WheresBlackhawk

Y'know... Now that I look at it on screen.  It does have several points in common with the original Ep1.

Planet invaded

Save the monarch

Meet the senate

free the planet

(space and ground battle)

hmmmmmm....i just left out the drag race.

now where can I fit that ... nahhhhhh!  ;-)

I broke the post into two to make it more bearable. So if anyone is still interested in my POV, here is my idea for Ep1.  I'm sure you will notice many of the ideas that have been discussed throughout the thread. (ask WHY? as freely as you want if you feel I missed something):

EPISODE 1: Attack of the Clones (seriously the titles work)

The crawl should contain information about a thousand generations of peace and justice and an expanding Republic of hundreds (thousands?) of worlds.  A group of Senators, led by Oragana of Alderaan, block the admitance of the Mandalorians, because they have a slave labor force of clones.  The Mandalorians have sworn that if they are denied, they will see the republic burn...

The camera settles on a beautiful planet.  A large ship suddenly fills the air hitting the atmosphere.  We change perspective to below looking up and see that there are many others hitting the atmosphere as well. Once they start to settle in the sky, we see hundreds of troops floating down from the sky (ala Boba Fett's rocket pack).  We see them rounding up people and firing on others.  We cut to the throne room.  Someone rushing in to tell Organa, "There was no warning. How can this be happening?"  Organa turns to his right-hand-man questioningly.  The man suddenly pulls out a weapon and aims in at Organa. "Naveer?" The armed man responds, "Fool, I killed him weeks ago," and fires his gun.

We cut to Obiwan's eyes suddenly opening.  This section is a bit of a slow burn.  Obiwan packs a small bag, goes to a spaceport to find transport.  He meets a captain of a spice freighter going the same way.  The captain recognizes him as a jedi (so yes i think the should have a simple but recognizable look) and offers to give him a lift.  Obiwan tells the captain that they should be cautious, something terrible has happened and how he must retrieve the heir to the throne of Alderaan.  Many worlds along the edge of the republic fell to an "unknown" enemy and they will be flying close to the area.

During the trip they are stopped by a Clone ship (like WWII subs used to do on the high seas).  The crew is collected in the hold.  When the captain resists, he is killed.  This sets off one crew member (Anakin, but you knew that) and he starts to kick ass.  The Clones have a hard time laying a hand on him, because he seems to know what they are going to do.  They almost get in a lucky shot, when Anakin is distracted, but Obiwan saves him just in time.  Before the clone ship can react, Anakin has taken control of the ship, broken lose of the Clone craft, and made a daring getaway.  When the excitement finally calms down, Anakin relinquishes control to the pilot.  Obiwan is amazed that Anakin is NOT the ship's pilot.  Anakin's response, "Flying always came naturally to me.  I decided that I should work on navigational skills.  All the fancy flying in the galaxy doesn't matter much if you can't find where you are going.  Between any two points there might be a better course."

They arrive at their destination.  Anakin takes Obiwan to visit his sister, Beru and brother-in-law, Owen.  They are all moving out to one of the rim planets far away from the tensions with the Mandalorians.  Beru and Owen will work the farm and Anakin is responsible for distribution.  Obiwan tells his tale and Anakin decides he wants to help find this heir.  Of course, the Clones attack (that ship they met must have been an advanced scout) and take the planet.  Owen betrays the whereabouts of the heir for safe passage off world for he and his family.  They are all captured (bad guys NEVER keep a promise).  They evenually make good their escape.  Anakin kills some of his captors during the escape.  Obiwan has a difficult time reading the clones.  Off world, Anakin is angry and refuses to talk with his family.  Beru apologizes to Obiwan for Owen's actions and tells him where they are headed if Anakin ever forgives them.  They go their separate ways.

Obiwan, Anakin, and Bail Oragana head for Coruscant, the Capital of the republic.  En route, Obiwan talks to Anakin about NO KILLING (it wounds the force and yes that probably means no leather in the outfit and probably vegetarians as well) and to let go of his anger.  "In life," he brings back Anakin's statement, "There is a better course." He tells Anakin that he can sense how strongly the force flows through him.  Anakin could sense the intentions of the clones even when Obiwan had difficulty.  Obiwan wants to take Anakin to be trained by Yoda after this is over.  Anakin, being impatient, talks Obiwan into starting his training now.

