WheresBlackhawk

That’s kinda funny…
It’s the exact opposite of what I always wanted to see…

When Disney first said they were going to do a musical Tarzan,
I thought it would be terrible because Tarzan singing while swinging seemed really stupid to me.
I loved the Phil Collins songs and their narrative usage.

I always hoped someone could ADD two songs to EXPAND the movie:

1- add this clip from Tarzan 2 between the elephant stampede and Tarzan’s conversation with Kala at the waterside:
https://youtu.be/VoJ7rV3WQD8

2- Add this song (from the musical) when Kala takes Tarzan to the treehouse. Would need to create a montage of the movie this point to help Tarzan make the decision to go with his people. The video you posted actually said he was HAPPY there was NOT a song here, but I really like it.
https://youtu.be/fI37vCIdVx0

Wow… that animated thread I was talking about still exists WAAAAAAAY in the back of this section of the forum.
Maybe you could find some good ideas there (I thought we had a few):
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/STAR-WARS-Movies-Animated/id/10088/page/1

jollyreaper said:

So I think it goes without saying that the prequels fell short of what people were anticipating.

What was your favorite concept for how the prequels should have unfolded?

1. What were the Clone Wars actually?
2. How did the Republic fall and the Empire form?
3. What was Palpatine’s actual backstory? (He was a puppet in ANH, ultimately becoming a Sith Lord in ROTJ)
4. What were the Jedi really like?

I was looking at your post and it brought me back to a thread from almost 10 years ago. There was a thread for an animated PT on the forum. Collectively, we worked out what specific info we learned about the PT era from the OT. Anything else we could create from scratch.

For myself, I think that the cobbled together nature of the original trilogy works for 4-6 but creates plot complications. They are easy to overlook when they’re just backstory but become hard to reconcile when actually dramatizing them. There’s two kinds of problems, the canon established in the OT and the unforced errors Lucas introduced. A canon problem is how it doesn’t make any sense to hide Anakin Skywalker’s son with his uncle under his given name.

Actually, this does NOT have to be a problem. Luke is only “LUKE” the entire time they are on Tatooine. That gives you a lot of leeway into how you want to tell your story. For all we know, he could have had the name Luke Lars (heck, they could be hiding out on Tatooine - the farthest planet from the bright center of the galaxy - under an assumed name to avoid persecution for being related to a Jedi). He only takes back his father’s name after his aunt and uncle were killed and he decides he wants to “learn the ways of The Force and become a Jedi like my father.” THEN he uses his father’s name for the first time and introduces himself to Leia as LUKE SKYWALKER! It all depends on how you tell the story of ep3.

An unforced error is introducing Anakin as a child when it was clearly stated that when they met he was already the greatest pilot in the galaxy. Another unforced error is deciding that Kenobi’s desert attire, similar to what others were wearing on Tatooie, now represents Jedi robes. This would be akin to the Nazis winning WWII and the last rabbi is in hiding but still dressed like an ultra-orthodox on his way to temple.

This always bothered me as well. I think Jedi should have a simple UNIFORM, like a warrior monk idea, but it should be very distinctive. At the height of the power, Jedi should be recognized immediately and shown respect for their role in defending The Republic.

I think the basic structure of the prequels should have been like this:
Episode 1 – thematically like ANH. Introduced to a 20-something Anakin who is a spitting image of young Luke. A triumphant adventure, bonding with Obi-Wan, feels like there’s great things in store for these two. Would be set during the last Clone War.

Episode 2 – The tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. The wars have ended and the Republic is busy losing the peace. He’s married the love of his life in the period between the first and second films. He’s becoming disenchanted with the obvious flaws of the Republic and he’s not wrong, those are serious flaws. He meets Palpatine, a sector governor during the last war who has now entered the Senate. The movie follows his disaffection from the Jedi, from Obi-Wan and his conversion to Palpatine’s point of view. Palpatine is not cackling crazy evil here, he’s presenting a very cynical and Machiavellian take on democracy and self-rule and the Republic’s rulers do little to provide a good counter argument. Palpatine becomes the leader of a populist reform movement with obvious fascist echoes and the Jedi eventually are moved to enter domestic politics and oppose it. The movie ends with the famous duel and Anakin is left for dead and he clearly must be, look at those injuries.

