WheresBlackhawk

Good Luck!

I look forward to seeing your ideas.

Greetings folks.

I've been following this thread for awhile and I cant wait to see how things come together.

Last night, I was thinking about the TOS prologue you are working on.  With all of the Shatnerverse audio books out there, couldn't you piece together a "captain's log" to go with the video footage?  I have "Ashes of Eden" in audiobook and the DC comic adaptation.  I went through the comic (easier than listening to the entire audio) to find useful lines.  I kept track of the scenes they originally came from so I could find the scenes in the audio rather quickly.  Some audio would have to be edited, but I didn't think that would be too difficult. This is what I came up with:

TMP Overture begins on the Paramount Logo. (overture is heavily edited to have only the begining and the end. Just the light music)

Logo Fades, the circle of stars replaced by the Earth as main theme begins.

Kirk: "Home."

"(My) Enterprise will be gone soon." Show crew beaming away.*

"As all things must go" Show crew members lined up in hall.*

"Even Starship captains." Show Kirk packing.

"Empty like this, (she) seems so much smaller." Show various empty TOS sets, especially the ones that are upgraded in the movie like engineering, sickbay, etc.

"Filled with too many memories"  Lights fading on empty corridor.

"I don't want to stay."  Kirk alone on the bridge.

"To have the Enterprise back again. I fear I might do anything." Overture ends...scene fades to Black....BUM BUM Credits begin.

So I was getting pretty psyched.   I pulled out the audio book and started hunting down the lines.   GUESS WHAT?

Only TWO lines are in the audiobook (marked with *), and both of those have crowd soundeffects in the backgrounds.  So THAT was a waste of time.

I still think the theory is sound.  With all those Shatnerverse audios out there, it should be possible to come up with SOMETHING.  I hope this failed attempt helps a little. Best of luck.

Crazy idea for the morning:

One of the things that always annoyed me about the OT was Leia being Luke's sister.  In itself it is not a problem, but when you have the Obi/Yoda talk in VI ("He is our only hope." " No, there is another.") and then see Leia not DO ANYTHING with the force, it just becomes a lame revelation of convenience to push Luke's buttons. (wow, that sentence got away from me there.)

So what if we take this opportunity to do something useful with NotPadme that was not offered to Leia.

What if NotPadme is "force sensitive," but not stong enough to be called for training?  Her being "force sensitive" is what (even unknowingly) draws Anakin to her.  We get to III and she is pregnant and the LIFE inside her gives her the force bump to save Obiwan at some point.  After the slaughter of the other Jedi, this would make Obiwan fear for NotPadme and her unborn child (as he stated in VI). 

I've always thought that the most difficult thing about a NPT is the birth of the children.  Creating a situation where one is born and hidden away, while the other is temporarily ignored, is really a difficult concept for me still.  Any help would be appreciated there.

It's nice to see this thread back in the land of the living.

I always hoped that these ideas would be thrilling and unpredictale no matter which way you watch the movies.  If I - VI, we need to keep the secrets.  If IV-VI then I - III, then we need to play with peoples expectations.  Make it look like the are getting what they figured THEN twist it.

For example: I've always been a fan of NotPadme NOT being a queen, just because everyone expects it.  But it works out really cool if NotPadme eventually ends up with Bail, that would still make Leia his step-daughter AND a princess, but not in line for the throne.  Which kind of explains why she is always princess even after the rest of her family and all of Alderaan are destroyed.

My other question for all of you stems back from pretty much the early pages of this thread:  Who says that the NPT has to be all about Anakin? Way back... it was proposed that the focus be on Obiwan and Alderaan...those things that are taken from us in IV.  This allows us to be more vague with Anakin's fall (heck, I wanted to "kill off" Anakin in Ep II). And hopefully gives us a great story arch for Obiwan about the loss of his friend, the betrayal of a student, and why he would lie to Luke about his father.

