Wazzles

Knightmessenger said:

Wazzles said:

Knightmessenger said:

none said:

skyjedi2005 wrote:

I think there was a work in progress cgi x-wing on the John Knoll books cdrom meant for when they started discussion early in the nineties the special edition.

I think it was called 365 days or something, just a lol quality animated computer model i think.  Not sure if its the same as the one none suggested but probably it is.

Not what I was suggesting good remembering.  Have the book, will dig it out.

3 pages here’s the text:

pg.115

The Empire Strikes Back Special Edition

I had just finished the final “final” on The Empire Strikes Back Special Edition.  It was a Friday (in January 1997) and I was at ILM’s wrap party for A New Hope Special Edition.  There were tents in the courtyard, everyone was having a good time, and I ran into George, who said - and this was exactly six days before we were supposed to ship the last CG film out for Empire - “I have one more shot I want to do for Empire.  But we can talk abut it Monday.”

And I said, “No, no - we have to talk about this now!  What is it?”

“After Han’s Falcon is parked on the Star Destroyer,” he said, “it’s not clear that Boba Fett is in the junk, and that’s he’s following Han.  I think we need one more shot in there to explain what’s going on.”

So that night I went home and got out my Art of The Empire Strikes Back book and used it as reference for a really quick CG model of Boba Fett’s ship, Slave 1.  I paired that with an already constructed CG Millennium Falcon model.

Over the weekend I cobbled together an animatic (a three-dimensional digital storyboard) of Slave 1 clandestinely following the Falcon, and showed it to George on Monday (top right, a wire-frame of BG1 - the “Boba Fett one” shot).  He had a couple of comments on the timing, so we started a revision.  Meanwhile, Rod Woodall had been working, as a prersonal projct, on building a detailed CG model of Slave 1, so I got him to ive me a copy with the textures.  The rest of that Monday we worked on the shot revision, also completing the CG version of Slave 1.  On Tuesday morning, I showed George the revision of the animatic, and he approved it.  The afternoon was spent lighting the shot, and by the end of the evening I was pretty much satisfied.  I spent Wednesday continuing to light and render elements.  Thursday, I put the comp together, and filmed it Thursday night.  We screened the completed version Friday morning , and George gave it the final thumbs-up (bottom right, final frame).  If anything had gone wrong during that weekmk we wouldn’t missed the deadline.  (Other sequences were also enhanced in The Empire Strikes Back Special  Edition.  Opposite, Howie Weed in the wampa suit.)

doubleofive wrote: I have scans of all of those magazines

If someone’s got the Cinefex 69, would love to read them.

Interesting that that added shot of Boba Fett following the falcon was the last addition made to the 97 version. Typical of Lucas to think we need to be shown everything as if we can’t figure it out Boba followed the falcon in the original version. But it’s not a terrible alteration, it just makes the surprise by Lando slightly less shocking.
But the stock footage of Jedi added is worse.

I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask but why was there all this talk of Lowry restoring the films in 2004? It’s like people forgot there was a restoration done in 1997, why did the films need to be restored again 7 years later?

It was a different type of restoration. The 97 was a standard photo-chemical restoration, which can only do so much. Lowry’s was digital, and they were able to extensively clean the films and remove any hint of damage- damage that couldn’t be removed for the 97.

It still looked pretty darn good already (see Empire of Dreams) and didn’t need to have the colors f’d up. I don’t remember seeing any damage or flaws with the 97 film print. But maybe that’s just because I don’t have a better version of the 97 than widescreen vhs.

That master is definitely a little dirty. Look at some of the cockpit shots during the Death Star battle. I’m not sure if it’s visible on the VHS, but on the Laserdisc there is a good little bit of dirt there.

Knightmessenger said:

none said:

skyjedi2005 wrote:

I think there was a work in progress cgi x-wing on the John Knoll books cdrom meant for when they started discussion early in the nineties the special edition.

I think it was called 365 days or something, just a lol quality animated computer model i think.  Not sure if its the same as the one none suggested but probably it is.

Not what I was suggesting good remembering.  Have the book, will dig it out.

3 pages here’s the text:

pg.115

The Empire Strikes Back Special Edition

I had just finished the final “final” on The Empire Strikes Back Special Edition.  It was a Friday (in January 1997) and I was at ILM’s wrap party for A New Hope Special Edition.  There were tents in the courtyard, everyone was having a good time, and I ran into George, who said - and this was exactly six days before we were supposed to ship the last CG film out for Empire - “I have one more shot I want to do for Empire.  But we can talk abut it Monday.”

And I said, “No, no - we have to talk about this now!  What is it?”

“After Han’s Falcon is parked on the Star Destroyer,” he said, “it’s not clear that Boba Fett is in the junk, and that’s he’s following Han.  I think we need one more shot in there to explain what’s going on.”