Episode 3 – Jedi Holocaust. You have the Jedi resistance treated as a Reichstag Fire moment and Palpatine is given emergency powers. It’s pretty much like a horror movie as the Jedi try to escape the borders of the Republic as they are hunted down. Pretty much every Jedi we meet in this film dies. Vader is introduced but is treated as a mystery. Who is this guy? He comes out of nowhere, he’s radiating the Dark Side like a reactor in meltdown and he’s slaughtering anyone who stands in his way. This mystery is hinted at when Obi-Wan survives an encounter and appears shaken, like he recognized him but it’s not confirmed because the mystery should be preserved for anyone watching the whole series in chronological order for the first time. The film would end with Palpatine being declared Emperor and the Republic becoming an Empire.

I always felt that the trick to making an awesome PT is to give the audience what they think they want: Things like badass Jedi and then flip the tables on them when they realize they’ve been cheering for and supporting the WRONG SIDE. The PT should end with the GALAXY cheering the rise of The Empire, but our hero (Obiwan) and the audience realizing how now things are worse. For Example, in the movie Swing Kids, as the Nazis invade neighboring territories, the German people are listening to the radio with pride, but you can see in the face of the boy in the back, that he KNOWS what they are doing is wrong…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRMTr6SniY8&feature=related

Are you writing this series as if were originally a book series?
If so, then having the main characters pushed off to a framing device
for the PT would have been really annoying to the readers.

So, how about making the PT a little like the Godfather II?

Before the Dark Times - What if you create an arc for Luke including the completing of his training (as Anakin begins his),
Yoda’s verifying Vader, and Obi-wan trying to get Luke to understand his “point of view”
(which the readers wouldn’t get yet since Anakin is still good and innocent)?
Maybe there is a climax to this arc that makes Yoda and Obi-wan unable to contact Luke anymore
(until the series ends in RotJ).
You could end this story with Luke going to Tatooine for the meeting with Lando and Chewie,
but stopping first at Obi-wan’s home to read his journal and learn the next part of the story.

A Menace Revealed - How about borrowing from the Shadows of the Empire comic that follows Boba Fett
as he delivers Han to Jabba? Since Attack of the Clones reveals the beginning of the Clones,
showing Boba Fett taking on other bouny hunters to claim his prize could be interesting.

Shroud of the Dark Side - This one is the hardest. Need to find a complimentary story with Luke Leia and Chewy
that builds to RotJ but also works in conjunction with RotS.

This way there is a forward momentum through all six books even as you reveal the past.

And it gives you a chance to use your creativity to add your own story elements to the saga!

Just an idea.

Not sure how Anakin’s background would be handled. Perhaps he was ashamed to have been brought up on a farm and even claimed to be an orphan, while changing his surname from Lars to Skywalker? Also I have no idea if why and how Obi-Wan changes his name to Ben. That could very well happen off-screen, between the trilogies, I think.

About the names: Simply, Beru Skywalker married Owen Lars. Or is that TOO simple? ( I would give Owen and Beru a bigger part at the opening of the saga) For Jedi, it was recognized as a ancient religious order, so how about Obi-wan being his chosen name when becomes a knight (Like Roman Catholic nuns). When the Jedi fall, he goes back to his given name, Ben. It makes Leia’s message in IV more interesting: She calls him “General Kenobi” and “Obiwan- Kenobi” separately. Almost like “General” and “Obi-wan” shouldn’t be said in the same sentence. Also, you can start the story with Kane Skywalker (from early Lucas drafts) who becomes Anakin when he becomes a Jedi.