The Dark Jedi for me were my use of the Sith concept.  I always wanted them to cross the lines that my version of the Jedi would not.  They would be masked as others have shown here in the past.  Again it gives us wiggle room in EP II for who the bad guys really are.  In fact, in Ep III, I want the audience to actually support these Sith guys right up until they destroy the Jedi along with Vader (oops these guys may have gone too far). Then, since the Emperor is paranoid about others with power, after the Jedi are gone, he has Vader destroy the rest of the Sith.  Thus the DARK LORD OF THE SITH title.  The Emperor keeps Vader around since he controls his life and death because of the machinery in his body.

Hey Chainsaw,

I see you are working on some editing.

I guess that means you've moved on from the New Ep1 script.

Sigh....

Chainsaw, I sent you the PM.

Hey ChainsawAsh, it's been a while.

It just adds in a few things that i've talked about here and a few ideas from others.

But if it helps...it's all yours.

Greetings all.  It's been a while since I posted anything here.  My enthusiasm kinda waned a while back.  Action hero Jedi, Evil Jedi, and Pirates pretty much soured this project for me.  I was working my way through my ideas and trying to incorporate some cool ideas that were offered by others, but then the conversation swung in directions that I couldnt make work with where my story was headed.  So I took a step back and tried to come up with some info that may help anyone's ideas.

I was thinking about a ship.  Someone mentioned earlier that we need our Millenium Falcon, and I agree.  I was thinking of something like a space age tractor trailer...now dont scoff yet.  What I mean is Anakin's Spice Freighter.  What if it was a nice sized ship, but its connected to much larger freight tanks?  This way it has a large slow first impression, but the main drive of the ship can be used for the daring escapes we may need in the story.

I've also been thinking about artoo and 3p0.  I would still like to see 3p0 start with more confidence (remember Lucas originally thought of him as a used car salesman) but see him him beat down enough in the NPT to become the worrywart we know in the OT.  I was also thinking about how 3p0 called artoo his "counterpart."  This implies they really are a set that needs to be together.  We need to see that happen.  maybe 3p0 is the only one that can translate his particular buzzes and whistles.

Just a couple of ideas.

Hey Boost, some really nice names there. I really like Lhasa for NotPadme. I think it would sound really good in quiet moments between her and Bail or her and Anakin.  I like the idea of her being part of Bail's guard and NOT royalty.  I think we have enough royalty in the saga.  BUT she would still need an official sounding name - "Ranger (last name)" when we meet her and when we are talking business.

For Bail's character arc (most of this is taken from my original outline):

If we start with Bail off Alderaan pretty much living a misspent youth (like prince Hal in Henry IV).  Lhasa would still be with him to protect him as the heir.  After Alderann is invaded and Bail's father is killed.  I was thinking the Mandalorians could go after him to use him a pawn (useless heir is easily manipulated), thus the fight and escape involving Bail and Lhasa, Obiwan and Anakin, and Owen and Beru.  Bail's first steps to becoming a king could be purely to impress Lhasa, who seems intrigued by this Anakin dude.  I really wanted to see Bail grow over the three movie from reluctant king, to a man who would fight for his people, to a man who would surrender himself to pretect his people.

Hey ChainsawAsh, nice to see ya around.  Glad to hear you're still writing.

I was curious how you felt about the obiwan clone plot?

Bingowings - That was always my intention of NotPadme toward BAIL.  The idea of the Anakin/NotPadme relationship being an affair really grew on me. It also enabled her to be Bail's wife after Anakin's "death" and (through some slight of hand) show her with Bail and a baby girl (Leia, but implying it's Bail's child).

"Trespass" - The one on the snow planet.

On the topic of designs, someone mentioned this way back and I agree.  I think we should look through some of the old Star Wars designs and sketches (ships, armor, etc).  That way they FEEL like Star Wars, but we continue to separate ourselves from the original PT.

The one Clone Wars episode I enjoyed was "Trespass." I mentioned it earlier.  I thought it showed TRUE jedi in character for the first time.

I dont want to argue about this with you but i have to state that your logic in this is absolutely black and white and very one sided.