When they arrive at Coruscant (how can we NOT show a senate of hundreds (thousands?) of worlds working together when our senate of 50 states has such a difficult time doing it), the senate is in an uproar, because of the blatant attacks into Republic space.  A War Council has convened and an army is being raised.  (Why would a republic of this size NOT be able to raise an army and NEED clones, PT?) We meet other jedis, who are protecting other world leaders.  Maybe Anakin can meet a nice girl here that will be a little important if we get to make an Episode 2.  The Jedi help in the planning, but will not go into battle.  They are not soldiers, it is not their way.  In the Council we learn that the Supreme Commander of the Mandalorian forces has taken up residence on Alderaan as a final insult to the man who refused their admitance into the republic. Bail insists on leading the attack to take back his world. Anakin convinces Obiwan that they MUST go back with Bail.  How can the Jedi say that they stand for justice if they abandon Bail now?  Obiwan goes against the other Jedi and goes with Anakin and Bail.  Anakin's training continues while en route.

The final act is the battle for Alderaan.  It should be understood that the republic is taking back all the planets that were taken at the same time.  Anakin leads the attack against the ships in orbit around Alderaan, where he will show that he can learn control.  Obiwan and Bail lead the forces that retake the palace. Obiwan will show that since he has a hard time reading the clones, he can be a bit reckless and unpredictable.  Of course our heroes win the day.  Big cheer...roll the credits. 

Prepare yourselves for Episode 2 (and yeah this one could be called the phantom menace - it's where mysterious jedi who kill enter the story) ;-)

I'm sorry to say that I feel my enthusiam for this project is starting to wane.  For every great idea that comes up, there is at least one other that makes me shake my head at how this could be even worse than the OPT (original prequel trilogy). The story becomes overblown and overcomplicated and suddenly there is no way for it to work in three 2 hour movies.  I'm trying not to be negative to anyone here, believe me I am hardest on my own ideas.  I fight myself with "the 3 year old" method.  Everytime i come up with a concept, I ask myself "WHY?"  If I can explain it, I add the explanation and move on.  If not, I try to work it out or I chuck the idea.  Give it a try. See how it works for you.

Octorox asked why people are so bent on keeping the secrets of the OT.  I think there are two reasons: logic and nostalgia.  By logic I mean that the episodes ARE NUMBERED 1 though 6.  You should be able to watch them in that order.  Other movies have gone back to fill in the past, but they were supposed to be seen after the originals (look at the recent Underworld movie).  There is just a logic to the idea of watching movies in the order they sit on a shelf.  By nostalgia, I mean that many of us remember how we felt when we saw the OT.  We want new viewers to have a similar viewing experience.  I think that if Lucas had just named them and never numbered them, or just numered OT1-3 and PT4-6 (with a knowing look back) many of us wouldn't be as anal about it.

Now the big headshake of the day: Vader and the Sith Pirates.  I just don't see how this can be a good idea.  Maybe its because the last two POTC movies left such a bad taste.  Pirates have always been basically anti-establishment.  They make their living free from all control outside of society and steal what they need from it.  I just don't see how the leader of pirates would become the right-hand-man of an emperor, a man in complete control.  I guess they don't have to be very good pirates since we never see them in the OT anyway.  AND don't we have enough  to worry about with the Clone WarS that we have time for SPACE POTC.  The worst part tho is making Vader now TWO students of Obiwan who turn to evil.  Obiwan - WORST TEACHER EVER!!!!

Erikstormtrooper - I like your story arc for Ep1.  Assassination of Leader of Alderaan.  Returning the heir.  Freeing the planet.  I kind of got a laugh at "a spice freighter (spice is a substance of questionable legality) exits hyperspace over a random planet."  Now picture Luke in ANH "My father didn't go off an idealist crusade and fight in the clone wars.  He was a navigator on freighter transporting illegal contraband throughout the system."  Ben-"That's what your uncle told you." Can't say I'm a fan of 2 and 3 because of all the pirate stuff.