Also, the Republic has a professional army (pre-stormtroopers of sorts). The purpose of the Republic is very much aligned with the principles of the Jedi, as it is a loose federation of planetary systems that work together towards common goals. Only after the war erupts does the Republic begin its transformation into a different body, with a tighter grip. Only at this point the idea of separatism slowly begins to sound the same as treason.

What if different worlds originally have their own militaries, but as the Clone Wars progress, paranoia and distrust between Republic worlds leads to a centralization of the armed forces into the Republic Army… then the Empire? If the Clones are the Antagonists, the enemy could be right next to you and you wouldn’t know it. This could explain why Alderaan would have no weapons of their own in IV.

Hey Chainsaw! It’s been ages!
Nice to see you back!

Since Jaba is a big slug anyway… what about changing Tatooine into a marshland? Since Dagobah is already a swamp, you don’t want to go THAT far, but it would probably be easier to turn the desert-scape into a marsh than anything else.

“If Anakin is from Tatooine then wouldn’t that be the first place he’d look for Luke?”

I was thinking about this recently… the OT is pretty vague about Luke’s relationship with his Aunt and Uncle, so it can be resolved without necessarily contradicting anything official. Who are they actually related to in your rewrite? Are they important characters or just in the background? If you remember, no one ever calls him SKYWALKER until he introduces himself to Leia on the DEATHSTAR. What if he was always told he didn’t need to know about his father… He was a Lars now (sounds like something Owen would say)? What if… that moment Luke says “There is NOTHING for me here now. I want to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father,” is the moment when Luke decides he will NOW go by his father’s name? Just an idea.

Wow....I guess I'm the only other person interested in this.

What a great show that was cut down before its time.

By the way, your video came off as simple, but i'd watch the whole episode that way. Good juob!

^That sounds cool.

Do you have any samples posted?

I'd like to see/hear how they turned out.

It's a Stallone flick.

You can hear soundtrack clips on amazon.

How about other Barry scores with a Bond-ish feel to create some character themes... like The Specialist? 

Does anyone even remember that movie anyway?
(I only remember that it was bad, but the music SOUNDED like a Bond flick)

Greetings.

Just to chime in on the Tatooine thing...

I was never a fan of Tatooine being in the PT.  It all depends on what lines in Star Wars you want to give your attention to. 

You are focusing on Ben's line about Anakin "should have stayed here," and taking it literally.  What if it's figurative or he was actually quoting Owen?  "Here" meaning WITH his family not necessarily a defined place.  Otherwise, think of Ben's line in ROTJ: "To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born."  With your father's name?  On his home planet? To paraphrase Comicboook Guy from the Simpsons: WORST HIDING PLACE EVER!

Getting rid of Tatooine gives you two opportunities:

1. To not retread old ground.  According to Luke, If there is a bright center to the galaxy, Tatooine is the planet that is the farthest from it, yet it is in FIVE of the six movies.

2. To create more variety of environments.  I always like that the OT had such a great variety of settings: ANH- dessert and high-tech station.  ESB- snow, jungle and cloud city.  ROTJ- dessert and lush forest.  What new setting can be introduced in NPT?

Its a great big galaxy. Where else can we tell your story?

How about if you take the comic one step further...

Back in that ancient thread about animating the NPT, I always figured that would be near impossible.

I always thought it would be cool to make storyboard for the NPT, so basically a comic with soundtrack and sound fx.

What do you think?

Any progress?

I was thinking of giving the show a title like Marvel Universe Countdown.

The counter (with days:hours:minutes:sec) would help to showcase the passing of time between episodes or even events within an episode. I was also hoping (figuring) that CA will have a post credit bit that says something about it being time for the Avengers to Assemble.  That would be when the counter hits zero.  We'll have to wait until July to see if THAT works tho.

If you get a chance, check out the first season of 24 just to see the editing style.  It would work because events are "happening in real time" so they overlap and you can see moments of differnt things on the screen at the same time.

The only thing that came to mind so far was starting with the cut TIH opening some kind of opening title card and then starting with the Tony award in Vegas from IM.

What do you think?