Deathcrow - No argument here.  Its just a discussion.  Don't sweat it.  Especially when you are 100% correct.  That's EXACTLY what I'm going for BLACK and WHITE... RIGHT and WRONG.  This is just a starting point of the story:  The Glorious Old Republic where the Jedi were defenders of the peace, advisors, or ambassadors.  I am going for EXTREMELY idealistic here (a "more civilized age").  Then the Clone Wars start.  Ep1 shows the Jedi as idealistic and heroic all the way up to the final act.  The Jedi help plan the attacks to take back the planets taken by the Mandalorian Clones.  When Obiwan tells Anakin that the Jedi will not go into battle,  no one is shocked (it is widely known that the Jedi are not soldiers) except Anakin.  How can the Jedi say that they stand for justice if they abandon Bail now?  Anakin persuades Obiwan to go against his Jedi beliefs and goes with him and Bail.

When he says something like "anger is bad" another Jedi might argue "Be careful with anger, but it can be a good tool to do the right thing when its necessary".

In the world are all kinds of religions and most of them forbid murder, but most of them also legitimize it in many cases or even have heroes who kill their enemies.

This is where my idea of the Sith comes from.  At the end of EP2, the Sith that fights Obiwan even tells him that Obiwan's and Anakin's actions at the end of EP1 inspired several Jedi to take action ... LEADING to the Sith.  This makes them a natural extension of the Jedi.  The Jedi themselves are unwilling to change in a changing world (their ideology forbids it) but the Sith become a natural evolution in these darkening times.  Put simply: I want the audience to start feeling distanced from the Jedi and identify with the Sith.  With fear and death all around, who would you want on your side?

I haven't posted my EP3 synopsis yet, so maybe that's why some of my ideas don't seem to work for you.  You don't know what I am ultimately trying to say in the NPT.  I really want characters to have to make difficult decisions.  Decide to stick to their beliefs or do what they feel they must even if it goes against everything they've ever known.

I guess in the end...

What I really want to show is that Luke was the Jedi who could find the compromise (or balance if you will) and be the Jedi YOU spoke of.  My Jedi are like fundamentalists, unswerving, and during the golden age of the republic it worked very well.  As the times change some are forced to break those fundamentals and as often happens the pendulum swings 180 (there lies the dark side). And in the end...there is Luke.

I could go on about this forever, but as i said, i dont want to argue about this. So i will drop this matter after this posts. Discussions about spiritualism/morals/religion tend to get too emotional and i dont want to hurt anyones feelings here...

 Again, don't sweat it.  I like discussion.  Sometimes, I just have a hard time explaining my ideas.  I would rather talk than type.  That's why I'm glad someone like Chainsaw would write the script for this thing.  Does any of this help or do you think the idea is just too out there?

Deathcrow- Please take no offense to any of the following.  I am just trying to explain my thought process in regards to your post:

The Jedi shouldnt be portrayed as some new-age hippies! Yes, of course, they are spiritual and all of that, but they do kill, if its necessary, etc... They are "Jedi Knights", we should remember this and maybe even find some more analogies to medieval knights. That way Obi-Wan could easily become the Knight of the Organas and thus he becomes a General.

BUT the force has always been a "new-age" kind of thing where strength comes from being calm, at peace, and stretching out with your feelings .  I've tried to explain me views on the Jedi before, I guess I'll try one more time.  When I was growing up, there was all the talk about nine chapters to Star Wars and the first three being about the Clone Wars.  Even back then, I thought, "Man, those will be dull! Good Jedi are boring because they can't do anything cool."  If you listen to both Obiwan and Yoda in the OT you see that the force should only be used for knowledge and defense and that aggression leads to the dark side and that the force comes from ALL living things.  These statements make Jedi action heroes kind of inappropriate.  As I've said before, Luke was a cool Jedi to watch because he was so close to falling to the darkside (doing things that went AGAINST his teachings). IF your power comes from ALL LIVING THINGS then wouldn't killing deplete or harm your own power source?