So that night I went home and got out my Art of The Empire Strikes Back book and used it as reference for a really quick CG model of Boba Fett’s ship, Slave 1.  I paired that with an already constructed CG Millennium Falcon model.

Over the weekend I cobbled together an animatic (a three-dimensional digital storyboard) of Slave 1 clandestinely following the Falcon, and showed it to George on Monday (top right, a wire-frame of BG1 - the “Boba Fett one” shot).  He had a couple of comments on the timing, so we started a revision.  Meanwhile, Rod Woodall had been working, as a prersonal projct, on building a detailed CG model of Slave 1, so I got him to ive me a copy with the textures.  The rest of that Monday we worked on the shot revision, also completing the CG version of Slave 1.  On Tuesday morning, I showed George the revision of the animatic, and he approved it.  The afternoon was spent lighting the shot, and by the end of the evening I was pretty much satisfied.  I spent Wednesday continuing to light and render elements.  Thursday, I put the comp together, and filmed it Thursday night.  We screened the completed version Friday morning , and George gave it the final thumbs-up (bottom right, final frame).  If anything had gone wrong during that weekmk we wouldn’t missed the deadline.  (Other sequences were also enhanced in The Empire Strikes Back Special  Edition.  Opposite, Howie Weed in the wampa suit.)

doubleofive wrote: I have scans of all of those magazines

If someone’s got the Cinefex 69, would love to read them.

Interesting that that added shot of Boba Fett following the falcon was the last addition made to the 97 version. Typical of Lucas to think we need to be shown everything as if we can’t figure it out Boba followed the falcon in the original version. But it’s not a terrible alteration, it just makes the surprise by Lando slightly less shocking.
But the stock footage of Jedi added is worse.

I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask but why was there all this talk of Lowry restoring the films in 2004? It’s like people forgot there was a restoration done in 1997, why did the films need to be restored again 7 years later?

It was a different type of restoration. The 97 was a standard photo-chemical restoration, which can only do so much. Lowry’s was digital, and they were able to extensively clean the films and remove any hint of damage- damage that couldn’t be removed for the 97.

NeverarGreat said:

Wazzles said:

towne32 said:

Yeah, a couple shots in Jedi are still screwy as well. And the colors in the ANH duel are really inconsistent still.

That duel is at least watchable in the 2011 version.

You may change your mind if you were to go through it shot by shot. In a few shots, Ben’s saber is actually purple.
My preference, at least for ANH, is 1997 over 2011 because of the colors, though many of the scenes are still too green even in the 97 version. At least most of the gradients exist in the 97 edition, something I assure you isn’t the case for much of reel 6 in the 2011 version.

I meant compared to the 2004. If we’re bringing the 97 in, then there’s absolutely no contest as the 97 is hands-down better.

DrDre said:

Wazzles said:

DrDre said:

Wazzles said:

DrDre said:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:

There’s an awful lot of artifacting in this one. Is there some way top avoid that?

Artifacting in what sense? Both the 35mm and the WOWOW are pretty noisy for this frame, and there’s a lot of color noise too. The foreground noise has been increased somewhat, while the background noise has decreased. I could use the bluray for this shot, which has much less noise, but also somewhat less detail.

WOWOW matched to 35mm:

Bluray matched to 35mm:

It doesn’t look like grain to me, It looks pixelated. It doesn’t quite look like compression artifacts to me, but it also doesn’t look right.

It can be improved somewhat:

Some of it is grain, but there are also compression artifacts in the WOWOW, as it is more compressed than the bluray (for example the sky in the original WOWOW frame). Some of these are made less visible in the regrade, while others are made more visible. I think this regraded frame looks pretty descent, considering the increase in brightness. For example, the sky looks much better for the regrade. The only alternative is to use the bluray, but I’m not too keen on mixing WOWOW frames with bluray frames, as the difference between the two is quite jarring, so you either go all wow or all blu.

Yeah, I don’t blame you. I think it is the compression artifacts I’m seeing.

MathUser said:

Neither of us knows the standards of beauty of that species, so who can say if it’s attractive or not. Since it’s in showbuisiness there’s a good chance it’s good looking.

I like this quote.

DrDre said:

Wazzles said:

DrDre said:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:

There’s an awful lot of artifacting in this one. Is there some way top avoid that?

Artifacting in what sense? Both the 35mm and the WOWOW are pretty noisy for this frame, and there’s a lot of color noise too. The foreground noise has been increased somewhat, while the background noise has decreased. I could use the bluray for this shot, which has much less noise, but also somewhat less detail.

WOWOW matched to 35mm:

Bluray matched to 35mm:

It doesn’t look like grain to me, It looks pixelated. It doesn’t quite look like compression artifacts to me, but it also doesn’t look right.

DrDre said:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:

There’s an awful lot of artifacting in this one. Is there some way top avoid that?

towne32 said:

Wazzles said:

Knightmessenger said:

Did the blu-ray actually try to fix the colors from 2004? Besides the minor lightsaber fixes, did they try to make Hoth less blue or colors not quite as oversaturated?