ChainsawAsh, you have a good ear for dialogue.  The conversation in your script flows very naturally.  Much better than I could do.  I've always been better at plotting than dialogue.

I like several ideas in Ep1, but I kinda lose ya in Ep2.  Obiwan is THE WORST TEACHER EVER! You mean that two of his students become VADER?

I agree about overcomplicating it.  Remember we only have three 2-hour movies to tell the story we want (need) to tell.  Early on I was criticized for my outline being "boring."  I always start my ideas with only the necessary facts and then i flesh them out and expand.  If we start too big, we will run out of time and the product will be worse than what we are trying to fix.  This whole Vader thing is kind of interesting, but how does it get explained to the audience. It will take up alot of screen time.  We already have alot of characters we NEED to service in the story.  This idea would create at least two more, because we would have to see the title "VADER" change hands at least once to explain the concept. 

I agree about overcomplicating it.  Remember we only have three 2-hour movies to tell the story we want (need) to tell.  Early on I was criticized for my outline being "boring."  I always start my ideas with only the necessary facts and then i flesh them out and expand.  If we start too big, we will run out of time and the product will be worse than what we are trying to fix. 

Erikstormtrooper said:

So I don't agree with the concept of Obi Wan being given assigments. The Force should lead him to his missions.

 I was going with this idea for awhile, but I hit an OT snag.  If the force can lead you to where you are needed, then why did Leia have to come to get Ben in ANH.  Is it because Ben was ONCE a jedi knight, but not so much anymore?  And how can he be "too old for this sort of thing"?  The force is supposed be stronger than just the physical.  I like the "being sent" or maybe "encouraged and informed where they are needed" idea because it makes Yoda something we can talk about and have him the MOST finely attuned to the force.

Bingowings,

I do see where you are coming from, and most of the ideas can work.  The hardest thing about the new PT is showing Anakin lose the path but not seeing him become Vader.  I think it is important to preserve the plot twists.  Some of the ideas that are being tossed around at least raise doubt as to who Vader really is. 

Breathe, ChainsawAsh, It's all good.  It may just take some time to get everyone on the same page.  Patience is a virtue.  I'm with ya, man.  Like you and Erik said, if we pay too much attention to the prequels or the EU or the old scripts we have already blown the CONCEPT we were going for.  A few pages back I posted THE FACTS as SHOWN in the OT.  Those are really the ONLY things we need to stick to.  As someone previously said, this PT should be exciting whether you watch it 4-6, 1-3 or 1-6.  If we only stick to the facts, it will make the whole project more exciting for the viewer, because they won't know what to expect.

Erik... I like some of your ideas, but i don't think we have the time to spend an entire movie on just Obiwan's development.  AND I think we really need to try to make Yoda a PRESENCE without being PRESENT.  He should be built up as being, frankly, the most powerful Jedi, but not seen on screen to make his appearance in ESB that much more of a surprise.  Luke was surprised...after all the build up, so should we.

Still curious about people's ideas for the wars.

I thought the whole idea of this was that nothing is entrenched in this new PT.  We just need to make sure we don't contradict the OT.

Besides Han calls chewie a wookie...not an ewok ;-)

I never read the Zahn books so what's his take on clones?

This may seem like a silly question, but where in the OT (on screen, I mean) does it say that Ben is the cause of Vader needing life support?  If we really want to preserve Vader is Luke's daddy, we almost have to wait until he is Vader before Obiwan and Anakin fight. Like the idea of the 2 student battle leading to Anakin needing life support.

Bingowings:  What is the Dark Side of the Force is like a cancer?  It consumes living things and the living power of the force.  The stronger you get, the weaker your "physical" body gets.  It can help explain Vaders armor and the emperor prunish exterior.  Remember that the force was never about physical strength anyway.  So as the emperor comes to power he APPEARS to be weakening which could lead to people following him out of respect for what looks like a dying leader, but in reality his powers are getting stronger

Octorox, I agree, lets skip the term Sith.  It was never in OT (on screen) anyway. As I mentioned before, if a jedi isn't "right" instead of Sith can't we just call them a "dark Jedi"?