I think we are also looking at knights from different directions too.  I'm going for an Authurian concept.  The old republic was like Camelot where Right Makes Might, where it's a golden age and defending the republic would not be about war.  Now I'm using the Clone Wars to lead us to the Empire, where Might Makes Right!  Simply put, Jedi philosophy doesn't work well against this and leads to their downfall, just like the fall of Camelot.  The Jedi are unable to adapt to the world around them so they fail.  LUKE is the one who FINALLY adapts with the balance of the dark and light sides of the force, and he is victorious.

I dont think Obi-Wan should ever leave the Jedi Knight. I don't even think we should approach the Jedi Order as some sort of organization that you can leave or get into. Its more about the formal training and calling of the force.

There is a reason for this.  It has to do with character development.  It's when people doubt their faith.  Both Anakin and Obiwan leave the Jedi because they need to adapt to this new world.  In the end, Anakin falls to the darkside and when Obiwan fails, he retreats back to his original role as so many others do when they fail.

I really love most of the ideas posted by Blackhawk and Chainsaw, so many of my thoughts build up upon them:

Blackhawk was talking about an invasion of Alderaan. Now, what do we do with that? I think the planet could be taken "hostage". The republic should be built upon trade, so the invaders would blockade the planet, threaten to destroy industry or as a last measure kill off population or the royal family.

The republic senate could deicde to give military aide to Alderaan, because they won't let themselves be blackmailed. Since this could lead to the death of millions Obi-Wan tries to prevent a massacre through diplomacy and travels to Alderaan. Thats when the prince of Alderaan, Bail Organa, flees from his responsibilities and Obi Wan now has to track him down, because the royal house has to stand together as one to make a treaty.

My biggest problem with this approach is that it sounds a bit too similar to the beginning of TPM. Especially the first part with the occupation.

Way back after I first posted my Ep1 synopsis, I joked that if you break it down to just concepts it did run similar to the original Ep1.  BUT the story is very different. Actually, I was trying to structure it (in terms of story flow) like ANH.  You made it more like Ep1 when you brought up trade disputes, blockades, Obiwan the diplomat, and Bail fleeing.  In my synopsis, the invasion was about wounded pride and revenge.  They offer the republic clones as a limitless workforce, but when they are denied, they turn that workforce into a limitless ARMY. If the Mandalorians would not be accepted into the republic, they would see it fall.  These stories can't get bogged down in politics.  Motivations can be very simple.  We build on and flesh them out as the story goes.

Someone made an important observation in this thread, that we should try to do things as different as possible, in comparison to how GL did them in the PT. So the conflict around Alderaan should be very different. No Droids. No big invasion.

It is different.  The invasion of Alderaan is NOT the whole first act like in TPM.  Instead, it is the thrill that kicks off the events and sets our characters in motion, like the beginning of ANH.  There are no battle droids, because we have Mandalorian clones. And it is NOT just the invasion of Alderaan, but several worlds.  We just focus on Alderaan because that is what our characters are fighting for.

Maybe go more with the clone concept and have infiltration? Replacing people in key positions, slowly hiding a military force on the planet, etc. But: We dont need to see this, this sould happen before NPT, and could be told to the viewer through dialogue (for example Obi-Wan explaining the situation to Anakin, who has no idea what he has gotten himself into...). Important for us is not the conflict itself, but the characters, obi-wan, bail, anakin and how the eventual resolution of this first Clone War begins to corrupt the Republic and shows signs of its possible demise.

If you read my Ep2 synopsis, the infiltration idea kicks into high gear there.  When the idea of invasion proved unsuccessful, a more subtle plan is needed...FEAR.  My goal is to have the audience ROOT for the SITH, support Palpatine in doing what is necessary, AND THEN feel guilty when they realize what is happening.  Ep3 SHOULD almost feel like a good ending (to the clone wars) until you realize that the Might Makes Right mentality brings an end to peace and justice AND the republic.  I hope you will understand when I post my synopsis of Ep3.

