 00:00:00.000 Release Intro
02 00:00:42.050 Opening Logos
03 00:01:02.820 Star Wars
04 00:02:35.020 Imperial Boarding Party
05 00:05:34.870 Artoo’s Mission
06 00:08:10.400 Vader Confronts the Princess
07 00:09:37.170 Lost in the Desert
08 00:12:03.520 Land of the Jawas
09 00:16:05.740 Droids for Sale
10 00:20:02.160 In the Garage
11 00:23:54.870 Lars Family Dinner
12 00:25:54.230 Binary Sunset
13 00:28:07.100 Attack of the Sand People
14 00:29:34.380 Meeting Old Ben
15 00:32:54.880 “Your Father’s Lightsaber”
16 00:35:14.010 Leia’s Message
17 00:37:15.120 The Death Star
18 00:39:26.450 Torched Homestead
19 00:42:01.850 Luke’s Decision
20 00:42:51.500 Mos Eisley Spaceport
21 00:44:40.640 The Cantina
22 00:47:41.450 Han Solo
23 00:49:46.770 Cornered By Greedo
24 00:51:02.530 Death Star Destination
25 00:52:21.380 Followed In The Alleys
26 00:52:29.180 The Millennium Falcon
27 00:55:11.680 Alderaan’s Fate
28 00:57:24.510 Lightsaber Training
29 01:01:19.840 “That’s No Moon…”
30 01:04:25.530 Secret Compartment
31 01:06:31.020 Planning the Escape
32 01:10:41.380 Wookiee Prisoner
33 01:12:21.710 Rescuing the Princess
34 01:15:22.730 Into the Garbage Chute
35 01:17:18.420 The Trash Compactor
36 01:19:38.380 The Walls Close In
37 01:23:09.020 Deactivating the Tractor Beam
38 01:25:10.880 Back to the Ship
39 01:28:04.970 Obi-Wan vs. Vader
40 01:31:57.310 Tie Fighter Attack
41 01:34:48.690 “They Let Us Go”
42 01:36:15.550 Arrival on Yavin 4
43 01:37:45.990 Rebel Briefing
44 01:39:33.290 Han’s Departure
45 01:40:46.050 “All Pilot’s To Your Stations”
46 01:42:45.450 Assault on the Death Star
47 01:47:25.590 Trench Runs
48 01:53:01.760 “Use the Force, Luke”
49 01:55:30.160 A Hero’s Welcome
50 01:56:11.670 Medal Ceremony
51 01:57:57.260 End CreditsP.S. I’ll also post this on myspleen
This is great - Thank you so much - it was on my todo List.
If someone wants to post images of the missing frames using the GOUT as a source, I’ll see if I have those frames on film anywhere. Probably don’t, but I will check.
The list below should be right. The frame-numbers are based on the GOUT after it has been demuxed with PGCDemux and run through DGIndex with forced film selected (in other words, post-IVTC). Althor, would you mind checking them?
42593-604 (inclusive)
45153-45156 (inclusive)
55746-50 (inclusive)
56085
56926
58476-79 (inclusive)
60759
64864
70506-7
78664
83448-51 (inclusive)
86658-715 (inclusive)
113650-5 (inclusive)
144051-5 (inclusive)
If these frame numbers are accurate, I can locate and upload the raw, uncleaned frames - all you’ll need to do is use Dre’s Tool to color match them, then crop & resize to match the surrounding frames and then pop them in where they belong… Actually, that sounds like quite a lot of work, but I’m happy to dig out the missing frames for you. The ones at the reel changes are not coming back, they were removed when the print was plattered too many times, but there are no missing frames between the reel changes. I can only assume we lost a few during imports and exports to different software - somewhere in the pipeline the framerate must have been changed from 23.976 to 24 and back. This may account for the smearing too, or that may be on the print also. If you can provide frame numbers I can check on that too…
The reason for the frame-rate discrepancy is that the frame-rate of the container does not match that of the video stream. The former is wrong; the latter is right.
Perhaps it would be possible to use MKV Merge / Toolnix to generate a new container with the correct frame rate?
Gout-sync script.
I count 111 frames missing vs. gout and 0 extra frames. Mostly from the end of the reels. I tried to add little annotations of the shots missing frames to make it easier to reference.