Wow...I go to work for a few hours and a whole page moves on without me.

I agree with Octorox for the familial relationships.  Let's not make any more people related than we need.  It makes the whole galaxy too small.  I was blown away by the idea of Owen as brother-in-law because it was SO simple but it never occured to me and opens up many story telling possibilities.  I think if Owen and Obiwan were brother's it would have come up at SOME point in the OT.  Obiwan would have at LEAST been distraught at Owen's death.  Let's just keep it simple (with a twist).

ChainsawAsh about diving into Ep1, be careful that we don't jump the gun either.  We need to define MANY things about the structure and charcter archs before we start ANY script.  Otherwise we'll end up in the same hole I think Lucas got himself into.  I think he started kind of where we are...All kinds of ideas!  Then he built his SAGA one movie at a time, BUT he made the mistake of saying it was a trilogy so he had to wrap up his ideas in ROTJ, which I thought was really rushed.  Think of how cool it would have been if Luke had killed Vader in Ep6 and then "the other" that Yoda spoke of could have helped redeem him in Ep7.  Wouldn't it have heen cool if that "other" were not some SURPRISE sister but the one person who never believed in the force anyway...Han.  I always felt that they never knew what to do with him in ROTJ anyway.  He wasn't really a scoudrel so they tried to play up him being jealous about Luke and Liea's new found closeness.  So years later, Lucas decides to create the prequels, and they suddenly turn the SAGA from the adventures of Luke Skywalker into the fall and redemption of Vader.  I wonder if he originally intended the fall to be Luke but lost his chance because he ran out of time in the OT.  So lets not rush anything.  We've only been at this for about a week.  The Ep1 can still be stand alone, but we need to know where he are headed, lest we write ourselves into a corner and run out of time as well.

How about we step away from specific characters for a bit and look the Wars themselves.  What are the Clone Wars? Who is fighting who? Why? Should the Jedi support clones?  If the force is energy from all living things, how does artifically created life affect it? Are clones a "hole" in the nature of the force?  Why are we talking about TWO wars?  Is the Republic the good side in CWI but maybe the bad side in CWII because of the Emperor taking control (but before it is declared an Empire)?

Let the ideas flow!

Too many ideas bouncing around in my head now...and they all seem to have dead ends.

Making use of some American history here.  Let's say that Anakin is Beru's brother and therefore Owen is the brother-in-law.  Just like would sometimes occur in the old west,  Owen has been setting up a life on some outter-rim planet and has been traveling back and forth preparing to move the rest of his family out there (including Anakin).  Meanwhile Anakin has been doing the"navigator on a spice freighter" thing to learn about transportation and distribution for the soon to be family farm.  This family plan get blown to pieces when Anakin decides to go off to the noble cause of war (as many young men felt about WWI).  Since his family is falling apart, what if Owen tries to betray Obiwan to the enemy if he and his family can get out.  In the end Beru would ask Obiwan for forgiveness (Owen was only trying to protect his family) and since we are playing up the Jedi as monks, he would surely do so.  Anakin would be so angry he would not talk to Owen or Beru so maybe only Obiwan knows where the Lars farm actually is.  yes? no? too Lando?

OK...big jump ahead here... what about Anakin's wife.

I was thinking about the Emperor trying to kill her when she is pregnant and maybe framing the Jedi for it.  Could this be the reason for his turn against the Jedi?  Would his anguish overwhelm him.  What if he never knew that the Jedi were actually able to save her?  That's why the children were hidden.

Lastly...for tonite... Anakin's demise.