We all agree that Episode I should stand on its own, right? So what we really need is an adventure that MUST be fleshed out. Whats the story we want to tell? In ANH its "Rise of a hero and victory in an important battle against the Evil Empire". We already have the "Rise of a hero" part and i can imagine most of it just fine, but we need real conflict, loss, drama, not just some obscure or far away Clone War (in ANH lukes next of kin are killed, so the empire is a real threat). ANH has all those little scenes that establish scenario and characters (like the cantina, garbage smasher, etc)... there's so much happening, its exciting to watch.

Yes, I agree that Ep1 should stand alone, and I feel that my synopsis was fairly fleshed out (not down to scene and dialogue, but it was only a SYNOPSIS).  Even more so now, with the addition of the "crazy jedi clone" arc.  I don't want this war to be far away or obscure.  Its right there in our face.  Bail's father is asassinated 3 minutes in.  We see the rise of two heroes that find they can learn from each other and that this friendship makes them them stronger than they were.  (This is why I am trying so hard to keep them separated in Ep2).

I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from here.  This whole project, to me, is just a challenge to see if it CAN be done in a way that is faithful to the OT, keeps its secrets, and lets us look at IV-VI in a new light.

Chainsaw, what do you think of my "crazy jedi clone" idea?  I think cutting back to the Alderaan occupation will give us a chance to focus a bit on the Mandalorians and understand their motivations.  We will also get a bad guy we can hate (He's basically the Tarkin of this movie), but know there is still someone above him calling the shots back on Mandalor. (and we get a lightsaber battle in Ep1)

Boost,  I see what you mean about getting too bogged down in the TECHY solution to the cloaks and the hit and run attacks by the Madalorians.  The simple solution of course is if the jedi can sense clones, thena jedi could track a cloaked clone ship.  Problem solved. I think I got stuck here, because I needed an arc for Obiwan.  In my Ep2 outline, he was just where I needed him to be, but he (and Bail as well) was missing a story.  For my Ep2, I was trying to use the AOTC and ESB idea of splitting the main characters up.  In the end I want Obiwan to feel that HE failed Anakin.  That he brought Anakin into this world, but he was not there when Anakin needed him.  For example, when Anakin is conflicted on Cruscant (and he actually IS one of the Sith killers), when he asks Obiwan to protect NotPadme while he leaves to fight (Bail saves her), and Obiwan thinking that his failed Student killed Anakin. I still see the NPT as not so much about Anakin, as they are about Obiwan and his world changing around him.  ALSO... I was saving the dark jedi/sith for Ep2, becasue I was diggin' the idea that Anakin's speech to Obiwan at the end of Ep1 that the jedi should not sit by but do what was neccessary and right infact INSPIRES the creation of the Sith.

I think I have a cool Star Wars-y idea for the Anakin battle with the Mandalorian secret base in my Ep2 outline.  I'll try to post it tonight.

Sigh...it appears everyone's interest has waned.

I think the clone idea I posted above is starting to click for me.  I already wrote up how I thought it would help my little Ep1 story.  I think I finally have a handle on the concept with one setence I've heard MANY people say throughout my life:  Whenever someone watches a child do something really well they respond something like, "Wow, he takes after his (insert relative)."  If talents, whether they are athletic, artistic, or force controling, can be handed from one generation to the next,  that means they CAN be genetic, right?  From father to son or from donor to clone.  I'm not talking about a whiteblood cell count or midichlorian count, but just something buried deep within that genetic code that helps them have an aptitude for a given talent. Granted, I don't buy the idea of the donor and the clone having similar personalities.  There we start getting into a nature vs nurture debate, and that's not the point of having this in the story.  This is not to create one of those silly, "OH MY which one do I shoot? Which is the real Obiwan?"  Its mostly for the story reasons I stated above. To show that a Jedi clone cannot function.