That’s interesting. We seem to have lost some frames somewhere in the process. I wrote a similar script, syncing the raw scan to the GOUT way back when the project began and the ONLY frames that were missing were at the reel changes (The trims below allow for a little Head/Tail to appear at the reel changes to maintain the sync):
Gout = MPEG2Source("…\STAR_WARS\VIDEO_TS\Gout-NTSC.d2v").ConvertToRGB32().AssumeFPS(23.976).crop(6,102,-2,-104).Lanczos4Resize(848,320).Subtitle(“Gout”, lsp=10, align=3, text_color=$00FFFFFF, size=20.0).showFrameNumber(x=15,y=30)
LPP_R1 = ImageSource("…\Reel1\StarWars.Frame.%08d.exr", 1, 28929, 23.976, true, false, “rgb”).Lanczos4Resize(848,320).showFrameNumber(x=15,y=30).trim(380,28205)
LPP_R2 = ImageSource("…\Reel2\StarWars.Frame.%08d.exr", 28930, 57198, 23.976, true, false, “rgb”).Lanczos4Resize(848,320).showFrameNumber(x=15,y=30,offset=28929).trim(291,28209)
LPP_R3 = ImageSource("…\Reel3\StarWars.Frame.%08d.exr", 57199, 88881, 23.976, true, false, “rgb”).Lanczos4Resize(848,320).showFrameNumber(x=15,y=30,offset=57198).trim(387,31317)
LPP_R4 = ImageSource("…\Reel4\StarWars.Frame.%08d.exr", 88882, 117213, 23.976, true, false, “rgb”).Lanczos4Resize(848,320).FlipHorizontal().showFrameNumber(x=15,y=30,offset=88881).trim(417,27390)
LPP_R5 = ImageSource("…\Reel5\StarWars.Frame.######_%06d.exr", 117214, 148089, 23.976, true, false, “rgb”).Lanczos4Resize(848,320).showFrameNumber(x=15,y=30,offset=117213).trim(374,30774)
LPP_R6 = ImageSource("…\Reel6\StarWars.Frame.%08d.exr", 145546, 173877, 23.976, true, false, “rgb”).Lanczos4Resize(848,320).showFrameNumber(x=15,y=30,offset=145545).trim(369,0)
LPP = (LPP_R1 + LPP_R2 + LPP_R3 + LPP_R4 + LPP_R5 + LPP_R6).Subtitle(“LPP”, lsp=10, align=3, text_color=$00FFFFFF, size=20.0)
audio = NicAC3Source("…\STAR_WARS\VIDEO_TS\VTS_03_1 - 0x80 - Audio - AC3 - 2ch - 48kHz - DRC - English - DELAY 0ms.AC3")
video = stackVertical(Gout, LPP)
audiodub(video, audio)
Is there a checksum for the file?
CRC32: 6e14a3f3
MD5: b5519a30445291665df1a1aae8107c9e
SHA-1: 9e0c629653f9ea2e69bc05d449db43f602b2ac1e
Any idea if this would be compatible with the audio tracks of the Despecialized Edition? I have doubts since I’m fairly certain DE is GOUT synced and this is not. Or am I remembering incorrectly?
Due to missing frames at the reel changes, some editing of either the audio (removing a few ms) or the video (perhaps adding some duplicate frames) would be necessary to sync it to the GOUT Audio Streams.
[towne32 said:](post/id
Edit: Also, to clarify your faq/notes: v1.5 is to be the same as far as the video goes, right? Just extra audio tracks and different formats. This thing is essentially finished?
Honestly, there may be a few minor tweaks here and there, but unless we point them out or you compare frame by frame I doubt you’ll notice them.
So the 25G mkv 1080p v1 doesn’t include the 35mm spanish audio?
No, this uses the English 2.0 Stereo Track borrowed from the GOUT. But don’t worry, the original Spanish audio will be made available in the not too distant future. As I understand it, it has been repaired (the missing sections from the crawl / Greedo Scene restored from another source) it just needs syncing.
Looks pretty good. I am again impressed with what you’ve done with the color. A little bit of weave and damage, but nothing that should bother someone interested in a 35mm preservation.
Is the grain cleaned up at variable levels depending on the shot, or is what we’re looking at all representative of the original print?
There was no grain clean up at all so this is representative of the original print. Some shots are just grainier than others. Obviously shots that include transitions or Special Effects are grainier due to the multiple passes the film took through the optical printer. Luckily though, even compressed to 25 GB, the grain moves freely so it is not as distracting as the frozen in place grain seen on GOUT upscales.
While you wait there are some videos here
And Some hastily snapped screen shots here
I’m afraid the screenshots don’t really do it justice…
Interesting that there was an actual splice at the Han shooting scene. I knew you guys replaced it with the Eastman version, but didn’t know why.
As it’s the only one missing, do you suspect that it was intentionally removed and sold/kept separately for some reason?
This was a Spanish print. The Opening Crawl and Greedo’s Subtitles were therefore in Spanish. The previous owner of the print spliced in English versions of both scenes from another print, which was on inferior stock and faded red…
“As far as I’m concerned, nothing beats shooting on 35mm film. Film is so much more beautiful than digital; it gives so many more textures and variations. I don’t know very much, but the amount of work that goes into working on digital to make it look like film after the event seems like a great waste of time. Why not just shoot on film?”
Which is why they shot Spectre on film. Read more here
Or you could try Dr Dre’s Magical Color Matching tool.
It works on red faded shots too! Here is a short tutorial: https://youtu.be/5OtaGT3A8Bs
I don’t know if Team Negative 1 has a print of the special edition theatrical already, but there is a full 7-reel print of Return of the Jedi SE (1997) on a well-known auction site, ending in less than 2 days.
I assume you mean this one - it looks nice. If anyone has the $$$, I’d be happy to get it scanned, send you the scan and then you could resell the reels on eBay - it would be like renting it! You might even get a few hundred more than you paid for it… I’d do it myself but I don’t have the cash for the initial buy 😦