It was mentioned earlier about Obiwan mentoring a second Jedi.  I kinda like this idea but I haven't got it worked out yet.  There was also the statement about the rumors of Vader.  I like this too, but what if we just call it "a Dark Jedi" instead...maybe simply one who kills, if we want to establish that Jedi don't kill because it would harm the force.  Then we can have a big confrontation between the students that ends with anakin needing the Vader armor.  The fun part is showing basically both fall to their deaths (lava, boiling oil, at this point whatever) and we glimpse the hand of one surivor.  This (i know its still vague) idea would help hide Vader's identity.  When we finally get the Vader vs Kenobi battle, the scripting can help cememnt the twist.  Obiwan would sense who Vader is and Vader's response helps to seal the deal: Obi asks," YOU are Lord Vader?" Vader should attack him ferociously. Obi starts,"...Anakin..." Vader finally speaks, cutting him off, "is no more."  The audience whould be convinced the other student survived.

Just doing some brainstorming.  I don't know if any of it will be any help.

I think people are taking the HanSolo-like statement too literally.  Anakin can't be a refined character, because he needs to be reckless and have some anger management issues.  He certainly should not be a rogue or scoundrel either.  My comparison stems from Anakin being the kind of guy who would chase down an entire squad of troops by himself to save his friends or ride out to almost certain doom on a frozen wasteland to save his friend.  I don't see him as a thief or pirate, but someone who jump into the fray to save someone from being hurt.  Not for glory or payment, but because it is the right thing to do.

oh and CRAP i was really starting to dig the idea of getting away from Tatooine except for one silly Obiwan line from ANH...Owen thought Anakin should have stayed HERE and not gotten involved.  As I said...CRAP.  Erik I really liked your relocating idea...can you make this line not a lie?

Erikstormtrooper your post made me think of something.  What about if Aunt Beru was a Skywalker and Owen was Anakins brother-in-law?  The OT never says they were brothers, just that Owen is Luke's uncle.

I also love the idea of getting off Tatooine.  We spend way to much time on a planet that is described as the fartherst planet from the bright center of the universe (4 out of 6 movies). Anakin and Obiwan could meet up with the Lars' at any point in the trilogy(maybe even to lay low).  As Erik said Owen could move to Tatooine to avoid the conflict (i LOVE that irony).  It gives some believabilty to the idea of Obiwan taking Luke there.  He will be raised by family but removed from the civilized part of the galaxy.  The PT seemed silly to HIDE Luke on his father's home planet.

Just a quick little thought:

Do you think Tarkin should play a major role?

He was given command of the Empire's greatest weapon.

He could also order Vader about.

That must put him pretty close to the emperor.

Imagine this whole thing starting with him as a good guy too.

OR maybe on the opposing side of the conflict and the Emperor's window into controling both sides.  The bad Guy in Episode 2, but surrenders and becomes and ally in Episode 3 when the tide turns against the Jedi.

hmmmmmm....

Anakins age does add some challenges to a story.

If he's too young his accomplishments come off a cheesy (see most of TPM and the rugrat pilot).  In ANH Obiwan makes it sound like becoming a Jedi was Anakins choice.  If he is too young is that choice really his?  Will a parent really hand their child over to a complete stranger (even in a galaxy far far away)?

I really liked the idea someone stated about setting up a "bait and switch" kind of idea by making this new PT seem like its about Obiwan first.  Heck, until ROTJ and PT I never thought the OT Star Wars was really about Vader....I thought it was about LUKE.

Well, it is just an outline.  Like I said, it needs a story; an "idealistic crusade."  The outline is just a few concepts and plot points I think need to be hit in an EPISODE ONE.

Well... here ya go:

Episode One:

Sorry to say this film still needs its major conceit.  ANH was save the princess.  ESB was Luke becomes a Jedi.  ROTJ was save Han and defeat the Empire.

The opening crawl should set the stage for this galaxy.  It’s called STAR WARS, so we might as well be in Clone War I (thanks ChainsawAsh). The crawl should explain the war but it should sound like WWI propaganda.  Remember that even though this is war, it should be part of the civilized age of the Old Republic of which Obiwan told Luke.  The movie then opens on a large scale battle.  The sequence should end with Bail Organa needing help. He tries a transmitter which is destroyed.  In desperation he calls out (prays desperately). The screen cuts to Obiwan opening his eyes.  He felt the disturbance (a mission from Yoda) and begins traveling.