BUT this can also helps with the fear and paranoia angle I was going for in EP2.  It gives us another reason for the populus to turn of the Jedi.  Remember, the Jedi I was trying to establish are DEFENDERS and not SOLDIERS.  They take a rather passive role throughout the Clone Wars.  Now realize, these Jedi can sense clones (regular folks can't) and they are safe from being replaced (regular folks aren't), but they don't use this to take the fight to the enemy.  Can you see, how their passive stance could almost be seen as disloyal?  Can you see this scene in EP3?  The Emperor dismisses the Jedi.  Their limited services are no longer required as the Sith knights kneel before the emperor to offer their services.  Even at this point, the people of the republic and the audience should agree with the emperor.  He wants knights that will take the fight to the enemy not just defend the republic. Active involvement not passive.

sorry...my 3year old just broke out!

I reeeeeally think making Oniwan from the OT a clone would be a BIG mistake.  I was having a hard time wrapping my head around having ANY cloned Jedi, even crazy ones.  Doing that to a major character.... I think my head would explode.

ewwwwWWWWW!!!!

Yup, that's pretty much my point, there.  To some degree, it can help the story, but I still can't wrap my head around the CONCEPT.   And I dont think I can accept the one without the other.

Well Chainsaw, keep the faith.

I've been tossing around this "crazy jedi clone" idea and I have to admit I'm REALLY conflicted on this.  The reason is, I think my Ep1 story could really use it, BUT I'm not sure I BUY the concept.

Here's how the idea works:
When Obiwan, Anakin, and Bail escape from capture, a clone trooper "tags" Obiwan, getting a copy of his genetic code (but dont say that's what it is).  Then we can show this specific trooper reporting to the Mandalorian leader on Alderaan.  He was unable to bring the heir (a failure for which he is about to be executed), BUT he delivers "something else valuable" (which saves his life).  This benefits our story, because now we get to see this Mandalorian leader and loathe him a bit, instead of just in the final act.  We should also see the development of "something".  Leave the audience wondering what it is.  In Act3 when Bail and Obiwan confront the Mandalorian leader, it is revealed that his bodyguard is actually Obiwan's clone.  The best thing this does for the story is that it gives us the possibility for a lightsaber battle in Ep1. Woohoo! Obiwan being a good jedi (defensive fight) and the clone being the bad jedi (attacking).  Obiwan will talk with the clone.  The more the clone tries to feel the force, the more "off" he feels.  He is an artificially created life form and a power created by all living things doesn't react well with him.  In the end, The clone will not understand what to do with these sensations and will kill himself with his own sabre.  This idea will also show the Mandalorians that cloning Jedi just won't work.

Here's my problem:
If you cloned Mozart, would the clone be a great musician?

Everyone seemed to hate the idea of controlling the force being biological. But if a clone can inherit that ability, doesn't that MAKE it biological?  I feel that controling the force should be like any other talent.  It comes easy to some, but other can achieve it with hard work.  Do you think a clone would inherit TALENTS as well?

I told you I spend alot of time shooting down my own ideas.  I think that something LIKE this can really help my Ep1 synopsis. I could just use some help working out the logic here.

Sigh... Say it aint so Chainsaw.

I know how this whole thing can seem like a waste of time when people get hung up on semantics.  That's how I was feeling during the great pirate debate.  I know we can PRETEND their were only three Star Wars movies, but I KNOW there COULD have been six if Lucas hadn't lost his way.

Why try?

To prove it CAN be done!

(that and I feel I'd lose the one person who understood where I was coming from)

hmmm... can't say I'm a fan of cloning Jedi.  I don't really see the Jedi as anything physically SPECIAL.  Just people who answer the call and commit to the force.  Otherwise we are headed down the midichlorian path. And that path leads to madness.

But I guess the bigger question is who would be doing this?

If its the enemy I guess I can understand it, like a mystical powers arm race.

If you mean the republic, I don't see Palpatine going for it.  Remember he wanted to wipe out all the Jedi and would have killed jedi babies because their power could be a threat.  Even if he created them to be under his control, I believe (again with the babies) he would be too paranoid that they would try to overthrow him.