So is it worth downloading now. Or are people still needing to be convinced,
so they don’t waste their time getting it again. I hope this settles that issue.
Sigh… Can we all just agree to ignore this post?
Aha. I compared the settings to the SSE project. 4K77 and 4K83 have a copy Protection setting on, while the SSE project does not. (This wasn’t deliberate, it must be the default setting, which I forgot I needed to turn off)…
I’m not sure if this is just me but I used one disc to burn 4k83 and another to burn 4k77. The discs I used were verbatim BD-R DL inkjet printable discs, the burner is the pioneer BDR-XD05B, and I used imgburn as the software. When I put these discs in my ps3 and my ps4, they are shown to be invalid. I’m not sure if this is just a problem with those systems or if the iso may be corrupt.
You are not the first person to have this issue. Let me check something…
OR… A slightly different comparison video to the one that was requested…
On the left is the new 4K scan in it’s raw state and on the right is the version on the ISO, as cleaned up by Skydude, who had this to say about how much work went into it:
"It was cleaned up (a lot) and stabilized/dewarped and CC’ed. Had to do some gradual color corrections (using an adjustment layer with a very wide horizontal feather in Ae) too as there was some sort of red light leakage coming from one side.
Also the letters and the stars received separate color corrections (using manual masking in Ae) as the print was very faded and pretty much everything was the same color. Also chroma keying of the letters was used for separation in one of the many passes."
In this video you can also see where the Eastman stock ends and the LPP stock begins. The original crawl on the LPP was in Spanish but the previous owner of the print spliced in an English version. Sadly, the Spanish version was not shipped to us along with the print, so we don’t know what happened to it). The LPP stock is unfaded, while the Eastman section has of course turned pink.
I didn’t mean to offend anyone and if I did I’m terribly sorry, I get mad easily, and that’s Canadian for you sometimes, the reason I got mad is because deathstar1138 made a rude remark and said “do it yourself” and I got mad, I just wanted to see the difference between the new scanned crawl and the old version, I think I will keep the older version though, but I’m sorry if I offended anybody, I thank you all for making 4K77 and 4K83, and 4K80 is on it’s way, I’m thankful that you put lot’s of time and effort into this or the films would be lost forever, I thank you and I’m truly sorry for the way I acted the other day. And thank you ChainsawAsh, for the screenshots of both versions so we know what is different, and I thank you all for this huge project that you all created, thank you so much, and I’m really sorry for my actions, I got really mad, I freaked out big time, and I am really sorry.
Thank you for apologizing- it’s something few people do on forums. Usually things just degenerate further.
I’m sorry too, I probably overreacted as well.
Let’s say no more about it and get back to discussing Star Wars.
Where exactly in my response did I accuse you or Smithers or anyone else of constantly complaining?
Deathstar1138 did. He was rather rude, and received it in kind.
Then perhaps you should have quoted his post in your response, and not mine.
My post quoted JonathanArthur19, and it was directed entirely at him. The requests for comparisons by others were polite, and I read them simply as “If anyone has downloaded both versions, please post some comparisons”, which sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
Geez, we appreciate the hard work you all put in, neither of us were asking any of you personally. I’ve already got the MKV, it’s the best version of Star Wars I’ve ever seen. We were just asking for someone who has the new file to provide some screenshots of the new crawl. We were literally asking of you and deathstar nothing, but still got shitty responses. ChainsawAsh has done it, and it’s great. And as you stated, you liked the comparison anyway. I’m really not sure what the issue is. It was a simple request that just got a lot of rude responses. I was just curious what the upgrade was.
Is very frustrating.
Where exactly in my response did I accuse you or Smithers or anyone else of constantly complaining? My response wasn’t even directed at you. Deathstar1138 (a member of TN1) was accused of being lazy for not clicking the mouse a few times and providing screenshots. I simply explained that we are not lazy, and it’s not that easy at this point for us to generate the comparisons.
But go ahead, bite the hand that feeds you. It would be so much easier, safer, and less stressful to just work on these projects and keep them to ourselves, like Mr Verta…
I’ve never compared them side by side before. That’s a nice upgrade. Great work, SkyDude!
@ChainsawAsh: Thanks again for taking the time to create these comparisons.
So, let me get this straight, if the crawl is improved and lot better,
then you’ll download the 40gig file anyways, but you’ll ignore anything else.And if its not better, you’ll never find out. Ok.