How about going all out and trying to make a cable TV-style series?

This thread made me think of the Marvel 24 fanedit that went around a couple of years ago that connected FF2, Spiderman3, X3, and hulk in the style of the tv show 24.

After Captain America comes out, we'll have at least 10hours of Marvel Comics movies. It could be possible to make a 13 episode TV series as a countdown to the Avengers.  It could even use a 24 style clock, but a COUNTDOWN CLOCK instead. 

The real challenge would be making sure there would be some climax in each episode. Like an A plot from one film and maybe some contrasting story from another film as a B plot. 

Some of the deleted scenes from TIH can probably be sprinkled throughout IM. Of course, things will get pretty thick when IM2, Thor, and TIH are all happening at the same time. 

I'm not sure how to introduce Asgard, because it would be nice to show Odin's story to young Thor and Loki BEFORE we get to the New Mexico reference in IM2.

POSSIBLE THOR SPOILER!!!

Depending on how CA turns out, it may be possible to flash back to CA from the super-soldier serum in TIH and the cosmic cube in thor.

END POSSIBLE SPOILER!

So what do you think?

Possible?  or just WAY too much trouble?

Hey Chainsaw! Nice to see you back in an NPT thread.

I missed your imput when I was trying to put my ideas in order.

I, of course, like the idea of no Yoda on screen and the end of "Anakin" by the end of Ep II.

I'm not sure I understand your use of Vader tho.

Why does Anakin take Vader's place?

Is he just ALWAYS controled by the emperor?

The darkside is not his choice?

If it is...why?

Why would he take up Vader's crusade to wipe out the Jedi?

I know keeping the Vader secret takes a careful slight of hand, but this doesn't seem to play fair with the audience.  Especially when it can't be explain in your story without blowing the secret and it's not explained in the OT.

You should DEF start your own thread.

I'd like to brainstorm with ya again.

Or it can add to the mystery.

If the the NEW empire decimates the Mandaloreans in EP3, the emporer can take over the clones and tech for stormtroopers.  In a sense, disbanding the Mandalorean military and outlawing any ties to it (uniforms, etc).

Therefore, in ESB, you have this bounty hunter dressed in a forbidden uniform, yet being called on by the empire to capture our heroes.

That's kind of intriguing...no?

It all depends on how you develop the Sith idea.

When I was working on my NPT, the Sith were a proactive offshoot of the Jedi, who wore dark cloaks and masks to hide their identities from their brothers.

If you want the whole "force religion" to be concidered ancient by the OT, you can use the NPT to discredit the Jedi.  Remember: the Jedi ONLY use the force for knowledge and defense.  During the Clone Wars they would help with strategy, but I don't think they would lead assaults.  This could lead to the general populace feeling the Jedi might be disloyal.  They shouldn't be creeps like in the PT, but the other characters and the audience may see their traditions, beliefs and actions as ineffectual considering the darker times.

In my NPT EPI, Anakin inadvertantly inspires the creation of the Sith Order.  This was revealed in my EPII, which was a mystery of who these dark clad warriors were.  By EPIII, Palpatine is made Emperor and tells the Jedi that their assistance, lacking as it is, is no longer required.  The Sith are greeted in the Senate chamber with cheers because they are willing to do what is necessary to end the Clone Wars.

My goal was to have the audience agree with the people of the republic and the sith up to EPIII where they would feel... oops, this has gone too far.

Hey Guitarfan01.  Thanks for the compliment.

Sadly my EP3 "treatment" never really got beyond a vague outline of plot points that needed to be covered.  I was having structure issues with EP2.  Then the creative climate here shifted to Dread-pirate Roberts and Awesome Warrior Jedis.  Once ChainsawAsh departed, I kinda lost interest as well.