Yes. Only the Hoth blue, though.

I wasn’t aware that they’d changed that between 04 and 11. But yeah, the films in general have the exact same color timing as in 2004.

I haven’t actually bothered to check, this is just what I’ve heard.

Knightmessenger said:

Did the blu-ray actually try to fix the colors from 2004? Besides the minor lightsaber fixes, did they try to make Hoth less blue or colors not quite as oversaturated?

Yes. Only the Hoth blue, though.

CatBus said:

Wazzles said:

CatBus said:

I know this is probably a long shot, but any chance of pulling the snake reflection, rolling rock bar out of the LPP scan? i.e. to replace onscreen content that’s simply not present in the HDTV version?

I don’t think he wants to get into any roto or clean up, so he’s just using the WOWOW and BD.

I figured that was likely the case, but I was tempted to ask because it would be so great.

I agree 😃

CatBus said:

I know this is probably a long shot, but any chance of pulling the snake reflection, rolling rock bar out of the LPP scan? i.e. to replace onscreen content that’s simply not present in the HDTV version?

I don’t think he wants to get into any roto or clean up, so he’s just using the WOWOW and BD.

Shalashaska said:

Jetrell Fo said:

Shalashaska said:

Question for those who have the NTSC DVD.

Are there thin black bars on the left and right side of the image for you guys?

Are you watching it on a PC or a TV?

PC, VLC Player. I’m watching through a PAL ISO.

What’s the aspect ratio of your monitor?

Density said:

Wazzles said:
I hate the 04/11 emperor

I really don’t understand this. The old Emperor was just awful, it was the worst part of ESB and it stuck out like a sore thumb when viewed with the rest of the series. Literally the only possible reason I can imagine for preferring the chimpanzee-eyed old woman over Ian Fucking McDiarmid is nostalgia. That’s it. I mean seriously, ask yourself: If it was the other way around, would you still prefer the chimp Emperor? Hell no, you’d think it was among the most outrageous of all SE changes. Let’s not kid ourselves. If that was the only change George made, that would have been just fine with me.

I have two problems with the new emperor:

1. He looks nothing like he does in Jedi. Honestly, that’s not too big of a deal.
2. The dialog changes. The reason Vader was so obsessed with finding Luke is because he is his father. Him finding this out halfway through the film just makes him look like an idiot. In the original, it seems like he’s trying to convince the emperor not to kill him because of this.

For me, the 97 is by far the best SE. It’s much closer to the OUT. It also lacks the same prequel references of the later versions, despite its obvious issues (97 Jabba, Luke’s scrwam, etc). In fact, besides Luke’s scream and other little things, I almost prefer the 97 Empire. There’s just enough wrong with it that I will always prefer the 1980 version, but it’s still a great film. I hate the 04/11 emperor and Boba Fett.

none said:

Picture of ESB:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpxG4GzVYAAa-5N.jpg

Why are the lights on?

I think I lucked out and didn’t see the SEs until 2004. We had the Faces tapes and stuck with those as long as we could.

I can stomach it. They’re really just stepping stones until Team Blu gets their stuff out, anyway.

Discostu said:

Shalashaska said:

You guys think this is the best version of the film? Trying to decide between this and the TeamNegative1 transfer.

Depends on your taste. This one has overall better quality, looks like a Blu Ray but is in many places only a recreation of the original version. TN1 has less detail, looks more like film projection than Blu Ray and is 100 % original Star Wars 1977.

For the time being I’m sticking to the scans. I know that they’re fully theatrical and the overall quality is much more consistent.

towne32 said:

Yeah, a couple shots in Jedi are still screwy as well. And the colors in the ANH duel are really inconsistent still.

That duel is at least watchable in the 2011 version.

Looking great!

We can’t really go off of two noisy, low-res screenshots and judge it based on color timing.

Tack said:

bkev said:

Well, we knew the newest Reliance Media scan looked different from the Blus. Perhaps Disney accidentally sent that out?

You know, funny thing about that… I think that might have been it. I did notice that some changes weren’t enacted; for instance, in ROTJ, wasn’t the opening shot of the Rebel fleet recomposited? It sure wasn’t on this print. Matte lines everywhere! And, come to think of it, all the footage with changes was a lot less grainy than the rest…

The BD does have quite a few matte lines present in Jedi. It’s weird to hear that this might be a different master, though. Is anyone else around here going to a showing?

I think a lot of times they just think it looks better. You really only see it on releases of older films. Perhaps the thinking is that people don’t want an old-looking movie. Many of the VHS color changes were just brightness and contrast, making it more pleasant on TVs of the day.

no

yhwx said:

I still think TFA has the most beautiful lightsabers in the saga.
Way better than that crap on the BluRay.

That’s partly because they had lightsaber props with actual light. The BD sabers were basically a mistake that got through.