Instead of constantly asking and complaining about something, be proactive
and do the work, and share it. That way others can enjoy it to. It’s not that hard.Well you could be nice and it is not hard take a screenshot of both crawls and upload them. To me your just being lazy, that is not hard, just a few clicks and your done, a few more clicks to upload them, it is not a hard thing to do man, so to me that is just lazy
Let me get this straight… We (deathstar1138 & I and a few others) spend 5 years restoring two prints of Star Wars and one of Jedi, frame by frame (that’s over 450,000 frames in all, every one of which we painted out the dirt and scratches by hand), and then we offer them to you, for free, in not just one but multiple formats - MKV, ISO, with and without DNR, HD & UHD; and you’re calling us lazy just because we don’t immediately jump on a request to create a comparison video or upload some screen shots so that you can scratch your head and decide if it’s really worth your time to click a download button again?
Sorry, but we’re a bit freaking busy right now working on other projects - like The Empire Strikes Back. Personally, I have archived all the 4K77 files to LTO Tape to free up the terrabytes of disk space they were using. So it’s not “just a few clicks and you’re done”. I just don’t have the files handy anymore. So it’s a huge “thank you” from me to ChainsawAsh for stepping up and doing that. It actually saves me a lot of time and effort.
To answer everyone’s question though: Is the new version better? Yes, but not dramatically so. Is it worth downloading another 40+ GB just for those 2 minutes of film? Only you can answer that. If it’s worth it to you, then you will. Otherwise, you won’t. It’s not like we get paid either way, so why should we care what you do?
It’s the DNR version.
I’m sure it’s dead - why upscale the GOUT DVD to HD when we now have Star Wars in 4K?
However, if you would like to complete this project yourself, page back until you find the final version of the AVISynth script. All the tools you need are free: Virtualdub, AVISynth and all of the filters, including the Infognition Super Resolution plugins:
http://www.infognition.com/super_resolution_avisynth/
In fact, it looks like all the software on their site is completely free at the moment, including the stand alone superresolution program, and the After Effects, Virtualdub and AVIsynth plugins. Just register with your email on the site and get an instant unlock code.
I’m not sure if the SWE version was included in the myspleen release (is it the 1993 LD audio?) but I think I’m just gonna settle with the optical for now, it sounds great!
The SWE is the Special Widescreen Edition laserdisc (the set - along with the Japanese Special Collection - that had the 1985 remix for ANH). It’s still the 1983 theatrical stereo (the same mix as the optical audio from the print that’s track 1 in 4K83).
Schorman says the best-sounding LD of the 1983 mix is the earlier US pan-and-scan LD, while hairy_hen is recommending the US Special Widescreen Edition LD for the same mix - neither is included in 4K83’s MKV or ISO releases, but Schorman has made 4K83 synced versions of these tracks (along with the Japanese pan-and-scan and Japanese Special Collection versions) available over on the 4K## forums.
The 1993 LD audio is a remix and not the 1983 theatrical stereo, which is why it’s also included in 4K83. ESB and ROTJ didn’t get remixes for the JSC/SWE like ANH did, but they did 1993 (and ANH got another remix).
Schorman’s recommendation for the “Best” '83 laserdisc audio is track 4 on the ISO. (It is not on the MKV, but is included in the Alternate Audio folder with the MKV).
Only one: The crawl was replaced, using a new 4K scan of the LPP (cleaned by Skydude).
Just curious, are the 16mm scans going to be released?
Yes. A drive has been sent for the original scans.
Harmy’s Grindhouse was from a different print than our LPP.
I don’t know how much, if any, color correction was applied to our LPP: I received it as a Bluray ISO. I would imagine at least some basic color correction was done, but it would have been applied on a reel by reel (or even one setting for the whole film). I’m hoping to get access to a better version of the scan soon - not for the purpose of restoration, but for use as a color reference.
I see. Your version looks like a great color reference based on those shots at least. Would be interesting to see some other random shots from the entire movie. 😃
Oh and about the audio: What would be the best, technically speaking, the optical audio or that US LD 1983 mix? When comparing them, the optical sounds more “full”, more bass in it.
Here are some more frames:
I’m not an audio guy, so I’ll let Schorman and Hairy_hen address your sound questions…
Another thing I’ve been meaning to ask about is the difference in how this 4k project of the trilogy is being scanned in to begin with versus how it was done for the previous go around (SSE, ESB Grindhouse, RotJ).
On the original TN1 35mm project page, I remember seeing a photo of a print being scanned in using a homemade scanner that was basically just a DSLR. IIRC this resulted in light leaking through in certain shots (the Death Star conference room comes to mind).
For the 4k projects, I’m assuming actual professional grade scanning equipment was used?
The equipment has been upgraded more than once since that footage was shot, but we’re still using a homemade ‘scanner’. What started out with some parts from an old VCR moving the film and a digital still camera, is now a full size standard 35mm cinema projector with a 4K Black Magic camera (and special lens) pointed directly into the projector. Film is captured in realtime - optical audio too, using the same Dolby circuit boards that they used at the cinema, attached to the projector.