Obiwan meets Anakin and Owen working on a spice farm on Tatooine.  Owen works the land while Anakin is involved in transportation (navigator on a spice freighter, hey why not).  Through some circumstance (I said it was a basic outline), Obiwan “sees” the force flowing through Anakin (cheating at cards maybe?).  He requests the brothers join him on his quest on which he can "feel his master" sending him.  Obviously, Anakin does and Owen does not (vocally).  During their passage into the war regions, Obiwan will witness and be saved by Anakin’s flying skills.  They should become friends and trust each other with their lives.  Obiwan shouldn’t be condescending and Anakin shouldn’t be a crybaby.

Obiwan should be a very by the book, in control Jedi.  Anakin is reckless and when in a pinch his anger makes it worse.  Anakin should be the Han Solo of this trilogy.  Obiwan tries to teach him to control it, “I was like you once, but there is a better way.”  Obiwan wants to take Anakin to Yoda to be trained when this is over.  Anakin is impatient and pleads with Obiwan to teach him now.  With his ego stroked, Obiwan decides to begin his training.  The movie should culminate in the two friends learning from each other:  Anakin learns to focus and Obiwan learns to be little reckless.

Whatever the major conceit of the film is, I feel it should lead to the end of Clone War I.  Maybe they are given medal by a nice little senator.  It should be a joyous ending like ANH.

Octorox, I agree that the Jedi should be more spread out, kind of like medieval knights out on quests.  I think they should still be in contact with each other through the force, like Luke with Leia and Vader in ESB.  Thats how I think you can keep Yoda as a presence without actually showing him.  You can figure if he is such a powerful Jedi he can probably be almost one with the universe and feel all of the disturbances and guide the other Jedi to where they are needed.  I think the PT Yoda was pretty lame.  He was always blind to what the bad guys were up to and had difficulty lifting heavy stuff when necessary (AOTC again). 

Hey ChainsawAsh  nice idea.  What if movie one is the END of Clone War I, kind of like ROTJ, but better?  Then movie two could be a few years later and the onset of Clone War II (instigated by the Emperor of course).  Finally the third movie would be the fall of the Jedi and the Rise of the Empire.  Maybe it should actually end as a joyous victory for some.  The emperor speaking of defeating the traitorous Jedi and how he will move the Repulic into a new age.  Intercut this with some listening and knowing its not true and trooper making moves against civilians, showcasing the dark days to come.

I have a VERY basic outline perculating in the old noggin.  I might post something if some more holes get filled in.

oops

I'll try to keep this shorter than my first post.

I think there are a lot of good ideas being passed around here and I like the free exchange of ideas.  It really helps get the creative juices flowing.  Before anyone goes off on a scripting tangent, maybe we should try to get some concepts clarified.  That way we have some common ground from wiwhich we can start.

My two biggest questions are:

1.) Who are the Jedi?

I always felt that the depiction of the Jedi in the PT had nothing in common with how they were spoken of in OT.  Jedi should never be bad-a$$es.  They are supposed to be calm and at peace and only use the force for knowledge and defense.  Remember that Luke was an exciting Jedi, but he was always on the edge of falling to the darkside.  We need to see Jedi in their prime.  We should never see Obiwan swinging his lightsaber like Conan and killing a creature like in AOTC (the force is created by ALL living things...that implies sanctity of ALL life).  I think one of the greatest challenges for the writers is to create and action/adventure story about characters that are NOT about action/adventure.  Should they be more mysterious?  Should there be a council?  Considering how they are thought of in OT.  Should they be discredited as well as terminated by the end of film three (similar to the Templar Knights)?

2.) What is the Clone War?

If this project is starting from scratch, than this is where we need some starting point ideas.  I like the idea of the first movie being pretty much stand alone like Star Wars was.  Should this movie be the impetus of the Clone Wars (like the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, the sinking of the Lusitania, or Pearl Harbor)?  I figure it should still be engineered by the future Emperor, but should blame be laid on the Jedi?

I know everyone has their own ideas, but if these questions are solidified BEFORE anyone starts scripting, I think it will help the group effort.