Whether its considered good or bad news, coming across my NPT files last week kinda got me excited about the possibilities again.  A friend of mine loaned me the PT soundtracks.  Its amazing how a little John Williams can inspire some scene work. I've filled in details and about doubled the size of the EP1 treatment (I think it would have made a pretty awesome film). I think I've figured out how to fix the structure of EP2. My goal with EP2 is to make it end like a victory for the republic, but the losses should be devastating for our beloved characters.  It is now starting to lay groundwork for EP3 pretty nicely. I'm trying to set myself a deadline. I want to get all my ideas for the NPT down by August 1st.  Keep your fingers crossed.

Here are my new questions for the week:

How should Jedi combat work?
I think this needs to be reinvented.  As anyone who has read this thread knows, I HATE the idea of bada$$ Jedi.  To me that goes against EVERYTHING from the OT (Ugh, Samuel L. Jackson? Obiwan swinging his sword like Conan?). So, if the force should only be used for knowledge and defense, then how DOES one succeed in battle?  I really don't even like the "force push." If I walk up to you and "push" you across the room, to me, that speaks to "aggression," one of those naughty words Yoda spoke of.  So we need to come up with something new, like the Jedi equivalent of judo.  Jedi Judo? I'm so sorry, but PLEASE bear with me.  How can the force weilder use the aggression, anger, and attack of the enemy to their advantage? That's what I'm looking for. Any ideas would be appreciated.

next...
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can POSSIBLY imagine."  How does Ben know this? How does he become "more powerful" in EP5and6?  Is it because he is now PART of the force?  Wouldn't it be cool, if the reason he defeats Vader in EP3 is because of a moment of pure power fed by the Jedi Vader himself helped destroy? Maybe the force was "strong" in Luke during the Death Star battle because Ben was WITH him at that moment. Of course this raises the question, why did Ben abandon Luke when he confronted Vader in Bespin.  Why did Luke HAVE TO do it alone?

Again any ideas to help connect the dots would be great.

Remember: if we want to make something cool for the NPT, it must not only fill in the blanks and the past of the OT, but it must also make us look at the OT in a new light.  THEN i think it would be a successful story.

Thanks for your kind attention.

Greetings Folks.

I was cleaning up some HD space on the desktop and came across the outlines I had worked up (many pages back) with ChainsawAsh and other folks here. Some of it I still liked and some of it raised some more questions, so I thought I would ask them here in my typical freeform ramble(if any of the older posters still drop by).

Where does the name "Ben" Kenobi come from?

He tells Luke that he hadn't gone by the name "Obiwan" since before Luke was born.  Obviously, this never happened in the PT, but for the NPT why the name change?  If it's because he is a Jedi in hiding,  then he must go away BEFORE the twins are born. So would he have to leave the story early? (which didn't work for my story since he is the main charcter in my NPT). 

Why else would he change his name?  In honor of a character named Ben who dies during the NPT?  I think that could work.

OR ...

Maybe Ben is his real name and Obiwan is the name he takes when he becomes a Jedi Knight. If the Jedi are almost a kind of religious order (remember how that Imperial Officer on the Death Star in IV refered to the Force as an ancient religion), there are many of those across our world where the person takes on a new name at ordination.  In my outline, Kenobi leaves the Jedi either at the end of 2 or the beginning of 3, so at that time he would also go back to being BEN.

SO...

What does this mean for Anakin?

Was he born Anakin and his Jedi name is Vader? It works and can make Ben's "certain point of view" argument more symbolic in meaning.  After all, Kenobi DID call him "a young jedi named Darth Vader." I'm not a fan, of course because this blows the Empire reveal. 

So how about Anakin having a different name for all of EP1 (like... Kane. Lucas' original name for Anakin's father) until the end when he officially begins his "first step into a larger world" and in a ceremony becomes the first tier Jedi  Knight Anankin.  I kinda like the idea, it does mean when he falls to the darkside and is no longer a Jedi, he would "cease being Anakin Skywalker." BUT I'm not sure about calling him Kane for an entire Episode.

What do ya think?

Yup!

Yeah, Bing, that was my outline.

I thought it would be cool introduce Anakin in a non- hotshot position.

AND...

He wasn't even a pilot.

He was a navigator.