It’s not as good as using a Director, or an Arriscan, or something like that, obviously - no tripple flash, no dirtmaps. But one advantage is that by using a real 1980s bulb and a real projector, the colors we capture are pretty close to what you would see at the cinema. The grain is still a little more front and center than it would be reflected off the silver screen, and we have to monitor the process to keep the shutters in sync (this can be computer controlled, but we’re not there yet), but on the whole it provides a pretty authentic experience.
Harmy’s Grindhouse was from a different print than our LPP.
I don’t know how much, if any, color correction was applied to our LPP: I received it as a Bluray ISO. I would imagine at least some basic color correction was done, but it would have been applied on a reel by reel (or even one setting for the whole film). I’m hoping to get access to a better version of the scan soon - not for the purpose of restoration, but for use as a color reference.
The raw frames probably won’t help you much because they are all pink (it was an Eastman print), however here are some frames from our scan of the LPP:
Hi DrDre,
The pictures look great. The only thing that I noticed is that Captain Antilles’ sleeve in the 5th row, 3rd image in (it shows a close-up of his sleeve and Vader’s face) on the second collage, doesn’t match his sleeves in the other shots. It’s much more saturated and brown. I’m not sure if that was intentional but it stuck out to me a little bit.Keep up the great work. 😃
If I recall correctly, that particular shot was damaged and was replaced using footage from the a 35mm '97 Special Edition reel.
I think what Williarob meant was that the 2004 HD master used for the 2011 OT bd’s was regraded from how the OT had ever looked prior to 2004.
Yes that’s what I meant. I had stated that the Blu-ray was not a good color reference because it was based on a scan of the negative which had to have a new color grade since negatives don’t have the theatrical color grade.
Then someone else disagreed, pointing out that the Blu-ray didn’t get a new grade - which I suppose is true- from a certain point of view 😃 - since it appears to have the same grade as the 2004 DVD.
However, since both Blu-ray and DVD come from the same 2004 HD transfer of the negatives, I standby my original statement that it is not a reliable color reference for how the film looked in 1980.
Did they color grade the Blu from scratch, though? I thought they used the DVD SE masters as a base, and just fixed some bits and pieces.
In 2004 they scanned in the negatives at 1080p and graded them to that over-saturated-magenta disaster that we’ve been stuck with ever since. There may have been some tweaks in 2011 for the bluray, but the fact remains that all three movies were graded from scratch in 2004.
I thought the Blu Ray didn’t alter any of the colors.
You’re joking right? The blurays were created from scans of the original negative, the original negative was not color graded for theatrical release, so the entire movie had to be graded from scratch for the bluray. In other words, ALL of the colors were altered for the bluray.
The 16mm scan will be used to guide us with some of our color choices - it’s not a perfect reference by any means, but it’s bound to carry more weight than the bluray. It can also be used to repair missing or damaged frames.
While we would love to add Poita’s Empire scans to our mixing bowl, the logistics involved in copying TB of data is quite an imposition on his time and resources. It’s no exaggeration to say that it would require days of his time to restore the scans from LTO tape to hard drives (and at least three 8 TB Hard Drives would be needed for each scan), which would then have to be shipped to us. Even if we requested Prores versions, which could cut the file size down by about two thirds, it would tie up his computer for several days or even a week or two of encoding, a computer that then can’t be used for doing work on any of his own projects. The files are too big to download, and even if we tried it would still tie up his computer for weeks and weeks.
So, if you’re reading this Poita, and you can think of an easy way for us to access any of your Empire scans, by all means let us know, but in the meantime we certainly have enough to keep us busy. Indeed, it might be wiser to wait and see what we need - perhaps there will be a handful of shots that we just can’t fix, and then we can request just those shots from you - if that’s easier than just sending everything…
E.g.:
16mm Reel 3 Preview:
With a little correction to dial back the blue (Courtesy of Memorex from forums.thestarwarstrilogy.com)
You mention the 16mm has great color. Do you suppose you will utilize one of Dre’s color matching algorithms to match the 35mm print to the 16mm color?
Also, you’ve got a donation from me 😃
That could certainly be done, yes… but do you really prefer the 16mm colors as a reference?
Unless somebody comes up with a way to automate, or batch the color matching process, this would be a nightmare.
To be fair, we’ve only seen previews of the 16mm print - I don’t know if they were color corrected at all, but if not it’s certainly possible that a single correction could make it all look fantastic - it all looks very blue in the previews, but if we dial that back it might look great. I don’t know, but I hope that’s the case. If not, the Fuji print looks very nice on it’s own.